Hey folks.

I run a little side business in hosting and selling computers. The issue which I always have to worry about, is that I have a full-time job for an IT services company. This company (which I will leave unnamed) has strict business conduct guidelines that state it would be a conflict of interest for employees to run any sort of computer/internet businesses on the side. I wonder how many other people here are in similar situations, where they need to be a little extra careful or discreet in how they go about their business so the "mother" company doesn't catch wind of it.

This particular company makes millions of dollars, and so it pisses me off a bit that they have to be so particular (ie. selfishly greedy) about us doing little business ventures on the side to compliment our income. I know alot of people probably do work for IT companies and run businesses on the side, and it would be interesting to hear from you guys as I think we share this issue in common.

Thanks.

If it is against your contract with the company, it is clearly a conflict of interest and you are violating that agreement. You could be held liable for damages in a court of law, so just be honest! Choose... a good job... or your own company. Simple, no question about it.

same with me,but i don't care,because if they fire me,what i earn with my webhost is enought to live,

If it is against your contract with the company, it is clearly a conflict of interest and you are violating that agreement. You could be held liable for damages in a court of law, so just be honest! Choose... a good job... or your own company. Simple, no question about it.

I hear what you are saying. But it's not a contract per se which I "signed". I have not signed any exclusive clause or agreements stating I can't run my own business on my personal time. It's just their business guidelines, which is a document subject to changes whenever they feel like it. This is why I am willing to challenge them on that, as I feel it imposes on my "freedoms" (heh, like everyone citizen of the democratic world likes to say!).

Okay, with that said I understand where you're coming from a bit more, but if they caught you it would still be ground for dismissal. There is also the issue of ethics... morally, is it the right thing to do?

Contract or not, if your full time job says no IT related companies then they so no IT related companies. Bottom line is pick, do you want your full time job? Or your part time job?

OK guys, thanks for your input, but easy already you nailed me to the cross! Can I get some salt water please? I didn't start this thread to be lectured about ethics and morals :) Don't get me wrong, I value your comments but it's not really what I came here for if you catch my drift. I was just wanting to hear some comments from other people in similar situations like me. Thanks.

I'd hazard a guess that this is how a lot of hosts started out in the first place. Not many people have the spare capital to quit their day job straight away.

Hi there,

Personally, I'd never put myself in this position. How can you possibly do a good job for both when you should be looking out for the interests of both? I would never have another job while in active development of my software, but if I absolutely had to I'd definitely take something in a completely different industry.

Good luck

Hey folks.

I run a little side business in hosting and selling computers. The issue which I always have to worry about, is that I have a full-time job for an IT services company. This company (which I will leave unnamed) has strict business conduct guidelines that state it would be a conflict of interest for employees to run any sort of computer/internet businesses on the side. I wonder how many other people here are in similar situations, where they need to be a little extra careful or discreet in how they go about their business so the "mother" company doesn't catch wind of it.

This particular company makes millions of dollars, and so it pisses me off a bit that they have to be so particular (ie. selfishly greedy) about us doing little business ventures on the side to compliment our income. I know alot of people probably do work for IT companies and run businesses on the side, and it would be interesting to hear from you guys as I think we share this issue in common.

Thanks.


execuse me but Do not compete is very common in IT employment.

Microsoft and Google just have a fight because one of Microsoft researcher just left Microsoft and go to Google.

if you look at the the view point of your employer...let see, it cost them money to train you either by letting you do the job (you learn something on the job, no?) or let you have access to their resource. of course they don't want you to take the knowledges and compete with them either directly or indirectly.

that just the way it is. no more and no less.

Ummm.. Microsoft employee going to work at Google... different scenario...

In my case, I am talking about running my own business. I am not competing head-on for anything.

At my day job, I am highly valued and I do excellent work. But outside of work, I'm going to do what I want to do. If I want to run a small part time operation to fix computers or sell some design/hosting services, that's my business. I am not doing this to put my employer out of business, nor will anything I do put them out of business. I am doing it because I want to make some extra money to compliment my income. If I want to run a small business, what *legal* right does my employer have to dictate what I can and can't do on my own time?

Try to think of it if you were in the shoes of an employee working for another company. I think you and some others might be looking at it from a perspective of you as the employer... of course you wouldn't want someone to work for your competitor.

But the situation is slightly different. I am not working for GM, and getting a part-time job at Chrysler. I am working for one company, and doing my own freelance work on the side. Slightly different... I ain't going to a "competitor".

Alot of the big IT companies are pretty restrictive in that they expect you to not do *anything* in that field. Thats a pretty big slap there -- telling me basically since I work for this company, I can't do anything in computer sales, services, hosting, repair, development.. you f'g name it, cause we do it you can't. I think that's pure BS.

Sorry, but I am willing to bet there are *MANY* people in these forums in exactly this situatation. A lot of the talent and know-how out there also comes from people who have so called "day jobs", so give me a break.

Starsky, remember that the responses you get will depend on the person who replies. This forum is full of idealists. It doesn't matter if they have experience with the issue at hand or not, they have an opinion on it, and idealists cannot resist the urge to reply. That's just the passion that goes with it. Don't take it personally. ;)

Starksy, this is going on all over the place. All the freakin' time. IT is one of the most natural industries for it to happen because the internet is at our fingertips 24/7, and there are many niches within IT which can be explored with really little impact to the others that we are working with.

I have juggled this exact same situation many times, as has every person I have worked with in IT. Every one of them. Every guy and gal has had a little somethin'-or-other on the side at one time or another, and was scratching their heads/trying not to freak over what their IT day job would think. On one hand, non-competes are very common. On the other hand, those same non-competes are what create a ton of conflict in the workplace between employers and their employees.

I quickly learned that when pursuing contracts (instead of being employed by others, I pursue work contracts) a must-have is that the company absolutely cannot tell me that I cannot (a) run my own hosting/design business; and (b) dictate the other companies that I might also pursue contracts with. What little bit I do in my own hosting/design endeavors is not going to touch any company that I contract with. Furthermore, I am a professional, and my ethics and standards preclude me from even "going there" ... I would never consider courting a current contract's clients to my own business, that is just wrong. They hire me to do a job, and I do it. What I do outside of that time is absolutely none of their business (and forcing me to break my privacy policy to tell them what I do after I clock out, would actually be a breach of contract).

I don't dictate to my contracts whom they are allowed to do business with. I expect the same in return. I just don't tolerate it, and yes, I have taken it on the chin telling companies where to stick it when they overstepped their bounds. ;) My name's on the mortgage and the bills, not theirs. They can keep themselves busy running their own business and get their noses out of mine. ;)

You are simply stuck in the age-old perennial conflict between greedy capitalist corporate America, and the innovative self-directed entrepreneurial spirit. Welcome to the club. Seeing as you're stuck where you are, ride the wave and enjoy it while you're able to walk both sides of the road. Believe it or not, in many ways, you are lucky. :)

:) Bailey

You know, this is the same kind of conflict as

• Speeding -- you know you're only supposed to go 45, but you do 60 anyway, because you think it's safe and you're in a hurry. Well who said that's okay? ;)

• Underage drinking -- who hasn't done it? There's rules against it, just as valid as that sacred non-compete clause ;) but kids take it upon themselves to do it anyway because they want to. Well okay then.

• Having a pet even though your apartment lease says "no pets." *cough* Bless my landlords for never kicking me out. Bless my cat for always using the litter box and scratching posts. Bless my current landlord for allowing my cat to live here right properly -- no hiding her. *giggle*

We are all independent thinkers. Humans a free-will sorts of critters. We do things because we want to do them. Every choice carries a risk/rewards analysis with it... if the rewards outweigh the risks, we go for it.

So for all that are so quick to throw the stones... Pffffft... get out there and live a little. Life is not black and white, and companies with their contracts/guidelines are not God. At the end of the day, they are just pieces of paper, and we are still intelligent people who have the freedom to make our own choices. Even if they are contradictory to what the paper says.

OK, OK, I'll shut up now. :D :beer:

:) Bailey

Bailey, thanks for your input. I like the way you think ;) The part about a conflict between "greedy capitalist corporate America, and the innovative self-directed entrepreneurial spirit" is right on my friend. And they are probably the very same corporate capitalists that outsource American/Canadian IT jobs to offshore companies (ie. in India) to save that extra buck. I know the company I work for does it.

IANAL.

Starsky, if in your FT job you build and sell computers, then clearly you are in competition with your FT employer.

However if your role does not involve direct competion with your employer then there is less, or no issue.

eg. If you are a support desk type for an ISP, but you also build and sell computers there is no direct competion.

Depending on your corporate environment you may be able to casually run it by your manager to gauge the response.

Unless there is an explicit clause in your contract which states that you cannot work for another technology company (many higher level contracts have this) you may not have a problem.

Starsky, I think it's most important that you are okay with doing it. I tend to agree with you about any sort of "moral implications" of what you're doing -- that you are mostly justified in doing what benefits you.

I would imagine that you should consider what they would do if they find out... If it is a genuine conflict of interest, you may have signed something stating that any "proprietary information" you use will have repercussions. If they find out, are they going to fire you and have control of your company?

I have no idea whether your employer would mind if they found out what you're doing and I imagine (using that word a lot, so it should be fairly obvious this is mostly based on MAYBE's ;-) ) they mostly have that statement there so they can take action if they deem it necessary.

If I were in your position, I would probably try to keep myself shielded _legally_ from any problems that might occur. If it is a genuine conflict of interest, I would probably try to look for a job elsewhere until it is possible to become fully self employed.

I hope this answer is more what you're looking for. In general, I agree that companies should have some legal means of rectifying problems like this, but I believe the majority abuse what rights they have ;-).

Basically, just keep it quiet, and keep working your butt off at your FT job so they have every reason to look at you positively. :)

:) Bailey

Hey folks.

I run a little side business in hosting and selling computers. The issue which I always have to worry about, is that I have a full-time job for an IT services company. This company (which I will leave unnamed) has strict business conduct guidelines that state it would be a conflict of interest for employees to run any sort of computer/internet businesses on the side.
Then by operating your on the side business, you are violating their conduct guidelines, and risking being fired.

Basically, just keep it quiet, and keep working your butt off at your FT job so they have every reason to look at you positively. :)

:) Bailey

Sound advice :)

If you wanted to keep it quiet, you're already making your first mistakes.

I wonder what kind of internet usage logging they have at his co....

Moonlighting

I'd say a large majority of IT folks have fixed others computers for money. I get offers all the time. I started my hosting business (now sold) while working as a network admin for a large company. I would venture to say that most employers wouldn't care (as mine didn't), as long as you do a couple of things:

- don't do the side job on company time
- don't have the same function (if day job is to sell computers, don't have it for a side job).
- never talk about the side job at work. It's a bad subject - stay away. especially around primary job's clients

If you insist on competing with your company (number 2 above), you are asking for trouble. I'm not talking about morals here, but just common sense. Your employer is going to get mad and can you. If the risk of losing your job is acceptible (as it was to me when I had my hosting company) then go ahead.

oh yeah, I got busted by the primary company - I had all my billing and side job files on my corporate computer (get a USB stick if you must take the files to work!). They were too lazy to fire me, so just reprimanded me.

I ran the most efficient remote office, and had the happiest users, while running my own side business at the same time.

How did I get caught? - Two side clients started fighting about the ownership of a webpage. One client tried to strong arm me into giving up another's property - I said no. Client found out about my day job, and called them, trying to bring them in legally (your employee did this as an agent of you so you need to get involved).


So, applying this to you - If you screw over a side client (they break their computer three years after you sell it to them and feel you should give them a refund), they could just get mad at you and call your main employer. It sounds silly, but it happened to me.