(Sorry, I don't know where to post this.
Mods, feel free to move this thread where it belongs)

This is a rant.
I have been many times appalled when I looked at some offers that you find on WHT now and then...you know the type of offer that makes you think "Wow this guy is selling his shirt and his mother for $.02/month". Just makes you wonder how the heck anyone could expect them to be still around in a couple months.
At least, when I make an offer, there's something for my business to win. Maybe more money, maybe more consumer awareness... well you get the idea: 'something'.

But now, even more irritating, I see a new trend: the "me too" offers. Not only some of these guys get a pre-configured server and don't know jack about hosting, and that's giving a bad image of this business, but now when someone posts a really nice/new/interesting offer, you can bet that in the following 72 hours you'll see at least 3 or 4 other guys posting the same offer. Almost a copy/paste...
So now not only do they have no technical knowledge, but their business plan is one sentence: 'copy other's offers'. Not to mention that it seems to revolve around WHT, and WHT only.


I don't know, it's not my vision of running a business...

OK, I'm done ranting. Sorry guys (and gals!).

-Chris.

Edit: I really do not mean to offend the honest/good hosts who read this; I know that it can be difficult to offer something original, I'm only writing about some very blatant cases.

One word.....I agree.

Oh no thats two.

But still I do agree with what you are saying, I may not own my own hosting business but as a customer, I know how a lot of so called "good hosts" make honest quality hosts look bad.

It's a shame, but I don't know what can be done about it. :(

Chris,

I disagree on what you are saying. First, why do you think copying offering is wrong? Even Dell copies the configuration and price after HP puts up a promotion. In hosting, the packages are all price vs. bandwidth and space. All software all pretty much standard. You have to understand that hosting is commodity. Will you blame Samsung for copying the function of GE? Like laptop, some manufacturers use better hardware than the others or provide better support than the others. Still, it is a commodity business.

Also, what is the problem of someone buying a pre-configured server and starting a hosting business? Do you know chip designing companies do not make their own chips? They all use foundry such as TSMC and UMC and others. This is just because everyone has their core competence.

So, I don't understand what you had that kind of feeling. This is simply the dynamic of the industry.

Unless you can point out some true evidence, I don't think it is right to imply that hosts that use pre-confured servers are not technical.

If they can make the business model works, then they succeed (no matter whether they have a business plan you like or whether they copy offers from others). If they don't know anything, of couse they won't succeed. Time will judge.

Anne

I feel you Chris. :) But thats called open competition, albeit , unoriginal. Think about industrial espionage on a minuscle level.
:D

I have found sometimes, upon closer glance, that some of the most blatant "twin syndrome" ads are from companies in alliance with one another. Hence it might explain the word to word repetition. I once purchased hosting space here that was going for what I believe was very very cheap. The company is Kaging systems I think. The plan was for something like $2.99, with all the features I needed for development, while my dedicated server was down. Aside from the initial communication with the owner during set up....I have not had any other contact with him. You know why? His $2.99 plan is a 100 times better than the $35 plans I have had before from "bigger" companies. I have not had even one downtime. So higher priced packages does not equal higher level support or customer satisfaction.

heh...**I need to quit getting up in the middle of the night to come read WHT.

I think that copying of offers is not a problem at all. Any company can make such an offer which nobody will be able (or nobody will want) to copy. For example: the industry leader Verio which has tens of thousands customers offers accounts with 12.5 GB traffic and 300 MB storage for $99. Why nobody copies this offer? :D :D :D

I disagree on the principle that competition is what makes prices go down. Without competition we would all be microsoft...

Wait, one of us would be microsoft, the other 20,000 would be the insects that M$ steps on while walking up the ladder...

Don't let it get to you .. consumers are not stupid, yes, you might loose a sale that day, but people hat dont' know what they doing having a terrific way of loosing clients to those who do :D

Originally posted by CRego3D
Don't let it get to you .. consumers are not stupid, yes, you might loose a sale that day, but people hat dont' know what they doing having a terrific way of loosing clients to those who do :D

What would help a lot is if hosts are willing to help customers find a *good* host.

I don't know, perhaps hosts are a little snarky with slow sales, but when customers have questions, it would be nice to help them out. For if they're not satisfied they'll go to the competitor, and worse, tell their friends and more about their bad experience.

AOL doesn't get their reputation for nothing!

Chris

The real problem as I see it....is with so many offers and "resellers" offering services like they were actual hosts (hosts being the people with the support, network structure, owners of the equipment, owners of the datacenter, etc.) -- the consumer of hosting services has a much tougher task determining who is legitimate and who is not. While competition is good, we all know that much of the "competition" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.....and that in the end as a consumer of web hosting services you should be aware that legitimate businesses charge a legitimate price to provide your business with the protections, expertise and support you should expect from a web host. Why would you trust your online business or project to someone that can't possibly afford to be in business (if they really are to begin with) based on the prices they post here. If you've priced DS3's, Fire Protection systems, generators, good support people, insurance, data backup systems, telephone support, servers, software, licenses, etc., etc., etc. lately....then you know....this IS NOT a business that cab be given away for $4.95 a month....not legitimatley and not by anyone with a goal of building a "real" business.

You do get what you pay for....and by what I see here, many of you are not getting much (if you look behind the scenes and understand whats really there).

My three cents......

Having somebody take your idea is always frustrating, and one of the unfortunate sides of business. But I agree with akwong. Part of being a successful business is stoking out what the competition has to offer, and being able to match this. Most successful businesses will take the ideas of someone else, and mold it to create something better. Did you in Xerox originally invented the mouse? Xerox was not the one who obtained the patent for it though. This is something that is not only common in business, but an unfortunate necessity.

Now obviously I'm not talking about blatantly ripping an idea. More along the lines of keeping in touch with the competition.

Originally posted by helper
.....and that in the end as a consumer of web hosting services you should be aware that legitimate businesses charge a legitimate price to provide your business with the protections, expertise and support you should expect from a web host. Why would you trust your online business or project to someone that can't possibly afford to be in business (if they really are to begin with) based on the prices they post here.

What makes it confusing for the consumer is the wide range of prices for basically the same service. To me a price difference of $20 to $50 per plan (with the same features) is a lot. On a customer level, one would usually go with the cheapest price by default, as they don't have a clue otherwise (and hosts telling them to do a search for a quick answer doesn't cut it -- if you want business be willing to get it by helping and winning a sale by showing you care -- like making a FAQ [you have them on your sites, why not here where customers come to research and ask for hosting?]). If a host can't answer the basic questions here, a customer would question how they'd get it if they paid -- especially if they read snarky posts here too.

What I'm saying is: you have to give to get.

Advice from someone with ad/sales/PR experience.

Chris

Originally posted by helper
The real problem as I see it....is with so many offers and "resellers" offering services like they were actual hosts (hosts being the people with the support, network structure, owners of the equipment, owners of the datacenter, etc.) -- the consumer of hosting services has a much tougher task determining who is legitimate and who is not. While competition is good, we all know that much of the "competition" is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.....and that in the end as a consumer of web hosting services you should be aware that legitimate businesses charge a legitimate price to provide your business with the protections, expertise and support you should expect from a web host. Why would you trust your online business or project to someone that can't possibly afford to be in business (if they really are to begin with) based on the prices they post here. If you've priced DS3's, Fire Protection systems, generators, good support people, insurance, data backup systems, telephone support, servers, software, licenses, etc., etc., etc. lately....then you know....this IS NOT a business that cab be given away for $4.95 a month....not legitimatley and not by anyone with a goal of building a "real" business.

You do get what you pay for....and by what I see here, many of you are not getting much (if you look behind the scenes and understand whats really there).

My three cents......

I can't agree more, also, you have to take in mind who get this bussines as an extra money and who do it as a job.
None of us who do hosting for as a job will work 16+ hours at day to get $1000/month, at least, I wont do it, I think that my time worth more than $0.50 ctvs/hour.

The cheapy hosts are selling to a totally different market, which this forum seems to attract.

We have a market too. There are those who want to pay more reasonable prices for quality hosting from a business that has been around for awhile.

I still post in the advertising section, because I'm not going to throw away free advertising. But we don't expect to compete for those looking for ultra cheap hosting.

It really is a bloodbath in that cheap hosting sector though. I'm glad that we don't have to compete for that $1 per account that we might make, but only if the customer doesn't require any tech support and doesn't use all of their bandwidth or cpu resources.

I agree with a lot of poitns brought out in this forum, but
let me play devil's advocate here...

I't wouldn't be an issue if you didn't post here. This forum's beauty is that the smallest of smallest webhosts have the ability to get clients to get started. Once they're started they'll soon realize that selling 1 dollar accounts won't hhelp them too much. But its those first few clients that can help them get off the ground.

Originally posted by anantatman

I't wouldn't be an issue if you didn't post here. This forum's beauty is that the smallest of smallest webhosts have the ability to get clients to get started. Once they're started they'll soon realize that selling 1 dollar accounts won't hhelp them too much. But its those first few clients that can help them get off the ground.

sadly I didn't see any of those cheap host survive more than 6 month.
Or they get bored to work endless days for peanuts or they just can't pay their bills.
Oh.. correction, dixie (I'm not sure if I spelled correct), I think that's the only cheap host that I saw born in this forum that have more than 6 month alive.