I own and run the Musical Instrument Makers Forum (http://www.mimf.com). The forum software we're using, WebCrossing, requires a lot of RAM and a daemon. We're using a three-year-old version of the software and haven't been able to upgrade in a shared server environment (Verio's virtual server) because of the increase in resource requirements of the current version. In fact we just had a rather spectacular upgrade failure when everything seemed to be OK until we were operating under a full load, when the bulk of the membership showed up that evening, and the software collapsed completely when it had to deal with too many multiple simultaneous requests.

So it's time to start investigating other options. The forum is (barely) supporting me, and at 60-100 hours a week to run it I don't have time to learn Unix and become our sysadmin as well as our sysop. I also don't have a lot of money to pour into a dedicated server. $250/month is about as far as our budget will stretch, and after all my bad experiences in the past UNDER NO CONDITION will I sign a contract without first conducting a one-month trial of the software running under a load. As it's a dynamic site with constant additions to our database, good backup is essential, and that's very hard to find in our price-range. At the very least I want a mirrored HDD.

I have another half-dozen small sites I'd want to host on the same server, probably adding one or two a year.

I'm open to any suggestions/advice, as well as e-mail from hosts. However, if you're unknown or don't have a good reputation on this board, don't bother to e-mail.

Hi Deb,

You should be able to find something with that budget. I know you mentioned that you didn't want to learn linux/unix, but you could get a raq4r from http://www.tera-byte.com with two 20GB hard drives in a RAID 1 config (mirrored), 256 MB RAM, and 100gb of bandwidth. All for $229 a month. I'm sure this solution would be more than what you require. Did you ever think of changing BB software? Or would a migration over to Vbulletin not be possible.

You might also want to speak to Daniel at UltraspeedUSA. He might be able to find a good solution for you as well.

Let us know how it goes. :)

[Edited by tabernack on 01-03-2001 at 11:41 AM]

Thanks, tabernack, I'll check out both possibilities.

Migrating to another program would only be a viable solution if the new program was a significant improvement over WebCrossing. Switching to vBulletin would be swapping one set of deficiencies for another. Besides which, no other forum software I've tried can touch WebCrossing's user interface.

Hey Deb, check out http://www.liquidweb.com. There support seems fast, and there dedicated server pricings are very very good.

hi Deb you probably don't remember me from the alt.webmaster etc newsgroups :)

in all honestly what you describe i don't think a raq4 would handle your load that well and for the price you're asking it will be hard especially for mirrored hard drives and all..

i currently have a tera-byte.com/4webspace.com raq3 with 32mb, 10.2 gb and 100gb/month and 31 ips for my small in development sites for US$109/month

and thanks to Daniel at ultraspeedusa.com i will have a p3 733 with 256mb, 9gb scsi with 100gb/month and 35 ips for my vbulletin forum within a few days. for US$400 setup + US$400/month

my vbulletin forum generates over 1,000+ posts/day so need the cpu and memory to be upgradeable as i go. unfortunately, that's where raq3s and raq4s are limited - in that cpus aren't upgradeable and ram is maxed out at 512mb.

as with tabernack, i suggest giving daniel a call or email..

since Dec 22, daniel is temporarily hosting my vB forum on his Dual P3 800 gaming server until i could pay for the US$400/month - which i did yesterday :D

as to your budget, have you thought of putting up ads ? maybe an Amazon.com affiliate links to relevant products + a search box from searchbucks.com and/or searchtraffic.com ?

Yes, indeed I do remember you! Due to a Windoze/Netscape glitch I can't get to any newsgroup these days without my PC crashing, and I haven't had the time or energy to do the complete wipe-and-renistall of my HDD which is badly needed in order to get everything running right again. I have to get my PC talking to the plotter, too. I do hope to get back to usenet some day...

Thanks for the suggestions, and you too, Kunal. We're already doing the money-making stuff: advertising, affiliates, online courses, sales of tangible goods (plans for musical instruments), a voluntary susbscription on the PBS model. Here's a direct link to the MIMForum (http://www.mimf.com/cgi-bin/WebX) if you want to look around and see what we're up to.

The best option so far has come from Travis Burnside at http://www.qwk.net. Travis seems to be a regular here, and as you know, hosts with bad reputations quickly get shamed off the board. A search of his messages turns up thoughtful, informative posts and none of the "sneak some advertising in sideways" that can be so annoying on the boards. But if anyone knows anything bad about QWK.net I'd like to hear about it.

Hey Deb,
I took a look at the forum, its something like the one freewebspace.net used to use. I think they used "Rob Board". You should get it. Its quiet similar and uses far less resources. I think the link to the board was, http://www.robplanet.com/

Maybe you're thinking of another product -- that one's nothing like what we're using.

But in any case, I'd only switch to move *UP* to a better product. I don't see any out there. Different ones, yes, mostly UBB clones, but nothing that has the improved user management and message management tools that would make it worth the headache of migrating our 2,000 users and 20 staff members to new software.

wooops, I almost forgot....

Travis, has been very helpful around the board. And he hasnt been doing any sneaky promos :) But I yet think, you should take a look at liquidweb. You are getting something better for cheaper. Both the companies bandwidth cost is also, the same. It comes down to there support and honestly, I havent tested QWK's support. I was quiet satisfied with Liquidweb's support though.

Eeeps.. Sorry abt the board then. I guess I got muddled up. What exaclty are you looking for in a message board?

Let us know who you choose. Best of Luck :)

Thanks, Kunal -- I'll let everyone know what the final decision is, but it won't come for a couple of months. We're still recovering from the upgrade fiasco, and then I have to get our next online course started before I can get the move underway.

As for what I'm looking for in forum software, the short answer is TOOLS! Tools for user management, tools for message management, tools for expiration of discussions to static HTML files separate from the forum datatbase. We're basically a (sort-of) tech-support forum in the broadest sense of the term. We manage our message base very intensively, try to keep discussions short and tightly focused by moving tangential messages to new discussions, remove older messages without content ("Thanks!" "Will do") so participants don't have to wade through them, remove older discussions from the active database and archive them to a static HTML library, etc. That leaves us with a content-rich site where people can hopefully find the information they're looking for quickly without having to wade through a lot of dross to get to the gold.

Most forum software programs have few if any tools that allow us to streamline our work. They do just the opposite: make it as difficult as possible by requiring multiple server accesses to accomplish even the most simple tasks. As far as I can tell, not one of the most popular programs was written by a sysop with long-term experience running a very busy forum over a long period of time.

Wow! You do need "Tools" :) I think most of the boards, can do this. You can prune messages, and you can archive and delete them. Those options just arnt used many times, on most boards. But the options are there :)

Oh yeah, the options are there with our forum software too. But their usefulness is limited by their poor integration and a bloated sysop interface. I want GOOD tools. I'm picky. <g>

hehe.. That I can see :) "Picky" amplifide. ;)

OK, this is to let y'all know that I have decided to go with QWK.net for a dedicated server.

I didn't really give serious consideration to either 4webspace.com or tera-byte.com because I wasn't particularly interested in a RAQ -- I'm not a reseller. I just have a handful of domains, one of which is extremely resource-intensive.

I sent the same basic 20-questions e-mail to the three hosts I considered. liquidweb.com responded within the hour with a one-line "see our website" response. That let them out.

I was turned off by the dedicated server page at ultraspeedusa.com. For those of us who've been burned in the past, finding a "Dedicated Servers" page with nothing but a link to "Current Special Click Here" is a big red flag. If it's your only option it's not a "Current Special." It's your standard package. Why make it sound like a "get it now before it's gone" offer, as so many of the dishonest hosts are prone to do? I still e-mailed for prices on what I need. They didn't get back to me within 24 hours, so either they couldn't help me or weren't interested in trying. 24 hours during the work-week is my outside limit for a response to an information request.

Travis at QWK.net has answered every e-mail quickly and thoroughly, and seems to be quite flexible in what he can make available to a customer. It's not a "use one of our packages or go away" attitude. So, that's where we'll be, and I'll keep you posted on the progress of the move.

I was turned off by the dedicated server page at ultraspeedusa.com.

I also was very unimpressed by ultraspeedusa.com's dedicated server page. It looks like they either didn't spend any time to build a site for themselves, or they don't want anything in writing to be held to later. I don't like to "haggle" much, and at least I would prefer to have some framework in place to base things on for a reality check... at a minimum they should list a half dozen standard configurations and standard charges like time, bandwidth, etc...

I just signed up for a dedicated server at http://www.UltraspeedUSA.com a few weeks ago and I have to say I've been very impressed. They've got all the tools you need to be a webhost and they give excellent support. They only have one server option but you can buy more disk space, bandwidth and whatever else you need. Their hardware upgrades are a one time cost (not monthly), so don't get fooled by a lack of options. There is flexibility to spare! Their dedicated server page may not say a lot but click on the special button and see what you get. I suggest you contact them, I'm sure glad I did.

They contacted ME after my original post. I replied twice, and got no answer to either e-mail. That was enough for me to make the decision that they weren't a company I could work with, regardless of their reputation on this board.

Originally posted by Deb Suran
regardless of their reputation on this board.

Although they do indeed have a good reputation here, no matter how good you are, or how good you think you are, there's always a need for constructive criticism and feedback. I'm sure they'll take a look at this post.

Sometimes it is more helpful to know why someone *didn't* sign up with you than why they *did*.

No question but that I was right to listen to my instincts on this one and stay away from UltraspeedUSA.

I'm currently setting up my websites on a dedicated server at QWK.net, and only time will tell if that was a good decision. Travis still has a lot of work to do if he wants to make the managed server side of his business attractive to "the masses." I think we ended up being his guinea pig.

I was reading some of the trials and tribulations on your forum site the other day. Fun fun fun. Hopefully this will work out for you. :)

We need some happiness and success stories...

Deb,

I appreciate your feedback regarding your dedicated server setup experience.

I think what you're seeing is that, in the past, we've served a different market for dedicated servers. That is, they've been aimed at people who mostly perform their own systems administration.

You're obviously coming from a virtual hosting environment with a very capable control panel system. As a result, you're used to having a lot of pre-made code and techniques at your disposal, which is not something you would have with one of our current dedicated servers. Most of the work on these is done manually, which provides flexbility, but not expedience. The difference between the two server setups is rather apparent to you because you have specific and detailed requirements for the setup of your server.

It is probably time for QWK.Net to select a control panel system for dedicated server customers.

In any case, if you don't feel that the setup of your server is proceeding according to a reasonable schedule, please contact me via e-mail, and I'll make the situation right.


[Edited by Travis on 02-03-2001 at 06:46 PM]

It's going slowly, but we're getting a good price from you so I'm not gonna squawk too loudly. <g>

But yes, you will need to have some kind of control panel in place if this is going to be cost-effective for you. You're not selling a dedicated server, but a *managed* dedicated server. That includes a presumption of "they can't do it themselves." If you don't want to spend 9/10ths of your time doing it for them, you'll have to give your customers some tools. Of the 7 domains you're setting up for us on your server, I should have been able to set up 6 of them myself, and done most of the setup for mimf.com. Faster for both of us.