I notice this statement at the top of the RackShack TOS:
*All Payments To RackShack (Everyones Internet) Are Non- Refundable*
Let's say a worst case happens and you get a whitebox server with bad hardware. The server will not stay running for more than 24 hours at a time, and after 30 days of trouble tickets the server still isn't stable. Would the above statement hold up so you would be out of luck, or would you be able to recover your fees for the 30 days lost (since the service was not provided) by going through your credit card?

Also, I would like to make sure the server and Ensim are 100% stable as provided by Rackshack before depending on it, but at the same time I would feel uncomfortable with a server online for 1 or 2 weeks if it was not as secure as possible. I've seen a number of times people saying that when they complain about their server or Ensim not functioning, RackShack says because they have altered or even viewed this or that file they cannot help. Is there a list of things that you can or cannot do before voiding any warranty?

Sorry to worry about worst case scenarios, but I have been the victim of contracts which give no rights to the customer one too many times.

Well as they say I am not a lawyer....but.

Just because it is in a contract, doesn't make it legal.

Your rights as a consumer are guarranteed, it depends on what country you are in as to what level of protection you get.

If you see in a contract, "We reserve the right to charge you $1000 if you cancel our services" - doesn't mean it is legal.

If you use a credit card you have double protection, your credit card company could care less what your contract says or what you did or didn't do as a consumer. If you feel a charge is unwarranted or fraudulent, they take the money back straight away.

Don't be afraid of contracts and some of the crazy provisions. Unfortunately, most of the time, companies are too cheap to pay $500 for a good lawyer to write or review a good contract. Most either write their own or borrow contracts that have no basis in their state/country/locality or even business.


p.s. Don't get me started about credit card companies just taking money out of accounts. It is totally unfair and almost criminal in my opinion.

i agree that RS's TOS is a little strict and vague in some parts, but this really is a question that should be asked directly to RS...


....side note: just because Headsurfer (from RS) own's WHT now doesn't mean that you can ask RS specific questions here and doesn't mean that RS can provide tech support here.....

<edit: my side note was directed to everyone interested in RS or dealing with RS>

Originally posted by panopticon
I notice this statement at the top of the RackShack TOS:

Let's say a worst case happens and you get a whitebox server with bad hardware. The server will not stay running for more than 24 hours at a time, and after 30 days of trouble tickets the server still isn't stable. Would the above statement hold up so you would be out of luck, or would you be able to recover your fees for the 30 days lost (since the service was not provided) by going through your credit card?

Also, I would like to make sure the server and Ensim are 100% stable as provided by Rackshack before depending on it, but at the same time I would feel uncomfortable with a server online for 1 or 2 weeks if it was not as secure as possible. I've seen a number of times people saying that when they complain about their server or Ensim not functioning, RackShack says because they have altered or even viewed this or that file they cannot help. Is there a list of things that you can or cannot do before voiding any warranty?

Sorry to worry about worst case scenarios, but I have been the victim of contracts which give no rights to the customer one too many times.

If you're that worried about RackShack, don't choose them. ;) You shouldn't have to worry about your host. Many other places will give you better peace of mind.

I visited RackShack's site long before I first visited WHT and I had absolutely unbiased opinion about them. After I read a little their TOS I momentarily closed browser's window and I have never returned to their site since then.

*All Payments To RackShack (Everyones Internet) Are Non- Refundable*

I purchased a server from rackshack and had 2 months of trouble tickets and tons of hardware problems. I wanted to get away from them but they would not refund 1 penny of my money. I had just purchased a dead server and they didn't care. That's just my 2 cents (which they wouldn't refund me that amount either).

(NOT BASHING)

Do what I did. Contact your credit card company. Pathetic service such as what they offer needs to be looked into. I signed up at one time for a box from them, never worked from day 1. Needless to say [they] were unco-operative, and after dealing with their quote on quote customer service department I knew it was going nowhere except in their favor, as that is what they are taught. The credit card company didn't agree, and forced a refund. I say; If you can't supply what you are stating, get out of the business. Bobby Marsh is nothing but a peddler of cheap bandwidth backed with the belief that you are actually getting a reliable server. Why do you think he bought this forum? Simple; to many RS complaints. Buyer beware.;)

Edited to tone down the facts eh......

Everyone seems to forget that we live in a world were things go wrong occasionly.... mainly because we aren't perfect and we built these items. Do you really expect 100% of them to work perfectly all the time??? If you do then you ain't living in the real world.

I'm happy to see discussions on the quality of service they provide in this public forum... your post is not what I consider useful to anyone (my personal view which I'm entitled to) it was just simply slagging off the company AND the owner personally.

I've had a few problems with my server while I've had it but it's been up every day this year. I consider my server as stable and good quality. Users are too quick to slag off the service they are offering due to the price tag. I know what I'm getting for that price other users obviously don't and it's usually those people who have seen "dedicated server for $99/month" and expect RS tech to hold their hand through everything. I've seen people asking how to setup domains in Plesk/Ensim - if they can't figure that out without asking for help they have got no chance of properly being admin over their server. These people will moan to high heaven because they ain't getting what they are paying for, when they actually are but just don't know how to use it properly and can't be bothered to find out for themselves.

My previous server was with Dialtone... considering their network was in my opinion better than Rackshacks it was always suffering outages mainly with users from Europe (which was a major problem for me). I had the memory and hard disk fail on that machine in the first 3 months, now if I was to take your view on things.... "Dialtone are complete ****e! Their servers are made up of cheap arse components and their network is utter crap!". That statement is in no way fair on the company. Now before you start thinking "but RS's tech service was not helpful" in my case neither were Dialtone's, but that still doesn't change my opinion of them. I've seen plenty of users on this forum who have posted good comments about the company which allows me to believe that I was that unlucky 1 out of god knows how many users who had every problem possible!

Everyone seems to forget that we live in a world were things go wrong occasionly.... mainly because we aren't perfect and we built these items. Do you really expect 100% of them to work perfectly all the time??? If you do then you ain't living in the real world.
We don't forgot that not everything works but when we have this many problems with NO COOPERATION then that just not fair. That's what we're saying. If it doesn't work then fine, they can fix the problems BUT THEY DON'T.

thats all

I'm not saying that they do for EVERYONE! Read the part about Dialtone!!! If I went by your logic Dialtone would fall into the same category you have put Rackshack in, but I would recommend both companies to anyone who asked me.

I'm simply saying that because you had a bad experience... don't say "the company is crap don't host with them". Post the details of your problem and let users reading this forum make up their minds on whether to use Rackshack. When somebody comes to this forum looking for reports on various companies they are looking at using reading a post that basically says "Rackshack are crap" doesn't help them in the slightest.

I can't help feeling that most of this slagging off recently that has been far worse then ever before has to do with the fact that Rackshack now own this site. Fine I can understand people being cautious about using the site anymore because it is no longer 100% independant. But if Rackshack wanted to remove the slagging off they receive here then this thread would not exist.

Originally posted by optix

We don't forgot that not everything works but when we have this many problems with NO COOPERATION then that just not fair. That's what we're saying. If it doesn't work then fine, they can fix the problems BUT THEY DON'T.

thats all

again as a 3rd party, the RS rep on the forums tried to help you in another thread but you didn't want it.....that's your fault

One time I ordered a dual P3 system but I ended up getting a Cobalt RAQ due to a bug in their sign-up system.

I called immediately and was told that I would not be given a refund on the Raq. The lady on the phone sounded strict about it but I persisted and eventually I talked to someone who cleared out the order. I don't remember anymore but I think they actually applied a credit from the RAQ to my other servers. Either way I was satisfied with the results.

I'm moving my businesses onto colocated servers right now. Colo is the right choice for me and Rackshack doesn't offer it.

Jim

Originally posted by reloadnet
Everyone seems to forget that we live in a world were things go wrong occasionly.... mainly because we aren't perfect and we built these items. Do you really expect 100% of them to work perfectly all the time??? If you do then you ain't living in the real world.

No doubt, won't argue with you on that.

I'm happy to see discussions on the quality of service they provide in this public forum... your post is not what I consider useful to anyone (my personal view which I'm entitled to) it was just simply slagging off the company AND the owner personally.

It absolutely is useful. When a company treats people no better then a dog rather than a customer while holding your money based on their naive belief that they have the right to even when they send you defective merchandise, then we have a problem. This is not a slag as you would like to put it. You get treated in life, like you have treated others. The customer comes first, something that seems to have become lost at RS in my opinion, and that opinion is based on the way I was treated by their staff when I expressed my displeasure in their product. If you can't supply the service, then give back the customers money so they can shop elsewhere.

I talked endlessly with them about this issue all on my dime, and there was no cooperation from them what so ever. One well known surfer of this board who is from RS even went as far as to state that they reserve the right to replace a machine if it wasn't working from the first day it was sent, but that they wouldn't be offering refunds for a defective product. This same person also stupidly stated that even if they knowingly sent you a server that was defective, they still reserved the right under their TOS to replace it, and that you had no choice but to wait for it to be replaced. I asked what other business operates this way, as I don't know any. When was the last time you went to get new tires on your car and had to be satisfied driving away with them being flat?

Here below is some of my support tickets on this issue so you can see how great their technical support staff is. Watch the dates and their confusion.

First e-mail: The day they took my money.

----- Original Message -----
From: <support@rackshack.net>
To: <**************>
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 11:37 PM
Subject: RackShack Trouble Ticket - CustomerID: ******* - Date: 3/28/02 9:37:39 PM


> The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
> been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
> ------------------------
> arwenh - called customer, confirmed address, email address, and billing
> info
> ------------------------
>
> You may log into the Members Section and view the Status of the Ticket.
>
> Thank you for Choosing RackShack
> support@rackshack.net
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Second e-mail: Pulling defective machine

----- Original Message -----
From: <support@rackshack.net>
To: <*************>
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 5:15 PM
Subject: RackShack Trouble Ticket - CustomerID: ******* - Date: 3/29/02 3:15:40 PM


> The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
> been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
> ------------------------
> pulling for restore.
> ------------------------
>
> You may log into the Members Section and view the Status of the Ticket.
>
> Thank you for Choosing RackShack
> support@rackshack.net
----------------------------------------------------------

Third e-mail: Preparing to restore.

----- Original Message -----
From: <support@rackshack.net>
To: <*************>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 11:27 AM
Subject: RackShack Trouble Ticket - CustomerID: ******* - Date: 3/30/02 9:27:56 AM


> The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
> been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
> ------------------------
> Preparing to restore server **************
> ------------------------
>
> You may log into the Members Section and view the Status of the Ticket.
>
> Thank you for Choosing RackShack
> support@rackshack.net
-------------------------------------------------------

Fourth e-mail: Trying to find the server now.

----- Original Message -----
From: <support@rackshack.net>
To: <**************>
Sent: Saturday, March 30, 2002 1:50 PM
Subject: RackShack Trouble Ticket - CustomerID: ******** - Date: 3/30/02 11:50:46 AM


> The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
> been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
> ------------------------
> Unable to locate server. Will keep looking.
> ------------------------
>
> You may log into the Members Section and view the Status of the Ticket.
>
> Thank you for Choosing RackShack
> support@rackshack.net
--------------------------------------------------------

Fifth e-mail: They had lost me with this one.

----- Original Message -----
From: <support@rackshack.net>
To: <****************>
Sent: Monday, April 01, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: RackShack Trouble Ticket - CustomerID: ******* - Date: 3/31/02 10:25:02 PM


> The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
> been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
> ------------------------
> Server pulled and used for swaps.
> ------------------------
>
> You may log into the Members Section and view the Status of the Ticket.
>
> Thank you for Choosing RackShack
> support@rackshack.net
-----------------------------------------------------

From the day I ordered: Thursday, March 28, 2002 to the day I asked for a refund Monday April 1, 2002, all I got from RS was that they were pulling my server for a restore, then they were preparing to restore the server, then in the next they can't find the server, and finally I guess they did, as they have now pulled it, and are using it for swaps. Never had one hour, let along one minute of a working system with them, and they reserve the right to keep my money. Please - If you think that business works this way, you've got a lot to learn.

Errmm?? I spoke with someone who was familiar with this and upon review, I see we issued you a refund and restored your server for resell, which were the emails you just posted up here:

4/1/02 - ***** - 4:46:28 PM
****** - Rackshack - Inactive - Acct Closed-see my notes - - Verified address, Verified billing inf, Verified Login/pw - - All ->
.customer wanted a conf. # on the refund that was issued on 3/29 to his card. I gave it to him and also took of him email address from the contact screen so that he would not continue to receive email per the customer request.

So I'm lost as to the point of this post? You were dissatisfied, there was something wrong with the server, we cancelled it, gave you a refund and restored/resold your server.

Originally posted by Patrick-EV1
Errmm?? I spoke with someone who was familiar with this and upon review, I see we issued you a refund and restored your server for resell, which were the emails you just posted up here:

4/1/02 - ***** - 4:46:28 PM
****** - Rackshack - Inactive - Acct Closed-see my notes - - Verified address, Verified billing inf, Verified Login/pw - - All ->
.customer wanted a conf. # on the refund that was issued on 3/29 to his card. I gave it to him and also took of him email address from the contact screen so that he would not continue to receive email per the customer request.

So why post lies about us?

Is that so? Well then how come I don't have a copy of that e-mail confirming my refund? Tell me why your customer service department would hang up the phone when I had both my wife and I on the phone asking for a refund that you folks stated wouldn't be? Why do I have dated support tickets after the date you are claiming?

Patrick/WebDev, or whatever handle you want to use. I write down dates, times, and who I was speaking to, as well as notes of what was said. Having my wife get on the phone was so that I could have a witness on my end to the type of abusive treatment I was receiving from the head of your customer service department. At least that is what he was the day I spoke with him. Hopefully you folks have changed that around.

I own more than one business. I'm also a somewhat large rental property owner, so I know the value of listening to the customer. Unfortunately the cyber world doesn't have enough protection in my opinion at this time for the average consumer, and this is exactly why companies like RS treat people the way they do.

Fact is Patrick/WebDev, or whatever you want to call yourself today. You can lock this thread, and delete any posts you'd like, but RS treated the wrong man like an a$$hole, and cost me time and money. You also insulted my wife, and our intelligence, and I have one long memory for this type of treatment.

This will be investigated, any further interaction will not be on the board, Patrick-EV1 is my handle and I do not have any kind of authorization to make any modifications to any posts/threads.

Originally posted by Patrick-EV1
This will be investigated, any further interaction will not be on the board, Patrick-EV1 is my handle and I do not have any kind of authorization to make any modifications to any posts/threads.

Well Patrick, you also PM'd me under WebDev. However I'm a fair man, so I will let you folks do your investigation, and I will keep anything further on this matter off this board as well.

Directed to pobox300 and patrick-EV1: can i as a 3rd party reiterate again that this is NOT a RackShack support forum! Please handle your issues off forums.

Pobox: you are free to comment on RS as long as it has to do with the topic of the thread, which btw is RackShack's TOS. The specific questions asked by panopticon were:

1) Would the above statement hold up so you would be out of luck, or would you be able to recover your fees for the 30 days lost (since the service was not provided) by going through your credit card?

and 2) . Is there a list of things that you can or cannot do before voiding any warranty?

If you want to comment on RackShack's technical support or their level of customer service, please open up a new thread as it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

Patrick: I posted this as soon as i could so that neither you nor anyone else would take the thread a step further and actually attempt to offer or receive technical support/customer service.

Directed to Headsurfer: I am making a formal complaint right now. Please tell your employees to post a simple, "Please e-mail us at xxx@rackshack.net for more assistance." I will leave the forums, and encourage others to do so, if RS continues to try and provide support/customer service at WHT.



Directed to Everyone: I'm not trying to single out RS, as I feel that no host should be providing technical support for their customers at WHT, but this would be the 2nd time in the past week that an RS employee/representative has tried to resolve a RS issue on WHT "property". RackShack, as well as any other company is free to defend themselves against a complaint, whether it be true or false. But(Notice it's bold), at no time can any host, during their "defense" offer direct technical support on the forums to their customer to resolve the issue at hand. They are free to post explanations of why something occurred, but they should not be allowed to resolve their customer-related problems (ie, support calls, billing issues, etc) on WHT.

Back on topic: I will stand by my original remarks that Rackshack's TOS is a bit vague and strict at times, but as toastyx stated, if you are worried about a clause like that in their TOS, choose another company. I personally think that is there simply because of RackShack's low prices. They can not afford to issue refunds simply because the customer is dissatisfied with the level of service; in other words, they don't want to offer a 30-day money back guarantee. My personal feeling is that they should clarify that section of the TOS and state when (and if) they will refund payments and when they won't.

edit: I clicked submit after typing my long message a little too late. Patrick had already asked pobox to contact them off forums while i was typing. But i will still leave my post unedited just to further reiterate my feelings towards RS employees and all other hosts.

I was not providing support I was merely mooting the comments made by the user, at no time was I trying to provide any additional support to that user. It was a statement.

Where in this post was I providing support??
"Errmm?? I spoke with someone who was familiar with this and upon review, I see we issued you a refund and restored your server for resell, which were the emails you just posted up here:

4/1/02 - ***** - 4:46:28 PM
****** - Rackshack - Inactive - Acct Closed-see my notes - - Verified address, Verified billing inf, Verified Login/pw - - All ->
.customer wanted a conf. # on the refund that was issued on 3/29 to his card. I gave it to him and also took of him email address from the contact screen so that he would not continue to receive email per the customer request.

So I'm lost as to the point of this post? You were dissatisfied, there was something wrong with the server, we cancelled it, gave you a refund and restored/resold your server."

It was in direct defense to the post made.

I'm merely an employee defending the company he works for, you are singling us out now, because I've made posts before in the past defending us that no one has ever had a problem with until now.

Originally posted by Patrick-EV1
I was not providing support I was merely mooting the comments made by the user, at no time was I trying to provide any additional support to that user. It was a statement.

Where in this post was I providing support??
"Errmm?? I spoke with someone who was familiar with this and upon review, I see we issued you a refund and restored your server for resell, which were the emails you just posted up here:

4/1/02 - ***** - 4:46:28 PM
****** - Rackshack - Inactive - Acct Closed-see my notes - - Verified address, Verified billing inf, Verified Login/pw - - All ->
.customer wanted a conf. # on the refund that was issued on 3/29 to his card. I gave it to him and also took of him email address from the contact screen so that he would not continue to receive email per the customer request.

So I'm lost as to the point of this post? You were dissatisfied, there was something wrong with the server, we cancelled it, gave you a refund and restored/resold your server."

It was in direct defense to the post made.

I never said you did, but if you'll read my post again (it's been edited) carefully, you'll notice the following:

1) the subject was "before it even gets started". I wanted to make the post before you or pobox attempted to offer/receive tech support

2)Patrick: I posted this as soon as i could so that neither you nor anyone else would take the thread a step further and actually attempt to offer or receive technical support/customer service.

please PM me or contact me via AIM at adesai84 if you'd like to discuss this further :cool:

edit: while my previous post did come off as a little mean, I wasn't trying to be. nor was I trying to single out RS or Patrick. I simply posted what i did so that the issue between pobox and RS would not be taken further on WHT forums. Also, I wanted to make it known how I felt about Hosts providing tech support on WHT and to "scare" other Hosts from doing so on WHT. The way Patrick handled pobox was perfect. He drew the line at the perfect spot.

I want a refund too. :mad: I tried contacting many people about a refund and was flat out refused every single time. I was also sold a defective server. When I first got the server, I logged in and looked around quite a bit before trying to use Plesk. I'm pretty proficient with Linux, and as far as I know, I had not done anything to mess anything up. When I tried logging in with Plesk, I got a mySQL error. I tried rebooting and still got the same error. I figured it was possible I messed something up while looking around, even though I couldn't figure out what since I never touched Plesk or mySQL before trying to login, so I requested a restore. I later found out some people had a similar problem. I wasted my money on a restore to fix a problem I didn't cause. Another problem, the network my server was on had SEVERE problems. The server couldn't download more than 10 KB/s from ANYWHERE, and upload speeds were no more than 160 KB/s with many lag bursts. Even pinging RackShack.net showed severe lag bursts. I would also randomly lose my telnet connection because it was so bad. I didn't want to bother with RackShack anymore because I was afraid they would tell me they couldn't reproduce the problem, and that it's my ISP. I really didn't like Plesk either, so I requested a refund. They wouldn't give me one. They kept pointing me to the Terms of Service where it says all payments are non-refundable. They offered to let me choose another server, but there was a problem with that. All of the other Plesk servers were sold out, and I definitely didn't want Ensim. They didn't offer plain Red Hat servers at the time. They sold me a server that didn't even work right from the start. I didn't want to deal with them anymore. I was going to do a chargeback, but I never followed through with it because I figured RackShack was a good company, and I just had bad luck. So I just moved on, but now that I've heard so many people having similar issues with RackShack, I'm really starting to get mad. All the people that defend RackShack are people that happened to be lucky enough to get a server where everything worked right the first time.

If you'd like something from Rackshack please contact off forum, you shouldn't use the board as a way of asking for something. My email address is patms@ev1.net.

Akashd, while I respect you as a member... Judging from past posts by Patrick, I highyl doubt he would go and provide support. Usually he does ask that support related things be done elsewhere.

No need to get hysterical (hard to judge on a forum but all caps and exclamation points usually mean this).

Originally posted by web_res
Akashd, while I respect you as a member... Judging from past posts by Patrick, I highyl doubt he would go and provide support. Usually he does ask that support related things be done elsewhere.

No need to get hysterical (hard to judge on a forum but all caps and exclamation points usually mean this).

not getting hysterical....

As I have told many others who have commented about what I've said (including Patrick)

I feel that there should be a change as to how things are handled around here, especially now that a host (RS) owns WHT.

I wont' comment on Patrick's posts prior to RS buying WHT, nor do I care what he has posted. My point is plain and simple: hosts should not be providing technical support at WHT and customers should not be asking for it. Patrick did not provide tech support in this thread(although he did yesterday;)), and I thank him for refraining from doing so. But pobox did ask some customer service/support related questions, specifically :

Is that so? Well then how come I don't have a copy of that e-mail confirming my refund? Tell me why your customer service department would hang up the phone when I had both my wife and I on the phone asking for a refund that you folks stated wouldn't be? Why do I have dated support tickets after the date you are claiming?

Which is mainly why I posted what I did....

At no time was I trying to single out Patrick or RS for doing so, but I feel that because RS owns WHT, I should make a good, noticeable attempt to point it out when it does happen. I just want to get the "rules" set straight now, rather than later (when it gets out of control).

If you'd like to discuss this further, please PM or e-mail me

Originally posted by akashd
My point is plain and simple: hosts should not be providing technical support at WHT and customers should not be asking for it.
This is very true, however, some threads do gravitate to that and if you see this or sense it coming, simply report the post to the mods and we'll have a look at it. Please refrain from commenting on it in the thread as it shoots the thread OT and kills it.

All I know, is that the dude asked a damn question and it didn't even get answered.


What a waste!

Originally posted by UrbanXtreme
All I know, is that the dude asked a damn question and it didn't even get answered.


What a waste!

Very true, it is a waste....

but I don't think that questions can be accurately answered by anyone other than an RS representative....

Originally posted by panopticon
. . . . . . Would the above statement hold up so you would be out of luck, or would you be able to recover your fees for the 30 days lost (since the service was not provided) by going through your credit card? . . . . . If you paid for something that was never delivered, or capable of being used, your credit card company would side with you.
At least, in my experience with credit institutions.

Originally posted by Chicken

This is very true, however, some threads do gravitate to that and if you see this or sense it coming, simply report the post to the mods and we'll have a look at it. Please refrain from commenting on it in the thread as it shoots the thread OT and kills it.

I have to agree with Chicken here, but also I can understand why a host would be tempted to reply to a negative post made by a customer/ex-customer/competitor, etc. After all, you report it to the mods, the mods handle it..but what about all the people who see it in the mean time? And in the specific case of RS, wouldn't people just go crying that this is RS taking advantage of the fact that they own WHT, when the post gets handled by the mods? It seems that no matter how RS handles things, there are going to be people on this board who will cry that they are being unfair, and taking advantage. If this was any other host, there would not be pages of replies to any of these threads....

Anyway..that is just my 2 cents....I don't work for RS...but, I am a customer..and a very happy one...