i'm looking for a IDE tool for php that have similar features like VisualStudio.net where it have something like intelisense that will auto finish your code or give out suggestion and highlight if you make a syntex error.

does Zend studio offer similar features like Visual Studio.net?

Zend studio looks like it would be similar, they have a flash demo of it on this page:

http://www.zend.com/store/products/zend-studio/

there is also a ton of IDEs listed here: http://www.php-editors.com/

Zend also seems to have a free trial on their site.

Just remember, code completion (may) make you stupid over time :)

Just remember, code completion (may) make you stupid over time :)

see...that's part where i don't understand. why do opensource coders perfer to remember the command/syntext instead figuring out the algorthim?

i don't want to remeber all the visual basic, C#, java, or php syntext. i want a tool to show me the option of what i can select or complete the code that i typed. it save me time to focus on figuring out the algorthim instead trying to remeber what command that i must type.

see...that's part where i don't understand. why do opensource coders perfer to remember the command/syntext instead figuring out the algorthim?

i don't want to remeber all the visual basic, C#, java, or php syntext. i want a tool to show me the option of what i can select or complete the code that i typed. it save me time to focus on figuring out the algorthim instead trying to remeber what command that i must type.

Why did you have to say "opensource programmers"? You could have asked innova why he thinks that..
Anyway, when you get some development experience - you'll KNOW what innova meant and that he was right. ;)

What innova meant was, you start getting dependent on "IntelliSense" or code-complete (also called function hinting) technologies, and then are completely SOL when you have to do something in a different IDE or environment.

I only appreciate the intellisene feature of PHP editors when it comes to remembering the different needle and haystack orders in some string functions (its no always as you would think it would be). Other than that, I tend to ignore it as its easier for me to type it out than to use the arrow keys to select the correct in a list of functions.

The Zend Studio is a pretty poor IDE, I bought it a bit ago and was really disappointed...really basic things that should exist do not (no code refactoring tools etc etc). The only thing the Zend Studio is really useful for is if you use the profiler or debugger and even with those there are tools for free that you can use.


Also from my experience people that don't see the value of good IDEs either work with languages that don't have good IDEs for them and hence don't speak from experience or don't have experience working on large projects. Things you can do in a good IDE (e.g. Intellij, Visual studio) in a couple of minutes would take you hours using standard text editors (emacs etc)...and you really learn nothing from wasting your time doing boring mandune tasks.

Well, part of the problem with 'refactoring' is language support, but I agree with you Zend IDE doesn't compare well with other IDEs of different languages. When it comes to PHP IDEs though, its one of the best rated.

The opposite side of that coin is, most complex IDEs have quite a learning curve, especially for people not used to developing in large scale environments. I have to say though, IntelliJ was ver easy for me to pick up and run with. I highly recommend the trial version for anyone looking for a great Java IDE.

Of course, there is always the McGuyver of IDEs ... Eclipse....

I' m currently using PSPad (http://www.pspad.com/) and like it quite a bit

Why did you have to say "opensource programmers"? You could have asked innova why he thinks that..
Anyway, when you get some development experience - you'll KNOW what innova meant and that he was right. ;)

i mean no offensive but most if not 100% of 'em perfer to remember command/syntext...etc. instead using tool to speed thing up. at least most of code who give me that arugment are usually opensource coders. it seem like they think Visual Studio IDE is like Windows GUI wizard.

what i'm trying to say is a programing lanauges is just a tool. if you understand how to figure out the algorithms for your program then it doesn't matter what tool/lanauges you program in. coders shouldn't waste time on remebering commands/snytex.

Google founders figure a algorithm to create their serach engine (PageRank) and you can code it in any lanauges that you want since it's algorithms that matter not the lanauges. Check out their white paper on PageRank, you can code that in any lanagues.

IMO, i believe in figuring out algorithim is more important then learning tool.

Well, part of the problem with 'refactoring' is language support

Yeah, I know that there are limitations to what can be done with PHP given its structure, but still there are many things they could've done that just aren't there, maybe the new version will be better. I think they did do a decent job with the profiler/debugger though, they just seemed to ignore the other side of what IDEs do.

IMO, i believe in figuring out algorithim is more important then learning tool.

Yeah, but a lot of programming doens't really involve solving complex computational problems...so this point will not really matter (or not be understood) by people that have never worked with subject matter that is highly theoretical.
That is to say..."solving the algorithm" for these people is equivalent to "using ksort". But the structure of the application is still important here and IDEs help a lot with this.

fyrestrtr,

You said it much more elegantly than I did.

JT, I dont really think its about memorizing vs. not memorizing. For example, I rely heavily on php.net, but that isnt the same sort of crutch that using an IDE can be.

I have some friends who are graduates of Brown/Devry/etc that cannot function without their tools, since that was how they were taught from the beginning. For someone who started out coding from Vim (or Notepad, etc) and then moved up into an IDE to streamline their workflow, I am sure they find it valuble.