I am just getting to know this business, but this sounds like big news... CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/19/news/companies/paypal/index.htm)

They mention Paypal in the article. I imagine this applies to 2checkout and others as well?


- Doug

OMG, this could be a disaster, surely this would do master card too much harm to them selves though?

In case the link changes, here is the article from CNNMoney...

MasterCard is changing the rule that allows online retailers to accept credit card payments through such popular services as PayPal, to protect financial institutions and card holders from fraud and identity theft, USA Today reported.


Unless a settlement is reached, on May 1 retailers and other mom-and-pop operations that could not otherwise afford to participate directly in MasterCard's network could miss out on sales from the nation's No. 2 online credit card, the paper reported. Additionally, MasterCard holders could have a harder time using their cards at sites that use PayPal and similar services, Gartner analyst Avivah Litan told USA Today.

The rule change would require retailers to make arrangements with banks to take MasterCard directly, a time-consuming and expensive process, particularly for small merchants. This is likely aimed at porn and gaming sites where there are more instances of credit card fraud and identity theft.

The biggest third-party system is PayPal, with about 13 million registered users, most of which are small Internet merchants or people who frequent auction sites, the paper reported.

The change could also affect similar services such as Yahoo!'s PayDirect and eBay Payments, Gartner's Litan said. The paper could not reach Yahoo! for comment. EBay said it would probably not be affected since its services work through Wells Fargo. PayPal said it is working to get an exemption.

PayPal spokesman Vince Sollitto told USA Today the company is "hopeful and confident" it will come to new terms with MasterCard.

Both Visa and American Express said they still accept PayPal. Amex also accepts one other service

Originally posted by Doug T
I am just getting to know this business, but this sounds like big news... CNNMoney (http://money.cnn.com/2002/04/19/news/companies/paypal/index.htm)

They mention Paypal in the article. I imagine this applies to 2checkout and others as well?


- Doug

It absolutely does effect us, as well as all 3rd party processors. We have been attempting to negotiate with MasterCard to at least extend the date of implementation (as has PayPal).

We are looking to add at least 2 more Credit Cards to our services. We should have check acceptance in place within the next 10 days.

Is anyone else thinking antitrust? There is little doubt in my mind that this is aimed as maintaining monopoly control.

I personally think it's a good idea for them to do that.

After all, third party processors are barely legal as it is.

Research "credit card laundering" with the FTC.

Man, that would suck, I guess they dont realise the scope of the revenue they will be loosing. But I do believe this whole credit card internet thing is going to hit a wall sometime, the companies are just going to refuse to put up with the ever increasing fraud.

I don't think fraud is the issue here. Paypal has demonstrated a remarkable ability to control fraud. (Last thing I heard, Paypal's fraud stats were now considerably below the CC average.)

I think this is MasterCard realizing that the increased use of online services like Paypal is going to start cutting into their profits -- which makes sense, given that the archaic systems upon which credit card processing is based are vastly inferior to what is available with the help of the internet.

:rolleyes: yes, more huffing and puffing from the corporate heavies trying to protect their little piece of dirt. :mad:

There has never been an acceptable, safe credit card solution for the internet anyways. We got stuck with something that the "Adult" world rigged up in a frenzy to accept $$$$$ through the net many years ago.

I use Paysystems.com, so it will be interesting to see how this little dummy spit by mastercard plays out.

Whoa this will suck extraordinarily bad.

Hopefully I'll have a merchant account by then, but still.. god this will aggravate me and cause more hassles than I really feel like right now.

What i cant understand is why you guys that use third party companies that charge you as much as (if not more) 5% per transaction, dont realize that in the long run, getting a merchant account would be more affordable. I thought you were in this business to make money, not give it away to 3rd party merchant companies :eek:

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
What i cant understand is why you guys that use third party companies that charge you as much as (if not more) 5% per transaction, dont realize that in the long run, getting a merchant account would be more affordable.

Getting a merchant account is distinctly nontrivial; also in many cases *using* a merchant account is harder or more time consuming then using 3rd party companies. And I know some people who use Paypal simply because Paypal provides basic fraud screening.

As they say, time is money. If you're not dealing with a huge transaction volume, it might be worth it to pay a higher processing fee.

2Checkout is addressing this issue on multiple fronts.

We are working to come to an agreement with MasterCard, before May 1, that will allow our merchants to continue to accept Mastercards. We are confident that we will reach an agreement. It is possible that this agreement may necessitate a small additional monthly fee to merchants that wish accept Mastercard.

2Checkout.com is also considering a business classification change that would only effect the terms of service slightly, but would allow 2Checkout.com the ability to still accept the Mastercard sales for all parties concerned.

Fortunately before this bomb was dropped on us a short while ago, we were already working on an alternate plan for merchants that wished to provide a little more information on themselves to get their name on the bill for and additional $10 a month, or alternatively pay roughly a $40 a month fee in exchange for lower transaction rates.

Lastly, in order to help you mitigate the possible effect of this change, 2Checkout.com, Inc. will be implementing an electronic check acceptance capability immediately at no additional cost. Details to follow early next week. Other payment options are being considered and may also be included.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
What i cant understand is why you guys that use third party companies that charge you as much as (if not more) 5% per transaction, dont realize that in the long run, getting a merchant account would be more affordable. I thought you were in this business to make money, not give it away to 3rd party merchant companies :eek:
Love that post with your sig file. :eek:

<<MOD NOTE: Has now been edited to comply with the guidelines>>

Quite happy with Paysystems.com. They've blocked dozens of possible fraud transactions and I get my $$$$$ wired when they hit a certrian level. Their interface is effective. Their fees are acceptable. Just a cost of doing business.

BTW, you carry on like merchant accounts and all the fees you get slugged with them from banks don't exist. I come from Australia and a merchant account + online processing is damn expensive.

<imho>

I have to agree with Alaskan Wolf on this one.

Getting a merchant account is pretty straight forward, and saves plenty of money in the long run. Sure you can sign-up with the third-party providers in minutes, but you lose more money through transactions with them than you do with your own merchant account.

We use Planet Payment and they had us set-up in a few days - since then we have never looked back. I don't even know why I ever thought it was better to use third-party solutions - we orginally used iBill.

But I do recognise that some people aren't able to get a merchant account and that they may have no choice but to use third-party. So the news about MasterCard must be very worrying for those people.

But, I would advise anyone who can to get their own merchant account .... Planet Payment is good for both US Int'l - they use the Authrize.net gateway which is great.

</imho>

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
What i cant understand is why you guys that use third party companies that charge you as much as (if not more) 5% per transaction, dont realize that in the long run, getting a merchant account would be more affordable. I thought you were in this business to make money, not give it away to 3rd party merchant companies :eek:

I would agree with you if I were an american business. But sadly, I am not.. there are very few merchant account providers for us. :bawling:

Originally posted by kunal


I would agree with you if I were an american business. But sadly, I am not.. there are very few merchant account providers for us. :bawling:

Two words ..Planet Payment. They offer merchant accounts to Int'l businesses.

http://www.planetpayment.com/

Originally posted by nmihosting


Two words ..Planet Payment. They offer merchant accounts to Int'l businesses.

http://www.planetpayment.com/

They are way to expensive and support sucks... :mad:

What exactily is the difference between a merchant account and something like 2checkout.com?

Originally posted by kunal


They are way to expensive and support sucks... :mad:

Expensive how? Sure there is a few hundred bucks in set-up fees, but nothing outrageous that can't be viewed as a normal expense of doing business. Plus I find their rates to be great. IMHO any business should be able to pay up a few hundred bucks in set-up fees. But I guess it really depends on what your priorities are.

I recommended Planet Payment becuase you complained that there were no real options for Int'l merchants to get merchant accounts. Yet when I gave you one to be helpful, you say that they are to expensive and the support sucks. Have you ever been a customer of theirs? Perhaps you are going off what others have advised you - which is perfectly valid. But for the record my experience with them has been fine. They can be a bit slow in replying to support requests, but then again the need for support is very low. Their product is great and is working well for us.

I still stand behind my recommedation of Planet Payment for Int'l business' wanting to get a merchant account.

Originally posted by nmihosting
I recommended Planet Payment becuase you complained that there were no real options for Int'l merchants to get merchant accounts. Yet when I gave you one to be helpful, you say that they are to expensive and the support sucks. Have you ever been a customer of theirs? Perhaps you are going off what others have advised you - which is perfectly valid. But for the record my experience with them has been fine. They can be a bit slow in replying to support requests, but then again the need for support is very low. Their product is great and is working well for us.


I wouldnt mind shelling out a lil extra. I am using worldpay at the present moment, and they are on the expensive side for my country.

Thanks for your recommendation. :) Yes, I am going off what others have said and my own expierence. There sales response time is very very slow. I can just about imagine there customer support.

What are the rates they are giving you?

Thanks for the info.
Kunal

They can be a bit slow in replying to support requests, but then again the need for support is very low.
God, you want to talk about slow support. Try submitting a support request through an Authorizenet terminal.

Besides that, though, we've been very happy with our own merchant account. And in 6 months, we've had neither a single charge-back, or a SUCCESSFUL fraudulent transaction. It only takes a few minutes to do what these 3rd party guys do as far as fraud-control.

I am glad, though, that I live in the US, where it is much easier to do business online. I really feel for you guys (Kunal, et al) that have to jump through so many hoops just to make a few bucks.

Originally posted by kunal



I wouldnt mind shelling out a lil extra. I am using worldpay at the present moment, and they are on the expensive side for my country.

Thanks for your recommendation. :) Yes, I am going off what others have said and my own expierence. There sales response time is very very slow. I can just about imagine there customer support.

What are the rates they are giving you?

Thanks for the info.
Kunal

:) No problem Kunal ... sorry I couldn't be more helpful I guess. Other than Planet Payment I don't have any expereince with Int'l merchant account providers.

I am not comfortable disclosing our rates, but I can say we are happy with them and we certainly made sure they were competive.

Good talking to you anyway

:wavey:

Did anybody notice that it was only Mastercard that was doing this?

Typically when you hear Mastercard or Visa, you assume one and the same but they are actually two seperate associations but with a close link.

The article refers to Visa having no intention on doing the same thing. American Express stands with Paypal. I do not know what the status/relationship with Discover is, but that is yet another card as well.

Personally, I do not see this as the "end" of Paypal. What it appears to me as, is an attempt by the association to take a greater percentage on the take.

It also seems like an effrort from Mastercard to try and protect their affiliate banks that issue Merchant Accounts. It can easily cost a small business a base of $50 a month just to take the first charge.

Paypal has a place for small business. With no monthy minimums or base fees, it is by far a better solution as opposed to most entry level merchant accounts.

The next question is.... how does this announcement affect the Paypal Debit Mastercards that are furnished with some Paypal accounts?

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

The next question is.... how does this announcement affect the Paypal Debit Mastercards that are furnished with some Paypal accounts?

They'll take my Paypal debit card when they pry my cold dead fingers from around it :angry:

I use that thing for most of my day to day purchases.

You think MasterCard could have given notice of this policy change a bit eailer? Gosh! 10 days?

:eek:

*Runs around room pulling hair like a mad man ;)

Anyhow, do they realize how much revenue will be lost due to this change? Answer? Heck yes. My guess is that they did the numbers and saw that making one on one deals with companies like paypal will bring in more of the green stuff.

Oh well....can't really blame them right? It's business..and i think everyone here knows that business is business. But, hey ...is pissing off your customers the right way to go?

quite a conundrum heh!

I'm just glad I got merchant accounts through CSI with Visa and Mastercard when I first started. :) 3rd party places weren't really around back then.

It's obvious that Visa and MasterCard don't compete and are both controlled by the same member banks.

I'm guessing that they are making changes to MasterCard, but not Visa, just to test the waters out.

If they like the results, I bet that the member banks will initiate the same changes to Visa.

Originally posted by sbrad

God, you want to talk about slow support. Try submitting a support request through an Authorizenet terminal.

Besides that, though, we've been very happy with our own merchant account. And in 6 months, we've had neither a single charge-back, or a SUCCESSFUL fraudulent transaction. It only takes a few minutes to do what these 3rd party guys do as far as fraud-control.

I am glad, though, that I live in the US, where it is much easier to do business online. I really feel for you guys (Kunal, et al) that have to jump through so many hoops just to make a few bucks.

We have submitting 3 support requests, and 2 phone calls with A.net and every one of them has been answered within 24 hours (phone - waited for 5 minutes and someone picked up)

We have submitting 3 support requests, and 2 phone calls with A.net and every one of them has been answered within 24 hours (phone - waited for 5 minutes and someone picked up)
Not me. I've submitted 2 requests, and it's been over a month on both.
Finally found the phone number.

My prediction:

MasterCard will soon (just coincidentally, mind) come out with the all-new "mastercardpal.com" third party processor! At only 9% per transaction, even you can accept MasterCard at your own small business!

:rolleyes:

Anyone spoke to worldpay to see if it will affect people using them? I better give them a call on monday.

MasterCard will soon (just coincidentally, mind) come out with the all-new "mastercardpal.com" third party processor! At only 9% per transaction, even you can accept MasterCard at your own small business!

Man, I bet you're right on, on this one. Bastards!

I got Revecom on chat and told the operator who didn't know anything. He was going to pass the info on but I hope the knew already. Better wait til Monday but I think this is death for companies like them.

Headsurfer, it's only one card, yes, but it's a big one and accounts for 40% of our business. It's a big deal, mate.

Don't most european users use mastercard/eurocard? I don't think they have much visa over there.

The Fish

.......

Originally posted by Aussie Bob

BTW, you carry on like merchant accounts and all the fees you get slugged with them from banks don't exist. I come from Australia and a merchant account + online processing is damn expensive.

umm to bad :D

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
Anyone spoke to worldpay to see if it will affect people using them? I better give them a call on monday.


I have emailed them.. waiting on a response...

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf


umm to bad :D
AlaskanWolf, your attitude has been a bit nasty lately. What's up with you? Obviously you don't belong in this thread apart from to give you exposure. You've made your feelings about 3rd Party Processors quite clear. No need to rub all our noses in it.

You're doing my head in........

no idea what your talking about. My attitude is just fine. :D


Im not rubbing anything in anyones noses, Im trying to make a point that yes, as a whole 3rd party processors are a big rip off and i hate to see companies being taken advantage of so badly.

And my "attitude" was pointed toward the person that was quoted in my reply, no one else :D

Originally posted by kunal



I have emailed them.. waiting on a response...

When you receive a reply, please post it in this thread.

Thanks.

Not sure if this is coincidence, but we have had 3 declined payments today from customers using Mastercard, who swear there cards have "plenty available"

This is through Worldpay. Is it May 1 already ?

I may be wrong, but is WorldPay a merchant account or a third party processor? If its a merchant account then you have nothing to fear...

- Asher

If eBay says they're not worried because all transactions are processed through Wells Fargo, then the solution for PayPal and the other third party processors will simply be to buy a U.S. based bank. In fact, as I recall, I remember seeing a press release some 12 to 18 months ago, that PayPal had indeed purchased some small bank in Colorado or other western state.

I don't want to sound like a conspiracy buff, but I wonder if PayPal is not in thick-as-thieves with MasterCard. Perhaps PayPal plans to use this announcement as a reason to increase their transaction fees. Or maybe start charging businesses a monthly fee to "upgrade" to a merchant status account and then be able to accept MasterCard, too. Since PayPal offers a MasterCard debit card, I have trouble believing that PayPal would be left out of the loop on this decision by MasterCard.

In addition, this certainly would hurt PayPal's smaller competition like worldpay, 2checkout, propay, etc. who may not be in a financial position to purchase or start-up a U.S. bank. Gee... that would also help PayPal, too.

The big get bigger and PayPal gets richer. Business as usual IMHO. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
as a whole 3rd party processors are a big rip off

On the contrary, third-party processors serve to fill a much needed niche in the market.

We generally recommend that our merchants who can afford to do so -- and for whom a merchant account would be a cost-effective alternative -- switch to an individual merchant account.

For those individuals who have a bad credit history, are internationally based or who are just starting our and do not want to commit to a longer contract a third-party processor is the only answer.

It was never 2CO's intent to replace the merchant account biz.

I don't think anyone doubts that this move by MasterCard was not based upon the "fraud" and "identity theft" reasons that are mentioned in the articles. Most third-party processors work very diligently to combat fraud for the sake of protecting their own merchant accounts.

It's a disturbing turn of events to be certain and we hope that MasterCard modifies this regulation but, in the event that does not happen, we're also looking at alternatives for our merchants.

In conclusion, we certainly hope that our merchants don't feel 'ripped off' by the services they receive from us. It's always been our goal to simply provide an alternative for those who need an alternative -- and at a reasonable cost.

Kristin

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
What i cant understand is why you guys that use third party companies that charge you as much as (if not more) 5% per transaction, dont realize that in the long run, getting a merchant account would be more affordable.

Of course everyone using a 3d party deal is not a good business man
:rolleyes:
For small international companies getting a merchant account is not so easy as if they are located in the US. You have to find one that:

accepts international customers
is able to process several currencies (at least US$ and EURO or such)
fees not to high for depositing money around the world


And don't forget that with a third party merchant you have to worry less about security!

Hello
Worldpay is proper merchant accounts.
Although they keep this well hidden and you only find out you have proper merchant ID when you have to flag up a fraud with the bank who issued the merchant account.

Also, they keep one months fees on deposit to reduce their chargeback risk.

Gordon

Oh
I should also say that "factoring" (third party payment processing) is basically illegal in the UK and the only company that does it is using a number of loopholes to get away with it.

Its like in the US where payapal should really be registered as abank.
OVer here they would have to be registered with the financial services authority and they would never be able to do what they do because of the money laundering regualtions.

Gordon

Originally posted by nmihosting


Two words ..Planet Payment. They offer merchant accounts to Int'l businesses.

http://www.planetpayment.com/

Have you checked out your recommendation lately? I have a Revecom account and am quite happy with it. As a matter of interest I decided to take you up on your advice and see what planet payment was all about. If they had better rates then I could switch and save some money. I clicked on the link in your post for them and nothing. Oh, no not nothing the following:

www.planetpayment.com could not be found please check the link and try again. So I did and I did. I even checked some links to them through google in case you entered it wrong. Same results. On second thought I don't need to know anything about them. Maybe you'll be wanting to check out www.revecom.com. Yes, their site is up and running just fine.

Have a nice day!
DPerley

Originally posted by DPerley


Have you checked out your recommendation lately? I have a Revecom account and am quite happy with it. As a matter of interest I decided to take you up on your advice and see what planet payment was all about. If they had better rates then I could switch and save some money. I clicked on the link in your post for them and nothing. Oh, no not nothing the following:

www.planetpayment.com could not be found please check the link and try again. So I did and I did. I even checked some links to them through google in case you entered it wrong. Same results. On second thought I don't need to know anything about them. Maybe you'll be wanting to check out www.revecom.com. Yes, their site is up and running just fine.

Have a nice day!
DPerley

Hi DPerley,

Revecom are a third party processor like Pay Pal and iBill. Planet Payment provides merchant accounts and gateway solutions - they are not a third party processor. They have been in business for a number of years and and are one of the worlds largest providers of such services with offices in several countries. You are right - their web site seems to be down at the moment although it hasn't been down for long becuase I was there just a few hours ago - these things do happen now and again. Their service however is not down as I just processed payments a few minutes ago. There is a big difference between what Planet Payment provide and what Revecom provides. If you are happy with Revecom that is great, I am pleased you are using a service that works for you.

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
BTW, you carry on like merchant accounts and all the fees you get slugged with them from banks don't exist. I come from Australia and a merchant account + online processing is damn expensive.

Now's a good time to consider PlanetPOS Bob.

Cheers

Gary

Originally posted by GordonH
Worldpay is proper merchant accounts.

Are you certain about this? I haven't heard back from them yet.. so.... :confused:


do you have an account with them to?

UPDATE:

Good News, as things now stand 2Checkout merchants will continue to be able to accept Mastercards on 5/1 and going forward.

2Checkout is confident that Mastercard will not choose to alienate such a large segment of the web buying and selling public and that concessions will be made to this ruling. However if MasterCard does ultimately rule in a manner that is detrimental to our merchants we are certain that a grace period will exist and that we will be able to transition them to the best possible solution available without service interruption.

The above post still applies and as always we will continue to add services and options to assist our merchants in doing what makes the most sense for their businesses.

Originally posted by pcsteve
But, hey ...is pissing off your customers the right way to go? It might at least be an understandable way to go, if a move that inconveniences or shuts out your smaller customers (companies that don't have their own merchant accounts for whatever reason) benefits your largest customers (the banks that sell merchant accounts). That's the conundrum: which group of customers do you cater to?

Well, worldpay just replied to me... and worldpay users will not be affected by the change... which is the best darn news Ive heard in a while :D

:D :D

:) :cool: :beer: :agree:

No word from Revecom yet. :(

Originally posted by GordonH
Oh
I should also say that "factoring" (third party payment processing) is basically illegal in the UK and the only company that does it is using a number of loopholes to get away with it.


Gordon,
Which company are you referring to here?

Thanks

Originally posted by xtraordinary


Gordon,
Which company are you referring to here?

Thanks

http://www.nochex.com is the only UK third-party processor that I am aware of - they are probably who Gordon is referring to (?)

Worldpay is proper merchant accounts

Are you in the UK.
I have contacted WorldPay a couple of times about this. When i first signed up they told me to take the Card Logo's off the site as only the merchant account holders are allowed to show this. A few months later I asked them about showing the card logo's and again they said no as Word Pay are the Merchants and not us.
You have to be a Merchant to Display the Logos.

Originally posted by kunal
Well, worldpay just replied to me... and worldpay users will not be affected by the change... which is the best darn news Ive heard in a while :D

I have contacted WorldPay a couple of times about this. When i first signed up they told me to take the Card Logo's off the site as only the merchant account holders are allowed to show this. A few months later I asked them about showing the card logo's and again they said no as Word Pay are the Merchants and not us.

:confused:

maybe the have a seperate merchant account for each person, but it belongs to them?

Originally posted by jgriff64


Are you in the UK.
I have contacted WorldPay a couple of times about this. When i first signed up they told me to take the Card Logo's off the site as only the merchant account holders are allowed to show this. A few months later I asked them about showing the card logo's and again they said no as Word Pay are the Merchants and not us.
You have to be a Merchant to Display the Logos.

So let me get this straight, WorldPay provides third party accounts??? I was under the impression that they had their own acquisition facilities and they acquired merchant accounts in their own right...

Are you 100% certain about this? I am interested because one of our dedicated server clients, was considering WP for a merchant account (he didn't want third party)...

Regards,
Asher.

You will need to double check with WorldPay, I am not sure if they meant we dont have a merchant account, but they where quite clear we are not allowed to show credit card logo's on our site, only the pages hosted by world pay.
I know when we had a Merchant account thorugh Barclays, direct, we recieved permission to show the cards on the website, which went when we cancelled that merchant account.

I just double checked.. and mine is a merchant account... im using the world direct service? were you guys signed up for the same service?

I just double checked.. and mine is a merchant account... im using the world direct service? were you guys signed up for the same service?

Did they say you are allowed to have the Card Logos on your website?

I got some great news from Revecom:
PaySystems owns and operates it's own class A bank. Additionally, PaySystems works with Eurocard - MasterCard Europe - which is not affected by this problem.

Keep in mind that MasterCard USA has been advising 3rd party processors of this change for the past 6 months.

Your account will not be affected in any way.
.
:D :D :D :D :D

Another plus for Revecom/Paysystems.

Seems strange that some of the other companies,:stickout (no names) are scrambling at the last minute to come up with bandaid solutions if this information has been available for six months.

Thanx for the update, NexDog.

:D :D :D
:smash:
:sleeping: Time to wake up! LOL

Originally posted by jgriff64


Did they say you are allowed to have the Card Logos on your website?

I havent asked them. Does it make a difference?

Originally posted by cperciva


Getting a merchant account is distinctly nontrivial; also in many cases *using* a merchant account is harder or more time consuming then using 3rd party companies. And I know some people who use Paypal simply because Paypal provides basic fraud screening.

As they say, time is money. If you're not dealing with a huge transaction volume, it might be worth it to pay a higher processing fee.

A merchant account costs no more then $200.00 to set up and software that automates billing each month is not more then $1.00 per user with the first 100 users free in most cases. Your rates will be much lower with a regular merchant account and 9 out of 10 times a phone call to the card holder will tell you if it is fraud or not. It is real easy to detect fraud and every month more and more tools are put into place (free of charge) that allow you to more easily detect fraud.

You might have lots of options in L.A. Ryan but in Canada the bank rates are pretty much the same no matter where you live. I was quoted $800 just to set up the account. That's not counting all of the monthly charges.

When you first start out it's just not worth it. The other factor is it can take weeks to get setup and that is not an exageration. I know business people who have had to wait 3 weeks or more.

With 3rd party I'm set up and ready to make money in 24 hours in some cases.

Anyway, everyone needs to research in their local market to find out what the options are and then do some common sense comparisons. Then you can make an informed and educated decision.

DPerley