almost all hosting companies offer unlimited accounts for a reseller plan.
my hosting company also offer me this.. but just they mail me ...

however the system shows you as having 132 accounts on the server. Even if these accounts are relatively low usage, they do still affect the speed of the server for everyone else using it, this means we can't put as many users on it.

At this stage I am going to have to cap your current account to prevent any more accounts being created, and you will have to purchase another unit which includes 100 accounts, 5GB space, and 50GB transfer at £xx/month if you wish to host any more domains.

is this fair?

Check the TOS or AUP of your service provider. There should be some language in there about when this threshold occurs.

"Even if these accounts are relatively low usage, they do still affect the speed of the server for everyone else using it, this means we can't put as many users on it."

What a load of rubbish. Check the TOS carefully for any dodgy wording.

Sounds like crap to me, not fair at all. Its the old I will give you this forever then after you sign up they change the plan trick.

yes, checking again their TOS can help. However, it sounds to me a bit overselling thing here. It's happening when you create more accounts on their server, and make it more crowded. Is it still stable or having trouble recently?

132 accounts is a lot for one reseller even if they are low usage. This is why web hosts should not offer unlimited domains.

In 132 account mostly account not using space more then 5MB.
When I signup with him (8 months back) I clear him that I need to compete my local market.
That company one of the famous and big UK company. Also I signup with him after seeing a ad in WHT. I am searching for that ad. And soon I post my reviews about that company so new customers be carefull.

I agree with you. That is a very unfair buiness practice.

I klnow that the more accounts, the more system resources will be used. The reason is that now you have more email address, ftp users, and so on. But the company should have planned ahead for this and if that cannot fullfill that promise of "Unlimited Accounts" then they should not offer that.

This will be called as Cheating !!

If they told you unlimited accnts then they should allow you to create 1000 accnts or 10,000 accnts or more !!

Yeah thats really unfair, false advertising.

Did you check their TOS? If it says unlimited they cant limit your resources...

132 accounts is a lot for one reseller even if they are low usage. This is why web hosts should not offer unlimited domains.
Or if you allow unlimited domains, don't enabled overselling.

eglim, if they promised you unlimited domains, but apply a cap to your number of domains, then they're not delivering what they promised. They promote the unlimited domain model, but choke when someone actually pushes through the 100 domain mark. Check their fine print in their TOS.

They not have any TOS link in site. They also not replying my mails. I am thinking to move. After that I will told you all about that company with links of their offers.
So you aware next about that company.

Hmm a site without TOS and u went with them thats just not sensible thing to do .

but which company are we talking about here?

Nearly all unlimited resellers do this. Be careful about it, read their TOS and AUP then ask questions about it as well.

let me move accounts from them first then will tell you all.

Hello,

I thought I'd chime in here because the host that the reseller is referring to, is ourselves.

I'll admit it seems wrong to "cap" a customer, however, the resource usage (CPU/memory/etc) generated by all of these accounts is more than what is allowed by our TOS for the account size. Rather than cut the customer off or force them to upgrade, I'm willing to be a little more fair here, and simply cap the customer, so no more accounts can be created.

We don't oversell servers, the server itself has under 500 accounts, approx 150 of which belong to the reseller. Resource usage costs us money if we're able to sustain quality service and good uptime, we have to pass this on to the customer.

I think I am being perfectly fair here,

Dan

almost all hosting companies offer unlimited accounts for a reseller plan.
my hosting company also offer me this.. but just they mail me ...

is this fair?

That is not only unfair, it's bad business practise and can be considered customer defrauding.

We have a reseller account with 400+ domains and we've been hosting them for over 3 years, no issue.

It all depends on the overselling of the server.

Hello,

I thought I'd chime in here because the host that the reseller is referring to, is ourselves.

I'll admit it seems wrong to "cap" a customer, however, the resource usage (CPU/memory/etc) generated by all of these accounts is more than what is allowed by our TOS for the account size. Rather than cut the customer off or force them to upgrade, I'm willing to be a little more fair here, and simply cap the customer, so no more accounts can be created.

We don't oversell servers, the server itself has under 500 accounts, approx 150 of which belong to the reseller. Resource usage costs us money if we're able to sustain quality service and good uptime, we have to pass this on to the customer.

I think I am being perfectly fair here,

Dan

First of all here is the link...
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=332521

You can see there UNLIMITED ACCOUNTS. From Dan no one mention that UNLIMITED ACCOUNTS mean 100 accounts. And If Dan think unlimited accounts mean 100 accounts, how I create extra 32 accounts. Why he not limit me when I signup.

I am talking with several hosting companies here for move and clear what mean about unlimited they say .. Only limit is you space and BW.

About Server, really great UPTIME, only one all day downtime I face but that time when I contact Dan he reply me that because of CPanel Staff.

But have many problems in server like Frontpage Extensions not work.
Many time in a week this error "Unknown License File Version" come when we try for Cpanel. Some other problems too....

About Support, I think no need to talk about support, because there are no support. First six months great support Dan personally care customers, but after that I think Dan busy more and more with his new customers and he not care old customers (not sure he giving to support to new server or not). Only few mails reply come. In it If I mail 4 questions Dan answers 2 questions and thats answers also uncompleted.

I clear Dan that I not want to left you, because its a big tension to find out new company and then move accounts to new company, really its a big waste of time and also not know how new company is... BUT its seem he want I move.. I also have some months remaining of my session (I pay for 6 month)

if I wrong in some where Dan can catch me here....

Hi,

Sorry I don't think I made myself very clear there. It really doesn't bother me if a reseller has 1000's of domains, it's not the precence of the domains that causes problems, it's the CPU and Memory utilisation issues caused by busy sites. When sites become busy they cause issues for other users on the server. Unfortunately this is not something that can be limited such as disk space or bandwidth.

Rather than forcing you to upgrade, suspending your account, or asking you to leave, I simply capped your account to prevent any more domains being added, and was prepared to live with the slightly above normal resource usage.

For the record, and those of you who seem to think we have an overselling problem - I will tell you that there are just 8 resellers on this server and stats are as follows - I think you'll agree this server is very low loaded, This is the way we run our business, and will continue to do so.
root@wsu06 [~]# uptime
23:33:36 up 177 days, 7:25, 1 user, load average: 1.82, 1.69, 1.64

Rather than waste more time here, I'm prepared to lift the limit on your account providing your system resource usage does not increase much more. Reseller accounts may offer unlimited domains, but that doesn't entitle you to usage of the entire server, this is where dedicated servers come in :).

Dan

177 days uptime....I take it you don't like doing kernel updates and so on then :)

Also, load is useless without at least the number of CPUs ;)

It's a tricky call and I agree with your actions. The vital thing is to clearly explain everything because the webhosting business is a detailed one and not everyone will understand the precise details of the situations they find themselves in :)

. . . I think I am being perfectly fair here
I think you might need to stop promoting "Unlimited Domains", if you don't have the infastructure to deliver that. You can't promote unlimited domains, and then when a client hits a domain level that you're uncomfortable with, cap their account. That's not being "perfectly fair".

You might want to consider placing domain number limits on your reseller accounts. That was something I did back with httpme, and the result was desired.

Dan,

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting you're being underhanded or anything. You do have your client's best interests at heart, by keeping the servers humming along. I'm just suggesting you might want to steer away from the unlimited domain market, and promote reseller accounts with domain number limits.

From my experience in this section of the market - unlimited domain + overselling enabled = recipe for trouble. You can do the unlimited domain model safely, so long as you don't allow resellers to oversell. If you do allow them to oversell, cap their reseller account's domain number limits.

Just my $0.02. :)

177 days uptime....I take it you don't like doing kernel updates and so on then :)

What makes you think it might have needed updating? ;) If I remember rightly that machine is an Opteron 242 as you were asking about CPU (will have to check that).

Aussie Bob, I've been working on the capped domains model since the start of this year because this isn't the first customer like this that I've come across, and it's definately a requirement.

I would have thought anyone with half a clue would realise that unlimited doesn't mean unlimited, it just means "not a fixed limit". The limit is set by other things, some of which can easily be stated up front like disk space and bandwidth, and some of which can't.

It's all about marketing. There is no such thing as truth in advertising. Everyone tries to stretch the truth a bit, to make it seem like a better deal, so the next competitor has to stretch it a bit further. If host X offers unlimited domains, host Y has to also or they will lose sales. People just need to be realistic about what "unlimited" means in this context.

The account I'm on has unlimited domains. I doubt if I'll ever need more than 10 I practise. I just hope my host takes the same responsible attitude as Dan to ensure that service doesn't suffer, instead of pandering to people who still believe there's such a thing as a free lunch.

I think the issue here is with this quote (apparently) sent to the OP;

"however the system shows you as having 132 accounts on the server. Even if these accounts are relatively low usage, they do still affect the speed of the server for everyone else using it, this means we can't put as many users on it.

At this stage I am going to have to cap your current account to prevent any more accounts being created, and you will have to purchase another unit which includes 100 accounts, 5GB space, and 50GB transfer at £xx/month if you wish to host any more domains."

What is written above does not correspond to what Dan wrote above. If Dan would clarify then it'll help with the issue, i'm sure.

what my webhost told me when one of their server become too full, was here is another server. any new accounts you must put on new box. and space b/w are totaled for both boxed for my account... THAT is the fair thing to do....


Xau