Ok people,

I am a designer and I have a problem with "Built it for us and we'll give you FREE hosting" oh but you can resell it. SO!!

Dont you people get it that designers need to eat and pay bills too. How hard is it to come up with a few bucks and actualy PAY someone for the work they do. Graphics, Design, Programming, Backend whatever.

You post a job then wonder why no one answers your call.

PAY PEOPLE!!!!

Why is it that some of you want something for nothing?

Ok, I'm done...If you CANT afford to pay for it in REAL cash then dont ask for people to build it..

Amen :angel:
I agree with you on the fact that designers should be paid. However many ( mostly young ) people here can make nice sites, haven't got a credit card, and need webhosting, to build a site/portfolio whatever.

However, you cannot expect to get a full designed professional website, in exchange for a simple hosting account. Professional sites cost money, not a $15 hosting package.

Just my 2 cents :)

Originally posted by Tranz
. . . . . . If you CANT afford to pay for it in REAL cash then dont ask for people to build it.. And if you can't build the site for the price; don't build it.

Originally posted by Tranz
Ok people,

I am a designer and I have a problem with "Built it for us and we'll give you FREE hosting" oh but you can resell it. SO!!

Dont you people get it that designers need to eat and pay bills too. How hard is it to come up with a few bucks and actualy PAY someone for the work they do. Graphics, Design, Programming, Backend whatever.

You post a job then wonder why no one answers your call.

PAY PEOPLE!!!!

Why is it that some of you want something for nothing?

Ok, I'm done...If you CANT afford to pay for it in REAL cash then dont ask for people to build it..


Nobodys breaking your arm and telling you to respond or attempt to make the design, if you dont like bartering, ignore the post

Just like any other avenue that exists in business, there will always be someone that undercuts you in one way or another.

A lot of times people have come here and posted contests or free hosting for designs and they got them, why would someone offer $1000 cash when they know they don't have to?

Originally posted by diederik
Amen :angel:
However many ( mostly young ) people here can make nice sites, haven't got a credit card, and need webhosting, to build a site/portfolio whatever.


That says it all.

Designers with no portfolio want to build one up. I would assume this post may be directed at my thread asking for a template. I make no apologies for asking for someone to design me a template or two in exchange for hosting.

I have helped with programming,websites,server administration in exchange for service i.e webhosting myself in the past and was always grateful.

The majority of people round here seem willing to spend a little time to build up a portfolio and receive free hosting for it. I sure would if I was any younger again.

Like they said; if you don't want to do a template for hosting don't. Quite simple. Perhaps this thread is way off topic for this forum.

i fully agree

I wasnt diging at people that make the offer. I just think the newbie has to eat too.

Some newbies start out by working at home from the get go. No, not a wise idea but some do. They too would reliy on a few pennies. Free hosting can be found all over the place. I look at it this way. You give up space that you have. Granted you cant sell that space but it and the correspoding bandwidth arent realy going to hurt you in the long run.

But, yet with the design if it is for a client or a hosting company it (the work) will continue to generate revenue for the company or person giving the designer free hosting. If it is for a client then there must have been some money involved for the design.

Yes, could the subject be argued all day long, sure it could. I just think that coders, designer, programmers even newbies should at a minimum get a monetary compensation for their efforts. It gives most people on that side of the industry a sense of worth and accomplishement.

Thats all. I wasnt trying to jump anybodies case, I know it reads that way, not ment too though.

:)

point well explained

Just to offer another view point: It is important for people just starting out to network and meet people in their field. From the people they meet they may get leads, espeailly if they do a stand up job and leave an impression.

Trans, you are extremely good at what you do and should have little trouble drumming up paying work, but these opportunities to help others get started don't happen in every industry.

<my_opinion>
Hosting is so damn cheap these days, I dont see how a full site design, or close to that, could be worth a measley(in most cases) hosting account. Of course we need a place to host our portfolios, but in the end if youre purely a designer, pretty much any host will do. Youre showing of your work...in most cases potential clients dont care about the quality/speed of your host. If youre work is good, it doesnt matter where youre hosted. You could host your site with geocities, although those popups make me want to vomit...But, if you were that desperate...and youre work was good enough to overshadow the ****ty hosting....it wont be long before you should be able to afford youre on decent hosting account.

I dont mind the minimal monthly fees I pay for my account, In the end...hosting for site design is just an unbalanced scale.

</my_opinion>

-nocturnix

Greetings!

While I understand there are budding designers who need to develop portfolio and will be glad to offer their services for a rather cheap (please forgive the word) price, I also believe that some professional designers deserve a good credit for their work.

Yes, I agree with nocturnix, hosting seems to be not commensurate as a price for a web design. But, it all depends on the designer concerned.

Meanwhile, I also believe that doing a promo once (or may be twice the most) is already enough to build up a portfolio. My opinion is that doing a promo on the same design service over and over again is somehow "degrading" (sorry again for the word) and makes a designer appear unprofessional (my opinion only - no pun intended).

:)

Originally posted by nocturnix123
...hosting for site design is just an unbalanced scale.

I see all the "free" requests for design, hosting, and everything else. It's simply a matter of whether you think it is to your benefit or not. Personally, I don't believe in free as a pricing strategy.

However, there are exceptions and each must make his own. For instance, if yahoo asked me to design them a new template in exchange for a free banner on their homepage I would go running....lol

I personally look for relationships that can be mutually beneficial over the long run and have met some very talented designers through WHT who are building their businesses and willing to offer excellent pricing (but not free) in exchange for a volume of business. Have been very satisfied with their work. They are very quick on the turnaround (I hold them up much more than they do me) and their work is quite good and sometimes exceptional.

For instance, I just received a logo this morning that I term a "stroke of genius".

I personally enjoy working with many of these designers and while I want good pricing I also want them happy so the relationships can continue.

I value them as associates and hope to maintain long-term relationships. Frankly, many of them are so refreshingly responsive and eager to satisfy the customer that it makes things very enjoyable.I encourage everyone to give some of these designers a chance and you will be pleasantly surprised. I just prefer to work out fair prices rather than look for freebies and trades for hosting they don't need.

I wonder if I can get PixelBrick to design me a Web site in exchange for free hosting. I've got reseller accounts I get for $1 per month. I'd give them a whole year of free hosting. Heck, I'd give 'em two years free.

$24 sounds like a fair price.

Steve

<< DUPLICATE REMOVED >>

I don't see any problem with bartering Tranz. If both parties agree to it then I don't see an issue.

I'll open a hosting business and trade hosting for a design if Pixelbrick would go for that scslawin!

Tranz,
You make a good point. I see it just about everyday, someone is offering a hosting account for a site design. It really is annoying, when most designers bust their ass off to make a buck, and they have to be insulted by foolish people who offer a hosting account. However, I do believe that unless you pay for it you're not going to get what you want. You get what you pay for. If you don't pay for it, you don't get it.

well, I think that people who don't do design have a theory that it is easy. I am sure they couldn't tell anyone what a golden rectangle is unless they looked it up, or the rule of thirds, or anything about color theory (except for: make it blue. Blue is safe. and give me an anchor color here... Tranz knows what I'm talking about). And I am sure that they don't realize how many steps ahead a good digital deigner think in order to get the job done and to make sure the programmers/developers can use what they are churning out.

and... I am also sure that bc these people might have launched photoshop, combustion, after effects, studio artist, cinema 4d, maya, studio max, swift 3d (or any one of the other gazillions of packages that decent designers know) that they think they are experts, etc.

Ever run into one of these people? Well, I have. Sure, I'll do something for ya but don't offer me hosting, or a banner, or something ridiculous like that. Money talks and the rest walks. It doesn't need to be a lot but, yes, we need to survive too. And, without us, all of you would still have fat bevels, 4pixel borders on your tables, drop shadows, feathered photos, and everything else that looks like it is out of a 1970's, pre-CG/decent chyron , made for TV movie.

Hire us because we are good. Hire us because we know what we are doing. Hire us because you will pay us. Not because your desperate.

Ok... that's my rant :) I really am a nice guy. Oh, yes, I am lloking for new projects. I don't play around.

Tranz, perheps you don't understand what this could do for your biz in the long-run. Let's say you create a template for a hostbiz in exchange for some free hosting or smth like that. I doubt this company will settle for this rather simple solution when they have been in biz for a while and made some sells. What will happen then? Well, if they were satisfied with the template you build them to start with I'm sure your are the first one they contact when it's time to build the new "real" site. You must understand, this is a "give and take" situation. To start a hosting biz demands some investment and the owner also have to put "food on the table". At the end, the solution you complain about can lead to a situation where both the hostingbiz and the designer could benefit a great deal.

My friend has a point!

Originally posted by champmac
Tranz, perheps you don't understand what this could do for your biz in the long-run. Let's say you create a template for a hostbiz in exchange for some free hosting or smth like that. I doubt this company will settle for this rather simple solution when they have been in biz for a while and made some sells. What will happen then? Well, if they were satisfied with the template you build them to start with I'm sure your are the first one they contact when it's time to build the new "real" site. You must understand, this is a "give and take" situation. To start a hosting biz demands some investment and the owner also have to put "food on the table". At the end, the solution you complain about can lead to a situation where both the hostingbiz and the designer could benefit a great deal.


Just happen to see if anyone posted and I come to find that people have. Yes, in SOME cases it is of an advantage for the designer that is comfotable doing the smaller gigs ALL the time. In my dealings I have noticed that hosts are not getting calls for the $5000 - $10,000 site designs. A client in most cases would go to a specialized firm for getting such work.

Also, if a business is in start-up mode then they should have to account for the costs of doing business, not only the hardware but intelectual capital as well.

I see people starting hosting busninesses day after day. In some cases the business is nothing more then a guy and a 1u server in a colo. Come on..Does he think that he is really going to compete in the field? he is shooting himself in the foot before he gets off running.

It takes 4-8 months to properly layout a business, it's plan, marketing, capital equipment acquisitons ect. This I'll toss up a page and do it in a weekend. Yeah, ok..

I need a cool site. I'll goto WHT and toss up a post of free hosting and a partnership deal. Yeah, that will get me an ok site, just long enough to get a few clients and then I will go back to the designer and get a new revised version.

My problem is that when people get into the hosting biz yes it does cost money. Do you not figure in the cost of the site design into the overall budget? If not why?