***** is seriously screwing me for over $1000 USD.
I would like to know if anyone has had or heard of anybody taking legal action against these guys?

Here is a short version of my story:
They charged me in advance for projected overages in bandwidth. I called them up and spoke with a girl who said she could upgrade my server to 150gigs per month (which would cover my usuage). I said yes and she reversed the charge but didn't upgrade my server. I got a bill for $500 in overages for the month as a result since the upgrade wasn't done. I called her back and she said I had to fill out a form and do an upgrade myself which wasn't done and that's why I'm being charged. (She didn't mention this on the phone and to top it off she's the supervisor).

Not only that but the price for overages was double that of what I was quoted in an e-mail. I have it in writitng.

VISA won't do a chargeback because it's an "ambiguous internet transaction that lacks prrof".

Is there a Better Business Bureau of America or something that could help me?

Originally posted by DannyITR

VISA won't do a chargeback because it's an "ambiguous internet transaction that lacks prrof".
?

That's BS. Visa is supposed to be protecting your rights. Ambiguous internet transactions are supposed to fall in favor of the card holder not the merchant. Call back and try again.

Originally posted by DannyITR
Is there a Better Business Bureau of America or something that could help me?
Yes, but all they can do is give them a bad rating, which they already have.

You want legal advice? Get a lawyer. The majority of people here will just speculate and cannot give you a legal opinion.

I agree with Dogma.

The only problem is if you sue them you will most likely have to pay more in lawyer fees than you will get back from them unless you can get the attorneys fees out of them as well.

If it was me the first thing I would do is send them a certified letter telling them they have 10 days to respond with your money or you will sue them for it. Oh, and stop using them. ;) Which that is usually the advice my attorney gives me and I find that as a general rule that works. Or will at least get them to give in enough that we can talk.

Regards,
Michael

I called them up and spoke with a girl [snip] she's the supervisor).

Well, there you have it. Are you sure you called the right number? I have serious doubts that they would be employing children as supervisors. :rolleyes:

Yeah, get a lawyer of you're serious...none of us can provide you adequate legal avice.

Regardless, I suggest reading your contract with *****, very carefully. You might see that you are totally screwed, or you might find a clause in your favor. People make mistakes, and they may be willing to be reasonable, unless they are a bunch of crooks.

Further, Visa sucks in these situations, which is why Amex is a better card -- they back you 100% in cases of billing disputes. Amex is worth the cost, in my opinion.

My bank which issued my visa has gotten money back for me.
If your bank gave it to you, then go to them.

"Not only that but the price for overages was double that of what I was quoted in an e-mail. I have it in writitng. "

This is a fraudulent charge and those is illegal and is covered under your terms of use for your Visa.
This may sound silly,but works for free. Many local TV stations will help consumers that have gotten had.
Like in Las Vegas they have"contact 13" and "8 on Your Side" for example.
Tell Visa you are going to local media for help. Laugh if you want, but it works. If your local Bank gave you that card, they will hate the word "media."

Unfortunately, if you plan to bring this to court it will be long and drawn out. I think ***** has a lot of reserve money to spend on this sort of thing and not to mention Faulkner's mom is his corporate lawyer. I'm not trying to deter you, just warning, so do your best to get that money back via chargeback before you do anything drastic. And if you have to, go to a laywer for some advice.

BTW - does anyone know why ***** is *ed out when you spell it without the hyphen? Were they spamming?

I am majoring in Pre-Law and can give you some legal advice.

You can fight this "double that of what I was quoted in an e-mail. I have it in writitng. "

As far as contracts go, and this is a contract, ***** sent you an offer, and depending on wether or not you accepted this offer, lets say you did, it is valid. A quote is an offer, you need to 'accept' this offer in order for it to be valid. It is either what I said above, or (please excuse my memory, im running on a low amount of sleep) it was an invitation to trade, which also works in your favor.

You said that she didnt mention the paperwork over the phone, were you given any notice of it via email or anything? Also, did she tell you specifically that she was going to upgrade your account? If so, you have a case there.


Wow, i just read over this and it seems pretty confusing, wow im tired.

Definatly either try Visa again, or speak with a lawyer. Honestly, I think you have a strong case.

I went thru this same thing with ***** about 3 years ago. I threatened to sue, contacted the better business bureau, and within a month I was refunded my money and given 1 year of free hosting for my troubles.

Never know, it might work for you ;)

Originally posted by GlideTech
I went thru this same thing with ***** about 3 years ago. I threatened to sue, contacted the better business bureau, and within a month I was refunded my money and given 1 year of free hosting for my troubles.

Never know, it might work for you ;)


Believe it or not, scare tactics like threatening to sue (whether you plan on it or not) may work against a place like *****. I'm sure they want to avoid court just as much as you do. $1000 is probably peanuts to them.

I filed complaints with the Houston BBB and the Texas Attorney General's office... and I forwarded copies of these complaints to ***** via Certified Mail. I had a $600-some refund within a couple of weeks.

Of course it was a PITA to fill out the darn forms. Also, don't identify yourself as a business in the forms if you can at all help it, because the BBB and Attorney General's office will tell you they only process complaints filed by individuals, not companies. If your hosting account is signed up under a business name, include a note that explains that you operate as an individual and you are filing for service you personally didn't receive.

:)

Good luck, they are a rather scary sort.

:D Bailey

You guys have been so helpful! My girlfriend just wants me to pay the money so I stop complaining about it but I really can't afford it. I'm still a student and I need the money for tuition!

When I spoke with the woman over the phone to complain, she said she had sent me e-mail upgrade forums but I never recieved anything. If I had recorded the origonal conversation I would be home free but since I didn't, I don't really have any proof of what she said except that she canceled the pre-payment for my overages. If she did this, how could she not upgrade the account at the same time? She didn't seem to understand me whne I was explainning this, so I eventually gave up. Their quality assurance manager wasn't able to help either (he telephoned me one hour after I canceled my account).

I read the contract but it doesn't say anything about prices and overages. What I have in writting is an e-mail quoting overage fees for my account. They told me it was an error but they won't honour the rates.

Can someone provide me with the contact info of the Houston BBB and the Texas Attorney General's office? You'd be seriously helping me out! This thread has already convinced me no to give up.

Do this then, tell your girlfriend that she wont get a birthday or christmas present this year.

That'll teach her ;)

Hi Danny. You'll want to read http://www.forumshosts.com/hosts.htm. The BBB office you want is the Ft. Worth office, http://www.fortworth.bbb.org/. The Texas Attorney General's website is http://www.oag.state.tx.us/.

And next time, check with the BBB *BEFORE* you sign up with a webhost. Had you investigated *****, here's what you would have found:

General Information

This firm first came to our attention August 1998. [I believe they are referring to my August 1998 complaint] According to information in Bureau files the company began business in June 1997. The firm offers Internet Provider Services.

This company is stating on their website they are members of the Better Business Bureau and participants in the BBB On-Line Reliability Program. [I informed the BBB in writing of this claim by *****] They are not members of the local Better Business Bureau and are not included in the Better Business Bureau's On-Line Reliability Program.

Customer Experience

Complaints processed by the Bureau in its three-year reporting period concern service issues, billing disputes and refund practices. Specifically, complainants allege the company did not provide promised services. Other complainants allege the company billed for services not provided and failed to make promised refunds in a timely manner.

Additional File Information

On Nov 9, 2001 the Better Business Bureau met with Mr Robert Cantrell who stated that "all complaints are to go to him or to Tami Freedman, and the complaints would be responded to promptly". Mr Cantrell stated that the cancellations must be done with a pin number. Further Mr Cantrell stated "that his customers just don't understand what they are buying."

Yes, Mr. Cantrell, shame on us, your customers, for not understanding that we can indeed be charged multiple times for one term of service... for not understanding that it's okay to charge us for things we didn't use/didn't get/didn't want... for not understanding that you have absolutely no responsibility to provide the service that we pay for and *gasp* actually want our sites to be UP.

You're right, we don't understand a thing. :eek:



LOL :D Bailey

DannyITR,

Whoever your Visa card with is just screwing you around. Did you tell them that you had proof in writing and could provide that to them?

One remedy would be to contact your attorney generals office and file a complaint. They may do something about it and then again may not.

The best method would be to get it resolved with the hosting company but if you cant go to small claims court. If you win you can collect the money.

I have serious doubts that they would be employing children as supervisors.

You'd certainly think they hire children if you spoke to their staff.

I still haven't heard from them. I gave them 10 business days to respond. I'm faxing them another notice.

I have a Visa with Wells Fargo. Was charged 600.00 for something I did not get.
Bank got it back with in 10 days.
If your CC is through a bank, deal with the bank.

I've spoken with a bank employee who happens to be my friend's mother and she said the branch won't be able to do anything sine it's VISA's problem.


I'm about to post a message on my forum telling eveyone to e-mail the people who are responsable at *****. I have 1500 members and they all willing to fill up the inboxes of these people with usless mail. I'm hoping they will eventually give in. What do you think?

Originally posted by DannyITR
I've spoken with a bank employee who happens to be my friend's mother and she said the branch won't be able to do anything sine it's VISA's problem.


I'm about to post a message on my forum telling eveyone to e-mail the people who are responsable at *****. I have 1500 members and they all willing to fill up the inboxes of these people with usless mail. I'm hoping they will eventually give in. What do you think?


Getting a lawyer to call CI**** won't do you much good.... But if you get a lawyer to call Visa on your behalf, then that might do a world of differnce... And it won't cost you nearly as much...

Mind you, this is all maybe.....

Just hire a lawyer and sue them.

They'll probably offer to settle before it goes to trial. Remember, it costs them a lot to defend lawsuits !

Originally posted by Deb Suran
Hi Danny. You'll want to read http://www.forumshosts.com/hosts.htm. The BBB office you want is the Ft. Worth office, http://www.fortworth.bbb.org/. The Texas Attorney General's website is http://www.oag.state.tx.us/.

And next time, check with the BBB *BEFORE* you sign up with a webhost. Had you investigated *****, here's what you would have found:

General Information

This firm first came to our attention August 1998. [I believe they are referring to my August 1998 complaint] According to information in Bureau files the company began business in June 1997. The firm offers Internet Provider Services.

This company is stating on their website they are members of the Better Business Bureau and participants in the BBB On-Line Reliability Program. [I informed the BBB in writing of this claim by *****] They are not members of the local Better Business Bureau and are not included in the Better Business Bureau's On-Line Reliability Program.

Customer Experience

Complaints processed by the Bureau in its three-year reporting period concern service issues, billing disputes and refund practices. Specifically, complainants allege the company did not provide promised services. Other complainants allege the company billed for services not provided and failed to make promised refunds in a timely manner.

Additional File Information

On Nov 9, 2001 the Better Business Bureau met with Mr Robert Cantrell who stated that "all complaints are to go to him or to Tami Freedman, and the complaints would be responded to promptly". Mr Cantrell stated that the cancellations must be done with a pin number. Further Mr Cantrell stated "that his customers just don't understand what they are buying."

That's a scary BBB report :eek:

BTW, I could not open the forumhost link.

Just hire a lawyer and sue them.

They'll probably offer to settle before it goes to trial. Remember, it costs them a lot to defend lawsuits !


CEO Chris Faulkner's kiester is in court rather often, from what I have gathered. And no, they probably won't offer to settle, because it doesn't cost Chris a nickel to defend lawsuits. His mother is his lawyer.

:rolleyes:

:D Bailey

Originally posted by baileysemt123


CEO Chris Faulkner's kiester is in court rather often, from what I have gathered. And no, they probably won't offer to settle, because it doesn't cost Chris a nickel to defend lawsuits. His mother is his lawyer.

:rolleyes:

:D Bailey

So what if his mother is his lawyer?

It still costs a lot! It takes a lot of time to prepare for a case and go to trial . . . think about the opportunity cost. If she's a good lawyer she could make a lot money instead of wasting her time defending a corrupt company for free.

If ***** did not get a signature for the transaction then the card issue agreement has been breached and there is no valid transaction.
Tell your card company this and you will get your money back.

However, thst still leaves you owing ***** (if there was a valid contract with them)
We take legal action against customers who use the no signature thing to get refunds after months of service so presumably so would *****.

Gordon

So what if his mother is his lawyer?

It still costs a lot! It takes a lot of time to prepare for a case and go to trial . . . think about the opportunity cost. If she's a good lawyer she could make a lot money instead of wasting her time defending a corrupt company for free.


If you do a search at WHT you'll see I am a former burned CI client as well, I got soaked for hundreds of dollars too. I'm just telling you "the way it is." I don't speak for them. This is simply how it works. She's the lawyer, and it only costs her time. She's going to represent him because he's her son. To her, maybe it's not "wasting" or a "corrupt company" or "free."

It is expensive for you and I, but it's not so expensive for them given the resources at their fingertips, unfortunately. And it's not like the 1st time they've ever been in court.

Again I don't speak in their defense and heaven knows it's not up to us to determine what is or is not costly or why they should or should not settle. Most clients have been lucky enough to get a refund with a BBB complaint and an Attorney General's office complaint. It's MUCH easier for all of us little guys to file paper complaints with those offices than to call up a lawyer on our own. I don't call this "settling" per se but maybe you and I are referring to the same kind of refund, just under different names.

:)

heck I was so upset with my time with c-i-host that I created a whole anti-c-i-host page on my website. Literally half of my own personal hosting clients came as a result of my "let me rescue you from c-i-host" resources & info. I learned a lot from my time there and I enjoy providing my clients with the kind of quality service they couldn't get there.

:D Bailey

Tape recorders...I've Nixoned my place as all incoming and outgoing calls are tape recorded.

Recently when I moved out of my apartment, I videotaped the conditions and had a hidden camera and wore a wireless mic went to turn in my keys and make sure nothing else needed to be done.

A few weeks later they sent me a bill saying that I didn't follow moveout procedures/cleaning process. I sent them a copy of the tape. Didn't hear from them again.

A bit paranoid/extreme? Nah, just sick of getting screwed around.
What I'd like is a set of those videoglasses that Howie Mandel wears on the Tonight Show with Jay Leno.

If I only had recorded the conversations with them....damn. My bulletin board has 1500 members and most of them are willing to help me flood these bastard's mailboxes with mail. That will be my next resort.

BTW, I could not open the forumhost link.
Sorry, there's a typo in the URL. It's:
http://www.forumhosts.com/hosts.htm

Are you local to them.... go kick their you know what.. that's why I pick local carrier/host now. Go to a small claim court and pay $50.00 and open the case.

If you are lucky and they have lame TOS or UA you might actually make them fly down to your town and show up in court or the other way around.

Best bet before you do anything is use CamTasia, go to their site view/read everything and such. I print-screen and also video-capture such. I do lots of eLearning stuff that I got used to using Video Capture to keep track of things and put them in folders ;).

There are times that while you are on the phone with them complaning they are actually changing TOS on the other side.

I know because I had clients that did that. Call BBB up, call the Lice# dept up and make sure you make some noise.

The only thing about small claims court is even if you do win you're not automatically awarded the money, all you get is a judgement. The hardest part of the whole process is collecting on it. I imagine that if the other party is outside the area, it becomes even more difficult.

Originally posted by JaniceH
The only thing about small claims court is even if you do win you're not automatically awarded the money, all you get is a judgement. The hardest part of the whole process is collecting on it. I imagine that if the other party is outside the area, it becomes even more difficult.

Even though you don't collect after years of no payment it accumulates interest and you end up oweing 3x as much if not to the client, than to the city/state. Or you can be a you know what you send a payment of $15/month or 5/month because that's all you can afford.

True small claims are a pain but sometimes they can be a pain on other side as well when they need to buy sell business they can't do nothing unless all dept is paid off... or buy a house or depends if they are a dba or Corp./Inc.

What I would do is go around and make sure that they loose 5x the amount they stole or took from me.

I recently went after an ahole for $10, legal costs was about $250 but since it tagged his credit report and filed a lien with the state it was worth it.

Originally posted by MilkMan
I recently went after an ahole for $10, legal costs was about $250 but since it tagged his credit report and filed a lien with the state it was worth it.

Yup.. it is worth it. It stays with him till he pays and credit as well. I also follow up every 6 months on credit reports and make sure stuff don't appear.

"YOU" also should check after 2-3 years that the stuff is still on his credit report. File up with it because now these days it's a phone call away or a letter to get rid of stuff on credit reports.