Looking for a good cheap way of accepting online payments in the uk.
have had an absolute skinfull of paypal and refuse to deal with them anymore.
thay have virtually brought my business to a halt over my bussiest period.

Welcome to the forums Dannyboy2006!

It all depends on what you are selling, why you want a cheap way of processing, and why Paypal stopped processing.

At this point, youu can look into Protx / Barclay's, Worldpay, or 2CO.

What was your main issue with paypal?

I thought you were going to be complaining of them spamming customers of the Verisign's Payflow services.

Have they given you a reason though why they suspended your account?

Locked out as they required more information.
Things is they are questioning the athenticity of goods.....they have receipts stating they were bought from a well know hight street retailer...go figure.
So have had a enough of them now and would like to find an alternative method which will loose me as little business as possible. is it possible to checkout on ebay and have a credit card payment page entered there?

Locked out as they required more information.


Hate to say this, but I'd request the same!

what do you mean?

Ive been a member of paypal for a long time and ive not had any problems with them whatsoever,

Only thing i hate is ebay with thier spoof emails :uzi:

well i hope you never have to endure what i have with them in the last 2 months.
They are a law unto themselves. Withholding funds demanding information and once they have got it still not providing service. Honestly feel like i've been mugged and all this from a massive company with god knows how many customers.

what do you mean?

I mean you're not providing any information here. Give us some emails (w/headers) or something we can verify. I've been with PP forever and have never had an issue. This is not to say it hasn't happened or couldn't, but you need to provide "proof."

Well not posting actual mails but.
in one mail last night i had a reply asking for tracking information for items i'd sold.
The email was a reply to a letter that i had sent the week before saying i had already sent them the faxed details which was replied on a mail sent from them confirming they had all the details that they had requested and would be sorted i 3-5 days. If that makes sense you'll see how much sense it doesn't make .

Well not posting actual mails but.
in one mail last night i had a reply asking for tracking information for items i'd sold.
The email was a reply to a letter that i had sent the week before saying i had already sent them the faxed details which was replied on a mail sent from them confirming they had all the details that they had requested and would be sorted i 3-5 days. If that makes sense you'll see how much sense it doesn't make .


You need to post "actual mails" and headers...

why?? wouldn't it be possible to just make something up?
Does this sound unbelieveable to you?

Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concerns.

Unfortunately at this time, we are unable to lift the limitations on
your account. Once the information you have submitted to us has been
reviewed, we will then contact you to update you of any developments.
We
do appreciate your patience while we are looking into this matter and
hope to resolve this situation as promptly as we can.

Please let me know if you need further assistance.

Copyright © 1999-2005 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe)
Ltd.
is regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom
as an electronic money institution. PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056

Sincerely,
John
Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company



Original Message Follows:
------------------------
hi,

is there any chance my account can receive payments until all
information is reviewed?
I have faxed all info and really need to receive payment to get my
christmas items out tomorrow....tonight is my cut off date....PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE review this case.

Regards
"webform@paypal.co.uk (http://uk.f267.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=webform@paypal.co.uk&YY=25907&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b)" <webform@paypal.co.uk (http://uk.f267.mail.yahoo.com/ym/Compose?To=webform@paypal.co.uk&YY=25907&order=down&sort=date&pos=0&view=a&head=b)> wrote:
Dear ****************,
Thank you for contacting PayPal with your concern.
We have received fax documents from you on 10/12
Thank you for providing the fax documents. We did receive them as of
10/12/05. I have now forwarded this information to the relevant
department for further review.
Please allow them at least 48 hours to process and review this
information. If they require any further information they will contact
you directly via email. If you have any other questions, please do not
hesitate to contact us again.
We appreciate your patience and cooperation during this process.
Copyright © 1999-2005 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal (Europe) Ltd.
is regulated by the Financial Services Authority in the United Kingdom
as an electronic money institution. PayPal FSA Register Number: 226056
Please let me know if you need further assistance.
Sincerely,
Brian
PayPal Resolution Services
PayPal, an eBay Company
Original Message Follows:
------------------------
Form Message
customer message: Hi,
i have submitted all the information you needed poste haste for my
account. Would be grateful if you could do the same for me as i have
customers wishing to receive purchases before christmas. Many Thanks

Does this sound unbelieveable to you?

Yes! You're new here. Your only comments are regarding PP ( in this thread). Even if you weren't a newbie, in order to prove this, headers would be requested. Why can you not post them?

they don't say much apart from a list of numbers whic probably refer to the case id(which should be of no interest to anyone and the word"restricted" and a routing code

i actually came on here for advise and not to have a go at paypal.

i actually came on here for advise and not to have a go at paypal.

Fair enough, post headers? At least validate your claim!

just a little curious to know whats in the header that validates my claim?
If you can give me a valid reason guess i maybe be able list it

just a little curious to know whats in the header that validates my claim?
If you can give me a valid reason guess i maybe be able list it

Headers typically prove where an email was sent from and validate it's "real." I think you know that already though.. I give up. I originally thought your claim was true, but now I'm second guessing..

As for your original post, use the "search" feature here. Clearly, you don't need a third party processor. There are many great CC processors listed here..with reviews.

Good luck to you!

no just a little worrie dabout giving information out that i need not give out.

no just a little worrie dabout giving information out that i need not give out.

Feel free to block your own IP in the headers, but not PP's!

not sure which bit is the ip.
can you point me in the right direction?
have a routing code
qid number
and other set of letters spaced by - but not a ip address

Jspirited do you work for paypal? Suppose you do what are you gonna do to help this guy? Assuming you don't which I'm fairly certain you don't why do you keep pestering him if you don't believe his story ignore it. Dannyboy consider this a lesson learned dealing with those criminals I had a similar problem with them, but I never trusted them from the get go so I never left a cent in there. I have a real merchant account now through my local bank and have never been happier.

If you are ever unsure about the validity of emails that appear to be from PayPal, you should type the PayPal web address into your browser (do NOT click links in the email) and log in to see if there are any restrictions on your account.

You will probably be unable to receive assistance for your PayPal issues in this forum. You should work with PayPal's Customer Service to resolve your issues; you may want to try contacting them by phone if the emails you have received have not answered your questions. To contact PayPal Customer Service by phone, click the Help link at the top of the PayPal website, click the Contact Us link on the left side of the Help page, and then look for the Phone option.

well i hope you never have to endure what i have with them in the last 2 months.
They are a law unto themselves. Withholding funds demanding information and once they have got it still not providing service. Honestly feel like i've been mugged and all this from a massive company with god knows how many customers.

You are not alone. There are many horror stories like this about Paypal on other forums. I use them only for ebay purchases and take money out asap, but for all other transactions, I sucked up the cost of a proper merchant account.

well i usually think IKOBO is best, i use paypal.

You need to post "actual mails" and headers...
Uh, paypal has a very long rapsheet of doing this same thing.
I'll take his word for it, you can go play detective.

Anyone who has used PayPal and got their account limited can understand your frustration. I too was in this situation just 2 months ago. I sold 10 SONY PSP's on ebay. While my auctions were listed, PayPal called me directly by phone and asked if I were drop-shipping these items or if I had them is stock. This is part of their "fraud" protection. It is amazing that they even ask these types of questions to merchants. It is none of their business, but they claim they have a right to know. Of course, this is complete BS because in their Terms of Service agreement they specifically state that they are strictly a "Payment Processor Only" and that they "do not guarantee the goods or services exchanged through their system."

PayPal is great for casual buying and selling, but they are not a good choice for medium- to high-volume merchants.

Go to paypalsucks.com and read the horror stories and complaints from literally thousands of PayPal members. One of the worst PayPal policies is that if they suspect your account for fraud, they can lock your money for up to 180 days! That is completely nuts! This has ruined many businesses on ebay because they could not function due to funds being held in their PayPal account. Their customer service is not the best either. If they get frustrated with you, they simply hang up the phone. WOW, now that's courtesy!

Hope it helps,
SAF

While my auctions were listed, PayPal called me directly by phone and asked if I were drop-shipping these items or if I had them is stock. This is part of their "fraud" protection. It is amazing that they even ask these types of questions to merchants. It is none of their business, but they claim they have a right to know. Actually it is their business. It is their money before it is yours. let's say that each one of those was $100. So if something happened, that would be $1,000 that Paypal would be liable for if you were no where to be found.

Merchant account providers will do the same thing from time to time because they are just as responsible.

A very good advice: don't use 2CO; it is a lot worse than PP!!!! :(

Actually it is their business. It is their money before it is yours. let's say that each one of those was $100. So if something happened, that would be $1,000 that Paypal would be liable for if you were no where to be found.

Merchant account providers will do the same thing from time to time because they are just as responsible.

With all due respect, but it is clear that you don't understand PP's buyer and seller protection policies. Trust me, their policies favor neither the buyer nor the seller, they only favor PP. I know because I have been on both sides of disputes with them.

Allow me to tell you exactly what happened to me in September/05.

I purchased an item on ebay. I paid the woman using PP and sent her $120. After 3 weeks and repeated emails she never sent the item to me. I filed a dispute with PP and they allow the seller to respond within 10 days. PP informs me that if the seller does not respond, the dispute will be judged in my favor. After 10 days the seller never responds and PP refunds me just $40 because that was the money available in the sellers PP acount. Beyond that I was out $80. PP refused to refund the remaining money from their own pocket.

In another case, I sold an item on ebay to a buyer. I shipped the item out immediately following payment sent from the buyer via PP. The buyer was a fraud and filed a dispute with PP and claimed that he never received the item. This was not true since I know I sent it, but unfortunately I could not prove it because I did not use any tracking on the package (we all learn the hard way). PayPal judged the dispute in the buyers favor. I refused to refund the buyer. Luckily there was no money in my PP account so I felt safe knowing that PP could not force me to refund the money. PP immediately withdrew funds from my checking account, which is linked to my PP account, and refunded the buyer. And if you think this is not allowed, think again. In PP's User Agreement, you give PP full consent to withraw funds from your checking account and CC on file with your PP account if you are liable in a dispute.

So, as you can see, PayPal does not give a crap about their customers. They never take responsibility nor do they ever take money from their own pocket to refunds money based on a legitmate dispute.

Now you know.
SAF

there was no money in my PP account so I felt safe knowing that PP could not force me to refund the money. PP immediately withdrew funds from my checking account, which is linked to my PP account, and refunded the buyer.

I didn't think PayPal would pull money from a checking account directly without your confirmation/approval of the transaction. Was this recent? If you still have the account, can you tell me the type of transaction that is shown in your History for this withdrawal? (I would like to know whether it showed a new "Add funds from a bank account" entry, or maybe the system cancelled a prior "Withdraw funds to a bank account" transaction.)

EDIT:
They never take responsibility nor do they ever take money from their own pocket to refunds money based on a legitmate dispute.

Actually, if the transaction and dispute are covered under the Seller Protection Policy, PayPal allows the merchant to keep the net sale amount, and it is up to PayPal to dispute the claim with the buyer. As you mentioned earlier, your particular transaction was not covered by SPP, but that doesn't mean it never happens.

I was not covered under the Seller Protection Policy because I did not ship the item with tracking. I will not make that msitake again.

And yes, PayPal can and will debit funds from your CC or bank account if they think you owe them money. It is stated in their User Agreement (see the last sentence)


Receipt of Payments; Risk of Reversal of Transactions; Collection of Funds you owe PayPal. When you receive a payment through the Service, unless you follow the steps necessary to qualify for our Seller Protection Policy, you are not protected against a subsequent reversal of the transaction. In the event that the sender's transaction is reversed for any reason and you do not qualify for the Seller Protection Policy for that transaction, you will owe PayPal for the amount of the reversed transaction plus any fees imposed on PayPal as a result of the reversal. Examples of such a reversal include, but are not limited to, a credit card reversal by the sender of the payment, and a reversal of the transaction because the sender of the payment was using a stolen credit card or unauthorized bank account. PayPal will seek to recover the funds from you by debiting your PayPal balance and, if there are not sufficient funds in your PayPal balance, PayPal reserves the right to collect your debt to PayPal by any other legal means.

SAF

But could you log in to find out what type of transaction is shown? (Or has it been too long ago for you to find it easily?)

I am sorry SAFX that you actually misunderstood my message. I was not referring to any policies on Paypal's website.

I am sorry SAFX that you actually misunderstood my message. I was not referring to any policies on Paypal's website.

I don't believe I misunderstood your message. In your response you are referring to PayPal's "liability" based on fraudulent actions committed by buyers and sellers. PayPal is liable under these circumstances based on their Terms of Service and User Agreement.

If you weren't referring to their policies, either directly or indirectly, then perhaps I did not understand your message becuase it makes no sense at all.

SAFX

But could you log in to find out what type of transaction is shown? (Or has it been too long ago for you to find it easily?)

The transaction info is irrelevant. The purpose of my response to this post is that I agree with dannyboy2006 in that PayPal can drive a person mad.

The fact of the matter is this: PayPal is great for casual use, but as soon as your account balance increases at an unusual rate, their fraud protection system kicks in and limits your account. If you are lucky, PayPal will unlock your account only after you fax to them all documents they request. In my case, they requested my drivers license, Passport, and a utility bill with my current address. I am surprised they did not request my fingerprints. My account was unrestricted after 3 days. Others are not so lucky even after submitting documents for verification. I have read many reports on PayPalSucks.com regarding individuals whose accounts and funds have been frozen for weeks, even months! PayPal takes their sweet old time resolving issues for their customers while funds are frozen, and they have good reason to: Your money collects interest while it is frozen by PayPal, and PayPal keeps profit from interest for themselves. We are taking about millions of dollares collected by this company from legitimate businesses who got caught up in their fraud protection.

Basically, for all the fraud comitted on PayPal, legitimate buyers and sellers pay the price. Period! And this is why so many people have issues with them. This type of practice is common in other industries, such as Health Care and Insurance. But unlike those industries, you do not risk considerable financial loses and loss of business based on fraud. We all pay higher premiums for health care and insurance fraud, yes, but it does not mean we can't go to the bank and go on with our daily lives.

SAFX

Uh, paypal has a very long rapsheet of doing this same thing.
I'll take his word for it, you can go play detective.

To some degree, yes. No real need to play detective here. I'm sure that you have also noted the many threads (by one and two-hit-wonders) that begin with..."_______ processor ruined my business." The honest claims tend to link to actual items and generally end up in the misunderstanding category. Others, like the thread starter here, say things like:

Locked out as they required more information.
Things is they are questioning the athenticity of goods and don't link to anything or really explain the situation in great detail. Considering this all took place over the holidays, I'm guessing there isn't much any processor could do, including PayPal.

The transaction info is irrelevant.

Is it? I was fairly certain that PayPal would not take money directly from your bank account without your authorization for that specific transaction. I was wondering whether you would prove me wrong, or if maybe you just misunderstood the way the funds were held (e.g. a Temporary Hold on funds in your balance, or a cancelled bank transfer, or an amount added to your next authorized payment to recover a negative balance).

Your money collects interest while it is frozen by PayPal, and PayPal keeps profit from interest for themselves.

That is not true.

From section 2.1 of the US version of the PayPal User Agreement :

You agree that you will not receive interest or other earnings on the funds that PayPal handles as your agent. PayPal will also not receive interest on those funds, but may receive a reduction in fees or expenses charged for banking services by the banks that hold your funds.

PayPal makes its money by charging transaction fees. In fact, if a legitimate merchant's account is locked, PayPal is losing money too - however, PayPal must balance revenue and risk, and has processes designed to limit risks when it cannot determine whether a merchant is legitimate.

im sure there will be other payment method in years to come..

Im sure there will be better solultion in years to come... Any news on google merchat account?

For those of you in the UK, if PayPal lock funds etc. why not take action and contact the FSA which is the regulator?

Complain to them about PayPal and get the government and proper officials involved.

Don't leave it to PayPal to fix things, take the matter seriously and show them the consumer has the power to make a difference.

FYI: http://fsa.gov.uk

I've had problems with PayPal where they locked my account because I was ill and couldn't complete a clients project and didn't have fund in account to cover refund. The fools blocked my Credit Card so I couldn't even add new funds to my account and had to give them bank account details. Well, now i've opened a new bank account and only put what I need on PayPal into that Bank Account.


Hmmmm, Netteller is becoming more popular now: http://www.netteller.com and they actually provide debit card:D I've just signed up

Rgds,
Chris

I don't believe I misunderstood your message. In your response you are referring to PayPal's "liability" based on fraudulent actions committed by buyers and sellers. PayPal is liable under these circumstances based on their Terms of Service and User Agreement.

If you weren't referring to their policies, either directly or indirectly, then perhaps I did not understand your message becuase it makes no sense at all.

SAFXSorry but what I was referring to was their Pre-Selling Products Policy (http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside&ed=presale_list). But most MAPs will want to make sure that you can live up to your end of the bargain when selling items.

I see many stories bout paypal being bad and accounts locked and or lost.


We have been using them for 2 years now and been quite happy. We pay less then 1.6% compared to many Merchant companies we have looked at both based here in Canada and in the USA as well.

We have never had our account locked and any time we had problems we called our dedicated accounts manager and she helped us in fixing the problem. Id recommend that if you do use paypal for anything business related try and see if you can get a dedicated accounts manager. Makes life so much easier.

Most of the stories here and at paypalsucks aren't from legitimate users, they're from users who have attempted to violate paypal's rules in one way or the other here, or pose a greater risk to the paypal business.

What you fail to understand is that paypal has every bit of a right to hold your funds for up to 6 months. You gave them that right when you signed up. They can lock you out for violating the rules, and you have no choice but wait the 6 months for your money. This is to cover their tail ends here, because they end up losing the money if the end user sends a chargeback and there's no money in your account to cover it.

Think it's not possible? It is. Countless individuals have tried to defraud the system using paypal, etc. Why? Because it's simple to do.

Paypal is merely limiting their risk here. Do they have a right to do so? Every bit as much as you as a business owner do. They're holding your funds, they even told you how to get them out of holding, now it's up to you to do the legwork. How is this even remotely paypal's fault? Hrrm?

I've been using paypal for 6 years now, never once have I had any major issues with them, in fact, I prefer paypal on most transactions, because it beats the hell out of waiting 3 days to get to my account. I can simply walk across the street to the ATM and take money out through my card, or let it sit there in my account.

That's not saying paypal has always given me the answer I wanted, but in all cases, paypal has stood by their TOS and in ALL cases, they've acted professionally.


Any time you run something like this, you're taking a very huge risk. When it comes to minimizing that risk, of course, they're going to do everything in their power to do so. From requiring paperwork to verifying that things are properly shipped, that's all part of their job, as ultimately, they're responsible not only for YOUR money but for the money of the large number of paypal customers as well.

In your case, it's 100% warranted to put a hold on this kind of funds, especially if you're asking a decent sized dollar amount for the items in question. Protection is the name of the game, and they do it very very well.

I see many stories bout paypal being bad and accounts locked and or lost.


We have been using them for 2 years now and been quite happy. We pay less then 1.6% compared to many Merchant companies we have looked at both based here in Canada and in the USA as well.

We have never had our account locked and any time we had problems we called our dedicated accounts manager and she helped us in fixing the problem. Id recommend that if you do use paypal for anything business related try and see if you can get a dedicated accounts manager. Makes life so much easier.

PayPal does not offer rates as low as 1.6%, at least not according to the rates posted at PayPal.com.

SAFX

PayPal does not offer rates as low as 1.6%, at least not according to the rates posted at PayPal.com.

SAFX
Would be a hell of a way to attract more business to 'em though :P

Most of the stories here and at paypalsucks aren't from legitimate users, they're from users who have attempted to violate paypal's rules in one way or the other ...

I had a business account with PayPal for two years. It was smooth sailing and my business grew and I had no complaints. But then I had a chargeback and in spite of all the reassuring e-mails from PayPal about how they were going to help resolve it, they didn't do anything. (The buyer didn't recognize the charge on their statement - partly my fault for not going into preferences to change that setting :crap: )

(PayPal e-mail) It is PayPal's standard practice to dispute wrongful chargebacks. One of the benefits of using PayPal is that our team of chargeback specialists will gather the necessary information from you and work with the card issuer until the chargeback is resolved.

After PayPal discovered it was for a non-tangible item they just decided not to fight it and told me I had lost in spite of their best efforts. All my e-mails to them after that just resulted in copy and paste type responses. I felt so betrayed I closed my account.

I liked PayPal and had no problems whatsoever for two years but once I did have a problem I found out that their customer support is virtually nonexistent. Before I closed my account I tried to find ways to get more information about or have more control over payment options (find out whether buyer paid by credit card, buyer's country, etc.) and I e-mailed support for answers to questions about that and again found that customer support at PayPal just is totally pathetic! (After I closed my account they sent me an 800 number - who knows maybe they're trying to improve.)

Most of the stories here and at paypalsucks aren't from legitimate users, they're from users who have attempted to violate paypal's rules in one way or the other here, or pose a greater risk to the paypal business.

Not necessarily. Although I can't verify the truth behind the stories at PayPalSucks.com, many members who had their accounts locked did not violate the TOS. Keep in mind that PayPal has their own proprietary fraud detection software. The system is based on rules, and if the rules are broken, the account is limited in one way or another, and this has nothing to do with their TOS or US. My ebay business is 100% legitimate and we have been in good standing on ebay and PayPal for 5 years. Our account was locked simply because our account balance grew too fast according to their fraud protection rules. We never violate their TOS or US.

I read a story of a guy whose account was locked because he withdrew funds too fast! This case is not surprising either, but in no way did the member vioate the TOS or US.

I will probably continue using them because most ebay buyers will walk away from a purchase if a seller does not accept PayPal. Buyers are under the impression that PayPal protects them from ALL cases of seller fraud. This, of course, is not true. Read this story...

http://www.channelcincinnati.com/technology/2733419/detail.html

SAFX

Not necessarily. Although I can't verify the truth behind the stories at PayPalSucks.com, many members who had their accounts locked did not violate the TOS. You are only hearing one side of a story and there are three sides to every story.

I read a story of a guy whose account was locked because he withdrew funds too fast

Depending upon the AMOUNT Of funds, this is entirely possible.
An example:
person purchases something for $5k , sends money to individual via paypal (stupid idea, but ok)
Person receiving money immediately withdraws the full amount to their bank account.
PP is liable for that $5k, so they stop the transfer and notify the user that their account has been limited because of this.

Stupid? Ridiculous? No, it's called common sense. Paypal has a liability for that money , and if it's not in the account when the user does a chargeback, duuuh, it's got to be replaced by SOMEONE. In this case, paypal.

Since paypal will accept transactions up to (I believe) $10k, and they're NOT a financial institution, they're not insured by the federal government against losses. This means that they're going to seriously look into accounts that do the above action repeatedly, for their OWN interest, and that of their customers. It'd be negligent not to!


Buyers are under the impression that PayPal protects them from ALL cases of seller fraud. This, of course, is not true.

Of course it's not true. All you have to do is offer a fraudulent service , and get people to pay you that way. Guess what? You're screwed if you're the buyer!!! You have no recourse because paypal will never ever refund any monies on services. I've had 'em try a few times (not that I am a fraudulent seller, but from individuals who have attempted fraudulent chargebacks), until I pointed out that their TOS does not cover services against this liability, as they shouldn't.

Paypal DOES however, offer an additional layer of protection here. Instead fo just going to your bank, you can go to paypal, and if THEY deny the claim, go to your bank.

Of course the example listed there works well, too. Paypal won't help you two bits worth if you've received the package. THAT is when you go to the bank.

Paypal isn't a bank, they're a processing corporation, and barely one of those. The idea here is that individuals should always use paypal as a second option, not a first, whenever available. Bank CC processing should be first. Of course, if you're like most , and wnat to store your info in paypal and use it out that way, then that's a risk you're going to have to take. It sucks, but that is what happens when you use 3rd party solutions like that, and buy "envelopes" online ;)

Really good insight linux-tech didnt look at it from that avenue before.

We have beat this topic to death :-)

Everyone makes good points, but I'm tired and I just want to go to bed, goodnight,

SAFX