Iraq cuts off sales of oil to the US... The US is already talking about hitting Iraq. Could this light the fuse? We need to do something because Iraq is becoming a bigger threat day by day .:mad:

War solves nothing.
We need more international negotiators in our world, and less military leaders...

You cant negotiate with Iraq... Until we instal a new leader in Iraq, there will be blood shed to come. War does solve some problems such as in Afghanistan. Nobody likes war but sometimes you cant avoid it.

Originally posted by TheException
War solves nothing.
We need more international negotiators in our world, and less military leaders...

War solves everything. War is the reason the countrys to have power have it.. If we just sat around with our thumb's up out a$$es then everyone would treat us like shyt. I dont like war and I think ethically it is probably wrong but you gotta do what you gotta do or people will take advantage of you. Same thing with the school bully. As far as them cutting off our oil... Who cares.. From what I hear it would not cause any problems for us.. They will be the only ones loosing out on our money.. And the whole thing I have been hearing about Saddam Hussain giving 25k to the suicide bombers is just making my blood boil I think its time to go take care of some business. If we were not always trying to make everyone happy we could have been in and out of there and have everything all wrapped up..

Originally posted by OKIHost
And the whole thing I have been hearing about Saddam Hussain giving 25k to the suicide bombers is ...

I wonder how the suicidal bombers spend that money ... :eek:

cheers,
:beer:

Well the US can't fall back on its Alaskan oil supply alone. Saddam is making weapons of mass destruction (obviously to kill masses). Hes also seeking support of other nations. He knows he couldn't stand an attack from the US and knows we will prolly kill him adventually. So why not take as many of us as he can. Thats what makes him dangerous.

I hate to spread rumors, but I heard the other morning on the Imus show that Iraq has a nuke. They have a Russian ICBM and has aquired a Chineese guidance system in it.

This information supposedly came from Israel and was presented to a congressional committe.

I was half sleeping when I heard this, and cannot confirm the story anywhere. I think it was delivered on the air by "Bo Deedle" but again, I was half asleep at the time.

Anyone else hear this stuff?

-t

I wouldn't doubt it. They certainly have the money to but that stuff.
I say we go in there and take Saddam's oil , sell it, and give the money to the people there so they can rebuild their country's economy and their lives.
Remember what that SOB did the last time. He set all the oil rigs on fire and it took like a year or two just to put out the fires.

I also have heard that the United States is currently talking with Russia to find out about us tapping into their oil supply. If that is done, then Iraq can kiss themselves goodbye. They receive a ton of help from the U.S. just in us buying their precious oil. If we don't have to anymore, then their economic stronghold will be gone. Bye bye...

As far as Saddam getting bumped off. If we wanted that to happen it would have a long time ago. From what I understand, his predecesor is worse than him. Plus, the U.S. government already knows quite a bit about Mr. Hussain so why go through an entire learning process on some new guy. We've toyed with him for the past decade and we still have the armed forces over there. Saddam and Iraq scare me about as much as the school bully did when he tried to take my lunch money.

Originally posted by markblair
Saddam and Iraq scare me about as much as the school bully did when he tried to take my lunch money.

What happened with the bully Mark?

I didn't think the US relied that heavily on Iraq for oil.

There was an embargo against them for quite some time and we survived just fine with out it.

Cheers

Originally posted by web docta
What happened with the bully Mark?

Well, as I stated, he tried to take my lunch money. Basically, I'm here and well... :D

Well, the problem is, is that if we kill Saddam really nothing good will come out it. From my point of view it looks as if everyone hates the US that lives there, so a heir to his throne would be just as bad, if not worse. The only way that I think the problem could be solved is if peace keepers were sent in from Several Different Countries, not just the US and the UK. I think that if the US and the UK were only there, then problems would be worse because people would create a little "militia" and go off and kill the soldiers. Okay I'm not really sure what I'm getting at here, so I'm just gonna shut up.

Also, I find it interesting to read the opinions of people from over in the Middle East. I live in the US, and really haven't had to deal with many wars, so their opinions really interests me.

Problem with killing Saddam is not that it would be hard, but its what would happen when we did...

Its a known fact that he has chemical and biological weapons, what happens when he dies? Does he military leadership take over? Which one would it be, the best guess is that there would be a civil war, and with the state of mind most of the islamic military leaders are in, I'm sure they'd use them to further their own causes....

You'll also notice we didn't fight Desert Storm to bring him from power, it was to set his military capability and weapons building capabilities back aprox. 10 years, the 10 years was up in 2001....

If he did aquire an ICBM, I'd some how doubt he'd use it to attack the US directly, launching a missle, would surely assure his complete destruction by our retalitory attacks. I think he'd prolly use it more as a scare weapon, besides, it prolly took him awhile to get the missle and warhead, and he would need to study it very closely for some time to learn to reproduce it...
We knew he'd get nuclear weapons, it was just a mater of time...

Sadam's army is stronger than we think.

But it's ok and safe for Israel to carry on building a nuclear arsenal?
And obviously Israel ISN'T a threat to no one except for a few hundred thousand palestians, who can be kicked and tossed around like some football:angry:

Originally posted by Radix
Until we instal a new leader in Iraq
What??? Who are you? Who do you think you are to install a presidend in another country? :mad: :angry:

BTW, do not forget who installed and supported to Sadam Hussein in Irak :rolleyes:

"Boom...Boom...Ready or not here comes the Boom!" - POD

The last time that I check, Irak was a country, because the embargo they can't sell all the oil that they want, but now they don't have the right either to not sell it???
Oh man.. this is too much for me

The army of IRAQ is not that strong. They are at 40% of the forces they were in 91 and I highly doubt that old russian made weapons can even touch our military. Remember how fast we wooped them the first time? Imagine how fast well take control this time with their military, and economy severly crippled. Its not like they are producing tanks, aircraft or getting any new anti aircraft weapons. Come on... I say its gonna be a two week war with less than half of our forces needed this time. KAAAAAAAABOOOOOOOOOM! :angry:

From what markblair was saying, I don't think we are gonna oust Saddem, I feel that this is almost in the same scenario as to how we delt with Castro, we hated him, wanted him out, couldn't do it, sort of left him alone and now he is no longer a problem.

Originally posted by phpjames
KAAAAAAAABOOOOOOOOOM!

Are you a child? :confused:

Originally posted by Jedito
because the embargo they can't sell all the oil that they want

But they sell their oil on black markets through countries like Turkey, the embargo didn't hit them such hard.

If we go to war with Iraq we can do whatever the hell we please to him. He threatens every American's life and that gives me the right. You want to know who I am? Well I'm American and I'm not going to let some [person] push me around.

If we go to war with Iraq we can do whatever the hell we please to him. He threatens every American's life and that gives me the right. You want to know who I am? Well I'm American and I'm not going to let some [person] push me around.

He threatens every persons life, not just Americans. As for the "turban head" part, I think that was kinda un-necessary, it's his religion. Now, I'm far from being religous, but when you have to sink that low to insult someone - you should stay quiet.

Originally posted by Radix
If we go to war with Iraq we can do whatever the hell we please to him.
Taking your point of view, because USA have a biggest Army than Irak, USA have the right to do whatever they want with them.

Probably I'm bigger than you, so, I have to right to do whetever I want to do with you, right?

Originally posted by phpjames
The army of IRAQ is not that strong. They are at 40% of the forces they were in 91 and I highly doubt that old russian made weapons can even touch our military. Remember how fast we wooped them the first time? Imagine how fast well take control this time with their military, and economy severly crippled. Its not like they are producing tanks, aircraft or getting any new anti aircraft weapons. Come on... I say its gonna be a two week war with less than half of our forces needed this time. KAAAAAAAABOOOOOOOOOM! :angry:

Not that I'm a cynicist, but what happened when everyone said the same about Vietnam?

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

We have to get other Arab countries on our side as we did in '91 before we can strike at Iraq - otherwise the reprisals would be huge.

we lost the vietnam war because it was ran as a politcal war in washington. and our generals were not allowed to make the needed decisions.

From the vietnam standpoint i do not think we should have even been there in the first place however iraq i do feel we have a right to be there

sadam needs to be eliminated but remember during desert storm when we were looking for him he would travel with bus loads of children to protect himself.

America would wipe out iraq within a month if needed but we dont want to wipe it out we just want the leader iraq is not the problem or the innocent people living there hussien is.

We must be verry verry carefull on how we throw words out there. Be aware that we are not only taking on Iraq but we are taking on the entire arab nation. And even if it was only Iraq that we are taking on saddam has been making weapons of mass destruction for years thats why he doesn't want our inspectors in his country we don't know what he has under his arms.

Also with all of the $hit that is going on with Israel and the palestinians we the (US) are not in a good stand with the arabs. Since Israel is our god child who we give billions of dollars a year is ignoring the call to withdraw from our president.

So again we gotta be verry verry carefull if we go in there we might get nailed heck even kuwait who we saved their a$$ is against us because of Israel.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by inogenius
[B]

He threatens every persons life, not just Americans. As for the "turban head" part, I think that was kinda un-necessary, it's his religion. Now, I'm far from being religous, but when you have to sink that low to insult someone - you should stay quiet.

Hes only a threat to Israel and the US unless we go to war with Iraq and other nations pull in. Why? Because he will use his weapons on the US/Israel first. Briton, for example, he wouldn't waste a nuke on when hes got bigger fish to fry. Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them). In general the are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. If you read the news its not just Iraq we are about to have problems with, but pretty much all arabs. Sure there are exceptions but in general all of them are the same. So frankly I don't care what you think kinda un-necessary or what you think in general.

Originally posted by Radix
in general all of them are the same.

Grow up.

Turban heads? All Arabs are the same? That is exactly why most of the world dislikes the US. We are all arrogant.

I was disappointed that we went in to Afghanistan and started bombing "military targets." We have now successfully killed more innocent Afghani citizens than innocent US citizens were killed on 9/11. Now we're talking about going in to Iraq?

When will there be a President that actually cares about the people? Do any of you really think Bush is concerned with those who died in the world trade center? It seems much more likely he doesn't want another attack because of the financial implications (stock market dove after the attacks, and was closed for about a week after).

We are simply being told that certain countries are inhabited by evil people, and we are believing it. Most people have the attitude, "I don't care who we attack as long as I'm safe here." That is really not the best attitude to have. It seems, as a people, that we keep making the same mistakes over again.

ill explain a pet theory of mine which i quite like. i make no comment about who started what or who deserved what, but, in a situation where two sides are fighting with innocents suffering heres what i propose. build a big wall round em. seperate em. if they want to trade then use a third party. if they throw things over the wall get a big hose and start pouring water in. then when they come to their senses after a few days swimming pull the plug. now this isnt like actually building a wall, its more of an analogy. where there is a disagreement where there can be no resolution, and there will be no peace in northern ireland or palestine etc while religion and money \ land is involved.

seperate the sides, ensure they can both get by (if they have money for tanks then at least one side has too much money, possibly narrow minded but you know what i mean, resources better placed elsewhere) and keep em apart. then leave em alone unless they kick up a fuss.

i feel great sympathy for the americans after such a cowardly attack, the pentagon is a justifiable military target, planes of people arent justifiable weapons and skyscrapers full of normal people arent jutifiable targets. so you do what they do and move the goal posts. i think the us were very reserved in their approach. they could have levelled the country top to bottom. i regret deeply the loss of any innocent lives, afghani or american. but needs must, he couldnt be allowed to get away with this. the us tried to minimise collateral damage. the iraq thing, its bit of bush family history. iraqs dangerous. they have money and oil, they have power and can strike or fund strikes. theyre headed by someone who makes maggie thatcher at the peak of her belgrano blowing up madness look a picture of logic and tranquility. hes power mad. he hates the usa and the west. hes a wild cannon and needs to be neutered. if the route the world chooses is to to takehim out, then go in hard and fast and be accurate. no half measures. no surrender, extract him and let him face trial. or start building that wall.

First off, Sadaam has quite a few look alikes. When you see him in the open, are you sure it is him? As soon as one of his lookalikes was shot down, he would go into hiding.

As far as nukes go, even Russia and China have very few that could actually reach us. What's left of Russian is falling apart and need replacement parts. If it is Russian rockets they have, I'm not too worried. They would most likely explode on launch :D

It's not us against Arabs. Most are with us, but have a concern. Who is worse? Iraq? Or a U.S. occupied Iraq? That is what they worry about.

As for oil. Did you know there is more oil under the U.S. than all of Middle East? The problem is that it is currently cheaper to import. In the U.S. there are too many hands in the pot. It's good though, use the rest of the world's oil before we use our own. In a "real" crisis we have ours to fall back on, even if it is expensive. It's better to pay more than to have none at all. I hear that by the end of summer, it's expected gas will be close to $3 a gallon. Maybe I heard from someone who knew more than I thought. Iraq not selling us oil will make gas go up in price because it's a good excuse for the oil companies to do so. All gas stations should go on strike, not sell gas, to force it's price down.

"In general" "sure there are exceptions" are just some of the words I used. If you would actually read and stop playing the ignorant game you would realize I wasn't talking about all arabs. Many people hate the U.S. because we are the strongest nation in the world. As a matter of fact we are the only world power. Others hate us because they don't understand us. Many people assume a lot about a country they know very little about. I on the other hand happen to know lots of arabs and they are rude and inconsiderate. So I think some of you are the ones who need to grow up and open your eyes to see the world for what it really is. :rolleyes:

Radix, not to take it personal, but can you tell me how old are you?

"In general" "sure there are exceptions" are just some of the words I used."Sure there are exceptions" implies that the majority of arabs are rude and inconsiderate, and the minority aren't. "In general" is obviously a generalization, which can not carry any weight simply because you don't know every Arab, and you never will.

If you would actually read and stop playing the ignorant game you would realize I wasn't talking about all arabs.You DID make generalizations, which ARE wrong. But of course you are right, and of course I'm wrong. Why? Because you're arrogant.

Just a point. Arabs, or any other foreigners, can often come across as being rude not because of their intent, but because of linguistic, cultural and communication differences (and difficulties) between you and them. Body language in particular can mean different things in different parts of the world.

You may find that they think you are being rude also. You just need to realise that they're not necessarily being rude, you may just be misunderstanding them, and they may be misunderstanding you.

Originally posted by Radix
"In general" "sure there are exceptions" are just some of the words I used. If you would actually read and stop playing the ignorant game you would realize I wasn't talking about all arabs. Many people hate the U.S. because we are the strongest nation in the world. As a matter of fact we are the only world power. Others hate us because they don't understand us. Many people assume a lot about a country they know very little about. I on the other hand happen to know lots of arabs and they are rude and inconsiderate. So I think some of you are the ones who need to grow up and open your eyes to see the world for what it really is. :rolleyes:

"Many people assume a lot about a country they know very little about"... and you aren't doing worse by assuming to know a lot about a whole region? Name all of the arab league countries off the top of your head. If you can't then how can you even start to make generalizations about ALL arab people?

Just because you happen to know a lot of Arabs DOES NOT justify an inference that you know anything at all about them. To know about a culture in any detail whatsoever, you have to live In That culture for months, even years. You dont just make presumptions about people because 'you know many of them'. Even if you knew 100 arabs who are rude, that in no way means the other MILLIONS of arabs are the same. Who knows, they might just be rude to only you because of your slanted thoughts.

If anything I find you to be the one who is rude for making such loaded statements when all you have to back it up is personal opinion.

I'm asian and I know many americans who are rude. Therefore, in general americans are rude? Does that inference seem right to any of you? Blah.

<example>
The Arabs I know are a few of my customers. They call me up always yelling, even if nothing is wrong.
Arabs are bad!
</example>

Come on people, stereotypes suck. Open up your mind. I look at my fellow Americans, and I am EMBARESSED! People will see them and think all Americans are like that!

I believe America is a great country and I am proud to be an American, I would not like to live anywhere else. I don't agree with many Americans, but hell, they are people that just live in a place. Seperate the country from the people... unless the country is run under a dictatorship that kills innocent people with no remorse with the sound of victory playing on the television sets...

Its 2:24 am, what did I just write :)

Originally posted by TheException
War solves nothing.
We need more international negotiators in our world, and less military leaders...

That's completely untrue. Sometimes it might not, but it often can solve a lot -- if it didn't, there would be no reason for it. War is horrible, but that's not to say that there's never a reason or that it's not the only way. Sometimes it is.

Originally posted by Wavmeister
First off, Sadaam has quite a few look alikes. When you see him in the open, are you sure it is him? As soon as one of his lookalikes was shot down, he would go into hiding.

As far as nukes go, even Russia and China have very few that could actually reach us. What's left of Russian is falling apart and need replacement parts. If it is Russian rockets they have, I'm not too worried. They would most likely explode on launch :D

[SNIP]



Don't count on that happening. The Russians built much more powerful weapons than the US did in the old war. In fact, so powerful, they were afraid to even test them, and the only time that did, is to have them at a quarter of the size they would have been. I don't think Russia or the US ever dared to fully test their largest weapons, because it would have poisoned too many people with fallout, no matter where in the world they detinated them. All those videos of them setting off bombs is nothing to what they could have displayed. I'm glad neither country was bold (or stupid, or evil) enough to go that far.

Originally posted by The Prohacker


[SNIP]

If he did aquire an ICBM, I'd some how doubt he'd use it to attack the US directly, launching a missle, would surely assure his complete destruction by our retalitory attacks.

[SNIP]



The points I'd make about this, assuming they had this weapon (I haven't heard anything, and I think more of us would have by now, if this was a fact), that even with one, or a few. There's plenty of time and means for us to shoot it down and not risk being hit. The problem would be a massive amount of them -- too many to take down. Not over one or two countries have that many, I don't think, and Iraq will never get to the point where they'd have enough before we completely took them out and turned their country to rubble. So, there's no reason to even wonder, as far as I'm concerned.

However, another point I'd make, would be that to some countries, some leaders, and some of their beliefs, you can bet that if they had the means, even if it meant their utter annihilation with no person left, they'd push the button. If we go and tell some small country what to do, even if we should if they are so wrong and actions must be taken for peace or for safety, that they are simply going to see it as having nothing to loose. Their little country is al they have, us (The USA I mean) or anyone else taking them over, they'd rather die than live by our laws and standards.

Therefore, they have nothing to loose, since the only world they knew and believed in, would then be gone anyway. This of course, doesn't mean the people in masses (as in citizens of those countries all thinking this way, or even the majority), but there's some pretty insane dictators around that call the shots in those parts of the world, and if they had the means, they'd be more than happy to destroy the world, rather than having some other culture and some other system tell them what to do. So, meaning destruction or no, I bet Saddam for one, at least, would go for it. I could be wrong, but I won't have any tears if him and anyone like him is blasted to infinity.

Originally posted by 9onlinehost

sadam needs to be eliminated but remember during desert storm when we were looking for him he would travel with bus loads of children to protect himself.


Is it just me, or do you think Saddam watched too many super villain movies to get his ideas of how to protect himself? The big, scary dictator now shivers and cowers behind a crowd of children and says "Come get me, Superman!"

Some of you people here scare the crap out of me....:erm:

Originally posted by Radix

Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them). In general the are inconsiderate and think we owe them something.


Jeb, how do you manage to type with that weed in your mouth, a shot gun in one hand and your moonshine in the other, and all with a big floppy eared bloodhound in your lap?

One of the most irrational, unreasonable and dirty things in this world, is racism. Absolutely no motivation or rationalization whatsoever, it's the most unintelligent thing that can come out of someone's mouth.

Say you know "A LOT" (I remembered to type it in UPPER CASE, if that helps) of Arabs. How many would that be? What exactly did they say or do to you? I doubt you "KNOW" any, for one thing. Simply due to the fact that you have to get enough experience with that one person, to know them. If someone's as bad as you claim, you'd not have a chance to "know" them. I see a lot of people of all races and some I don't like immediately for what they do or say, but I don't know them, and that certainly doesn't make me qualified to make a judgement on all the people of that race.

That's rdiculous. That's like someone saying that I am like you, because they run into 40 other people that speak with hatred and ignorance online that are involved in webhosting. I'm nothing like you, for one thing, but we're all here. Not just something we're born with, or raised as, but even by choice. That's where liability as a person lies -- what you do by choice. We come here and debate or argue by choice. So, it would be more accurate to say that you and I are alike, than everyone of one race or citizenship. In fact, neither are accurate, and I stress the point, that I'm nothing like you. Do you get it?

Do you see how ridiculous that claim is? Perhaps you ran into 20 or 30 Arabs that came across as rude (probably because you were being rude to them, whether you realize it or not), but you might have ran into the 21st or 31st Arab and them and every other Arab you met from then on could have been the most decent person you'd ever have met and you'd be glad you met them. In fact, to even admit that there's got to be some Arab that's kind and decent, would be a start, or are you seriously that stupid to believe that you are insightful enough to claim this about an entire population of people based on their race, religion or region? One last question; What year is it where you are? (Wait, that doesn't help justify it). I think what I'm trying to say here is, you suck -- and everyone like you sucks (I just don't assume 'everyone' is like you.)

Originally posted by biosphere
Some of you people here scare the crap out of me....:erm:

OH YEAH!? OH YEAH!? Ya wannt FIGHT!???

Good point...

Originally posted by Radix
"In general" "sure there are exceptions" are just some of the words I used.

And here's another few words you used:

"I don't like any Arabs"

<insert sarcastic "rolling eyes" and "sighing" expressions to play it down and act like you are overreacting>

Originally posted by cimshimy
Turban heads? All Arabs are the same? That is exactly why most of the world dislikes the US. We are all arrogant.

I was disappointed that we went in to Afghanistan and started bombing "military targets." We have now successfully killed more innocent Afghani citizens than innocent US citizens were killed on 9/11. Now we're talking about going in to Iraq?

[SNIP]

We are simply being told that certain countries are inhabited by evil people, and we are believing it. Most people have the attitude, "I don't care who we attack as long as I'm safe here." That is really not the best attitude to have. It seems, as a people, that we keep making the same mistakes over again.

No offense, but you use the word "we", entirely too often in your response. That is just as unfair as his statements and I don't appreciate it.

On a small point, without covering all your post (because I do agree that "they" -- NOT "we" might be doing some stuff wrong):

"We are simply being told that certain countries are inhabited by evil people, and we are believing it."

And, that, is a lot of the reason why 'we' (America) are hated, and you just supported that theory about how people will "believe it" (you obviously do!) by even claiming this about "us". You've just countered your entire thread. I'm me, you're you, and we are not a "we" -- so speak for yourself when you make your points. I, as an American citizen, am not at all like 'Jeb' there, and neither are you if you don't agree with him either, but don't defeat the purpose of your point, by lumping "all" Americans into a "we", or you've just committed that very atrocious act that good 'ol "Jeb" just did.

And, that, is a lot of the reason why 'we' (America) are hated, and you just supported that theory about how people will "believe it" (you obviously do!) by even claiming this about "us". You've just countered your entire thread. I'm me, you're you, and we are not a "we" -- so speak for yourself when you make your points. I, as an American citizen, am not at all like 'Jeb' there, and neither are you if you don't agree with him either, but don't defeat the purpose of your point, by lumping "all" Americans into a "we", or you've just committed that very atrocious act that good 'ol "Jeb" just did.I did not once make a generalization in the same way Jeb did. I used "we" to emphasize that ALL US citizens are responsible when they simply keep their mouths shut and blindly agree to whatever military decision is made. Although it is a fact that some don't agree, and voice their opinions, the majority don't. And that is fact based, not "all arabs are the same."

Are you out there fighting in Afghanistan? No. Would you deny that we, the United States, are fighting there?

My meaning by saying "We are simply being told that certain countries are inhabited by evil people, and we are believing it." is that we, the citizens of the United States, are being told that particular countries are in an "axis of evil," and as a whole, we must be believing it -- otherwise there would be huge protests. I think I did mention "as a people" we are making the same mistakes; note how that does not necessarily mean every individual is.

Originally posted by Tim_Greer

if it didn't, there would be no reason for it.

This is a fallacy. Usually war are do it because economical or political reasons, How do you justify the HUGE invasion in Panama (their don't even have an Army), the invasion to Haiti (they don't have army either).
Its odd that they happened when the USA economy was low, aswell the President popularity.

Same its happening here, Bush couldn't caught to Bin Laden, then, "let's go to the other evil".

Both Bush (father and son) are two muppets, and their foreign relationship political sucks.

Wow that is kinda weird Jedito. I look back at nearly every war, and almost all of them have been in bad economic times. However when the USA bombed Iraq in '98(?) for not letting the United Nations inspectors do their job, the economy was pretty good. It has also been rumored that the USA has been after Saddam for the past 3-4 years, now we are just acting out on it.

If I'm not bad remember, Bush (father) image in that time was pretty low, and it climbed it after the desert storm, or am I wrong?
BTW, Kuwait have oil, do not forget it :)
I remember the Ecuatorian invasion in Peru, more or less in the same time than the Irak invasion in Kuwait, but I didn't see there the USA Army ;) , but hey, what a hell, peru its poor, and have nothing to share with USA, set let's them kill alone.

Originally posted by cimshimy
"Sure there are exceptions" implies that the majority of arabs are rude and inconsiderate, and the minority aren't. "In general" is obviously a generalization, which can not carry any weight simply because you don't know every Arab, and you never will.

You DID make generalizations, which ARE wrong. But of course you are right, and of course I'm wrong. Why? Because you're arrogant.


generalization

n 1: "reasoning" from "detailed facts" to general principles

You said it yourself! I have worked with arabs and have been around them for a good bit of my life. I know very well of their culture prolly better than most of you on this forum. As Cimshimy indirectly said himself I base my generalizations on detailed facts and reasoning. A generalization is a "general" belief. So if its wrong to think based on reasioning and detailed facts then maybe I am evil but I'm by no means arrogant (so I guess you are right you are arrogant). As for stereotypes that is another word that means something else that does not apply to me. As for grammar well nobody on here has perfect grammar so I wouldn't pick on someone because of that. That would be a hypocrite.
:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Tim_Greer


Jeb, how do you manage to type with that weed in your mouth, a shot gun in one hand and your moonshine in the other, and all with a big floppy eared bloodhound in your lap?

One of the most irrational, unreasonable and dirty things in this world, is racism. Absolutely no motivation or rationalization whatsoever, it's the most unintelligent thing that can come out of someone's mouth.

Say you know "A LOT" (I remembered to type it in UPPER CASE, if that helps) of Arabs. How many would that be? What exactly did they say or do to you? I doubt you "KNOW" any, for one thing. Simply due to the fact that you have to get enough experience with that one person, to know them. If someone's as bad as you claim, you'd not have a chance to "know" them. I see a lot of people of all races and some I don't like immediately for what they do or say, but I don't know them, and that certainly doesn't make me qualified to make a judgement on all the people of that race.

That's rdiculous. That's like someone saying that I am like you, because they run into 40 other people that speak with hatred and ignorance online that are involved in webhosting. I'm nothing like you, for one thing, but we're all here. Not just something we're born with, or raised as, but even by choice. That's where liability as a person lies -- what you do by choice. We come here and debate or argue by choice. So, it would be more accurate to say that you and I are alike, than everyone of one race or citizenship. In fact, neither are accurate, and I stress the point, that I'm nothing like you. Do you get it?

Do you see how ridiculous that claim is? Perhaps you ran into 20 or 30 Arabs that came across as rude (probably because you were being rude to them, whether you realize it or not), but you might have ran into the 21st or 31st Arab and them and every other Arab you met from then on could have been the most decent person you'd ever have met and you'd be glad you met them. In fact, to even admit that there's got to be some Arab that's kind and decent, would be a start, or are you seriously that stupid to believe that you are insightful enough to claim this about an entire population of people based on their race, religion or region? One last question; What year is it where you are? (Wait, that doesn't help justify it). I think what I'm trying to say here is, you suck -- and everyone like you sucks (I just don't assume 'everyone' is like you.)

I think my last post explains why your an idiot (I base that on facts). All I said was out of all of the arabs I know, not all of them. The discriminatory and abusive words coming from your mouth are based on no facts or reasoning (all of that fuels racism). So if you are trying to imply (which I think you are) Im racist you are a hypocrite and one yourself.

I think my last post explains why your an idiot (I base that on facts). All I said was out of all of the arabs I know, not all of them. The discriminatory and abusive words coming from your mouth are based on no facts or reasoning (all of that fuels racism). So if you are trying to imply (which I think you are) Im racist you are a hypocrite and one yourself.How could you possibly try to justify saying that ALL Arabs are "inconsiderate" and "the same?"

Originally posted by allending


"Many people assume a lot about a country they know very little about"... and you aren't doing worse by assuming to know a lot about a whole region? Name all of the arab league countries off the top of your head. If you can't then how can you even start to make generalizations about ALL arab people?

Just because you happen to know a lot of Arabs DOES NOT justify an inference that you know anything at all about them. To know about a culture in any detail whatsoever, you have to live In That culture for months, even years. You dont just make presumptions about people because 'you know many of them'. Even if you knew 100 arabs who are rude, that in no way means the other MILLIONS of arabs are the same. Who knows, they might just be rude to only you because of your slanted thoughts.

If anything I find you to be the one who is rude for making such loaded statements when all you have to back it up is personal opinion.

I'm asian and I know many americans who are rude. Therefore, in general americans are rude? Does that inference seem right to any of you? Blah.



I would also like to reply to your comments. I accepted that not all arabs are the same, but not all people in other countries have accepted that of the US. Sept. 11, for example, was an attack of civillians whom many weren't american anyways. The attack on the pentagon was also wrong (the reasons for the attack were incorrect) but it was a military related building after all. I don't regard Pearl Harbor as evil for that reason. Thats is why Israel has the right to do what is needed. The terrorists attack them and they have to do something about it. the Pallys support them and they must pay for it and they are to blame for the innocent people who get involved, not Israel. One thing we all can agree on is war sucks but hey it solves as many problems as it causes sometimes. Thats is why we need to solve our problems in Iraq.

Originally posted by cimshimy
How could you possibly try to justify saying that ALL Arabs are "inconsiderate" and "the same?"



How many times do I have to say it thats not what I said. You just posted the part that you wanted to hear but if you read the "Whole" post you would realize thats not what I said. Visit an eye doctor and get that taken care of please... :confused:

Originally posted by Radix

. Thats is why Israel has the right to do what is needed. The terrorists attack them and they have to do something about it. the Pallys support them and they must pay for it and they are to blame for the innocent people who get involved, not Israel.

What Israel its doing and did, its PLAIN WRONG, you can't justify it.
They are killing inocent people, they don't care if you're catholic, muslim or none of them.
BTW, Israel wasen't a country until 1948, when the UN decided to kick the palestines butt and create that country in Palestines territories, so, who was the terrorist there?

The US did the same to the Indians and Mexicans. To justify it they said they weren't industrializing the land like they should and stuff like that. Well actually the US bought much of our land but nothing makes it right what the US did. But are you telling me that you're going to give up your home to a Native American because he said it isn't yours? NO. Over time things change and like it or not it is there land now. And thats actually not entirely true that they took the land but yeah it wasn't right none the less. Even if you don't live in the US think about it... how many countries can say that a different civilization didn't once own their land?

O yea the Palestines are the ones breaking the peace. Israel is just trying to survive. Neither side is 100% innocent but I would side with Israel any day just as Bush did. In war innocent people die. I wasn't there when thses battles took place so for all I know they were fired on. You are right though, innocent people will die... I blame people like Yatzerarafatt however u spell it.

As far as I know India was colonized by England, not USA.

Please excuse me, but english its not my native language as you may noticied, but I don't fully understand

But are you telling me that you're going to give up your home to a Native American because he said it isn't yours? NO. Over time things change and like it or not it is there land now


Are you contradicting there?

If you're saying that a country should give up their territory because he lost a war, I'm not with you.
We (Argentina) lost a war in 1982 against UK (Malvinas, Falkland for English), and you can ask to every Argentinian citizen if we gived up that territory, we didin't because it's our, plain and simple.

I'll try to explain US history a lil bit. Indians from India migrated to the US. They were the first to live in the Americas (It is rumored that others had visited the Americas before them thought). Then Great Briton moved in to the americas an made collonies. Most Indians supported this and allowed it. Then the US broke away from Briton in the Revolutionary war. I think (or was it the civial war?) it was called the shot heard around the world because it started a chain of revolutions in France, latin America, and many other countries. After we broke away we began to expand westward buying land from Nepoleon, the Indians, and the British. Meanwhile the US forced the Native americans off their rightful land. The US also started to settel in Mexico. At some point they felt it was there land and decided to take it. That started the Mexican American War. Of course we won and took Texas and some other land. I might be leaving something out... but I'm no historian either so plz excuse me =).

I'm actually studying the history of India right. Quite amazing how bad they were treated by the British. With the lying to the sepoys (Indian Army) and how the rest of them were treated as second class citizens. One law that was very harsh was the Rowlatt Act, it allowed Britain to jail protesters without trial for up to 2 years. In protest of that law, the Muslims and Hindus came together, and demonstrated their disapproval. The British then opened fire on them, killing 400 and injuring 1,200. This basically where Gandhi comes into play and became a leader for independence. He then setup a boycott of British goods, refusal to pay taxes... etc. This eventually took a major toll on the British economy. And that's pretty much as far as I've gotten. I don't have my History book with me right now, so I unfortunately can't ramble on anymore.

Then the US broke away from Briton in the Revolutionary war. I think (or was it the civial war?)
That was the Revolutionary war. Cival war was when the South States broke away from the US, and the North Declared war on the South. And no, this was not completely caused by slavery.

Slavery was almost over anyways due to the cotton Jen. Then they could of fought politically instead of through war. Actually Jedito your english is pretty good just sometimes you word things in ways that don't make sense. But hell, thats most of americans anyways. :blush: I'm learning Spanish... not that hard a language I might add

How many times do I have to say it thats not what I said. You just posted the part that you wanted to hear but if you read the "Whole" post you would realize thats not what I said. Visit an eye doctor and get that taken care of please...Hey, I just read your post again and it still says the same thing. Why don't you lay off the needless insults?

Indians from India migrated to the US.You do realize that some call Native Americans "Indians" today because it was first thought that America was actually India, right? The theory of the first people to reach America is via the bering strait, which supposedly connected Alaska and Siberia.

Yeah, I too am learning spanish. It's not hard, just requires some major critical thinking at times. The Infinitives aren't really that hard, nor are "Go" Verbs (Tengo, Vengo..etc) neither are the "shoe" verbs (Empiezar). It's the sentence structure where you have to put the adjectives somewhere different then how it is in English.

Originally posted by cimshimy
Hey, I just read your post again and it still says the same thing. Why don't you lay off the needless insults?

You do realize that some call Native Americans "Indians" today because it was first thought that America was actually India, right? The theory of the first people to reach America is via the bering strait, which supposedly connected Alaska and Siberia.

Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them).
In ----->"general"<---- they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure ---->"there are exceptions"<---- but ----->"in general"<----- all of them are the same.

I'm not going to repeat it again. You are justing reading words but not the whole thing. I think you may need to visit a mental doctor as well If it takes 4 posts to get you to understand something so simple. I was going to see about blowing the text up incase its a vision problem but it looks like I can't. "I hate arabs" doesn't say I hate them "all" (actually I was talking about THE ONES I KNOW). It is explained what I think of them not as a whole, if you read the next lines of text.

I'm not going to repeat it again. You are justing reading words but not the whole thing. I think you may need to visit a mental doctor as well If it takes 4 posts to get you to understand something so simple. I was going to see about blowing the text up incase its a vision problem but it looks like I can't. "I hate arabs" doesn't say I hate them "all" (actually I was talking about THE ONES I KNOW). It is explained what I think of them not as a whole, if you read the next lines of text.I give up. You are absolutely not worth my time.

In other words you realize I was right

Originally posted by Radix
In other words you realize I was right

I think what he means is that you can get a better response when talking to a brick wall.

I don't see how you can give us a lesson on American history when your basic facts are wrong.

Racism is wrong. Inept and ignorant comments like yours fuel racism. Yes, Arab extremists who plot to blow up the West are, do pretty much deserve what they get. But normal Arabs generally are good people.

Go back to school.

Perhaps looking at it piece by piece might help explain what the fuss is about Radix:

Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them).

It may do your argument some good to explain how many "A LOT" actually is. A thousand is a lot to one person, a dozen is a lot to another. But you've said you "don't like any Arabs", and so are pushing your opinion of those Arabs you have met onto all other Arabs. By definition, that is racism, as you are judging individuals by your impression of the group.

In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something.

Are you implying that you have a bone to pick with all Arabs because you've found that the ones you have met are inconsiderate? I think you'll find that measured responses are always more appropriate.

Sure "there are exceptions"

I'm glad you realise this, but I think you'll find there are more exceptions to your judgement then followers, as it seems to be based off so little.

"in general" all of them are the same.

This point just doesn't make any sense at all. "In general" implies that they are not all the same. Rather, it means that as a group, they collectively display particular characteristics, but there are exceptions. In most cases, that would be based on the majority of members of the group displaying a particular characteristic. To say "in general all of them are the same" is equivalent to saying "they are all the same". You're throwing in the word "general" thinking that it makes everything fine, but in this context it certainly does not.

The problem is, that if you were to pick an individual member of the group, you are not in a position to judge that person individually. You are trying to apply your impression of the group to which they belong to judge them as an individual. So you're labelling an individual with the characteristics of others. If the group happens to be racially based, then again, that is racism. If you want to judge an individual, judge them on their own characteristics. If you want to judge a group, then you need to realise you are judging the individuals in that group also.

If that is not what you're trying to do, you would do well to clarify your point by explaining it another way, rather than repeating the same vague words over and over and trying to ram them down people's throats. It's obvious from others' responses in this thread that what you've said is ambiguous and open to misunderstanding.

Your petty insults are also very pathetic. It takes two to communicate. If people can't understand you, half the fault lies at your end. Don't assume they heard you wrong, assume you told them wrong.

Originally posted by Radix


Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them).
In ----->"general"<---- they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure ---->"there are exceptions"<---- but ----->"in general"<----- all of them are the same.

I'm not going to repeat it again. You are justing reading words but not the whole thing. I think you may need to visit a mental doctor as well If it takes 4 posts to get you to understand something so simple. I was going to see about blowing the text up incase its a vision problem but it looks like I can't. "I hate arabs" doesn't say I hate them "all" (actually I was talking about THE ONES I KNOW). It is explained what I think of them not as a whole, if you read the next lines of text.
You are wrong. How you can't see it is beyond me, and most of the people on the forum.

What you meant was...

"In my experiences with Arab individuals (insert number here), I have found several of these people to be inconsiderate."

When you apply your very limited experiences to the entire Arab population ("in general") this is where you go from descibing your experiences to sterotyping the entire race (with some "exceptions").

If you can't somehow understand this still, then try to see if you wouldn't be offened by:

Personally I don't like any person named Steve (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

Personally I don't like any Europeans (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

Personally I don't like any Anericans (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

Personally I don't like any <insert Radix's last name> (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

Personally I don't like any <insert Radix's religion> (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.


It just sounds better and better the more you read it, eh? Be sure to preface these statements with some sort of religious or ethnic slur just so people know you're not racist like, "beenie wearin' Jew" or "greasy Italian" or "turban head".

I will comment on a few things here.

The native american issue is a sad thing and i do not agree with what was done in the past however my family blood lines do not start in america until world war I when my grandfather moved here from italy to fight in the war and gain his citenzenship you do realize that america is a melting pot and a huge percentage of people living here have no blood lines back to those days. Now as far as americans being rude and arrogant i traveled europe for 2 months last year and found americans were treated horribly i was astonished at the way we were treated in germany and france. Germany the most

this topic has gone way off but is opening a good discussion on things i dont see what a persons country has to do with anything really every country has its no good people its repsonsible helping people i can find a good hearted person in germany the same i can in america and i can find a criminal in germany the same i can in america it doesnt matter where you are from we are all the same

:uzi:BLAST'EM

I spent 8 years in the Air Force '84 - '92. We've tried to negotiate with them, it's not working.

:flamethr:BLAST'EM

I beleive Military force is the only solution.

punaboy i understand where your coming from and it certainly is a course of action that could be taken, but should that course be taken (the wade in teacher style in the middle and start clipping ears) all that would be achieved is wed piss em alllllll off, wed have two more countried flying loaded passenger jets into buildings and two more races \ religions getting high and mighty.
there are two more realistic routes
1 - if you can live with doing it, do nothing, the western world created this situation to the best of my understanding, but to some extent it was inevitable as you cant have a race wandering about the place.
2 - physically seperate them, and reward any agression between them with sanctions. if it takes the berlin wall over again then so be it. if they cant play nice then they dont play at all. if they fire weapons at each other take them off them, build a big wall round them and stop them getting any more, stop them going in each others territory etc etc. not a perfect plan, i know there is land with religous significance but if you cant behave like sensible adults then you will be treated like children, if you blow up each other you will be treated with the contempt you deserve.

ps i found germans a wonderful if a little quirky people. im british and ive had a few wanders round europe, the people are generally very nice, the french if im honest are the worst ive met but theyre still reasonble. the spanish are incredibly laid back and generally dont care as being nasty would require effort. the dutch are just a riot. the germans respond very well and with great patience to anyone esp a brit stumbling through their language. the italians remind me of me. complete idiots who know how to live. they know whats important in life. americans also know how to make ya feel welcome. sorry you didnt find europe a nice place mate, if youd come round my way youd have got a better welcome, if you could suffer a few jokes :) oh and as for the french they way to deal with them is to not put up with any crap. its a test and they get far better when you call them back to explain why your food is lukewarm. i havent a clue what mindgames are going on there but it works. once again tho the key is learning a little of the language to show some respect.

richy,

I understand and I hear you. My comments above are in short, my initial reactions. I am hardcore military all the way. Those types of countries brainwash their citizens to believe that Americans are evil. Citizens that can't be won over are considered traders and hidden from society. I know we can't go to the middle east and just fly into building to kill civilians, but fighting fire with fire, we need take action and strong arm the situation.

It will never end, Sadam, Bin Laden, who's next? We (rest of the world) need to make certain that they know we will not allow such idiotic decisions. No civilized nation and religion would ever do what they are doing.

I believe there are no right or wrong beliefs, only different. But when a nation(s) thinks you are evil and want to kill you because of your lifestyle, that's wrong.

I don't want to kill them because women can't eat in the same restaurants as men. But when they kill thousands of inocent people, it's time too start kickin' ass.

:uzi:

Originally posted by punaboy
I believe there are no right or wrong beliefs, only different. But when a nation(s) thinks you are evil and want to kill you because of your lifestyle, that's wrong.


The problem is that it's not the entire nation that thinks America is evil, just the guys at the top. If you then retaliate, there is even a greater loss of innocent human life. What you're essentially saying is that it was inexcusable for them to attack America because of the actions of America's leaders, yet excusable for America to attack them because of the actions of their leaders.

Those types of countries brainwash their citizens to believe that Americans are evil. Citizens that can't be won over are considered traders and hidden from society.

Did you get that from your own experience in the air force, or was it the government that told you that? Are you sure it wasn't propaganda from your own government effectively trying to brainwash you? The American government has always used propaganda as an effective tool to get citizens onside, as have most (or all).

Originally posted by dektong


I wonder how the suicidal bombers spend that money ... :eek:

cheers,
:beer:

Do you have any idea how expensive epxlosives are these days? ;)

Did you get that from your own experience in the air force, or was it the government that told you that? Are you sure it wasn't propaganda from your own government effectively trying to brainwash you? The American government has always used propaganda as an effective tool to get citizens onside, as have most (or all).

LOL very true, but no, it was thought all on my own assumptions.

The problem is that it's not the entire nation that thinks America is evil, just the guys at the top.

That's why is mentioned about -- Citizens that can't be won over are considered traders and hidden from society -- Or killed by their own government.

What you're essentially saying is that it was inexcusable for them to attack America because of the actions of America's leaders, yet excusable for America to attack them because of the actions of their leaders.

It is inexcusable to knowingly attack civilian targets.
It's a little different to attack military targets, as all military personnel know the risk they take. I don't want to see anymore people die (civilian or military), but it is part of military life. As of today, I still feel the same even thought I recieved an honorable discharge and seperated.

Ever since the end of Desert Storm, the US government has been to lacks in our defense. Too many cut backs, we need to beef it up and keep it that way.

It is inexcusable to knowingly attack civilian targets

I know what you mean, but I'd use the word "deliberately" rather than "knowingly". When they conduct an attack like they did in Afganistan, they know that civilians will be killed, and there must be some acknowledgement that some of their targets may be mistakedly identified as military when they're really civilian targets (like that convoy of vehicles in the Afgan bombings, I seem to recall). But if they're attacked deliberately, then certainly that is inexcusable.

I agree that military targets are justified though, as long as they pose some threat. Like you said, military personnel know the risks they take. The problem is that military attacks by America seem to be very short term solutions. They stop the terrorists in the short term, but in the long run they'll be back again, after the next generation grows up with images of American bombers flying overhead in their childhood.

Originally posted by punaboy
Those types of countries brainwash their citizens to believe that Americans are evil.

What was the name of the USA operation in afghanistan?

Originally posted by voxtreme-matt


I think what he means is that you can get a better response when talking to a brick wall.

I don't see how you can give us a lesson on American history when your basic facts are wrong.

Racism is wrong. Inept and ignorant comments like yours fuel racism. Yes, Arab extremists who plot to blow up the West are, do pretty much deserve what they get. But normal Arabs generally are good people.

Go back to school.

Seeing as a brick wall wont talk back and your talking to me, then you must talk to a lot of walls. People who go around talking to walls also need to visit a mental doctor because going back to school wont help them. And what do you mean by normal? Normal is an opinion. I might think normal means something to what you think it means. You say "normal arabs GENERALLY are good" which is false. You are trying to make generaliztions about something that is an opinion. When I just explained that a generalization can only be based on facts (look it up in the dictionary if you don't think so).

What was the name of the USA operation in afghanistan?

Anaconda?

Personally I don't like any Arabs (I know A LOT of them). In general the are inconsiderate and think we owe them something.

Normal is an opinion. I might think normal means something to what you think it means. You say "normal arabs GENERALLY are good" which is false. You are trying to make generaliztions about something that is an opinion. When I just explained that a generalization can only be based on facts (look it up in the dictionary if you don't think so).

Did you just completely contradict yourself?

The problem is that military attacks by America seem to be very short term solutions. They stop the terrorists in the short term, but in the long run they'll be back again, after the next generation grows up with images of American bombers flying overhead in their childhood.

Yep, like I said, it will never end. We need stronger FIRE. I think the only way is to try and keep them "in check". You know how security was really tight after 9-11? It may be an inconvenience for many, but that's what it will take. They need to learn that they can't get away with stuff like 9-11.

I'll get reamed for saying this, but I don't care what they do among themselves, just as long as they don't F_ _ _ with us.

Originally posted by Lawrence


It may do your argument some good to explain how many "A LOT" actually is. A thousand is a lot to one person, a dozen is a lot to another. But you've said you "don't like any Arabs", and so are pushing your opinion of those Arabs you have met onto all other Arabs. By definition, that is racism, as you are judging individuals by your impression of the group.

--- I said I don't like any arabs which means out of the ones I know I don't like any. After that i talked about the generalizations that hints that there are some that I could like (though I have not met any thus far).

Are you implying that you have a bone to pick with all Arabs because you've found that the ones you have met are inconsiderate? I think you'll find that measured responses are always more appropriate.

---Nope, I have a bone to pick with Iraq, the Palestine, and such nations who support terrorism ect. ---

I'm glad you realise this, but I think you'll find there are more exceptions to your judgement then followers, as it seems to be based off so little.

---I base it on facts we already cleared that up if you read previous posts. If facts are too little then what is big I might ask? ---

This point just doesn't make any sense at all. "In general" implies that they are not all the same. Rather, it means that as a group, they collectively display particular characteristics, but there are exceptions. In most cases, that would be based on the majority of members of the group displaying a particular characteristic. To say "in general all of them are the same" is equivalent to saying "they are all the same". You're throwing in the word "general" thinking that it makes everything fine, but in this context it certainly does not.

--- generally could = say 90% but never 100%. Does 90% = 100%? NO ---

The problem is, that if you were to pick an individual member of the group, you are not in a position to judge that person individually. You are trying to apply your impression of the group to which they belong to judge them as an individual. So you're labelling an individual with the characteristics of others. If the group happens to be racially based, then again, that is racism. If you want to judge an individual, judge them on their own characteristics. If you want to judge a group, then you need to realise you are judging the individuals in that group also.

--- The problem is, that if you were to pick an individual member of the group, you are not in a position to judge that person individually? SURE YOU ARE! The rest of what you said made no sense. I never judged a whole group just parts of a group. And we can all say at the least parts of the arab culture are bad. ---

If that is not what you're trying to do, you would do well to clarify your point by explaining it another way, rather than repeating the same vague words over and over and trying to ram them down people's throats. It's obvious from others' responses in this thread that what you've said is ambiguous and open to misunderstanding.

--- I'm not raming anything down anyones throat. I'm using no foul language either. The great thing about the internet is it's based on information. Information that we have the right to or not to read/listen/ect. Just because majority says something doesn't make them right. Truth and numbers do not always go hand in hand. ---

Your petty insults are also very pathetic. It takes two to communicate. If people can't understand you, half the fault lies at your end. Don't assume they heard you wrong, assume you told them wrong.

--- A server goes down (A), another server wants to talk to (A) but it can't. It is of no fault to server (B) if it can not talk to server (A). You did make somewhat a good point however. ---

inogenius you're right

I meaned a name that Bush called to the operation, not the name in if.

BTW, take a look to this links and tell me who say that the enemy its the evil.
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/04/17/bush.anti-terrorism/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/03/28/bush.terrorists/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/01/30/bush.sou.1408/index.html

http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/10/20/gen.bush.speech/index.html

Originally posted by Chicken

You are wrong. How you can't see it is beyond me, and most of the people on the forum.


What you meant was...

"In my experiences with Arab individuals (insert number here), I have found several of these people to be inconsiderate."

When you apply your very limited experiences to the entire Arab population ("in general") this is where you go from descibing your experiences to sterotyping the entire race (with some "exceptions").

--- A lot is not very limited... only limited---

If you can't somehow understand this still, then try to see if you wouldn't be offened by:

Personally I don't like any person named Steve (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

--- Steve is based on a name not ones class, culture, ect... It holds no consistant factual information behinde it. I can say I don't like spiders and that can be a fact because if you look at everything a spider has to be and don't like it, then it can be true that you don't like them and that they are all the same. Otherwise it wouldn't be a spider it would be something else.---

Personally I don't like any Europeans (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

--- It can be possible if most Europeans are (but i didnt say that anyways).---

Personally I don't like any Anericans (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

---same---

Personally I don't like any <insert Radix's last name> (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

---same---


Personally I don't like any <insert Radix's religion> (I know A LOT of them). In "general" they are inconsiderate and think we owe them something. Sure "there are exceptions" but "in general" - all of them are the same.

---same---

It just sounds better and better the more you read it, eh? Be sure to preface these statements with some sort of religious or ethnic slur just so people know you're not racist like, "beenie wearin' Jew" or "greasy Italian" or "turban head".

---Turban head was talking about a very direct person (everyone knew that). If Chris Rock makes a joke about white people it usually holds some truth and thats why people think its funny. People know hes only talking about those people who really are that way and thus are not offended. Doesn't, by no means, make him racist (though he may be...). ---

Originally posted by punaboy
:uzi:BLAST'EM

I spent 8 years in the Air Force '84 - '92. We've tried to negotiate with them, it's not working.

:flamethr:BLAST'EM

I beleive Military force is the only solution.

I think he says it all... That about sums it up. Think of racism like different kinds of dogs. There are certain traits about dogs that will just hold consistant (though there will be exceptions). If I profer one kind of dog over another that doesn't make me racist. Well maybe racist isn't the right word considering they are dogs but you got the idea...

:flamethr: Iraq ..''--'::'' <(''<)

Radix -

Surely you don't think you can compare people to servers, spiders and dogs?

You simply cannot judge an individual person by the traits of a group to which they belong. There are always exceptions as you keep saying, yet you seem to think you can pick any individual Arab and know with certainty that they are inconsiderate, rude, and hate America. You are contradicting yourself, and you are a racist.

Here's a morbid hypothetical for you. I give you a group of 100 people. 90 of them Americans, 10 of them Arabic. It is known that 5 of them have committed crimes of terrorism against America in the past, but it is not known which.

From what you're telling us, you would shoot all 10 Arabs, wouldn't you?



(Edited after punaboy's post, as I meant to address Radix only)

Lawrence,

I can't speak for anyone else on this post, but what I'm talking about is strickly against military and terrorist.
From what you're telling us, you would shoot all 10 Arabs, wouldn't you?
No, as we do have some American idiots too. With all the attacks lately, I would however look at the Arabs first.
People say not all Arabs are like that (I agree), but I live in Las Vegas and several of the hijackers met here before 9-11. Everyone who had contact with them said that they we normal, easy going guys. We all know what happened. So of course I feel threatened and yes I will put up a barrier.

Originally posted by punaboy
Lawrence,

I can't speak for anyone else on this post, but what I'm talking about is strickly against military and terrorist.

No, as we do have some American idiots too. With all the attacks lately, I would however look at the Arabs first.
People say not all Arabs are like that (I agree), but I live in Las Vegas and several of the hijackers met here before 9-11. Everyone who had contact with them said that they we normal, easy going guys. We all know what happened. So of course I feel threatened and yes I will put up a barrier.

I didn't mean to address that last post to you punaboy, or anyone else - just Radix. I'll edit it to make that clear. You've justified your opinion, as has everyone else, and I can respect that even if I disagree on some points. But Radix doesn't seem to understand was racism actually is, nor why it's wrong.

Oh, sorry Lawrence. I still wanted to answer/reply since I had 2 cents to spare. I didn't think this thread would go on the way it has. I'm glad we have people who care even if our views are different.

Originally posted by Lawrence


Surely you don't think you can compare people to servers, spiders and dogs?

--- All humans are just animals think about it. The Pope even accepted evolution. And the server example I was really just giving an example. ---

You simply cannot judge an individual person by the traits of a group to which they belong. There are always exceptions as you keep saying, yet you seem to think you can pick any individual Arab and know with certainty that they are inconsiderate, rude, and hate America. You are contradicting yourself, and you are a racist.

---I may "seem" to be many things to you, but then again you don't base your comments on any creditable. You say I'm racist yet you don't know anything about me (while on the other hand I know much about arabs). Thats the kind of stuff that causes racism.---


Here's a morbid hypothetical for you. I give you a group of 100 people. 90 of them Americans, 10 of them Arabic. It is known that 5 of them have committed crimes of terrorism against America in the past, but it is not known which.

From what you're telling us, you would shoot all 10 Arabs, wouldn't you?

--- No, I never said they should die. But if I were to investigate I might start with the arabs yes. That is not racism its racial profiling and the police do it too.---

And whoever said the police were right for doing it?

Radix, do yourself, and the rest of us a favor and shutup. You contradict yourself throughout this whole thread. Then you say we know nothing about you? However from this thread we have seen your views on arabs and their lifestyle, that would be knowing something on you wouldn't it? And worst of all, you claim to know something about arabs, even though you probably know 10-15 at the most. That, is not knowing something about them.

Originally posted by inogenius


Did you just completely contradict yourself?

No, I knew someone would say that before I posted. A lot is a measurement while normal is an opinion. To know a lot of arabs would be enough to make a generalization about a group of people. I understand everyone has a different take on a lot, but none the less it would be enough to make a generaliztion. Something becomes fact when you can test it and test it over and over and you will find it to be true (which I have). With a lot I am capable of doing so since lot is based on a "large" extent, amount, or number. I can already guess whats next...

Originally posted by inogenius
And whoever said the police were right for doing it?

Radix, do yourself, and the rest of us a favor and shutup. You contradict yourself throughout this whole thread. Then you say we know nothing about you? However from this thread we have seen your views on arabs and their lifestyle, that would be knowing something on you wouldn't it? And worst of all, you claim to know something about arabs, even though you probably know 10-15 at the most. That, is not knowing something about them.


Again you say stuff that you base on nothing. You don't know if these are my views because you don't know who I am. People often get frustrated when they know they have lost, and I think that is the case here.

So what is a lot? Considering there is probably over 20,000,000 arabs in this world, I'd have to say, to even make a generalization you would have to know atleast 15,000,000 of them.

Again you say stuff that you base on nothing. You don't know if these are my views because you don't know who I am. People often get frustrated when they know they have lost, and I think that is the case here.

So what you pretty said in that quote, is that you could be sitting there on your computer, just argueing with us to piss us off? That's how I understood, if I am mis-understanding something please tell me.

Originally posted by Radix
People often get frustrated when they know they have lost, and I think that is the case here.

Well, we mightn't know much about you, but we're learning more and more on every post! Last time I checked, there wasn't any "win" and "lose" in arguments. Just "respect" and "arrogance".

But I don't think this needs to be drawn out any longer, so I won't say any more for now.

I shall follow your lead Lawrence....

Originally posted by inogenius
[B]So what is a lot? Considering there is probably over 20,000,000 arabs in this world, I'd have to say, to even make a generalization you would have to know atleast 15,000,000 of them.

----I was right I knew youd say all of this too hehe. I know more than I can count so thats why I used a lot.----

So what you pretty said in that quote, is that you could be sitting there on your computer, just argueing with us to piss us off? That's how I understood, if I am mis-understanding something please tell me.

--- Not could be I AM... If you haven't realized (which I know you have) Its gone way off topic. If I can waste just 30 min of your life talking to me than I have won ( while having fun doing so). After a while I just wanted to see how ignorant the average joe is, though everything I have said is true. It may seem like an ahole thing to do, but it just makes you stop and think about your life for a moment. ---

Originally posted by Lawrence


Well, we mightn't know much about you, but we're learning more and more on every post! Last time I checked, there wasn't any "win" and "lose" in arguments. Just "respect" and "arrogance".

But I don't think this needs to be drawn out any longer, so I won't say any more for now.


--- Ahh I think I have won actually and you can win an argument. your learning more about yourself than me. The game is over and I have won. I too will not post on the subject anymore because its going to bore me if I do and I dont want that!----

:stickout ;)

*moderator blows whistle*

Ignorant Trolling - 5 yard penalty - First down - Thread locked