:angry:
Think it is time to call the Better Business Bureu on RackShack?
6 days ago, my server had a hardware crash.
They swapped servers, and 6 days later I am still down. My business has died. I have about 20 tickets in.
The Swapped Server has had 4 images, 1HD, 2 memory replacements. ( They charged me for the image )
I have asked Customer Service to get me off of this Lemon.
All they can do is Sell Me Another Server with a Set Up Fee.

I put a ticket in last night again, because the server was totally crashed. They changed the sataus of the ticket to a Re-Boot then closed it. I opened another one last night again, then 10 hours later, it's still open. Not worked, and my server is still down.


Better Business Bureu here I come!
I cannot beleive RackShack does not care about their customers at all!

Any Thoughts?

You're still getting more than you pay for hehe :) There's a reason its so cheap though and you've found it.

-Brendan

Well Put!
BBB might give them some insight into their operation...

Thats bad, I have a server with RackShack and they have been very good so far, I have not had any major issues only password problems etc.

If you need any space on a server or anything let me know and I will help you out.

I wish you the best of luck

So, umm... was you server crashing the whole time due to server hardware or were you also running on a heavy load? Possibly even overloading you server...

HRBrendan... your comments don't really help now do they? Depending on what really happend and why it happend he may or may not have gotten what he has paid for.

Originally posted by HRBrendan
You're still getting more than you pay for hehe :) There's a reason its so cheap though and you've found it.

-Brendan

Thats nothing My site has been down for 4 days with hostrocket last ticket has been up for 2 days They wanted to switch my site up to semi dedicated for using too much bandwith but I said ok and my site has still been down since thursday.

rackshack.net already has a horrible record with the bbb bureau, i dont know that reporting it would do much.

I've never delt with RackShack before, but I would imagine that for every disgruntled customer they have, there are 100 customers who love them. It sounds to me like klexter just had some very, very bad luck... maybe try contacting Robert Marsh directly or something?

I know how you feel about your business dying -- I had a hard disk fail a couple of days ago -- but just hang in there. Things always seem worse than they are when they're happening.

I give RackShack a thumbs up, i have been with them for about a month. And i have expirienced no down time, no server errors. Hopefully my luck holds out!

Originally posted by Avail
I've never delt with RackShack before, but I would imagine that for every disgruntled customer they have, there are 100 customers who love them. It sounds to me like klexter just had some very, very bad luck... maybe try contacting Robert Marsh directly or something?

I know how you feel about your business dying -- I had a hard disk fail a couple of days ago -- but just hang in there. Things always seem worse than they are when they're happening.

Some sound advice, :)

Originally posted by vigor
I give RackShack a thumbs up, i have been with them for about a month. And i have expirienced no down time, no server errors. Hopefully my luck holds out! Same here, but I've been with them about 8 months. Aside from the occasional reboot, haven't had a problem. Sounds like the poster did have some verrrryyyy bad luck.

They just now responded to another ticket. I have about 20 in the last few days. Looks like more hardware swaps again! This will make the 5th image since the 8th of this month.
Woe is me! I have lost all of my suscibing members, so at this point I guess it does not matter.......

***************************************************
Dear customer, I believe that your system has problem hardware and we will need your authorization to take it down for a ram and drive test. This will take several hours.
Datacenter:

System will not reboot from command line.

System is also corrupting files. When trying to untar a perl archive for compilation testing I got a crc error. The file had a different checksum: [root@ensim /tmp]# md5sum stable.tar.gz d9174bdb174747fc4a4c272034176628 stable.tar.gz

Which should be:
[0][rholec@opera:pts/11]/home/rholec% md5sum stable.tar.gz ec1ff15464809b562aecfaa2e65edba6 stable.tar.gz

After downloading again and verifying the correct checksum, compilation failed due to a syntax error due to a single changed character. Line 889 of proto.h read:

PERL_CALHCONV void Perl_sv_setuv_mg(pTHX_ SV *sv, UV u);

And was suppused to read:
PERL_CALHCONV void Perl_sv_setuv_mg(pTHX_ SV *sv, UV u);

These symptoms and the escalation history lead me to believe that this system either has bad ram or a bad drive that was carried over from the previous server swap. The system will most likely need to have a fresh image installed after the bad hardware is replaced. Please check the ram and drive and send back to webtech with findings if everything is OK.

It looks like you've got some bad luck there.

I had my server down for a week due to an ip conflict, but that's about it. :angry:

I try to help everyone I can but if you don;t email me, I cannot help.

Taking your trouble here rather that emailing Patrick, who posts his email address here and in the Rackshack forums, or emailing me as my email address was in your welcome email, makes me wonder.

If you truely want help with an issue, why not try emailing a Rackshack manager? That's what the instruction in your welcome email.

As far as the BBB, we are not members and never would be. Our number of complaints is not dissimilar to other service/communications companies our size. We do not settle every complaint in the customer's favor, but some are settled in their favor when the circumstances warrant.

Nice to see you again, Charles.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

Hey Robert,

I am not sure you are correct about the BBB. I just did a quick search:

Dialtone - Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau. The company has been responsive to any matters brought to its attention by the Bureau.
RackSpace - There are no companies matching the criteria you have entered.
Communitech - Based on BBB files, this company has a satisfactory record with the Bureau

RackShack - Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau due to unresolved complaint(s).

Closed Complaints
Number of complaints processed by the BBB since the firm's BBB file was opened in June of 1999: 141
Number of complaints processed by the BBB in last 12 months: 46


Complaints Concerned
Advertising Issues: 5
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 4; Company made every reasonable effort to
Resolve: 1

Sales Issues: 9
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 7; Unresolved: 1; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

Delivery Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Resolved: 1

Repair or Service Issues: 1
Outcome of the complaint -
Unresolved: 1

Product Quality Issues: 6
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 3; Unresolved: 2; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

Refund or Exchange Issues: 12
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 8; Unresolved: 3; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

Contract Issues: 14
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 11; Unresolved: 2; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 1

Customer Service Issues: 67
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 34; Unresolved: 12; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 21

Credit or Billing Issues: 26
Outcome of all complaints -
Resolved: 17; Unresolved: 3; Company made every
reasonable effort to Resolve: 6

Not sure if you were aware

Mike you beat me too it :)

Rackspace has, let's say, about 5000+ dedicated server clients. Dialtone, in the order of a few thousand.

Rackshack, and Everyones Internet, on the other hand, have over 250,000 end user customers.

My comparison is to comprably sized ISPs. I know of only 3 of those complaints listed that are Rackshack related. One file for both services.

Try PDQ.net, (now folded into Internet America) formerly the second largest Houston ISP. 60 complaints in 36 months with a peak of 40,000 subscribers.

Earthlink has something like 1000 complaints. Many of those are where the company did not respond.

AOL, although a Bureau member, has unresolved complaints.

The nature of the ISP business is that there are consumer complaints. We've responded to every complaint and settled many in the consumer's favor. We're not perfect, but then we never said that we were.

Theres a bit of a difference between a company that specializes in dedicated servers and managed hosting and a company who does unmanaged dedicated servers and dialup, dont you agree.

Either way theres really no way to tell what complaint is in regards to which company.

Originally posted by headsurfer
I try to help everyone I can but if you don;t email me, I cannot help.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

G'day Headsurfer,

I seriously apologize for hassling you in this forum, but I've lodged a trouble ticket and more than once emailed abuse@rackshack.net and yourself regarding SPEWS blocking of EV1/RS ip space, but to date I have received no support from RS.

Since you've advised that you try to help where you can, in desperation I thought I would take you up on your offer here and perhaps I may be able to obtain a response.

There are a number of EV1/RS ip blocks currently listed as spam friendly by SPEWS, and we are regularly having our clients' mail bounced back with messages such as...

<<<*553 5.3.0 Spam rejected from 216.12.213.* - see http://relays.osirusoft.com

A query of the SPEWS database at http://www.spews.org on ip 216.12.213.(1..128) will return the following result.

exploremeds
|--------------------
1, 216.12.213.15, exploremeds.com
1, 216.12.213.0/26, exploremeds.com (kechara.net / ev1.net)
---------------------|

and

luckybudget
|--------------------
1, 66.33.2.25, luckybudget.com
1, 62.118.192.50, luckybudget.com
1, 62.118.192.0/24, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
2, 195.34.32.0/24, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
1, 216.12.213.10, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 216.12.213.0/25, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 195.2.82.83, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com /
magnolia.happychance.com
2, 195.2.82.0 - 195.2.82.255, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com /
magnolia.happychance.com
(zenon.net)
---------------------|

As can be seen from the above, the full 216.12.213.0/25 ip block has been included in the database even though the offending ip's are actually just 216.12.213.15 and 216.12.213.10.

All we really wanted to know is whether any action is being taken by RS to correct the situation regarding spam relaying via 216.12.213.15 and 216.12.213.10

Additionally, once the spamming has been stopped, is RS in a position to communicate with SPEWS with the aim of having the above /25 ip block removed from the SPEWS database?

Under the current situation one of our servers is basically crippled. A functioning email service is obviously a major component of any commercial webhosting operation.

Thank you for your assistance.

We look forward to your reply.

Best Regards,

LBJ

Originally posted by LBJ

There are a number of EV1/RS ip blocks currently listed as spam friendly by SPEWS, and we are regularly having our clients' mail bounced back with messages such as...

<<<*553 5.3.0 Spam rejected from 216.12.213.* - see http://relays.osirusoft.com

A query of the SPEWS database at http://www.spews.org on ip 216.12.213.(1..128) will return the following result.

exploremeds
|--------------------
1, 216.12.213.15, exploremeds.com
1, 216.12.213.0/26, exploremeds.com (kechara.net / ev1.net)
---------------------|

and

luckybudget
|--------------------
1, 66.33.2.25, luckybudget.com
1, 62.118.192.50, luckybudget.com
1, 62.118.192.0/24, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
2, 195.34.32.0/24, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
1, 216.12.213.10, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 216.12.213.0/25, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 195.2.82.83, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com /
magnolia.happychance.com
2, 195.2.82.0 - 195.2.82.255, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com /
magnolia.happychance.com
(zenon.net)
---------------------|

As can be seen from the above, the full 216.12.213.0/25 ip block has been included in the database even though the offending ip's are actually just 216.12.213.15 and 216.12.213.10.

Spews listinga :
http://www.spews.org/html/S1361.html
http://www.spews.org/html/S982.html

No, this is a correct listing.
Why? Cause Rackshak.net is NOT LISTENING TO THEIR ABUSE COMPLAINTS!

They have shown that they are ignoring their compalints concerning the sites mentioned above and that by their actions, have moved these particular spammers in their netspace in order to AVOID Blocklists so their 'spamming' customers can continue about their spamming ways without being hindered. Well, SPEWS got tired of playing whack-a-mole with Rackshack (and their numerous spammers) and listed entire blocks of ip's known to be where the Spamming vermin are. The best way to get their attention is hit them where it hurts; their pocketbooks. IF innocent sites are affected by this, all the better. Maybe Rackshack will get off their lazy duffs and do something about it...or....

You're neighbors on your ip block are notorious spammers. They have gone on to spam unchecked and ignored even after numerous complaints have been sent to Rackshack. This is the kind of company YOU are giving your money to. In essence, by paying them MONEY, you are supporting their serivices to support their spamming customers.

They do absolutely nothing...


As demonstrated by you and your unanswered issues, its an ongoing and growing problem with Rackshcak, and more and more RBL lists are slowly adding many of their servers and customers to their lists because they are tired of incompetent, and lazy admins who do nothing.

Are you sure you WANT to stick with a service provider that does nothing for you, but does everything in their power to keep their spamming vermin?


All we really wanted to know is whether any action is being taken by RS to correct the situation regarding spam relaying via 216.12.213.15 and 216.12.213.10

They haven't listened to the abuse complaints sent by those who aren't on their network (those who are receiving their customers spam), and they haven't listened to you and your complaints. Would it be any surprise that they did nothing?


Additionally, once the spamming has been stopped, is RS in a position to communicate with SPEWS with the aim of having the above /25 ip block removed from the SPEWS database?

No one can contact spews. Rackshack needs to kick off all their spamming vermin before they get delisted. And that wont help them because of all the private Blacklists they are already on.

http://www.spews.org/faq.html

If Rackshack wants to get off spews in your case, YOU BETTER pressure them to get rid of your neighboring spammers.

How? Find a better host.

Under the current situation one of our servers is basically crippled. A functioning email service is obviously a major component of any commercial webhosting operation.

Hey under law, you can sue Rackshack for their inability to provide you with connectivity and any damages as a result of it. Read over your contract with them and see what you can get out of their lack of support to you and you can claim damages due to their incompetence. If you've even lost one second of any connectivity due their fault (ie not responding to abuse complaints, ignoring abuse complaints) you can reclaim damages. Suggest getting a lawyer. ITs been done. And the more people act on their hosts to get in shape, the better the net will be.

In the meantime, dont hold your breath. Hit them where it hurts and find a better host.

And judging by the response given by headsurfer in the last two threads about Rackshack, it only re=affirms many beliefs Rackshack seriously needs to look at who they are supporting. Their customers, or their spammers.

Also statement about for every 1 bad customer, they could have 1000 other happy customers, it doesn't absolve the fact that they sTILL have one unhappy customer. All it takes is one uhappy person, and it quickly turns in serveral hundred.

After waiting ALL day yesterday, sometime during the night, RS replaced yet another Hard Drive in my Lemom server. This makes 2 HD now. I wake up, access my server, and what do you think? DOWN! DOWN DOWN! I call Tech Support once again. They cannot access my server either.

Tech puts in a ticket at 7:00 am. CST. I call to ask the status at 5:00 pm CST.
"Welp, might not get to it until the nex day!"

This is a total of 7 days my business is down. Since I have lost all of my suscribers, I thought I would keep trying to get the thing running. As a matter of principal.

My problem is so simple!
I have a Lemon Server. A server that was swapped out. After 7 days of being down, all I was asking was to swap to a server that works.
Their way of running a business does not work that way! They just keep me down, refusing to swap me to a working server. I have about 20 plus tickets in. The would rather waste their Techs time ( $8.00 per hour wages ) than to get my business up and running.

I am not a young kid. In my life, there are very few companies I have delt with that have such a total dis-reguard for their clients business.

Anyway, carry on with the discussion. As for me, I will be dropping them, start my business up again, and Bulk-Email thousands of my members that RS was the reason my business went down for 7 or 10 days ( Have to wait for propagation 24 hours again) And give them all of the details. ( Word of mouth travels fast! )
Copy and Paste all of my tickets in the mass E-mail so they can see for themselves what kind of service RS offers.

Sure, they are cheap, but it is much better to spend the $$ on a company that stands behind their customers. When a server goes down, you should not have to STAY DOWN for 7 days plus..

Carry on........:bawling:

Originally posted by WizyWyg

IF innocent sites are affected by this, all the better

Hmmm, that's an interesting opinion. A glowing endorsement of the ethics and sensibility of the SPEWS crew. ;-)

However, the general lack of response from RS with respect to this matter is definitely an equally poor representation of the professionalism of the EV1/RS group.

Headsurfer, is there any way at all to procure a response from RS? Trouble tickets don't work... emails to abuse@rackshack.net don't work... emails direct to headsurfer@ev1.net don't work... postings in the RS forum don't work (just search the forum for "spam" or "spews")... and I guess posting here doesn't do too much either. :-(

Best Regards,

LBJ

Originally posted by WizyWyg
Well, SPEWS got tired of playing whack-a-mole with Rackshack (and their numerous spammers) and listed entire blocks of ip's known to be where the Spamming vermin are. IF innocent sites are affected by this, all the better.
And there you have it. Exactly why irresponsible 'organizations' such as SPEWS (such an appropriate name now that I think of it), are a joke. Hey, I bet if you block the IP range of every possible IP on the internet, no spam will come your way. What a brilliant idea.

No one can contact spews. Rackshack needs to kick off all their spamming vermin before they get delisted. And that wont help them because of all the private Blacklists they are already on.
Example #2 of why SPEWS (and other such 'black lists') are a joke. What a bunch of idiots. This 'system' couldn't be more broken if they tried to make it more broken. It is sad, really sad.

Hey I hate spammers as much as the next guy, but there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. If it doesn't affect me, then I don't give a rat's donkey what they do. When it does...

Hey under law, you can sue Rackshack for their inability to provide you with connectivity and any damages as a result of it. Read over your contract with them and see what you can get out of their lack of support to you and you can claim damages due to their incompetence. If you've even lost one second of any connectivity due their fault (ie not responding to abuse complaints, ignoring abuse complaints) you can reclaim damages. Suggest getting a lawyer. ITs been done.
Here's a thought... somebody sue SPEWS for their blocking of IP ranges that haven't spammed. Someone sue them for their incompetence (which is more than apparent). As I said, just pathetic, simply pathetic.

Should rackshack handle spam complaints? Of course. They have a TOS and they need to adhere to it just as their clients should. At the same time, those of you considering using blacklists such as SPEWS need to understand that these people are reckless in their actions and that they do block IP ranges, and that innocent sites are affected by that. Do you want to support such irresponsibility? As I said, everyone is guilty, block everything and then don't provide a means to rectify the error. That's how you provide a worthwhile service to the internet community. For pete's sake... :rolleyes:

I take swift and immediate action against spammers....

However,

I resent the bunch of rhinestone cowboys and other irresponsible vigilantes who have decided that they will take the law into their hands. As bad as spammers are, they are worse.

Do you really want people to assume authority over the internet just because they yell loudest? Do you really want people with a philosophy that it is ok to hurt thousands of innocents to get even with a few guilties? I stand with Chicken on this issue and shall continue to crow with him. I personally do not want a cure that is far worse than the disease.

Originally posted by cbaker17
rackshack.net already has a horrible record with the bbb bureau, i dont know that reporting it would do much.

Every phone call counts. :angry:

WizyWyg, I get so tired of reading your SPEWS propaganda. I tell you, if you don't work for them, you sure are a big enough idiot to be there President. Your views are the very reason SPEWS is hated by people who hate spam.

IF innocent sites are affected by this, all the better

Sums up your ignorance. Why don't you go back to your cave and save your venomous responses to those who post on the abuse news group. (Yes, I know who you are. I read the same ignorant crap their from you that I read here.)

I'm totally with Chicken on this. I find that all these RBL's and open relay blocking sites, are just causing trouble and these people should not be in this position to stop email from flowing to or from people, to/from you or your clients. It would be a lot better if people didn't use this stupid services and just implemented some more inteligent filters. However, this lameness has caught on, so more and more people are suffering unfairly. So the SPAMMER's end up having more power to do more damage, because some idiot's think that they can solve the problem -- therein making it ALL of our problem! That makes me angry. I would never use one of these services these cheap bastards run, but other people do use these RBL's and sometimes there's nothing you can do. If they just blocked the IP and domain of the SPAMMER's or where the SPAM was coming from, if the admin didn't take action, fine, but they aren't and they are going way over board. I wish people would stop using them, it's not a good solution, but people will continue to use them -- more problems, they are as bad as the SPAMMERs. What a mess.

I hope everyone is with me, when I say that I'm not going to use them, or anyone else and I'll make sure SPAM issues are handled properly and that the junk is properly filtered out and that people don't suffer. This isn't something people can implement on a large scale though, but the only way it'll work properly, is to be one more person to not use this crappy and flawed service and simply cut out your own policies and rules and create intelligent filters. It'll work better, no group or organization will cause your email to not get to people, and people won't suffer. Please don't use RBL's.

Lovely threadjacking there. :rolleyes: I didn't know this thread was about spews. I thought it was about an experience that someone had with RS. So much for keeping a thread ontopic!! :eek:

klexter, sorry to hear of your unfortunate issues with your server. I hope you kept your opt_in subscriber's email addresses so you can contact them again when you're up and running. :)

Hang in there mate. :)

We have recently had the email from one of our servers affected by a SPEWS listing for an entire /25 block based solely on the traffic of one company using one ip within the /25 block. As many sysadmins will already know, attempting to communicate logically with SPEWS is *not* a sensible solution. Given that that's the situation, we opted to attack the problem from a different angle.

When we find a network bouncing our mail because of a SPEWS listing we forward an email along the following lines to the postmaster in charge of the concerned mail server. To date we have only had two postmasters refuse to correct the situation by either whitelisting the ip individually or (and this is far more satisfying) by opting to dump the SPEWS listing due to its obvious inaccuracy.

In the case of one of the two establishments unwilling to modify their configuration, we contacted the intended recipient of the email directly and explained in detail why and how their ISP was bouncing valid non-spam email addressed to their account. The client opted to move to a more major ISP who does not use the SPEWS listing.

For anyone in control of a server in the same position as the one of our own, please feel free to borrow liberally from the following template. We've found it to be very successful.

NB. With due regard to the lunatic militancy of the SPEWS crew, we have deleted a few identifying details from the following...

---

G'day postmaster@xyz.com,

This email comes from the ********** network. If you could please read this email in its entirety, we would be extremely appreciative. We consider the subject matter to be critical to the responsible operation of the internet mail system and we would be most grateful for your assistance.

You have received this email either because a mail server under your control has recently bounced a valid non-spam email item, or you are the sender of a valid non-spam email item which has been bounced by the concerned mail server.

The ********** network is owned and controlled solely by **********, a privately owned company incorporated in the 1980’s, and trading prior to that as a registered business as ********** and **********. Amongst other more general IT services, we provide dial-up and satellite internet access, and provide professional level web hosting within ********** and **********. In all our internet based activities we hold a zero spam tolerance policy. Our mail servers are regularly checked against the http://www.abuse.net/relay.html to ensure that they pass all 17 tests as non-open relays for spam.

The particular email item in question was sent by…

abc@abc.com (111.111.111.111)

for delivery to…

xyz@xyz.com (222.222.222.222)

The destination mail server has bounced the email because of an errant listing within the SPEWS database which is in turn included within the OsiruSoft listings.

A query of the SPEWS database at http://www.spews.org on ip 111.111.111.111 will return the following result.

luckybudget
|--------------------
1, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com
1, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com
1, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
2, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com (mtu.ru)
1, 111.111.111.10, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 111.111.111.0/25, luckybudget.com / ggoldenfalconcasino.com
1, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com / magnolia.happychance.com
2, 111.111.111.111, luckybudget.com / goldenfalconcasino.com / magnolia.happychance.com (zenon.net)
---------------------|

As can be seen from the above, the full 111.111.111.0/25 ip block has been included in the database even though the offending ip is actually just 111.111.111.10. The reason for the entire /25 inclusion could probably be traced to a misconfigured router at or near 111.111.111.10, but the important point for the sake of this communication is simply that the /25 block is included at all.

111.111.111.10 is controlled by ********** web hosting, who may or may not be guilty of allowing spamming to originate from, or relay via their network. Unlike SPEWS, we are not prepared to arbitrate as to their guilt by way of a process which allows no defence, appeal, or even communication…

Quote taken from SPEWS faq at http://www.spews.org/faq.html

<--- quote begins --->
Q41: How does one contact SPEWS?
A41. One does not. SPEWS does not receive email - it's just an automated system and website…
<--- quote ends --->

In any case though, the crux of the matter is that the ip 111.111.111.10 is under the control of ********** who are in no way connected with the ********** network or **********. We have no control over ********** and we are not in a position to impose our intolerance of spam upon them. Until recently, we had never heard of ********** and we have no opinion of the quality or professionalism of their service.

At this point we are asking the administrator of the mail server bouncing our client’s mail to consider carefully the validity of the model adopted by SPEWS, and we are further requesting that some modification may be made to your filtering software so that the valid non-spam mail from the ip 111.111.111.111 may be allowed into your network. At the very least one solution would be to adopt SPEWS’ own suggestion at http://www/spews.org/faq.html

<--- quote begins --->
Q19: I’ve found that my ISP/Host/etc. is using SPEWS to block/filter email and I don’t like that!
A19: You can ask them if they are able to just “tag” the incoming email as possible spam instead of bouncing it. If they are unable to do this, we are sure there are plenty of ISPs/Hosts/etc. who do not use SPEWS and would welcome you as a customer.
<--- quote ends --->

Our own preferred choice is to avoid the use of the SPEWS database altogether as its content tends to err on the side of finding the innocent guilty rather than working on a presumption of innocence.

We are well aware of the increasing impact of spam on the internet mail system, and we are willing and eager to take any reasonable and responsible steps required to assist in the global elimination of spam and spam-tolerant networks and hosts. However, we do not believe that the SPEWS model is a responsible solution. The “throwing the baby out with the bathwater” approach simply does not come close to providing a sustainable method of spam minimisation or elimination.

If the administrator of the recipient mail server could see fit to take any action on behalf of our client, we would be extremely thankful. To this end we would be glad to provide whatever co-operation or assistance which may be required.

We thank you for your time in considering this correspondence and look forward to hearing from you.

Best Regards,

etc.

Originally posted by Chicken

And there you have it. Exactly why irresponsible 'organizations' such as SPEWS (such an appropriate name now that I think of it), are a joke. Hey, I bet if you block the IP range of every possible IP on the internet, no spam will come your way. What a brilliant idea.

Yes thank you for agreeing that its A BRILLiant idea!

Why? Cause if the innocent bystanders are listed along with the spamming vermin, maybe they'll make sense enough and ASK THEIR service provider why they are in spews? Ever thought of that?

If your isp/webhost is incapable of handling a few miscreants on their own network and ignore abuse complaints coming in from network providers getting crap from their customers, would you want to stick around and pay them money for something they are not providing you with?

SPEWS works as demonstrated by the influx of complaints from ISP/webhosts who finally got hit by the CLUE-by-four and started acting on complaints. Most have now started to actually act on complaints instead of waiting to get their netblocks listed in spews for their incompetence.

If you dont like what spews does, YOU DONT have to use them. DONT blame spews if your email cannot get through because and ISP does wish to use it. THEY Dont want spam. They are tired of spam and IF ITS shown that your webhost/isp is incapable or unwiling to do anything about their spam problem, their traffic will not be wanted.

Look up:
Empire Towers
Monsterhut (recently disconnected by PaeTec)

if you want to see how well spews works (or similar RBL/DNSBL lists works).


Example #2 of why SPEWS (and other such 'black lists') are a joke. What a bunch of idiots. This 'system' couldn't be more broken if they tried to make it more broken. It is sad, really sad.

You say its broken? Why? Because the innocent are suddenly clued-in to how much of a problem spam is becoming. Studies prove that spam will render the email system USELESS in just a couple of years and that spam/junk mail has risen 125% over the last two years. Do you realize that if just one junkmailer with one of those MILLIONS = email address cd's sends out just a 4 kb message to every single one person on that cd, how much traffic and bandwidth and stolen relays are costing companies?



Hey I hate spammers as much as the next guy, but there is a right way to do things and a wrong way. If it doesn't affect me, then I don't give a rat's donkey what they do. When it does...

Good when it finally affects you, you know who to blame. YOUR ISP for neglecting to do what you pay them to do. Provide you with connectivity.


Here's a thought... somebody sue SPEWS for their blocking of IP ranges that haven't spammed. Someone sue them for their incompetence (which is more than apparent). As I said, just pathetic, simply pathetic.


Cartooney zone.

YOU cannot sew someone for their unwillingness to accept your traffic. There is NO law that requires that I or any other service provider has to accept email from you. There is no law that says that I have to use spews to BLOCK email. Someone can use spews to use as a WHITELIST.

So if someone came onto your property without permission to try and sell you your next vacuum cleaner, do they have the right to enter your house and demonstrate it?
No
Same goes for networks. Same goes for isps.

SPEWS is not responsible for your traffic being blocked.

From the spews faq:

Q10: Isn't SPEWS censorship?
A10: No, SPEWS is a list of areas of the Internet that some people do not wish to communicate with. Think of it as one group's Consumer Reports review of portions of the billions of Internet addresses. These are the ones SPEWS members have a poor opinion of. SPEWS is not anti-commerce and fully supports the USA's First Amendment and other nation's free speech protections. In fact, the USA's Supreme Court agrees with the SPEWS view. The creators of SPEWS are its main users and who it was designed for, if others decide to also use its data, they are exercising their own rights. No one is forced to use SPEWS.

Q12: As a spammer or spam supporter listed in SPEWS, don't I have legal grounds to sue SPEWS?
A12: Not in any jurisdiction we've seen. SPEWS is just an opinion report, used by some to filter Internet traffic, others to read for amusement, it was not created, intended, or used to libel or defame anyone. The USA's Federal Trade Commission (ftc.gov) recommends the filtering option and directs people to a CDT report detailing the spam problem and solutions to it. Many other people and places have implemented this government suggested option.

Q13: What gives you the right to stop spammers, or anyone for that matter, from sending you email?
A13: Basic private property rights and basic freedoms to associate with and not associate with whomever we chose. Our email systems and mailboxes are our and our client's private property, some of us tried putting up "no trespassing" signs ("don't spam here" banners), when they were disregarded we hired the equivalent of a "nightclub bouncer" who has a list of past trespassers and potential troublemakers we'd rather not let in. The bouncer is our email/packet filtering software, the list it uses is called SPEWS.


Should rackshack handle spam complaints? Of course. They have a TOS and they need to adhere to it just as their clients should. At the same time, those of you considering using blacklists such as SPEWS need to understand that these people are reckless in their actions and that they do block IP ranges


Read spews FAQ # 13. We have the right to block any one we wish for any reason. If i dont want traffic from MSN members into my webspace/email, I can do that.


at innocent sites are affected by that. Do you want to support such irresponsibility? As I said, everyone is guilty, block everything and then don't provide a means to rectify the error. That's how you provide a worthwhile service to the internet community. For pete's sake... :rolleyes:

Irresponsibilty is in the hands of those ISP's who wish to ignore, dont act and rather keep their spamming vermin in favor of legitimate customers.

I'd rather not read your view points any more, should you be punished? I can easily choose not to, but instead I think the moderators of this forum should be held accountable for everything you write that may upset or disturb me. Oops, you shouldn't be the one who has to pay for your disturbing comments made here, it should be your ISP!

Please.

Originally posted by WizyWyg
Studies prove that spam will render the email system USELESS in just a couple of years ...
Where can I find these studies?

Where can I find these studies?Probably from the same people who said the internet would collapse in less than two years if IPv6 wasn't completed and rolled out by then. Back in 1994 or 1995. Some geeks from the IETF who were slightly off in their projections.

Source: An IPv6 advocacy seminar in either 1994 or 1995 hosted by the Michigan User Group

Originally posted by DizixCom
I'd rather not read your view points any more, should you be punished? I can easily choose not to, but instead I think the moderators of this forum should be held accountable for everything you write that may upset or disturb me. Oops, you shouldn't be the one who has to pay for your disturbing comments made here, it should be your ISP!

Please.

Unlike email you can choose not to read anything I post. If you read it after following a thread to see where its going, you chose to read its contents. The owners and moderators of this board cannot prevent you from your choice to read anything on this board. If you saw a post that says "you are an @$$hole" and you click on it, you BY CHOICE decided to agree to read it. They can't be held to anything you choose to do.

Email on the other hand is FORCED upon you by spammers. You can only CHOOSE not to receive email by enforcing your own filters and blocking methods. That's not the way WE should be doing it. That's cost shifting. Spammers dont pay for the webspace that their email takes up in your directory or on your acct.

Originally posted by allera

Where can I find these studies?

http://www.cauce.org/about/problem.shtml
http://www.cauce.org/about/faq.shtml
http://news.com.com/2010-1072-874374.html
http://spam.abuse.net/
http://www.claws-and-paws.com/spam/costs_of_spam.shtml
http://www.ecofuture.org/jm/spam_cost.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/fc/Tech/Spam_and_Junk_Email/
http://www.cmsconnect.com/Marketing/spamcalc.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1917000/1917458.stm
http://staging.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/00/12/05/001205hnspam.xml
http://www.peterman.co.za/spam.html
http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/8551.html
http://burns.senate.gov/p010327a.htm
http://support.vol.com/Spam_and_Abuse.asp
http://www.sff.net/help/email/spam.asp


Have fun researching.

Originally posted by WizyWyg


Unlike email you can choose not to read anything I post. If you read it after following a thread to see where its going, you chose to read its contents. The owners and moderators of this board cannot prevent you from your choice to read anything on this board. If you saw a post that says "you are an @$$hole" and you click on it, you BY CHOICE decided to agree to read it. They can't be held to anything you choose to do.

Email on the other hand is FORCED upon you by spammers. You can only CHOOSE not to receive email by enforcing your own filters and blocking methods. That's not the way WE should be doing it. That's cost shifting. Spammers dont pay for the webspace that their email takes up in your directory or on your acct.

It seems that you are using flawed logic constantly in this thread. When someone clicks on this thread to read about "rackshack troubles" they are forced to download your unwanted propaganda, rant, or anything you want to call it.

Anyway... that's really not my main reason for posting.

We are well aware of the negative affects of "spam" (like i don't get enough of it in the real world) BUT that doesn't mean being overzealous of your tasks is okay. When a teenager commits a crime you punish that teenager specifically, not all teenagers.

I can go one with examples but the fact of the matter is that spews.org is not operating in the best manner that it could. Does that mean ISP's don't have responsibility? Of course not...

Also you've got to understand the pain that hosts here who have been blacklisted by spews might feel. It's only natural to feel this way after they have experienced what they did.

Originally posted by web_res


We are well aware of the negative affects of "spam" (like i don't get enough of it in the real world) BUT that doesn't mean being overzealous of your tasks is okay. When a teenager commits a crime you punish that teenager specifically, not all teenagers.

Bad analogy because I've seen it where the parents of wrong-doing teenagers end up paying for their teenagers mistakes. Then its hte parent's choice to do as they please to get their child to pay.

If your kid defaces a wall, who pays for it to clean it up? the parents
Who's held accountable for a kid should he shoplift from a store?
The parents.

ISP/webhosts are the "parents" of their customers, and they are held responsible for what their customers do on, with or outside their servers (via relay rape, or using another service to spam their website, or service residing on that isp's server).

So how do Isp's recover? Take care of their spamming vermin (kick them off) and with an AIR TIGHT AUP/TOS extract damage payment from their irresponsible customers. Its called a clean up fee. I know of several isp's that assess a clean up fee should their customers break their contract (one was as high as $1000). Its a way for isps' to fight back should they have one trouble making customer.

I can go one with examples but the fact of the matter is that spews.org is not operating in the best manner that it could. Does that mean ISP's don't have responsibility? Of course not...

And you lost sight of the fact that SPEWS does nothing. All they do is list Isps' and webhosts and block of ip addresses of where spam has proven to come from; are where spammers have gone to to avoid block lists; and isps' who do everything in their power to move spammers around their netspace to avoid block lists. I can go on with examples of how just blocking only "1" ip address has been tried before. AND FAIELD numerous times. Why? Because of isps' who move their spamming customers around to avoid them.

I propose to anyone in here who has a problem with BLOCK lists to offer another solution (any block list, SPEWS is just one of them). WE've yet to hear a cure all solution. Legislation is out becuase itll take them 5 years just to catch up with the problem. So offer a solution as to how we can avoid spam altogether, get Isp's to kick off spammers.

None? Thought so.....


Also you've got to understand the pain that hosts here who have been blacklisted by spews might feel. It's only natural to feel this way after they have experienced what they did.

I know how they feel.
I KNOW how it is to be on a block list.
I have first hand experience on being on a block list as part of an IP range because I was close to an iP block where a known spammer was.
I didn't complain to the person with the block list
I didnt complain to spews.
I DID complain to my webhost who was bought out by Interland. Subsequently, I vacated Interland's webspace and took my business elsewhere. They dont want to help their legitimate customers, they can go on supporting spammers without my money.

The SENSIBLE thing is not to blame spews for what they do. They do nothing. The isps' who chooses to use spews is who you have a problem with. And if they dont want to "whitelist" you, then you have no right to demand that they allow your traffic. Your problem is also with the isp you choose to do business with, where it took a LISTING in spews to get them to do something. And that's a problem in itself.

someone report this guys ip to spews-nonsense.com , this topic is way off track

Originally posted by Incognito
As bad as spammers are, they are worse.

I personally do not want a cure that is far worse than the disease.
Sums it up.

There's a drug dealer who lives in an apartment complex. This complex has had drug dealers who lived there before. Solution? Arrest all tenants and put them in jail. Maybe when people see that innocent people are being arrested, they'll stop buying drugs. Ohhh, and you can't contact the police, they aren't available.

I'm just thankful these morons don't run anything else.

WizyWyg, if you choose to champion this pathetic cause and use such a disturbingly flawed system, then that's your choice. You've only convinced me to write an article to prevent others from making the mistake of using these lists.

A mate of mine did that and they pulled his server, and thereby destroying his new hosting business, in order to "get a response from the client".

They also were then forced to promise a refund which never came...

Originally posted by Chicken

Sums it up.

There's a drug dealer who lives in an apartment complex. This complex has had drug dealers who lived there before. Solution? Arrest all tenants and put them in jail. Maybe when people see that innocent people are being arrested, they'll stop buying drugs. Ohhh, and you can't contact the police, they aren't available.

Man the use of bad comparisons run rampant through this!!! I can't believe how anyone hasn't thought any of this through. YOUR comparison is seriously flawed and doesn't even compare to what SPEWS does or is.

If the landlord of that apartment complex doesn't do anything to to curb the problem in his building, the city and building inspectors along with authorities can come down and penalize the buildign owner/landlord. ASSESSING them fines for running a building that was unsafe and a cespool where crime is happening. If neighbors complain about the wrongdoing going on, and the landlord/building owner does nothing, the neighbors can then either choose to still live there under those conditions or MOVE.

When a crackdown or drug raid happens, the POLICE/FBI arrest anyone they see that is involved. If the entire building is involved, then they arrest all the tennants. Innocent people to get arrested whether they wree involved or not, but that HAS never stopped anyone from still doing or dealing drugs or the police/fbi from committing drug raids.

BAD analogy.


It has happened. Its happened in my state, and many other states.

I'm just thankful these morons don't run anything else.

WizyWyg, if you choose to champion this pathetic cause and use such a disturbingly flawed system, then that's your choice. You've only convinced me to write an article to prevent others from making the mistake of using these lists.

And there will be about 100+ other people who will shoot down your theory.

Please, if you do wish to shout down the disadvantages of block lists and their 'mistake' to use one, I Sugges that you also think og alternatives as well.

Provide an alternative. That's what SPEWS wants. They dont like what they have to do, but they do it, because they and those who use their lists are TIRED. TIRED of the spam that has become a major problem.

YOU can't just attack something YOU DONT LIKE because you dont like it. YOU have to offer an alternative solution to the problem. And UNTIL there is an alternative to using RBl's DNSBL's and other block lists, there is nothing you can say or do to prevent someone to use one if they feel like it.

Ive yet to see anyone on this board or those who hate SPEWS so much to offer an alternative to curbing the spam problem.

As far as ON TOPIC, Rackshack has its fair share of problems and one is that they need to take care of their customers, and not favor spammers over them.