I thing the most proper place to discuss this matter is the lounge, hence i am putting this here.

i would like to hear your ideas about the below one-sided correspondence i had between google adsense entourage and me, and the issue in general. i was using adsense mostly out of curiousity on a small hobby site of mine. also i would like everyone to know about it so they will not get either angry, furious or numb with amazement as i happened to be.

as for me i currently cant decide whether i should laugh or amaze at the stupor degree of below stuff.

Here goes, notice that it goes from last to first, so better read from the bottom to top. :

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well well,

Upon doing some queries in developer communities, i have learnt that we were
not EVER supposed to click on the ads displaying on our sites as adsense
account holders.

This paranoia is the silliest thing i have observed on the web since 1997,
and is something more fitting of microsoft than its supposed-to-be rival.

But the problem stems from your side, you should have included statements
requiring that the account holders should do declarations to family members,
colleagues, their supervisors, and whoever they know that might be using the
same computer the account holder uses, and get their signatures that they
will not ever, never click on any ads appearing on the publisher's site. And
better yet, they should get signboards made declaring that in no condition
on the network should be utilized to click the ads on publisher's site. God
forbit computers that have multiple users. And even cant imagine computers
that are being used without changing the logged on user. Hell no.

Colleagues at our VPN learns of my site, visits it, some get into liberties
that they never should (oh, hell no) by paranoid adsense standards and goes
trigger happy, and voila ! 'Google AdSense Account Disabled'.

I cant decide which one is more stupid; being assumed to be trying to amass
some wealth by clicking on 30-40 different ads in a day at 0.02 $ per click,
or being unable to develop a logic that will discount overclicks emanating
from any computer at any network.

Now i have a strong belief that the adsense program is very probably
supervised by "Paul Bunyan", instead of related IT professionals, and i also
believe that my fellow developers in devel community should learn of this
unparaleled stupor before they get their day at work ruined.

Regards,

Ozgur Zeren
Sysadmin

Mind on the Net IT Services

GSM : +90 505 404 71 07 (preferred)
Tel : +90 242 244 42 96
Fax : +90 242 244 32 76

Email : info@mindonthenet.com

ICQ : 680 172 75
MSN : bookturkey@hotmail.com
Skype : ozgurzeren

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ozgur Zeren" <ozgurzeren@bookturkey.com>
To: "Google AdSense" <adsense-adclicks@google.com>
Cc: "Google AdSense" <adsense-adclicks@google.com>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:43 AM
Subject: Re: Google AdSense Account Disabled


> Greetings,
>
> This is most odd. We have neither used automatic scripts, software or
> anything, or have arranged anybody to do it for us.
>
> I must admit that i cant understand what has happened.
>
> Regards,
>
> Ozgur Zeren
> Sysadmin
>
> Mind on the Net IT Services
>
> GSM : +90 505 404 71 07 (preferred)
> Tel : +90 242 244 42 96
> Fax : +90 242 244 32 76
>
> Email : info@mindonthenet.com
>
> ICQ : 680 172 75
> MSN : bookturkey@hotmail.com
> Skype : ozgurzeren
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Google AdSense" <adsense-adclicks@google.com>
> To: <ozgurzeren@bookturkey.com>
> Cc: "Google AdSense" <adsense-adclicks@google.com>
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:01 AM
> Subject: Google AdSense Account Disabled
>
>
> > Hello Ozgur Zeren,
> >
> > It has come to our attention that invalid clicks have been generated on
> > the Google ads on your site(s). We have therefore disabled your Google
> > AdSense account. Please understand that this step was taken in an
> > effort to protect the interest of the AdWords advertisers.
> >
> > A publisher's site may not have invalid clicks on any ad(s), including
> > but not limited to clicks generated by a publisher on his own web
> > pages, clicks generated through the use of robots, automated clicking
> > tools, or any other deceptive software.
> >
> > Practices such as these are in violation of the Google AdSense Terms
> > and Conditions and program polices, which can be viewed at:
> >
> > https://www.google.com/adsense/localized-terms?hl=en_US
> > https://www.google.com/adsense/policies?hl=en_US
> >
> > Publishers disabled for invalid click activity are not allowed further
> > participation in AdSense and do not receive any further payment. The
> > earnings on your account will be properly returned to the affected
> > advertisers.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > The Google AdSense Team
> >
> >
>

I'm reallly surprised that Google hasn't come up with a way to log your IP address that you use to login and check your account with, and then just set those to Null or no earnings if you or anyone else on that IP clicks on them, rather than disabling your account.

There are plenty of times that I have seen ads on my site that I do want to check out, but can't click on them, always end up re-typing the url in the address and visiting that way, however some of the time you don't actually get to the site you are looking for or the ad because the person is using a landing page, which you will NEVER see unless you click on the ad directly..

Being rude to them wont get your account back, but im guessing you dont want it back.

There are plenty of times that I have seen ads on my site that I do want to check out, but can't click on them, always end up re-typing the url in the address and visiting that way, however some of the time you don't actually get to the site you are looking for or the ad because the person is using a landing page, which you will NEVER see unless you click on the ad directly..

I e mailed them about this and a week or so later i got told there is a devise, but i've forgotten where it is!

Also, I saw a doughnut machine advert on my site and i was truely interested so i click them both! Now if I'm interested in something why the heck shouldn't I get paid for it!?

I guess saying that $200 other dollars was because I was interested is going a bit fair ;) :emlaugh:

Originally posted by affordahost
Also, I saw a doughnut machine advert on my site and i was truely interested so i click them both! Now if I'm interested in something why the heck shouldn't I get paid for it!?


Technically yes you should get paid for it if you are geniunely interested, however because people abuse the system and you could click links just to make money, everyone pays the price for that.

Originally posted by Hostex Australia
Being rude to them wont get your account back, but im guessing you dont want it back.

ah well, i believe i had been sufficiently polite as the situation allows.

and what difference would it make to get account back ? to enter a world of delusional paranoia that every web publisher are seen as psychopatic ad-clickers ? warn my family, friends, colleagues of that they wouldnt click on anything if they ever use a computer i have used so that for such and such reason such and such should not befall us ?

well hell no.

for god's sakes, ignoring clicks when neccessary was a system adopted in the earliest years of internet when banners first came around.

guys and gals, i honestly hereby admit that i REALLY CANT BELIEVE that google has a service like adsense that cannot devise a solution for a situation as simple as this. this is probably the 2 or 3rd time i have been so surprised with something that i came up on the net.

Well gee, I wonder why it's such a bad thing to click on your own ads. Those delusional Google Adsense people.

Oh, wait a second. Maybe, just maybe it's because people are paying Google for those clicks and that click fraud is rampant. No that can't be it.

As an advertiser that has been stung by click fraud to the tune of hundreds of dollars I frankly have little sympathy if you are so cavalier about the idea that Google may want to police the practice of people clicking on ads that appear on people's own sites.

Frankly, I have been unforgiving of Google for precisely the opposite reason - they do not do enough to combat or refund click fraud even when pointed out to them.

Maybe you ought to try Google Adwords and advertise on the Content Network and measure ROI for those clicks and you'll understand why Google banned you or somebody else clicking on ads on your own site. If they only had a dollar for everyone who might have a story like yours, however legit it is. The fact is that you had a bunch of people visiting a site from one IP - looks suspicious, and if you're participating in a program that has as many fraud problems as Google you should have been much more circumspect.

I can sort of sympathise with the paranoia that some fellow Adsence users suffer from. I use Adsence on a couple of my sites, and indeed I have never clicked on any of them, but like Trifolic have directly visited advertiser sites from the urls.

I also worry because I sometimes log into my adsense account from shared computers, and also at work. There is no way I would be able to make sure that noone looks at any of mysites from them when I am not there. Also, how far to google take this? There are thousands of computers at work, and almost a hundred on the same class D network as the one I normally use. What do google make of consectutive IP addresses clicking?

All in all, I think its best just to make sure that you are not purposely violating the terms and conditions and just have faith that google know what they are doing. After all, although you do hear a few stories of account terminations where the user is claiming to be innocent, there are not really that many given the number of accounts.

Also, it is not like google can tell us how they determine invalid clicks as this would only let the dishonest users know what they can do.

EDIT: I also wanted to say that I agree with a previous poster that google should just discount clicks from IPs you have previously logged in from. This would stop me being paranoid about accidentally clicking an ad when working on the site (not that this has ever happened, but I am still paranoid). Also, because I sometimes am interested in the advert, but agree that as the owner of the website the advert is shown on, I should not receive any revenue from that click - and would not expect to.

Originally posted by DevilDog
Well gee, I wonder why it's such a bad thing to click on your own ads. Those delusional Google Adsense people.

Maybe you ought to try Google Adwords and advertise on the Content Network and measure ROI for those clicks and you'll understand why Google banned you or somebody else clicking on ads on your own site. If they only had a dollar for everyone who might have a story like yours, however legit it is. The fact is that you had a bunch of people visiting a site from one IP - looks suspicious, and if you're participating in a program that has as many fraud problems as Google you should have been much more circumspect.

Well gee,

I have been utilizing google adwords since it has gone out of beta first for my business related to tourism industry and then later on for web hosting & it services continously and i am utilizing it still.

i probably wouldnt need to mention that i have been running text ads, image ads both in search networks and content network, and also worldwide, not limiting any country out.

i also would add we have gained quite a many subscriptions from both ad types, including a peak when 40 well paying customers signed up from content network image banner ad in a month.

and also i can add that, having utilized both adwords and adsense in quite a long time, disabling an account for 40 suspected clicks that will amass around a total of $ 0.8 in an adsense account in 1.5 day's time IS utter paranioa. a delusional one indeed. if any adwords user needs such an amount for a day in a year, hell, even every 3 months in a year, they should immediately pm me so that i can dispatch the amount to their bank account.

and it is clear that you are missing the point; the point is not the fight against fraud - it is the complete inability to develop something that will ignore repeated clicks from any address that has gone over some percentage or quota. i still really cant believe they are not able for it.

i have participated in many other ad networks, banner exchanges, commission and referral schemes since 2000, and with no service i have witnessed such idiocy.

no, i cant understand adsense.

on the other hand it rather now seems clear to me whats going on ; google chose the wrong personas for management & policy in adsense program.

I have to agree that Google should not only discount but not charge for multiple clicks on Adsense or even on their Search Network Ads. We are in complete agreement on that topic.

I have even shown Google cases where individuals clicked on my Adwords ad 5 times in less than a minute and they gave me the standard: We're sorry but our proprietary system doesn't show any sign of click fraud.

What makes me laugh is how many people consider Google to be the darling of the Internet. So pure, so altruistic, so unconcerned with profits.

Here is the bottom line: almost all their revenue comes from Adwords search and content networks. As you have noted they don't police and refund multiple clicks the way they ought and it is going to catch up to them eventually as advertisers get fed up.

I stopped advertising on the content network over a year ago and many companies who measure ROI do the same. It's mainly the new advertisers who haven't figured out PPC that advertise on the content network. This is what makes Google particularly evil - they prey on new advertisers who many times spend themselves out of the network.

So, you might understand why I have very little sympathy if somebody says they got banned from Adsense. I don't think they do enough banning or policing personally. Forty clicks from a single site in 1.5 days seems incredibly excessive. I may understand the particulars of your case but you still have to admit that it would appear to Google as fraud.

devildog,

there are countries that where some 'enterpreneurs' hire people to do the clicking on their site's ads to accumulate money. this thing is handled like in an affiliate/commission program. this is in generally 3rd world countries, so that the little payout webmaster gives out to participants is worth the trouble.

adsense can never detect and pursue these people, because the 'affiliates' are no different than ordinary site/community members. and they will not be able to do this too, as any logic that would include those kind of 'visitors' will encompass normal visitors with a high percentage too. so adsense does not pursue such persecution.

you have to find out and exclude such countries if you want higher ROI on your content ads.

how this matter reflects on us here ?

while incapable of detecting and handling such grand-scale affairs, the incapable policy makers at adsense paws on just 5-10 suspicious clicks from an account holder.

see an irrelevancy here ? yes. the major fraud costs around extra thousands of dollars per site per month, whereas the issue led to this topic costs around $ 0.8 tops, in one day.

there is no direct connection between these. any publisher who is bent on frauding the system DOES (and they always did) come up with much ingenuine setups for averting fraud detection. and they never go for a $ 0.8 per day either.

yes, google is not the darling of internet. but it was something as close as something got near that in the history of the internet.

so when somebody like me sees such unparallelled stupor in implementing some technology whereas that entity, google excels in many other things it does, it is most natural to be appalled and reach a quick conclusion that the wrong selections had been made for running this project.

:( :0 :P :| :)

Really! Why don't they IP??

Yeah google does have a IP logging device but for some reason they prefer disabling your account. If you have a adwords account contact your personal rep and he will have your account back up within 24 hours. Just don't click your ads anymore:P

lol. I'll click them for you :)

Originally posted by lbwd
lol. I'll click them for you :)

Click fraud does not have to be executed by the owner of the adsense account. It can be considered click fraud if a total stranger clicks your ads 20 times.

Not from Dif. IP's. I was JK anyway.

Start a "Clicking-Campaign". And advertise it with AdSense. LOL :P

Originally posted by lbwd
Not from Dif. IP's. I was JK anyway.

Yes any ip that clicks repeatedly on ads on a adsense site will be considered click fraud. I am not talking about 2-3 clicks.

Typo. Meant "No -- From Dif. IP's."
BTW: I wasn't talking about multi clicks, I was talking about fake targeted traffic, not the obvious kind.

Don't quote me again unless you have something worth wasting characters.

to be honest im not so sure i want to run google ads anymore

with this paranoia on rampage at adsense, anyone can launch a joe job attack on a competitor's site. just gather up 4-5 helpers to be more effective and voila.

Don't display ads. Charge clients to keep ads off of their website :)

OMFG I never thought google would also 'Hijack' peoples earnings.

You never really get paid at the end of the day ;) no matter what crappy affiliate you use.

Originally posted by lbwd
Typo. Meant "No -- From Dif. IP's."
BTW: I wasn't talking about multi clicks, I was talking about fake targeted traffic, not the obvious kind.

Don't quote me again unless you have something worth wasting characters.

No need to get heated mate.

Originally posted by lbwd
Don't display ads. Charge clients to keep ads off of their website :)

note that this is unrelated to hosting business. we dont display ads on our website, nor can put any ads on our customer's sites, because they are all paid customers.