Hello all,

Ive recently come across Ruby on Rails (RoR) and have started to learn Ruby. While the language seems interesting (hard at times), I'm beginning to like it. For some reason though, I prefer PHP.

Ive also done some reading online on articles about RoR. Ive found out that RoR is nothing new, its just another MVC framework developed for web apps in Ruby. So what makes this framework stand out from already implemented frameworks such as .net and Java?

They say that web application development using RoR is much easier to do than using other frameworks. Some find RoR more adaptable for smaller projects as to enterprise scale projects.

I'd also like to mention that Im not a programmer. I dont like programming chunks of code to develop a desktop application. Ive briefly touched on programming languages in the past such as Delphi, C++, and Java. I could get somewhere with programmin, but I dont think I'll like it.

I see myself more as a web application developer, developing web applications, interactive websites, and some graphics here and there. Currently I've been constructing web sites using HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SQL and MySQL as the database server.

Im looking to see whether I should make the switch to using an MVC framework like Ruby on Rails or to keep it much simpler and practical using PHP, since I already have experience in this area.

Its also worth considering that PHP is coming out with its own version of Ruby on Rails, called Cake. Other PHP variants include PHP on Trax and others.

If I decide to learn Ruby on Rails, I will have to consider learning Ruby, a pure Object Oriented language, which will demand most of my time and effort. I'd rather spend this time developing my personal web application online using the knowledge I already know.

What concerns me more importantly is the fact that Ruby on Rails has only been released recently (this year, if im not mistaken). PHP, on the other hand has been around for a longer time and is more popular/commonly used in industry.

Given all the essentials. Will RoR eventually catch up with PHP? Should I start learning RoR now? Is it worth making the switch from PHP to RoR?

Im looking to learning/using something that I could also use and benefit from in my career. Your insights will be appreciated.

Kriz

Unfortunately, I see PHP as the only language worth developing in if you're going to distribute a run of the mill forum script for LAMP servers. All of the support PHP, maybe 5% support Ruby / on Rails.

Originally posted by Kriz
Ive also done some reading online on articles about RoR. Ive found out that RoR is nothing new, its just another MVC framework developed for web apps in Ruby. So what makes this framework stand out from already implemented frameworks such as .net and Java?

Its just another powerful tool to build dynamic web apps with. Its just that its much simpler (from what I can tell) than PHP... I haven't used it *yet* but I have seen some of the code. Very clean and to the point.

Im looking to see whether I should make the switch to using an MVC framework like Ruby on Rails or to keep it much simpler and practical using PHP, since I already have experience in this area.

I can understand what you mean. I know php pretty well now, but its a good idea not to get too comfortable. RoR is supposed to be a lot simpler than php to get the same apps built.

If I decide to learn Ruby on Rails, I will have to consider learning Ruby, a pure Object Oriented language, which will demand most of my time and effort. I'd rather spend this time developing my personal web application online using the knowledge I already know.

If you already know php, switching to a new language is going to be a lot easier than you think.

What concerns me more importantly is the fact that Ruby on Rails has only been released recently (this year, if im not mistaken). PHP, on the other hand has been around for a longer time and is more popular/commonly used in industry.

You are confusing 2 things here. Ruby has been around for quite a while, same with php. RoR is a framework built with Ruby. Same as Cake. Cake hasn't been around for very long now either...

Given all the essentials. Will RoR eventually catch up with PHP? Should I start learning RoR now? Is it worth making the switch from PHP to RoR?

I believe its worth learning. Doesn't mean you have to stop using php. But you might find knowing RoR and Ruby will make you a better web developer and in the near future you might have some skills that people want so you have work.

Marble,

To me RoR is just another MVC. Theres no big hype to it except that it uses Ruby which helps develop applications quicker because of Ruby's syntax as compared to Java or C++.

Also Java Struts (Java's version of Ruby on Rails) is an MVC, but targetted for large scale web applications. Same thing goes for .net and others.

Ruby on Rails to me seems like a mini version framework compared to Struts and .Net, but is ideal for rapid development of small - medium sized web applications. Who knows, Cake (PHP's version of RoR) might be like this aswell. Although it seems unlikely from what I'm hearing because of PHP OO implementation (correct me if I am wrong).

So its another MVC made for web app developers, but its not widely used yet. This is what worry's me. I feel more comfortable with PHP, because its one of the languages most commonly used in most websites.

In other words, I'm not really keen on learning a language that might not be used a lot in the future, let alone not have too many job offerings with. Maybe in a few years this might change. If thats the case, then I'll start learning Ruby and RoR. Who knows, by then something else might be out.

Right now my mentality is, I'm keeping it simple and practical. Meaning, Stick with what you know best. It's useful and it works, which give results.Theres no need for me to jump up and down, just because another MVC has been released.

Im a bit stubborn, but very open to opinions. What do you think?

Ruby is a very powerful language. It some aspects, it stands far ahead of PHP, like its extensive support for muti threading, and Object orientation.

But I suggest you to use PHP. Ruby DOEST NOT HAVE PROPER SUPPORT resources on the web :| That fact made me start my own ruby support site. (under construction) http://myruby.org/forum

And some argue that PHP's gonna become obsolete and Ruby's gonna take over. I dont believe that! Even big companies like oracle, IBM.. etc have started using PHP

Originally posted by Kriz

I'd also like to mention that Im not a programmer. I dont like programming chunks of code to develop a desktop application. Ive briefly touched on programming languages in the past such as Delphi, C++, and Java. I could get somewhere with programmin, but I dont think I'll like it.

I see myself more as a web application developer, developing web applications, interactive websites, and some graphics here and there. Currently I've been constructing web sites using HTML, CSS, JavaScript, SQL and MySQL as the database server.


I find this a bit odd. You don't like programming chunks of code but you see yourself as a web application developer. Are you under the impression that web applications don't require you to write "chunks of code" ? Some web applications have a huge amount of code, how much code do you think eBays site uses? Maybe what you mean is that you see yourself more like a guy that makes small websites with a bit of trivial dynamic content generation?


Regardless, I think these frameworks that force a particular style of doing things are highly overrated. Regarding Ruby the last time I looked at it...it seemed like an ugly language, does anybody know of a decent introduction to it (one that does more than just trivial code examples..but show cases all its features etc)?

Its sort of ironic that http://myruby.org/forum is running on php = )

I'm so sick of these php message boards that all look the same.

Ruby has a wacky syntax, but its poweful. That is what i said in my last post, ruby has no proper resources! And that is why I opened myruby.org :D

Its sort of ironic that http://myruby.org/forum is running on php = )

I'm so sick of these php message boards that all look the same.


I knew someone would ask that question. Its not at all ironic :) Ruby is NEW, I dont know of a good forum written in Ruby :) And practical implementation is a bit difficult.

And the site is still under construction. Looks can be changed whenever you want !

I agree, their is not a lot of documentation online. There is the Pickaxe book version 1 (which I prefer to use as a reference) that is free, while the version 2 you have to buy.

Alternatively I've found other websites such as:
- http://www.poignantguide.net/ruby/
- http://www.loudthinking.com/arc/000199.html
- http://pine.fm/LearnToProgram/
- http://pleac.sourceforge.net/pleac_ruby/index.html

and a couple others. Compared to its rival Python, Python is more explicit style syntax and Ruby is more implicit. At least in my opinion.

I find Python a lot easier to use and have recently found out that it is releasing Django (Python's version of Ruby on Rails). What intrigues me about Python is the numerous documentation, support and libraries available. Apparently, it is also a language being used in Google's technology.

They say Ruby is more flexible, and I can see why. Especially evident with Ruby blocks and iterators. Was difficult to understand this feature at first, but it serves a purpose if you want to write shorter lines of code.

Im wondering if any PHP users have moved on to using Ruby and Ruby on Rails and is willing to share their experience.