hello

fortunatelly my hosting company is getting out of my control... I start on 2003, alone, and 3 months ago I had to hire an employe to help me taking care... he just do the customers support, I'm still the tech/monitor (in case something bad happens)

I'm not a big guy now... I'm still going to my 4th server, but I put around 300~400 customers per server, so there's a lot of people to support and take care
the servers are doing good (like 3 months without downtimes now), but I'm felling some risks
I do backups 3 times a week on a secondary HD and once a week for a external server, but the problems I'm afraid are:

1) A big problem with a DC... I don't have a "rescue" plan, and I think that no one can get out very quick (less than 24 hours) in case a DC gets a problem
firstly because you'd probably wait at least 4 or 6 hours to see if the DC comes back
if it doesn't, then you'd try to get a new server... it may take more 24 hours to get the server setted up, so it's not a good choice
an idea here probably would be to split the customers between the other servers, even if they need a little more resources for the time they stay (it won't be forever, just while I get a new server)

maybe I should start doing this rescue plan? any other suggestions for things I should take care and be prepared?

(one of my cautions is to get servers on different datacenters, so if one go completly down, I still have a backup)

2) When I started, I liked the "tech life"... now I don't
I love computers... love programming and do this for almost 15 years
I also like compiling/configuring/customizing programs, testing things, etc...
but I don't like having 300 or more sites that can be down if I make a mistake doing those things

I'm also afraid I'm not available when something bad happens (ok, I take a caution here and bought a Pocket PC with GPRS access, but it would be almost impossible to get a backup from one server to other using it...)
I also always have my trusted techs phone numbers with me...
but maybe a good thing I could do would be to hire a company to take care of my servers?

one problem is that I'm pretty paranoid with those companies... always hear bad stories from time to time... but guess I should still live with this risk, since no one is perfect
[please, company owners don't start sending your own recommendations now... I'll ask for recommendations later if I decide to get one company for managing my servers]
or maybe I should hire a local tech that I trust... but then he wouldn't be 24/7 too... and would cost too much for managing just 4 servers :(

anyway, I know that if a server is down I won't rest even if I know the most competent tech is taking care of it... I'm paranoid knowing many sites are down because of "my" fault
well... maybe the site's owners must know that nothing is perfect too...

3 and last) currently I do all the support by tickets, managed by OTRS, what I think is very good and efficient (response time is less than 30 minutes in average)
this allows me and my employe to answer questions around 18 hours a day, what I think is very good
do you recommend adding phone support? a toll free line? then my costs would be higher...
maybe I should charge more from customers who wants the phone support (like a fix fee per month... or if he doesn't have this fee per month, he can pay the fee each time he calls... so if he things he will use less than once a month, it will worth for him anyway)
then the time of service would probably be reduced... like monday to friday from 8am to 20am? otherwise it will be too much costy I think

but do you see many problems in not having a phone number?
I think I'll probably need to have a high-$killed tech to take care if I charge more, since he will need to have access to the server to check users account, troubleshoot, and so one... I think he can't just say "i'll return as soon as I find what happens"... nowadays he can send me the tickets he can't answer...
15minuteservers also doesn't have phone tech support, but it's pretty fast on the tickets support... that's good for escalonating and giving priorities for the tickets (what can't be done on phone calls)

---------------

well... that's all
if you read up to here, thanks :)
as you can see, I have a "garage hosting", but I'm trying to profissionalize it

any suggestions will be very appreciated

thanks

If the risks and responsibilities are beginning to overwhelm you and you're not into it anymore, you could always sell the business and let another host take over.

If the risks and responsibilities are beginning to overwhelm you and you're not into it anymore, you could always sell the business and let another host take over.

I got an offer like:
- 10 times the current profit
- 10% of the profits
- 100% on the first month of new customers, 65% on the second and third months and the 10% for other months

but I'm thinking specially the "10 times the current profit" is not good enough, specially considering the company is growing very much (growed almost 100% this year)

I think you are at the point where the hobby becomes a business. ;)

I remember when I was just starting out and could do most everything myself. Life was good and it was alot of fun but over time as more and more orders came in it got to the point where even with a handful of full time techs and a bunch of part-timers I spent almost all my time doing paperwork or on the phone with different DC's, distributors etc and well... The fun factor was lost.. What I enjoyed was setting up the servers and dealing with the customers but rarely got to do that anymore with all the administration work to do everyday.. But that's ok. I am good at adapting ;)

It's kind of an interesting turn of events though. Every small company dreams of creating a successful company but when it gets successful everything usually changes.. You just have to change with it and find something else you enjoy doing in the company. After all your the boss so you can do that right? ;)

I would say if it truly is too much for you to handle and your not enjoying the pace then try to sell it before it gets to the point you cannot.. Most people make the mistake to wait too long and their company rep. takes a 'hit' because of the lost interest. Don't make that mistake..

I decided I'll do me a favor and hire a consultant :)

Yes, definitely hire a consultant. They will help you develop emergency-reponse plans, as well as help you align your business processes so that everything runs streamlined again. This will probably mean outsourcing server management, and perhaps even customer support, but with the consultant helping you, things should go very smoothly.

Keep us updated on how things go!

We have just recently hired outsourced support (about two months ago) and have ditched our first outsourced support company. If you go with outsourced support in the end, give me a PM and I can reccomend one good one, but make sure they are English natives, and have perfect english. If they give your clients broken english responses, they come across as unprofessional, and in turn make your whole company look unprofessional. Especially when they may not understand the question at hand.

Just my opinion.

We have just recently hired outsourced support (about two months ago) and have ditched our first outsourced support company. If you go with outsourced support in the end, give me a PM and I can reccomend one good one, but make sure they are English natives, and have perfect english. If they give your clients broken english responses, they come across as unprofessional, and in turn make your whole company look unprofessional. Especially when they may not understand the question at hand.

Just my opinion.

the problem is that if they give perfect English answer most my customers won't understand
all my customers speak Portuguese :P
that's one reason it's little more difficult to outsource support, so I think I may try to partnership with a few other growing hosting companies here

1) Setup your servers in other datacenters and don't let them be very filled, keep enough room that if one of your DC's goes down for some reason you can transfer them over. Obviously this is a very simplified point of view, but keep it in mind.

2) Get your servers from a company that will give you full server administration as a part of the monthly fee unless you own the hardware and colocate. If you buy your servers from a company like Idologic.com you can be sure they'll always have someone who can fix any issues that may come up.

3) If you don't already, make sure you have a comprehensive helpdesk with a knowledgebase that users can check with some flash guides. If users can solve things *easily* on their own without navigating through a website too much then they WILL try and solve issues on their own, faster and easier than contacting support in many cases.

Mayble you should ask one of your competitors that actually act like a biz so you can improve.

Now for real, I would ask these questions to related-trusted person's and if possible someone that has our have a biz running.

PS: Phone support will bost your cost heavilly in Brazil and since you are paranoid I would not advise. (If a server goes down are you going to handle the presure?)

Any way good luck!

Greetings:

Controlled growth is a good thing; uncontrolled growth can be as bad as no growth or worse, fleeting losses.

That stated, here are some thoughts:


1. Pat yourself on the back from the basis of your using enough sense to limit each server to 300 to 400 customers.

Over the past ten years in business, we've seen horror stories of companies trying to force as many customers on a server as they can do so; then wasting time and money figuring out why there are slow downs. Then they rush to try and move off what they can move, often not sure if they are moving the right sites in the first place.

Therefore, you are doing well by knowing and practicing good management of the server resources.


2. If your company is in the U.S., and most of your customers are in the U.S., please do work on your spelling and grammer. This can make a difference in the long run, especially with business customers.


3. Yes, you should work on a comprehensive, disaster recovery plan.

This plan should include the handling of "what if" scenarios for applications going down on a server, a single server being out of commission, or the data center itself having severe problems (eg. Verio's Boca facility being down for more than one day).

BTW, one of the benefits of co-location over renting servers is that you can typically stock spare parts including spare servers and other devices.


4. Do consider daily backups.


5. Hire locally as you can do so; and eventually you will be able to have more of a life than being tied down.

God blessed me with being put as the steward of Dynamic Net, Inc.; and it took several long years to get to the point of being able to have free time.

As it makes sense, do outsource. Do your homework, and call (very key) those management companies of which appear to be of fit, talk with their staff (not just the sales person or directory). When you have your choice narrowed down to one or two, ask for references, and call the references.

Please note the key words in #5 above is to call. Use email to get basic information, but then get on the phone.

Also, while only my personal opionion, most "solid" management companies will not offer you a pie in the sky stating you have 24x7x365 coverage for a dime (I'm using brick and motar talk; but consider a dime to be $100 or so per month Internet speak for 24x7x365 coverage).

If a management company has solid, trained, people, while you will pay less for 24x7x365 coverage than if you hired the same mix of people required (vacation, sick time, personal time, family time, etc.), it will not be oodles less.


6. We use Cerberus for our ticket system; and it works rather well.


7. As you have found out, offers to buy your company can vary; though the first type of offer you posted (10 times profit) was actually very fair compared to the other two. The third one would make me shake in my boots because 100% for the first month of new customers can actually be $0.00 if you don't get any new customers the first month; and it provides no monies for existing customers (at least this is how the 3rd offer was worded).


Thank you.

hello

thanks for sharing you knowledge :)
I'll be discussing some of this points with the consultant

Just about the offer, in fact it's a single offer:
I get 10 times the current profit (but splitted on 18 months), 10% of the profits for ever and 100% comission for new customers on the first month, 65% and 65% on the next and then they start to be counted on the 10% comissions

hello

thanks for sharing you knowledge :)
I'll be discussing some of this points with the consultant

Just about the offer, in fact it's a single offer:
I get 10 times the current profit (but splitted on 18 months), 10% of the profits for ever and 100% comission for new customers on the first month, 65% and 65% on the next and then they start to be counted on the 10% comissions


That's, honestly from what I have seen, quite an offer. The *BIG* questions, is would you be willing to give up your baby, and are you sure they would take care of your clients?

It's not too hard to find examples of sales that have gone wrong, especially on WHT. There's been some real bloopers.

As far as at least a minimal disaster recovery plan, I would suggest at least one server for every 2 shared servers, sitting idle in another DC. If you spend time working with a smaller DC you can probably get a deal where you can have a license for your prefered control the first month to have everything configured, then deactivate it. Also either pay one-time on upgrades and see if they can work on a reduced bandwidth set but be able to jump that up in the event you have to turn that server live.

The point of this is, you minimize your costs on the server since while it's sitting it will just take incoming backups (so it can restore VERY quickly in the event of an outage), and if you use, say, cpanel, you can just activate one of the 15 day trial licenses to get it online immediately, and that will give you enough time to sort out problems and decide on your next course of action once your clients have been restored.

Just a brainshare on recovery methods.

I also second Cerberus as a support system, but if OTRS is working for you, and you see it working fine on a 10x traffic scale, then don't change your support routines now. With (by your count) roughly 1200-1600 clients, you've entered a touchy stage for making drastic changes to such things, and it could be an expensive (in terms of time spent to learn the new system, and customer grief in the transition) to change such things now.

In the end, just remember your clients are counting on you to take care of them. Some of them... their entire business relies on you doing your job, so make sure you keep their best interests at heart, and you will be okay.

hello

thanks for sharing you knowledge :)
I'll be discussing some of this points with the consultant

Just about the offer, in fact it's a single offer:
I get 10 times the current profit (but splitted on 18 months), 10% of the profits for ever and 100% comission for new customers on the first month, 65% and 65% on the next and then they start to be counted on the 10% comissions

Personally, I'd be very carefull around offers like that. It sounds rather mickey-mouse to me, for one simple reason. Any company that claims they'll give you 10% of their profits, and 10% commission on all new sales, forever hasn't thought it through very well (or has no intent of going through with it), especially if its gross profits (which would be my immediate assumption).

Personally, I'd be very carefull around offers like that. It sounds rather mickey-mouse to me, for one simple reason. Any company that claims they'll give you 10% of their profits, and 10% commission on all new sales, forever hasn't thought it through very well (or has no intent of going through with it), especially if its gross profits (which would be my immediate assumption).

well, true, you'd have to ensure that the company was a reputable one, but I assumed that would be... .... obvious.

Also, I believe when you say 'gross profits' you mean 'revenue' and i'm sure if they meant 'revenue' they'd have said 'revenue' instead of 'profits'.

While going off of 'profits' isn't nearly as good as off of 'revenue', it would depend on his companies overhead and such as to if it would be worth it.

In the end, if you do end up looking to sell, contact a lawyer, as they will look out for your best interests in a sale.

Personally, I'd be very carefull around offers like that. It sounds rather mickey-mouse to me, for one simple reason. Any company that claims they'll give you 10% of their profits, and 10% commission on all new sales, forever hasn't thought it through very well (or has no intent of going through with it), especially if its gross profits (which would be my immediate assumption).

it's a big company here that's joining with small hosting companies
I get 10% just the old customers I had got and 10% of the new customers I indicate... if they get new customers by their own, I don't get anything
and it's really 10% of the profit, not revenue

it's a big company here that's joining with small hosting companies
I get 10% just the old customers I had got and 10% of the new customers I indicate... if they get new customers by their own, I don't get anything
and it's really 10% of the profit, not revenue

I find it very questionable that any company would promise to give an outside/third party 10% of their profits (or profits of an existing brand), "forever" off a one time sale/deal, thats just my personal opinion of course.

I find it very questionable that any company would promise to give an outside/third party 10% of their profits (or profits of an existing brand), "forever" off a one time sale/deal, thats just my personal opinion of course.

it's for the time my current customers stay
if I don't indicate any new user, in 2 or 3 years I'll probably have less than 50% of the current users, because many will go out, so it's not really "10% forever"

You should get an expert, someone who can give you solid independant advice

hello again, people
I just came back (a few months later) to tell what I've done

I kept working hard on the company... my servers are still stable, so I don't get woke up very often and don't get much stress
Now even having the pocket PC with (56kbps) Internet access, that can be useful for restarting some service or some other basic management, I also got a notebook with bluetooth (that can be connected to the 56kbps mobilephone connection), that I carry when I need to travel or stay more than 3 or 4 hours somewhere without computers
with that I fell more safe in case of bad problems happen

I also got:
1) 1 server for backups
I'm working to make this server be able to substitute other serverS in case of problem (at least httpd... mysql would be very hard)
so even if 3 servers get down, having uncompressed backup of them on this server will let me start httpd server for these 3 servers and configure DNS to point to it (this server will be the secondary DNS server for the domains)

I think this remove a lot of risks of DC being down for example...
many sites depends on mysql, but I guess it's not VERY important on at least 60% of them

2) I had one employee answering support tickets
now I'll fire this one (because he can't work on my office... he worked from another job he has) and hire one to be on my office from 9am to 6pm (1 hour for lunch, that I'll cover) giving tickets, on-line chat, phone and MSN/skype support!
that's a giant leap for me

since he isn't a tech, everything except tickets will be for commercial support
I plan to make he start one or two week just with tickets to get a felling of the questions (of course I'll also give a training) and then move to the "realtime" support like chat, phone and msn/skype

if someone ask him a tech doubt on tickets, he just sends it to me... if someone asks a tech doubt in other way, he asks the person to create a ticket or creates it himself, I answer and he replies (like calling back for example)

any suggestions about that?
this won't be a toll-free number... at least not for now
I firstly want to see if it will worth and how many calls I should expect
maybe for toll-free I'll get a great increase of calls and need another employee

3) I got touchsupport for taking care of one of my server (I'm testing them)
I like it so far and probably will hire their "Admin Lite" plan for my other servers

4) The revenue grow 45% since I posted here asking what to do... so I guess I'm on the right way and I'm not stressed :)

I will try to keep this plan
and maybe someone has good some suggestions as always :)

thanks very much

If you go with outsourced support in the end, give me a PM and I can reccomend one good one, but make sure they are English natives, and have perfect english. If they give your clients broken english responses, they come across as unprofessional, and in turn make your whole company look unprofessional. Especially when they may not understand the question at hand.


If you're happy with your current provider, then you should consider making a "review" thread in these forums to share the information.

There are always lots of people looking to hear about how things are going with whatever provider you are using.

:)

Thanks for posting your update! It is great to see that you are doing well, and are managing the growth.

:)

To answer your question about giving your customers a phone number... I would NOT recommend this, unless you are prepared to hire more staff. It is much easier to handle a large ticket volume with a few staff and an online ticket system, then to have a phone number where one customer can occupy one staff person for 15 minutes easily. (And during that time, he is unable to help other customers...)

4) The revenue grow 45% since I posted here asking what to do... so I guess I'm on the right way and I'm not stressed :)

I will try to keep this plan
and maybe someone has good some suggestions as always :)

thanks very much

Good job LemonHead, you are definately on your way up

(...)
To answer your question about giving your customers a phone number... I would NOT recommend this, unless you are prepared to hire more staff. It is much easier to handle a large ticket volume with a few staff and an online ticket system, then to have a phone number where one customer can occupy one staff person for 15 minutes easily. (And during that time, he is unable to help other customers...)

hm... since this phone number is just for commercial support (ie, how much the plans cost, what does it offer) I'm beliving each user won't take more than 2 or 3 minutes... don't you think so?
if it's complex, he would be asked to create a support ticket
I'm considering to buy 2 phone lines and have a PABX to make one customer wait (hearing those beautiful musics :) ) in case the other line is used
but of course no one wants to wait more than 2 minutes

even it now being a toll free line at this time, don't you belive users would prefer using the on-line chat/msn/skype for support and using the phone just if he's very... "traditional"?

Hello

Your story touched me, as you seem to be in a similar situation to what I was last year, with my old web hosting company.

At that time, the warning signs were starting to kick in. Although I hired support, I was on 24/7 call. That was my downfall. I would go to bed worrying about my servers, about my customers. I'd worry frantically about hardware failure. I worried myself, almost to death. I lost my social life, and I lost my marriage.

I didn't do anything until I was in too deep.

My customers did not suffer. Like you I cared about them deeply (that was one of my issues). I did suffer, and I'm not ashamed to admit I spent months (after selling the company) on medication to recover my health. I was a nervous wreck.

I ended up selling my company and concentrating on my current company, which by learning my lessons, has rocketed in growth. I love running my current company, and I understand the danger signs of stress, and when to take a break. I couldn't be happier in my job now!

Certainly my friend, if you are feeling the strain, do something about it. If the worry is with you, when you go out socialising, have a drink with friends...you have a problem.

Please make sure you either do get out, or work a way of taking the strain off you, so you are working sensible work hours, with enjoyable breaks away.

Best of luck.

Lem0nhead, you sound truly concerned about the people you host. Keep it up.