Hello all,
I previously had webhosting with the Webhost OxyUK.com (Oxyhost.co.uk) and bought the domain GB-Network.com domain from them.
I was changing hosts at the end of the month and so, cancelled my PayPal sub.
My hosting account was immediatly shut down, with around 12 days left to go. I asked the owner (Liam) why this happend and he said its a script and theres nothing he can do.

I asked for FTP access to get the files back but he said its not that easy (He uses WHM), as its in the trash bin and would bring the whole server down and take hours to retrieve.
I knew this wasnt the case but I left it at that. I continued to use my MSN Sales login of sales@gb-network.com.

This afternoon I attempted to login to find the password was wrong and when I requested the new one it didnt goto my alternate address.
I contacted a few customers, one of who wasn't going to buy the agreed dedicated server from me due to the fact I was "ripping him off".
I know for a fact the deal I gave him wasnt a rip off. I asked for more information about where he got this and he said from sales@gb-network.com the "GB-Network lads". After talking some more to him he said the guy was from Oxyhost.co.uk

Personally, I think stealing an ex-customers MSN log on and robbing him of £70 (the price the customer was going to pay) is VERY unprofessional.
I don't know what rights I have legally about this and what I can do.

I thought I'd make everyone aware of this "Wild" webhost and advise current customers to close their account (copying files across first) and removing any link with OxyUK

Any advise for me would be great, thanks.

Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience, that sounds extremely unprofessional.

I hope you find a more reliable host who can accommodate your needs better and keep your personal data confidential. You should take him to court for accessing your personal files and taking over your MSN account. That is highly unprofessional and goes against any business ethics.

Best of luck :)

Thanks WN.

Just got a reply from OxyUK

"Hey Sean,

Yes, I did take your MSN account...

Why? - Your attitude.
I'll give it you back by all means, just ask.

Liam "

I will be taking this further as I dont see why me leaving his hosting, a month ago, should promote this behaviour.

I don't understand - exactly how did he get into your MSN account? Did you give him your account info?

This is ridiculous that he should do such a thing, under any circumstance! Your MSN is YOUR account. If I were you, I would contact MSN MEssenger people and tell them what he did. Somehow I do not think they would be too pleased with his actions.

Well, before I knew who it was I contacted Net Passport with my details and requested a password reset, and emailed everyone I knew telling them to block the account.

I bought the .com domain through him [Since me leaving I've bought the .co.uk version of the domain]. I never had control over the Nameservers without going through him first. As soon as I left he didnt let me have any form of access, through him or not.
He simply made a web account and make an email under the sales@gb-network.com name. Requested the password to be reset to that email and away he went.
I have exchanged many emails with him since and he says he's teahcing me a lesson for telling people about my bad hosting experience.
I'm going to citizens advice on ways to take this further, as I have lost £70 (cost of the customer I lost) and the hosting, along with the rest of the years domain he owes me.

He has a larger company than me. So he has a lawyer, but we'll see how it goes and I'll keep you updated. More questions will be answered and more advice would be great, thanks guys.

Hello there,

My name is Liam from OxyUK Technologies,

Let me explain exactly what happened...
- The customer stopped their paypal subscription, which as stated in our members agreement, we close the account upon closing this subscription, we use an API on most servers interlinked with paypal, so its all done automatically.
- As I personally spoke to the customer alot, I presumed if he was going to leave he would of just said, but he didn't... and closed his subscripiton, and then had a massive go because we didn't save his files for him (again not our responsibility.)
- He has been a poor customer, attempting to damage our good reputation... with over 2 million customers worldwide, we have a the occassional problem, but none to this level.
- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it.
- In connection with this, we removed the MSN account which was being used with it, and the domain now forwards to our website.

- I advise you all watch out for this customer, he is a complete time waster, and a poor customer. His email address is - sales@gb-network.co.uk (he is a 100% reseller, not owning any servers personally, and its a one-man band so from a companies view on this with experience don't even bother with him.)

I hope you all understand, and use your heads wisely - he is now looking for all means to damage our image, and has already tried several methods.

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

If your smart, you will get a hold of MSN and fill them in with what he did. Be sure to include all of his details including his MSN Nickname - so they can track him down. He stole your MSN account. MSN will I would imagine, be totally on your side with this.

Not to get in an argument with Liam on the forums but I have been mature about this whole situation.

"we removed the MSN account which was being used with it"

I'm not sure how to put this but... he illegally accessed my account (the physical domain is not required to have a MSN Passport once it's made) and then told all my customers that I rip them off?

Sorry Liam, but I find this part seriously wrong.

"- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it."

I feel that this is "identity theft" in a way. The domain is related to someone or a business and can be very important, no matter what it says in the TOS, you shouldnt have full rights of the domain even after the your customers leave.

May I know how much you charge for purchasing the domains separately ? Hope it is reasonable and "affordable".

Your free for your own opinion on this policy, but as most of our customers stay with us and are happy to only pay a 'one-time' charge for their name, then we use it.

For customers - £4.99 for any domain (one-time charge, future renewal costs are covered if staying a valid, paying customer.)

For non-customers - at the moment we use a lycos partnershop reseller link... which doesn't get used much to be honest, most domains are sold to customers... and £4.99 (which is about $7/8 is good for a one-time charge... in regards to this customer he may have had a bad experience, but our many other customers stick with a host they can trust, and have had good service/support from.

Thanks,
Liam

They did originally put a bidding price of £300 or $300, on one of those domain bidding websites.

I don't see any term in your members agreement that you place the customers domain for sale?

http://www.sedo.com/search/details.php4?language=us&domain=gb-network.com&partnerid=17505

Originally posted by OxyUK
- He has been a poor customer, attempting to damage our good reputation... with over 2 million customers worldwide, we have a the occassional problem, but none to this level.


How was this person attempting to damage your reputation?


Originally posted by OxyUK
[and closed his subscripiton, and then had a massive go because we didn't save his files for him (again not our responsibility.)


Actually, since he had paid for the month it was your responsibility. No responsible host would delete files before the end of a contract.

Originally posted by OxyUK
- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it.


Unless I'm missing something this sounds like outright fraud. You have got to be kidding me.

Originally posted by OxyUK
- I advise you all watch out for this customer, he is a complete time waster, and a poor customer. His email address is - sales@gb-network.co.uk (he is a 100% reseller, not owning any servers personally, and its a one-man band so from a companies view on this with experience don't even bother with him.)

I hope you all understand, and use your heads wisely - he is now looking for all means to damage our image, and has already tried several methods.



What a hypocrite. You claim he is trying to damage your reputation and then you post his email address and announce that he is nothing but a reseller?

Let me tell you something. There is nothing this person could do to damage your reputation any more than you have done yourself with this single post.

Buyer beware indeed.

Wow.... :eek:

Originally posted by OxyUK
Your free for your own opinion on this policy, but as most of our customers stay with us and are happy to only pay a 'one-time' charge for their name, then we use it.

For customers - £4.99 for any domain (one-time charge, future renewal costs are covered if staying a valid, paying customer.)

For non-customers - at the moment we use a lycos partnershop reseller link... which doesn't get used much to be honest, most domains are sold to customers... and £4.99 (which is about $7/8 is good for a one-time charge... in regards to this customer he may have had a bad experience, but our many other customers stick with a host they can trust, and have had good service/support from.

Thanks,
Liam

If you read carefully, i didnt comment about the one time charge.
what i saying is that you shouldnt take control of your customer's domains after they leave because it is like identity theft, no matter what tos you have.

- He has been a poor customer, attempting to damage our good reputation... with over 2 million customers worldwide, we have a the occassional problem, but none to this level.
I dont know many companies with 2 million customers, and i certainly dont know companies with 2 million customers who decide to take over there MSN accounts and put there domains for sale.
You expect us to believe that? And like Blue said how is he damaging your reputation :confused:
Regards,

Originally posted by OxyUK
- He has been a poor customer, attempting to damage our good reputation... with over 2 million customers worldwide, we have a the occassional problem, but none to this level.

Pick a number a couple million smaller, and somebody might believe you.

Originally posted by Lev
Pick a number a couple million smaller, and somebody might believe you.
Took the words out of my mouth :emlaugh:

Originally posted by Duport
I don't see any term in your members agreement that you place the customers domain for sale?

http://www.sedo.com/search/details.php4?language=us&domain=gb-network.com&partnerid=17505

Wow, 150 £ !

Hello again,

You may want to read - http://access.globalknowledge.com/Article.asp?ID=6409

and... http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15499261&method=full&siteid=50020&headline=schoolboy-runs-internet-firm-alongside-exams-name_page.html

Yes, I may only be nearly 17... however does it really matter if I have trained and expeirenced people working for me? - At the end of the day, every webhost has the odd customer who causes trouble - as this is how I see it... it's a fact of life, you can't please everyone.

Many hosts bow down to customers who are not happy... we usually do, but customers normally approach issues in a mature light. I'm afraid gb-network.com is owned by us, and we will use it... maybe this customer had a problem with our domain policy however our many other customers don't, I will however mention this issue at the next meeting... we may add extra options such as 'own, or lease' etc... as technically all we offer for customers is leasing of domains (or for £25.00 they can control it, with another host).

I will not speak again here, as I accept it as just a fact of life... that I personally and OxyUK Technologies can not please everyone, however 99.9% isn't bad.

Thanks for all your comments,
Kind Regards,
Liam

Originally posted by OxyUK
I'm afraid gb-network.com is owned by us, and we will use it... maybe this customer had a problem with our domain policy however our many other customers don't

You should be afraid, fraud can be taken to court and your terms of service does not overwrite the law. I can't imagine anybody being happy with your domain name policy.

Now his company, OxyUK, has expanded with 12 directors, more than 1,500 subscribers and 1.5m worldwide clients who access a free website, paid for by advertising.




Is this the 2 million "clients" you are referring to?

Hello,

Im new here but this is how i see it.

1) why would a company as large as yourseld with "2million customer" worry about one guy who just wants to run himself a small company? Surely if your that large then you have better things to do than to cause him missery and delete his hard worked site for the sake of a few days and also gain access to this persons msn! Yes its a fact of life people will cancel with you! your learn this one day but when somone leaves you for what ever reason, you let them go nicely and you will get good word of mouth generated!you'll also come to realise that all this is damaging your "rep". being only 17 doesnt make you any less of a "buisnessman" but you need to learn from the bigboys or even your dad otherwise your buisness aint going anywhere!

2) as for the "2 million" customers! I dont believe that for a second! being in buisness myself i know that no self respecting large company, especcially on the internet will be shut for a relaunch for as long as you have! This simply doesnt happen!

3) why dont you just learn from all the people above who have disagreed with you and just do the reasonable thing and give gb-network.co.uk back his domain/site etc and stop being such a child over this very small issue.

Well thats my first post and my 2 pennys worth :)

Chris

Originally posted by CJT2005
Hello,

Im new here but this is how i see it.

1) why would a company as large as yourseld with "2million customer" worry about one guy who just wants to run himself a small company? Surely if your that large then you have better things to do than to cause him missery and delete his hard worked site for the sake of a few days and also gain access to this persons msn! Yes its a fact of life people will cancel with you! your learn this one day but when somone leaves you for what ever reason, you let them go nicely and you will get good word of mouth generated!you'll also come to realise that all this is damaging your "rep". being only 17 doesnt make you any less of a "buisnessman" but you need to learn from the bigboys or even your dad otherwise your buisness aint going anywhere!

2) as for the "2 million" customers! I dont believe that for a second! being in buisness myself i know that no self respecting large company, especcially on the internet will be shut for a relaunch for as long as you have! This simply doesnt happen!

3) why dont you just learn from all the people above who have disagreed with you and just do the reasonable thing and give gb-network.co.uk back his domain/site etc and stop being such a child over this very small issue.

Well thats my first post and my 2 pennys worth :)

Chris
And a good first post it is!

2 million customers, Is outrageous. Surely someone around these parts would have heard of these guys if they had so many customers :emlaugh:

Regards,

Originally posted by OxyUK


Many hosts bow down to customers who are not happy... we usually do, but customers normally approach issues in a mature light. I'm afraid gb-network.com is owned by us, and we will use it... maybe this customer had a problem with our domain policy however our many other customers don't, I will however mention this issue at the next meeting... we may add extra options such as 'own, or lease' etc... as technically all we offer for customers is leasing of domains (or for £25.00 they can control it, with another host).



Just think of this, someone has gone thru all the hardwork to make gb-network.com popular, with quite a number of visitors and all you do is take over. The effort is theirs, not yours. And you are selling it for 150 £. And gb-network's identity is not yours, Liam. Not only that, you had used his identity (sales@gb-network.com).

Regardless of your domain policy, this can easily can considered identity theft and fraud.

Guess I'm kinda slow tonight because I can't get my head around any of this. But one thing does stick out:


Originally posted by OxyUK
- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it.


Is ICANN down with this?

Magic 8 ball says "all signs indicate no". I'm gonna go poke around ICANN a little and see what's up with that.

From what I understand of ICANN Policy he can hold the domain for any renewals done on it at a "reasonable" fee if the domain was used and is still used for business purposes. I.E. if the domain was registered and never used the grounds wouldn't be there.

I believe there are grounds to:
1. File a dispute with ICANN

2. File a legal claim (criminal) for attempted Identity Theft.

Just my take. As for 2 million customers, I truly doubt it as that would put you on par with companies like EV1 in size. As for the feasability of taking an MSN account which is owned by the "OWNER" not the email address not the domain that is Identity Theft and in US courts would hold up (don't know about UK courts).

Originally posted by OxyUK
Yes, I may only be nearly 17... however does it really matter if I have trained and expeirenced people working for me? - At the end of the day, every webhost has the odd customer who causes trouble - as this is how I see it... it's a fact of life, you can't please everyone.

You can't please everyone, is your excuse for identity theft? I don't care how angry you are with a customer, you never ever ever claim to be them while using their account info. That is fraud, outright, regardless of the age of the people involved. Speaking of age, no it doesn't matter, unless you go around like a loose cannon making up your own rules to play by, which bear no resemblance to the rules others have to abide by. Your business can't just do as it (and you) pleases, there are laws against that thankfully.

You have very little grasp of the real world. You can fool your local paper, especially if your Mom vouches for you, but the real measure of a business is how ethically it behaves and how professionally it treats its customers. Your Mom, if she knew what you really were up to, wouldn't be as proud as she comes across in that article, I don't think. No business owner likes all their customers, but very very few go on vendettas against them.

Update for you all,
OxyUK continued to exchange emails with me, mainly talking about the Net MSN Passport. He feels as the whois say his company, he owns the sales@gb-network.com MSN passport.
That email is simply a username, OxyUK cannot own it.

I'm waiting for a reply with MSN Passport support and then I will explain the situation to them about how OxyUK feels he owns that account. I will sit be going to Citizen's Advice about this on Monday to see what they think I should do.

Thanks for your help guys.

Originally posted by BigBison
You can't please everyone, is your excuse for identity theft? I don't care how angry you are with a customer, you never ever ever claim to be them while using their account info. That is fraud, outright, regardless of the age of the people involved. Speaking of age, no it doesn't matter, unless you go around like a loose cannon making up your own rules to play by, which bear no resemblance to the rules others have to abide by. Your business can't just do as it (and you) pleases, there are laws against that thankfully.

You have very little grasp of the real world. You can fool your local paper, especially if your Mom vouches for you, but the real measure of a business is how ethically it behaves and how professionally it treats its customers. Your Mom, if she knew what you really were up to, wouldn't be as proud as she comes across in that article, I don't think. No business owner likes all their customers, but very very few go on vendettas against them.

Well said! and thats where everyones trying to tell him hes going wrong! buisness is about ethics! yes you cud be a multi millionaire buisness tycoon but if you dont play by the rules now whilst your learning your going to slip up! (maybe you allready have by commiting identity fraud!) If you dont start playing by the rules now you will pay for it in the end.

An IM account stores your friends list on there servers. Due to this the contacts are people you know and people you deal with. This makes an IM become an "Identity" of you.

By siezing control of this "Identity" and speaking to anyone on this list he is commiting Identity Theft.

If he can not see that then he truly needs to grasp a better understanding of the law and should probably shut down before he does. Otherwise he is on a short road to prison.

Also if you performed business under the original domain and you have not been with OnyxUK for a year and you paid the initial registration fee for 1 year and have proof then under ICANN you can file a dispute and he legally has no claim to the domain.

I dealt with him directly via Email and Paypal, so I should have all the records.
I dont suppose you can point me to which section of ICANN I should talk to please?

Thanks.

In less than two years, Liam Young will be 18 at which time he can legally marry Donna Mercer from Angelnetworkz. It'd be a perfect match. :stickout:

OxyUK,


Can i ask why you charge so much for a customer to buy their "Purchased" domain back from you when they close their account?

Even then, id much rather keep my reputation/company image and at least "do the right thing" and give the poor chap his domain back....

Also is: I advise you all watch out for this customer, he is a complete time waster, and a poor customer. His email address is - (he is a 100% reseller, not owning any servers personally, and its a one-man band so from a companies view on this with experience don't even bother with him.

Anyway to treat an (albeit ex-) customer?

Also kudos on the news page, nice to see young ones doing something really creative with their time and actually getting somewhere :gthumb:

with over 2 million customers worldwide

Im sorry, but im not even sure that companies like ev1, theplanet, rackspace and other companies io have actually heard of have that many customers.

Im sorry, but im not even sure that companies like ev1, theplanet, rackspace and other companies io have actually heard of have that many customers.1and1 has over 4 million customers and the company is widely known. It would be impossible not to be so. It is obvious that he was just trying to impress us and probably to intimidate the OP by using these huge figures.

Originally posted by RambOrc
In less than two years, Liam Young will be 18 at which time he can legally marry Donna Mercer from Angelnetworkz. It'd be a perfect match. :stickout:

OMFG! :emlaugh: :emlaugh:

Unless she's off on a secret mission with SAS.

Originally posted by l.stevens
From what I understand of ICANN Policy he can hold the domain for any renewals done on it at a "reasonable" fee if the domain was used and is still used for business purposes. I.E. if the domain was registered and never used the grounds wouldn't be there.

I believe there are grounds to:
1. File a dispute with ICANN

2. File a legal claim (criminal) for attempted Identity Theft.


You're probably right. But I was feeling ornery yesterday so I emailed ICANN (no names, just a request for policy clarification). I assume they won't look at the message until business hours next week, but I'll post back as soon as I get a reply.

i was looking through OxyUK's AUP and find this bit quite funny
Security You are responsible for any misuse of your account, even if the inappropriate activity was committed by a client, friend, family member, guest or employee. Therefore, you must take steps to ensure that others do not gain unauthorized access to your account. In addition, you may not use your account to breach security of another account or attempt to gain unauthorized access to another network or server.

i also found this quite strange in the TOS

19.OxyDesign customers who have an active website with us, do not hold any rights over the website design, and may not transfer it to another web host, if any hosting payment has not been made within 7 days after due date, the website will become suspended and your account and design can be terminated if a full payment hasn’t been made within 14 days.

then theres this section also
20.Respect must be given to all of our employees, charges can be applied if any user wastes our employees time.
what do you call this on an invoice ??

this is quite the strange company that doesnt want to give their clients any freedom to move to a diffrent host and if they do requires them to pay fees and wont let them take the design they paid to have made for them.

i wont be using oxyuk for anything even if they own the last servers on the planet

that is complete BS

Previous chat with OxyUK. They said their T&C, etc are all "registered". How can they register something that goes against our rates as coonsumers?

(i) circumstances indicating that you have registered or you have acquired the domain name primarily for the purpose of selling, renting, or otherwise transferring the domain name registration to the complainant who is the owner of the trademark or service mark or to a competitor of that complainant, for valuable consideration in excess of your documented out-of-pocket costs directly related to the domain name; or

(ii) you have registered the domain name in order to prevent the owner of the trademark or service mark from reflecting the mark in a corresponding domain name, provided that you have engaged in a pattern of such conduct; or

(iii) you have registered the domain name primarily for the purpose of disrupting the business of a competitor; or

(iv) by using the domain name, you have intentionally attempted to attract, for commercial gain, Internet users to your web site or other on-line location, by creating a likelihood of confusion with the complainant's mark as to the source, sponsorship, affiliation, or endorsement of your web site or location or of a product or service on your web site or location.


Well lets see.

I believe this would match

i) because the control of the domain was taken in order to "sell" the domain. Control of the domain previously could be shown to belong to the customer since his site was there. And if he has documentation showing he paid for the domain, no matter the whois, it means he owns the domain unless OnyxUK can prove different.

ii) He siezed control of the domain in order to prevent the person who paid for the domain and was using the domain from contuing to use it.

iii) Well, that one is pretty obvious.

iiii) He redirected it to his site AND spoke to people on MSN portraying himself as that company.

Originally posted by OxyUK
Hello again,

You may want to read - http://access.globalknowledge.com/Article.asp?ID=6409

and... http://iccheshireonline.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews/tm_objectid=15499261&method=full&siteid=50020&headline=schoolboy-runs-internet-firm-alongside-exams-name_page.html

Yes, I may only be nearly 17... however does it really matter if I have trained and expeirenced people working for me? -

Actually I think it does. I don't think you are legally allowed to own a business or sign contracts unless you are the age of majority. Which I think is the same in the UK as it is here. Until you are 18 you cannot legally sign any contracts, including any employment contracts you may have with your employees.

Extremely unprofessional indeed. Hope you received your files.

Why doesn't something like this happen to me, I think lawyers would kill for case like this - you couldn't lose even if you never read anything about law! ;)

Sue him and take over HIS company! :stickout:

This OXY company is starting to sound like a big setup that some sad kid has setup in his bedroom and tried to rip a few people off! HEHE

Originally posted by Ivan Bajlo
Why doesn't something like this happen to me, I think lawyers would kill for case like this - you couldn't lose even if you never read anything about law! ;)

A lawyer? What profits are there for the lawyer? He would not get much out of this, even if you won the case. I highly doubt a lawyer would be itching to take this case.

Originally posted by Lev
A lawyer? What profits are there for the lawyer? He would not get much out of this, even if you won the case. I highly doubt a lawyer would be itching to take this case.

I admit I don't much about law in UK and it's not US, but even in backwater like Croatia you can get monetary compensation if you can prove you lost business and your reputation suffered because of fraud and identity theft...

Of course that all depends on how much money company run by minor actually has but there is also mum and dads pocket. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Ivan Bajlo
Of course that all depends on how much money company run by minor actually has but there is also mum and dads pocket. :rolleyes:


If you enter into an agreement with a minor you an forget about any compensation. They are not held responsible under the law.

That depends on the country blue27. In the US the parents are held liable, unless the judge deems the minor was responsible enough and close enough to 18 then they are held liable.

Originally posted by OxyUK
[B]Hello there,

- He has been a poor customer, attempting to damage our good reputation... with over 2 million customers worldwide, we have a the occassional problem, but none to this level.



You've over two million customers, but you don't have a contact address on your site. I am sure this is an oversight, and you are aware that not doing so breaks UK distance selling regulations. A company with 2 million customers worldwide would of course know this.



- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it.



Through http://www.dynadot.com I presume? Is this stated clearly in your terms and conditions? Even so, IMO it's that's an unethical approach to keep a customer's domain, even after they've left.



- I advise you all watch out for this customer, he is a complete time waster, and a poor customer. His email address is - sales@gb-network.co.uk (he is a 100% reseller, not owning any servers personally, and its a one-man band so from a companies view on this with experience don't even bother with him.)



WRONG! I have had very pleasant dealings with Sean, and I can vouch that he is NOT a ' 100% reseller' as you put it.



I hope you all understand, and use your heads wisely - he is now looking for all means to damage our image, and has already tried several methods.



It seems you are more than capable of doing this yourself.

Sean, you've my number, my email and msn. Speaking from a personal point of view, I would think it is your interests to fight to get your domain back.

Again, from a personal point of view; a consumer point of view, I find the said attitude discusting, and a real mark of why customers are so untrusting of the hosting industry. These kind of incidents have to stop.

Originally posted by Lev
You should be afraid, fraud can be taken to court and your terms of service does not overwrite the law. I can't imagine anybody being happy with your domain name policy.

First of all, there is no fraud involved...I laugh at people who say this..

OxyUK's domain policy is not unusual, I've seen other hosts with the "domain is free as long as you staY" policies. As long as it's clearly stated in the signup policy, then there is no fraud. Though keeping it and not letting it fall back into the pool and using it to damage the previous companies rep is not ethical or legal.

But point goes back to OP. IF this domain was so important to you,why did you not simply pay the fee to retain it? Yes, principle is one thing, but that should not override common busness sense.

And LEGALLY, since OxyUK pays the yearly renewal, it belongs to them anyway, does it not? Personally, I would never get involved with a hosting deal like this because of these types of issues. Too many grey areas and abuses.

Now, that being said, I think the MSN incident was childish and immature,and THAT may have been illegal to do. Even it it wasn't, was very unethical.

OxyUK is definitely not running on all cyliders when it comes to hosting ethics, that much is given.

Originally posted by ArtieFishill
First of all, there is no fraud involved...I laugh at people who say this..

I did not say fraud without a reason. I actually went through the order process, up until I could without payment, and I did not notice where it says anything about their "policy." I took a look at their AUP (never found the TOS) on the main site as well, nothing there. It could have been on the last page, but I'd really like to look at it..., but I did not see this policy stated anywhere I was able to access, therefore I called it fraud.

On another note, they haven't paid for a renewal yet, so it's not legally theirs, or at least you can't use your logic to prove that it is theirs.

Well the other catch is they make you pay for the first year. Paying for the first year means that the purchaser owns the domain until a renewal is paid as they "purchased" the domain.

You must have missed that part Artie.

I don't see anywhere it says yoiu're paying for the domain other then in the OP's post. Plans I see say that you're buying hosting and getting a free domain. While he definitely needs verbage clarifying the conditions, etc, up front, it's far from fraud. It's not uncommon to offer free domains that are only your while you maintain a valid hosting account and can be turned over for a fee if you leave.

I'm not seeing anywhere that it says you pay for the domain.

I think the main point here is what Oxy DID with the domain once the OP left. The MSN one, regardless of his incorrect thinking, is still IMHO an illegal act of identify theft.

I tend to renew and keep domains abandoned by my clients (they fail to renew). But I don't use them to access anthing they were using them and simply point them to my site...I don't see anything wrong with that.

But to use one of them to access somene's MSN acct orany kind of account, is unthinkable to me.

Originally posted by BigBison

You have very little grasp of the real world. You can fool your local paper, especially if your Mom vouches for you, but the real measure of a business is how ethically it behaves and how professionally it treats its customers. Your Mom, if she knew what you really were up to, wouldn't be as proud as she comes across in that article, I don't think. No business owner likes all their customers, but very very few go on vendettas against them.

I think Bison hit the nail right on the head.

For customers - £4.99 for any domain (one-time charge, future renewal costs are covered if staying a valid, paying customer.)

From OxyUK's second post in this thread. As he stated they pay a fee to obtain the domain.

liam, with 2 million clients world-wide, one client wouldn't wreck it for the rest of your business.

Regardless of the domain ownership issue, a .NET passport (required to sign into MSN Messenger) is associated with a Windows account, rather than with a domain name. If you take over a domain name from someone else, that does not give you the rights to any existing .NET passports.

"domain is free as long as you staY" policies.

IF this domain was so important to you,why did you not simply pay the fee to retain it?

I'm sorry if I made this unclear but I paid £5 for the domain for 1 year.
They wanted £150 for me to buy the domain back that I had already paid for.

The domain registration scam is a shady business practice, but not necessarily illegal. The rest of the stuff this kid has pulled potentially is. I'm a UK law student, and I'd be happy to give you a few pointers on this matter- it's likely to be too complex for the CAB, but you should try a university law clinic and see if they'll help you out. Kent, Bristol and Northumberland and Strathclyde (my own) universities have good ones. Send me a PM ( I can't send them yet, since there's a minimum posts limit).

Originally posted by l.stevens
From OxyUK's second post in this thread. As he stated they pay a fee to obtain the domain.

Regardless, it's NOT mentioned anywhere on his site, so I'm wondering how anyone outside the thread would even be aware of it.

Originally posted by ArtieFishill
Regardless, it's NOT mentioned anywhere on his site, so I'm wondering how anyone outside the thread would even be aware of it.

Isn't that problematic in and of itself?

Originally posted by sea otter
OMFG! :emlaugh: :emlaugh:

Unless she's off on a secret mission with SAS.

In her helicopter with her famous look alike of a sister.

Originally posted by blue27
If you enter into an agreement with a minor you an forget about any compensation. They are not held responsible under the law.

But their legal guardian can be..

Originally posted by ArtieFishill
Regardless, it's NOT mentioned anywhere on his site, so I'm wondering how anyone outside the thread would even be aware of it.

Well instead of choosing a hosting package I went to the register a domain section of there site.. Interesting stuff.



Domain name 2 year(s) £3.98
1st year domain name included -£1.99

Then it charged a £4.99 yearly for hosting.

Gave a total of:
£12.95

Which is:
£3.98 *2 + £4.99

So basically the current system if you register a domain is charging:
£1.99 first year
£3.98 second year
£4.99 first year hosting.........

I couldn't find a free domain option.

Originally posted by Naes
But their legal guardian can be..


Where did you get your information from?

The law states that you cannot legally enter a contract with a minor. Where does it say a parent or guardian will be held responsible?

You can't have it both ways.

If a minor signs a contract with a cell phone company and then doesn't pay, by law the cell phone company cannot go after the parents because it is a null contract. It never existed.

It's no difference if it's the other way around as far as I can see.

Originally posted by blue27
Where did you get your information from?

The law states that you cannot legally enter a contract with a minor. Where does it say a parent or guardian will be held responsible?

You can't have it both ways.

If a minor signs a contract with a cell phone company and then doesn't pay, by law the cell phone company cannot go after the parents because it is a null contract. It never existed.

It's no difference if it's the other way around as far as I can see.

If the minor is misrepresenting who they are and entering into contracts with the guardians knowledge.... the guardian can be held responsible. The key is does the legal guardian know what the minor is doing. If they do, they can be held responsible.

Additionally, many minors can enter into contracts WITH the guardians consent. The delayed entry program used be the Armed Forces in the US is a shining example of that.

Originally posted by Naes
If the minor is misrepresenting who they are and entering into contracts with the guardians knowledge.... the guardian can be held responsible. The key is does the legal guardian know what the minor is doing. If they do, they can be held responsible.

Additionally, many minors can enter into contracts WITH the guardians consent. The delayed entry program used be the Armed Forces in the US is a shining example of that.


In both cases you are presuming that the minor is doing business with the knowledge or consent of the parent. This is often not the case, although it seems to be the case in the instance of this thread.

Originally posted by blue27
In both cases you are presuming that the minor is doing business with the knowledge or consent of the parent. This is often not the case, although it seems to be the case in the instance of this thread.

Exactly. I presume this to be the case from this thread based off the articles posted earlier.

Interesting thread.

Also interesting is this: http://www.hosthideout.com/showthread.php?t=14858#post79450

This OxyUK guy is an idiot. More evidence of this (http://www.hosthideout.com/showthread.php?p=79381#post79381)

I hope you get your files back...

On the age of majority issue, in the UK, 16yos can have legal majority in business in many circumstances. Anyhow, it's not the 16yo you're sueing; it's the legal personality of the hosting company. You can have the courts wind up the company and you can also force the owner into bankruptcy, in the event that the courts rule in your favour and he doesn't pay up.

So this youngster is a reseller himself ??

A whois shows him being hosted by Lycos Europe and his site when choosing a domain package takes you to Lycos Europe to complete the transaction.

From their own AUP:
This document is intended to provide a basic understanding of OxyUK's Acceptable Use Policy. The following are guidelines for the establishment and enforcement of OxyUK's AUP:

• Ensure reliable service to our customers

• Ensure security and privacy of our systems and network, as well as the networks and systems of others

• Comply with existing laws

• Maintain our reputation as a responsible service provider

• Encourage responsible use of the Internet and discourage activities which reduce the usability and value of Internet services

• Preserve the value of Internet resources as a conduit for free expression and exchange of information

• Preserve the privacy and security of individual users

Sounds like they are breaking their own AUP.. Someone needs to tell his parents to take away the computer..

If i have 2 million clients i would not be bothered with the lowly MSN account. I will buy a custom chat software myself.

OxyUK your 2 million clients i think is not true. For a year he has garnered 2 million clients!!!

http://www.whois.sc/oxyuk.com

- We offer really affordable domains for UK users, and therefore again stated in policy domains are paid for 'once' and then you get to keep them for the duration your a web hosting member, if you decide to leave you can purchase them seperatly, however we will hall full rights and ownership of the domain and all links associated with it.

We recently helped a customer get a domain name back from a host that had almost the exact same clause in their TOS. Your TOS are not legally binding, and if I was the original poster, I would contact the registrar you are reselling for and have your reseller account revoked - No accredited registrar would want to be caught with a reseller that was behaving this way, specifically if they were notified of such action (once they are notified, they share in the responsibility and they share in any damages if they do not take reasonable action to ensure their reseller is abiding by the various applicable laws)....

Originally posted by OxyUK

<snip>

I will not speak again here, as I accept it as just a fact of life... that I personally and OxyUK Technologies can not please everyone, however 99.9% isn't bad.

<snip>



Please forward a list of your customers so I can contact them and ask them if they are pleased and ask if they really know what your TOS says and see how pleased they are after that. ;)

Two million customers... WOW, that will be a long list indeed...!

:roll2:

Originally posted by Jeffreyw
If i have 2 million clients i would not be bothered with the lowly MSN account. I will buy a custom chat software myself.

OxyUK your 2 million clients i think is not true. For a year he has garnered 2 million clients!!!

http://www.whois.sc/oxyuk.com

I think "2 million" directly translates to "14" using "new math" as that is what I'm seeing..

Another sites states 11 when looking up their nameserver domain..
http://www.ipwalk.com/webhost/total_domains/webhost_name/oxi1.com

That states they lost 2 domains last month, bringing them down to 11 (stats from ipwalk).. That would be, carry the 6... 18% or so of their business?

Quit trying to fool us, you're dealing with people who know their stuff on this forum.

(Why does a quote from the movie Hackers come to mind?) "What, your mom buy you a 'puter for christmas?

Originally posted by TurbulentMedia
(Why does a quote from the movie Hackers come to mind?) "What, your mom buy you a 'puter for christmas?

Now that is good comedy!
:laugh:

Originally posted by Nadabrahma
Two million customers... WOW, that will be a long list indeed...!

:roll2:

Well If he did produce a list of 2 Million customers, it wouldn't take but a small sample of calls to verify that none of them are his customer. ;)

And it ain't to hard to figure out that if he had that many customers he wouldn't have the time petty theft like hijacking domain names and MSN accounts.

Looks like you might not have gotten the joke....
It is obvious to anyone that this kiddie host can't have anything resembling 2 million customers.... THAT is the joke....
:rolleyes:

Two million customers... WOW, that will be a long list indeed...!

spam list, customers, whats the difference ;)

Yeah, that explains it... the little kiddie host meant his Spam list! Just a minor slip, I guess...!

:roll2:

Originally posted by Nadabrahma
Looks like you might not have gotten the joke....
It is obvious to anyone that this kiddie host can't have anything resembling 2 million customers.... THAT is the joke....
:rolleyes:

I get it and I got it. Just commenting, not trying to school you. ;)

Wow,
This is interesting to find companies , well wannabe companies , that would use such means of lashing back ,especially on a board for all to see.
Liam, give him his domain back for a reasonable price. You probably have the right to it but as a business standpoint its value is greater to him and of little value to you.
You , IMHO, have opened a can of worms and have no right to his msn passport account. Ya don't want to mess with the big boys...
If he gave you the info, that is one thing , but to extract it through other means is a no-no.
Keep your posting to a mimimum and once you set the record straignt with him , be a mature person amd post something stating that your are young,little hot headed and have a tendency to say things that later wished you hadnt said. If you want to run a business, do the professional thing, make it right..
Sean, a word from one that has been in several businesses, protect your name. Whats in a name? Why would anyone rent a name build it to something of value and then look at purchasing it. You get what you pay for, now you need to pay for it..
When I purchased a business I always bought the dirt if it was for sale. I dont like building up a business for some landlord to reap the profitss from once my lease is up. It all depends on location and whether you can pick up and move without in affecting you product and sales. A domain name has its importance, how important is it to you .
Try asking how this can get solved without all the hassel. Solve the mistakes and try to elimate others. Good Luck