Hello

Starting a reseller hosting business could be the best choice for most of those who are interested in starting a hosting business. It does not need much experience and knowledge as starting with a dedicated server.

A newbie may think it is always easier to manage a reseller hosting business but my experience shows that it will become very hard when your websites go over 50-70 websites.

I want to discuss one of the most important problems a reseller may encounter that is moving websites between different reseller account providers and worse between different operating systems and control panels. Specially if websites use databases, mailing lists, email accounts, cgi scripts and so on.

Sometimes you do not have any way but to move your websites. You will need to maintain several nameservers, domain names, accounts, customers etc.

If we consider Linux as our base operating system we have a lot of problems when we want to move websites from one CP to another.

For example take in mind if you are to move from CPanel to ensim :mad: and your accounts use multiple databases, email accounts etc.

Even moving from one WHM/CPanel server to a different provider with the same WHM/CPanel is not easy (we assume those providers will not be able or want to cooperate on moving websites using WHM's new mass move capability).

Let's see the simple senario and you will be able to guess how frusturating will be if you want to move from one CP to another.


You must tar.gz each site (one by one) , go to new host, create a new account with the same user name (if it is used before then you need to work for hours if user has scripts etc in his account) , then extract tar.gz in new account.

After this you need to dump each MySQL account one by one, then go to new host (and pray that second host has SSH access on accounts or you need to use a custom script to read dump files into MySQL) , transfer them to second host and read them into MySQL .

You have not finished yet, you must go into each domain name panel and change DNS servers (you have registered two DNS servers to be able to move sites one by one as it needs about 40-80 hours of work to move those 70-80 websites) .

If someone has registered his domain name with another person you must ask him (and describe why, when, how, ..........) to change DNS servers.

If you have ecommerce hosting then all SSL certificates need hours of mailing and work.

If you have registered your nameservers with evil NETSOL you must need some work again.


You see a reseller is exactly something like a homeless :( :)

Now the question is that what strategic decisions and choices will make your life easier. Would you please describe what you will do to be able to go those steps easier. Your CP choice? etc. ?

Would you please submit your ideas, opinions etc so that others can use your experiences?

Thank you,
Mac

A lot of reseller are too quick to jump ship, choose your reseller provider carefully, i have seen many resellers who move every time there reseller provider has a problem? Whats the point, if you just stay with the same person the chances are that the wont have the same problem again.

Alan, I am not interested to mention names, etc.

but things change with reseller providers. A host known for its good uptime may become a host known for his good down times. A host with good prices may become very expensive very soon.

When you signup you are placed on a server with loads under .5 but soon you see they have placed 30 resellers on your server and load is over 2-3 most of the time and rising.

If you be the reseller which encounters this what you may do? Stay and burn your customers (which you have promissed a quality service for them?)

For example let's assume your host promisses 99.9% uptime but every month you have a say 7 housrs down time? will you stay and burn your customers?

I have lost 12 customers this week for a down time of 30 hours during this month and something about 10 hours about 1.5 months ago?

You think I must stay ? Or try to change my bad situation? :)

Providers may put more and more resellers and websites on a server so that you can not continue staying on the server. do you agree this?

At least you are not a reseller and may lease a new server and copy all websites using WHM easily in 3-5 hours :) but you must understand resellers better as you are concerned about them.

Regards,
Mac

What im trying to say is if a host has a problem, which causes down time, and then they sort the problem, is there any point in moving?

No, If you think problems are temporary then moving is not logical.

But if you see down times continue, problems are not solved, host does not know himself responsible or does not find solutions to solve the problem, host changes TOS so that it is not what used to be, host does not pay attention to quality of service (he sells accounts to resellers and quality is resellers responsibility) , support tickets are answered with more and more delays, etc then you have no way but to move.

I must admit that none of these are the case with you apparantly :)

I do reselling as I do not have the time to manage a server myself (though I manage a lot of servers , mostly 8 CPU Compaq servers with 12 SCSI drives at my full time job).

But I have worked about 8-10 hours for the last 6-7 days on my reselling business and if this continues It would be better to either consider a dedicated or close the business :)


Regards,
Mac

Well, Alan's going to shoot me *straps on kevlar body armor* but it seems to me, Mac, that if you have the expertise to manage a server, then you shouldn't be dealing with the retail market.

You should probably get a dedicated and then sell reseller accounts. You would probably have a larger income per hour spent on your "side" business.

Or maybe I'm missing something...

Originally posted by 4solutions
Or maybe I'm missing something...

I am administrator of a bank and I am in office for 10 hours a day :)

Mac

Originally posted by sarmadys
I am administrator of a bank and I am in office for 10 hours a day :) Mac There's your problem... :D

Seriously, I have two brothers who are high up in different banks and they both agree that the banking business is not what it used to be. They're both ready to bail. If they could just find another Enron... ;)

Your best bet is to confront the host on the problems, ask for the causes, what they intend to do in future, and questions along those lines. If you think their contingency plans will prevent similar issues from occurring in future, they were honest about their problems, and you think they are taking steps to improve things, then I would be inclined to give them a second chance.

If they do change the TOS, blame other people, do not respond to issues and do not pay attention to the quality of service, then it may be time to move.

I agree with Alan's point though, generally expect a host to respond much quicker to a problem they have experienced in the past.

Regards
Matt

sarmadys,

If you have 50-70 paying customers, maybe it is time for you to move a dedicated server? If you don't have time to manage the server, a lot of hosts that sell dedicated servers also offer managing it for an additional cost. This way, it will be like being a reseller, but on your own server.

(Less middle men = Less things that can go wrong)

Saeed,

But managed servers are too expensive for under 100 websites.

An average server with 2 hard drives (for backup) and a quality bandwidth and a suitable CP is something about $450/month.

Isn'y it?

Mac

Originally posted by sarmadys
An average server with 2 hard drives (for backup) and a quality bandwidth and a suitable CP is something about $450/month.

Isn'y it?

Well, it depends. If you get a server with multihomed bandwidth, you will still have quality but for a much lower cost. For example, eServers.biz has an offer now where you pay for the first 2 months ($139/mo) and you get the following 3 months for free. This deal comes with 300GB bandwidth, unlimited Ensim, 512mb ram, etc, etc. You can add an extra 40GB Hd for $125 one time fee. There are alot of other companies offering similair packages, you should do a research and find a good managed dedicated provider that suits your exact needs (including your budget).

Originally posted by (SH)Saeed
For example, eServers.biz has an offer now where you pay for the first 2 months ($139/mo) and you get the following 3 months for free. This deal comes with 300GB bandwidth, unlimited Ensim, 512mb ram, etc, etc.Hmmm, I could be wrong,
but I don't think that price is for a managed server...

Hello,

I agree as a reseller, moving your clients to a new Host can be a hassle especially if you have some 50~100 clients.

Although you can do it manually, it will be tedious and time consuming as sarmadys mentioned . I would suggest the following for the benefit of resellers.

1) Check with your new Host whether they can help you to move it for you(pay them if you need to) . That's the easiest and lessen the burden and worries to do it yourself.

2) Say if you provide your clients Cpanel, then is only natural to also find a new Host that offer it so your clients will not be have to learn a new Control panel and some of them may be displeased with it.

3) Say that you found a new Host to do the transfer for you. Then you may have to inform all your clients of the changes of new nameservers and the reason that you are moving them to a new server with better facilities(Tell a white lie if you need to) but allow a grace period of one month to totally complete the transition of your clients to the new server.


4)Don't inform the losing Host anything until you are sure that everything is in order before cancelling your account as you don't want any disruption/retaliation just in case and at all times keep in good term with the losing Host "Don't burnt your bridges" as they say.

Hehe :) That's all I can think of for now, perhaps some someone can also chip in to tell of their experience and better methods to do a complete transfer of clients files and data to a new Host.

I would like to know too, if there's an easier way to do it.


Regards

rubbish...

it's all about research, research, research...

Our domain has gone from a single user account, to reseller, to dedicated servers over the past two years, and have never regretted a single decision bar one (a week at ADDR as an end user a long time back).

You just need to look, and look, and look again, read a lot, gauge opinion, and speak to the people upstream from you.

As an end user you can jump about as much as you like, but once you start to resell, or run a box or two, there's more than just yourself to consider. If you had a business in any other field you'd need your head read for not researching - and truth be told, it probably more important in this industry than most others.

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=NAC-NETBLK04,216.118.64.0,216.118.127.255

and there it is, in black and white.

Greg Moore

Oh that's S-H-I-T and someone is talking "rubbish" when they don't know what they are talking about when it concerns resellers.

Have a look at this thread

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=46964

Can you blame the reseller from moving to a new Host when they find their clients dropping out one by one???

My apologies. I guess 12 months as a reseller, making enough of a success of it to move up to dedicated servers didn't teach us anything about business.

I do see what you're talking about though. Even if it doesn't seem so, I am on your side here. Maybe there's some luck involved, but I'm not a big believer in luck when it comes to choosing a base of operation.

This is only my personal opinion here, as I've no real life experience with bulk reselling plans, but it does seem to be a flaw in the model as it's reliant on providing a lot of open country (from a host's point of view) to begin with, that's going to be slowly filled from within at a later date. With the older single discount plan system it allows you to just put on a new server when you fill a box, as you go.

When we got started there were cheaper places to buy than where we did, but figured that quality would cost. In hindsight this turned out to be a good rule to live by. Now we're leasing boxes at a higher rate than the 'specials' offered around here every day, and again, it's proving to be worth every dime.

Now everyone is welcome to do business however they see fit. We did it our way, and it's worked out quite nicely. No moving, no troubled waters. When we feel it's time we'll be starting our own reseller plan, but there's no rush, and everything will be weighed and considered for a long time beforehand. This slow approach might not break any records for growth, but we have a loyal band of customers, some of which have been there since the beginning. (In fact our first ever customer is still with us from our reseller days).

Greg Moore

Hi akashik,

Apologies accepted, I hope I didn't sound a bit harsh. I am very concern as to resellers problems just as you. I have a server, a vds and also 2 reseller accounts (I have my reasons for having reseller accounts even though I have my own server) and I been down the road many times if you want to ask me about reseller accounts . Although WHT is an excellent place, to any Host out there, "If you don't take care of you customers, somebody else will"

My apologies to you akashik

Have a nice day.

Regards

I strongly agree to every single word of Greg. A rarely event ;)
Now I don't have to feel silly anymore everytime I see dedicated servers for $100 and paying much more for my servers :)
Maybe a bit OT because it's not about resellers, but if you do the math for some dedicated offers: *shudder*

Oh Greg,

I am honored to be in the list albeit it shows 1 day since last reboot! That's my reseller space with Alan where valai.net is currently hosted

My new server with peak-10.com thru focalhosting has been up for 82 days as of today 100% of the time

Please see:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/hosted?netname=P10-4281-5F00-24,66.129.95.0,66.129.95.255

and thanks for the chance to brag a little! ;)

And I agree with Walter; I dont regret paying 130$ for 35GB of bandwidth with no control panel

Cheers
Balaji

PS: I dont know why netcraft shows 75 days; the other site miragesolutions.com is a reseller of mine on the new server

MotleyFool and Akashik

Do you use plesk? How do you do such high server uptime?

And you offer uptime guarantee to your users?

no we use cpanel over here.

As for uptime? Just keep the eyes open and watch like a hawk :)

Seriously though a lot of it comes back to what I've been saying. Paying a little bit more for basic hardware and DC. Goes a long way towards your peace of mind.

Greg Moore

sarmadys,

My hosting is somewhat radical! :)

I dont use any control panel except qmailadmin [for managing emails, forwarders etc.,] and I also dont allow CGI scripts

I watch my server load atleast 12-20 times a day and watch my traffic almost all the time I am awake. If I suddenly find spikes in the MRTG graphs , I immediately take a look at the logs - but I attribute my uptime to 3 things:

1. FreeBSD

2. Quality hardware

3. Selective acceptance of clients

and ofcourse Alex Llera of focalhosting.com who has given me [and continues to give] support beyond all my expectations! :)

Cheers
Balaji

Akashik,

Great to here that someone is running a server with cpanel for such a long time without problem :) This is a sample for those people that tell "we restart the server each week to avoid problems !" I have heared this from two different cpanel hosting companies.


MotleyFool,

I am interested to know how do you offer reseller accounts without a CP? and I also think Free BSD seems to be more stable than linux.

I strongly agree with you about quality hardware and selection of clients. Its apparent that these are reasons for high uptime on your servers.

Regards,
Mac

sarmadys,

I dont offer hosting reseller plans- only email reseller plans and for this qmailadmin is a very good tool

Cheers

Balaji

Hi,
Regardless of why and when a reseller might move, anyone has the answer to the initial question of sarmadys?
I face the same problem too!!
supposing that the new host would help, but not the loosing one!!
Thanx

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
What im trying to say is if a host has a problem, which causes down time, and then they sort the problem, is there any point in moving?
Alan,
I read a lot of good postings about your service, I didn't try yet!
My question is, what if the problem is not resolved, what do you suggest to make the reseller life easier?
I mean, almost everything is created by CPANEL and WHM, so the permissions are there without root access. Then their should be a way for a script to collect these information back, tar-zip them, and go to another host where another script would do the opposite. Any suggestions?
I suggest that these scripts be added to WHM!
Thanx for the feesdback

Im going to ask nick if he can put the cpanel move script as part of the reseller area, that would be cool.

Thanx,
That would be great for resellers