What do you think of it so far? Any recs on good sites?

I've been messing with it for a week and I'm pretty impressed, anyone at WHT using it or have some projects they completed with it?

What are you impressed about exactly?

Well it was a lot faster for the type of stuff a couple of us are working on here, mostly web blog / article database / backend to database tools, most of the setup is already built into ruby. Just seems we can go from design to concept quicker then the php we were using, code to do this is smaller as well.

I haven't heard of this yet, but from what you say it sounds pretty cool. I may check it out.

Ruby is real cool. I have yet to program anything with it, but I have been reading about it and played with the cli version on windows.

I am trying to convince my host to install it on their shared servers. From what I have read it has a huge fan base in Japan. If you are a serious web programmer and into open source technology, I'd say start learning it. I don't think it will be long before its more common outside Asia and I am already starting to see job postings for Ruby programmers.

Its a neat language.

Yep, I got it installed on my server a few days ago, not too hard to do took a few hours since I don't usually install it and the fast CGI mod was something new. Working great now, would be just amazing if Cpanel or Plesk took the needed step and added support for it now with a control panel interface of sometime for new rails applications.

I have been playing round with it a bit for a couple of months using IRB (the interactive console) which came with my Mac's.

What got me started was seeing how much you could do with so little using Ruby on Rails.

I find it to be a really clean language, as simple or if not simpler than Python.

I have been developing with RubyOnRails and I do not plan to go back to PHP/ASP or any other language for Web platform. Completed 3 projects with RoR so far and I can assure your development speed will blow up your mind:)

I've started learning Rails... I'm happy to say it lives up to the hype. Haven't completed any projects yet (still learning) but my host (Dreamhost) has Rails up and running, which is great.

The only downside I could think of was a Rails app will take slightly more time/CPU resources than a similar PHP app. But so you save so much time when you work with Rails, that it's totally worth it.

Well it was a lot faster for the type of stuff a couple of us are working on here, mostly web blog / article database / backend to database tools, most of the setup is already built into ruby. Just seems we can go from design to concept quicker then the php we were using, code to do this is smaller as well.

Are you are talking about Ruby on Rails (http://www.rubyonrails.org) or Ruby itself?

Ruby on Rails is definitely interesting. I haven't done any significant programming with Ruby on Rails but from what I have done and seen it looks like Ruby on Rails is a huge development time saver. The amount of things you can do with so little code was a big shocker to me. This is one language that is going to get some more attention from me.

RoR is rea powerful ! I'm still learning ruby. And its true that ruby doesnt have much resources a newbie could refer to.

So i registered http://myruby.org
http://myruby.org/forum

My idea is to create a big community for ruby enthusiasts with a lot of support for newbies. The site would be a greate resource for articles, ruby code..

I'm busy with other projects right now :( If anybody would like to lend me a helping hand and becom a community liaison at myruby, I'd be more than happy !

Ruby is my new favorite language, for a number of reasons. RubyonRails makes it even sweeter for web development. I've quit messing with PHP & Python for the simple fact that I can do everything better and/or faster in Ruby. I'm starting on a couple projects using RubyonRails. I've spent hours writting classes and such in PHP, but since everything in Ruby is an object, a lot of those classes are unneeded.

kailash, good idea, I was going to start something like that, but never got around to it. I've bookmarked your site, and will probably help out sooner or later.

A good resource for Ruby is http://rubycentral.com/book/index.html

do they suport html funneling of posts?

I recently built my first production site using Ruby on Rails. The following is my opinion on Ruby and Rails and a mini-postmortem of the project as a whole:

+ Ruby as a language is powerful, though there's little it offers that you couldn't get from something like Python. That said, Ruby's syntax is often cleaner than Python's.

+ Rails is a very, very powerful framework that complements Ruby perfectly. It would be difficult to match the simplicity and clean design of Rails in another language - Python included.

+ ActiveRecord rocks, plain and simple.

- Most hosts don't offer Rails (contrast to PHP)

- Those that do are just beginning to offer support and as such have rough edges.

- The current 'recommended' way of running Rails is using FCGI, which is a big nasty hack.

- Templates can get ugly if you're not careful. This can be mitigated by using helpers more often, as I started to discover towards the end of the project.

Finally, a completely subjective measurement of the problems I had with the project were as follows:

1. Hosting issues - including my host upgrading Rails 90% of the way through the project and breaking most of the site, corrupted subversion repositories - 50%

2. Programmer error - ordinary bugs, mistakes, etc. that occured during the development of the project, reimplementation of the security subsystem - 30%

3. Learning Ruby/Rails and Rails bugs - poor or out of date documentation in some cases, bugs in Rails itself causing a few minor issues, learning a few esoteric Ruby techniques on the fly, crap date validation - 20%

The only thing I disagree with is is you saying FCGI is a nasty hack. When it's only aa issue when using Apache. Which is one of the reasons I don't use Apache(besides it being bloated and a pain). I've found Lighttpd to work a lot better.

Ya there are several hosts that do ruby on rails well, textdrive, site5, etc

Did anyone happen to try out CakePHP (http://www.cakephp.com/)? It's a Rails-like framework for PHP. :)

Ruby is cool--it's a fine language, nothing wrong with it. I've been a little into rudy since just a little after it first it come out, actually. Personally, I don't think it's going to be the next big thing. There's a lot of languages out there. Programming in ruby over another language instead, is fine, nothing wrong with it. If you like it, use it. It will continue to grow, I think, but if you want to try and keep up on, learn and really use, every new interesting or cool language that pops up, you'll never have the time to really get exceptional at any one, unless you already are--so then why bother unless you're bored? I think for the best foundation, C is best. Beyond that, I code mostly in Perl, because it literally does absolutely every single thing I could ever want to do. I.e., someone that can master Perl wouldn't have any legitimate reason to use ruby. However, no harm or anything in them switching if that's what they want to do.

After it was slashdotted a few months ago, there's been a lot more hype, what with RoR/Ajax, and that's fine, some people jumped on it and want to take it further. There's a lot of cool languages out there, and I've never been a fan of PHP, so comparing it to that needs to make no sale to me. :-) Anyway, I've been installing ruby on every server and system (I use Linux and FreeBSD at home, too), for years. I just don't find the time, interest, or desire/reason to really delve into it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's not worth it, but there's enough languages out there and I really don't think trying to learn every new thing that gets a lot of recent press is going to interest me enough to take me away from other great languages (like Perl). I know people say "but if you knew this" or "if you had to do this" or "if you looked into it more", but I have and it's not the Golden Child some people are going on about like it is. Very cool, though!

Yeah, I don't see any reason to learn Ruby if you already know something like Perl. I don't see it giving you anything useful that you don't already have in Perl, plus perl has so much more resources available. But I perfer php5 over any other 'scripting language' for web applications. For the web the only reason perl may be better is if you needed to do something that is really computationally expensive, but in that case I'd just use java (i.e. servlets).

It depends, regarding other examples like PHP and Perl. They are both literally just as quick and easy to code a good program in (not some just simple one with problems, bugs or holes, I mean), and no more difficult than something like ruby (since that's the subject at hand).

I'm not sure why people feel the way they do about Perl over PHP or PHP over Perl, or ruby, for that matter, since they can all be ran as a module, embed code or placeholders, or tags, in web pages, run as CGI, CLI, or whatever. If you know them all just as well as the other, provided you use the right interface or module/extension or whatever, I don't see any one being any faster or quicker to code in, nor any one being better suited for web development over another.

Some have different ways and ideas about doing it, but overall, Perl is more mature, powerful and feature rich--assuming you like the language and syntax and are familiar with it, ruby, PHP, Python, etc., nothing has any advantage to it. But, I say this as someone that's not a big fan of Java (or JSP/servlets), which is just a personal preference for me anyway, so it doesn't mean a lot in a language debate to anyone reading it.

If someone's looking to do OO, and doesn't like Python, ruby might be something they really "dig". As for me, I think Perl 6 will answer a lot of people's questions with better OO support, assuming it ever comes out. :-) Like I said, being good enough at any one language, assuming it's well supported and mature, if it can do everything you want and more, there's probably no compelling reason to spend too much time looking into anything else, new or not for that matter, but I guess my view is pretty clear, if it matters at all.

Saying that PHP is not easier to use on the web than Python or Perl is an indication that it is a failure as a language, as this is what it was made to do. I think its easier to use for web applications, I just wish they added a notion of "module" or "package" in php5.

If someone's looking to do OO they aren't going to use a typeless languages like Python and Ruby or any language that treats objects like a mere namespace. They will use a language like C++, C# or Java.

I was speaking of people's raving about OO in the languages being discussed. Anyway, PHP isn't any "easier" than Perl or Python for web development whatsoever. You can do the same amount of features in any of those languages (and more) in the same amount of code and simplicity. I won't get into my opinions about PHP, but as a language and the syntax, it's pretty cool--not my favorite by any stretch.

Right you said that...and I'm saying that what you are really saying is that PHP is an utter failure as a language as it was made as a better way to make web applications.

PHP started out as a means to embed Perl code in web pages. It is easier for a lot of people that don't know how to deal with simple things like permissions, printing headers, etc. so the script can serve up a page. The other, is that it's embedded into the httpd process itself. Both of these things can be remedied with mod_perl, Mason and such things--just to make an example. I don't see how it really makes anything any easier. It's not better, it's not faster, it doesn't take less code to accomplish the same thing, it's not more secure by default. I'm not sure how it's a "failure" simply because it's not "better" for web development.

n my opinion, I don't see the point in regard to learning it simply because it's supposed to be easier, since it's not. If that means it's a failure, okay then. Personally, I just think it's another one of many languages--I don't see it as being a failure because it's not actually easier to develop in (unless you only know PHP, which would stand to reason when comparing it to any language). If that is the only logical way to look at it, then I guess it's a failure then. I am quite sure many would disagree with that, myself included (I have plenty of valid reasons to not consider PHP to be as good a language as others--though there's no point in getting into those reasons or a debate about it, of course--and this was a thread about ruby anyway).

Indeed, some languages do account for more development time to accomplish the same things, but when you are comparing Perl, Python, PHP, ruby, etc., there's really no one that's better suited than the other, even if one is easier for more beginners, which I think most people agree that PHP is (to me, that's it's intended purpose and audience), but that's not to say skilled people don't use it, prefer it, or that it can't do anything anyone would want, nor to say the language or syntax itself isn't good--just to be clear--it's just not better than the others (but that's all subjective anyway. It's only how I can say I feel, because I know it's not "better"). How that equates to PHP being deemed a "failure", I'm not with you on that conclusion (but that's all only an opinion anyway).

I don't really agree that: "there's really no one that's better suited than the other". If that was the case there is little point in having 4+ languages that do the same sort of things. All of these languages with particular goals in mind. PHPs goal was a language for web developmnent...and my point there is if truly the other languages are just as easy and good to use than php failed in its goals and hence failed as a language.

You mentioned mod_perl/mason, using those certainly makes perl nicer for the web (still don't think its as nice as php though), but you can't run those on shared environments as mod_perl just gives you too much power. And this is one of the reasons php is more suited for the web. So for shared environments you have to use Perl via cgi only. So then you're forced to use a VPS or dedicated server if you want to run mod_perl/mason. At that point...I'd rather just use Java or .net. Perl has only one use to me on the web, with mod_perl you can write cheap and dirty apache modules.

Oh since this is actually a Ruby thread, I have a question about Ruby. What were the goals of Ruby? That is why was it made what does it offer that the others do not or do better than the others?

Originally posted by Froggy
I don't really agree that: "there's really no one that's better suited than the other". If that was the case there is little point in having 4+ languages that do the same sort of things.


Well, with a lot, that is the case. Some aren't as mature as the others, and some lack functions others offer that are more mature (usually), but there's more than 4 of them and they were created, because someone or some group of people thought it was clever or better. That doesn't mean it actually is. There's a lot of languages that have goals or whatever and aren't really needed when it comes down to it, and by your logic, they shouldn't exist--but they do. I don't know what to tell you, but I don't think it's healthy to assume that a language simply must be better suited for something, just because it exists either.


All of these languages with particular goals in mind. PHPs goal was a language for web developmnent...and my point there is if truly the other languages are just as easy and good to use than php failed in its goals and hence failed as a language.


Yeah, I know what you mean, and since you can do the same stuff with Perl and Python or Ruby, I guess PHP failed in your view (I mean, since it doesn't do anything better--not that I'm saying you think this, but concluding it by your logic above).


You mentioned mod_perl/mason, using those certainly makes perl nicer for the web (still don't think its as nice as php though),


That's fair, but it's only an opinion. Mine isn't anymore valid than yours, I admit. However, the fact is, a lot of languages can do what the other can, just as easily--making nothing more difficult, save perhaps a few trivial things with a specific interface or whatever, but nothing that actually has to do with the language, what it can do and how easily it can (also) do it.


but you can't run those on shared environments as mod_perl just gives you too much power.


Well, not anymore than mod_perl, mod_python, or mod_ruby (just examples).
I'm not sure what you mean by how it gives someone too much power?


And this is one of the reasons php is more suited for the web. So for shared environments you have to use Perl via cgi only.


But that's not true, so in that regard, it's no different, nor any better for web development. Say, for example then, you believe PHP should run in the CGI environment as well, for the same reasons. How is PHP better?


So then you're forced to use a VPS or dedicated server if you want to run mod_perl/mason.


Not really, but that is certainly one (more extreme) view on how it can be ran.


At that point...I'd rather just use Java or .net. Perl has only one use to me on the web, with mod_perl you can write cheap and dirty apache modules.

Well, Perl may only have one use for you, but not for me and a few million others. Regardless, I won't try and argue what's better for you, though you can write Apache modules in more languages than Perl and Perl is more efficient and better suited for many things over languages such as PHP. Yeah, I know, I just said they aren't really any better over the other, but that's not specifically true or what I meant. Perl can do things that PHP can not, PHP can not do things Perl can not. Python and Perl can pretty much evenly match. If you care about that though, use C and don't worry about the other's.

Anyway, I'm speaking of web development aspects in my posts, to be clear, where really, it isn't any easier unless you suck at one of the other languages (and that's your fault with the lack of knowledge or experience, not the language). I hear the learning curve is faster on PHP, if that's what you mean. This may be true for many people, but to have a well written, secure and efficient script, you'll have to put an equal amount of time and experience into any of them and you'd then be equally able, so thus none are more simple to use or learn.

Regarding Apache modules written in Perl--they don't *have* to be cheap & dirty, just so you know--but you're able and welcome to write cheap and dirty modules in any language you want, that is compatible. True, a lot of people believe PHP is better suited for web development, even though it's really not. I mean, there's no actual rationalization that makes that a fact, PHP is not better suited. I don't mean to say there's anything 'wrong' with using it or using it instead of Perl, I'm just saying it's a choice--it's not better.

Anyway, it's fine if we disagree, but I don't see the view you have as being accurate in my view, but why should we have to agree, I'm not bothered by them existing, and I'm really not bothered if you choose to believe something that's not true (you don't have to believe me). I can only recommend learning Perl more, if you have a desire. If not, maybe you should refrain from making conclusions based on this logic you are using, because it's simply not true. But, I don't expect you to agree or believe me, and I'm not trying to convince you--only to explain the facts. Ah, nevermind, enough about this debate, it's pointless. Forget I said anything, I won't say more.

Originally posted by Froggy
Oh since this is actually a Ruby thread, I have a question about Ruby. What were the goals of Ruby? That is why was it made what does it offer that the others do not or do better than the others?

A fair question, indeed. I'd be curious exactly how it offers something that one of the other languages mentioned (and even hotly debated) in this thread can't do, or do as easily, or if it could be done with the use of a module or extension, if so, let alone the environments many do share, or are being actively developed that they all will share (believe me, they will or they already don't).

I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make...you say one thing..then say "You are wrong". Anythow two things:

1. mod_php doesn' t have the same issues that mod_perl has, this is why hosting companies don't mind using it. And mod_perl is powerful because you can get at the guts of apache with it not to mention it takes up more system resources. By "cheap and dirty" I mean you can write apache modules very fast in Perl, it takes much more time to do it in C. By the fact that there are modules for Perl that make Perl behave like PHP seems to indicate the PHP people did something right. But now which is easier to deal with a language that does this as part of the language itself...or a language that does it because you've installed a bunch of modules to make it behave that way?

2. You can do the same sorts of stuff with all of these languages (perl, php etc) on the web. The question is...which one makes it most natural etc to do so. Personally I think PHP does...but also apparently so do most people as its much more popular than languages than Perl. You may find Perl easier to use, but I have a feeling that is because you've know Perl for a bit. For a person that doesn't know any scripting language, which one is going to be easier to pick up for the web? I suggest PHP and the fact that its become so popular seems to suggest that is correct.

I do think you can make more robost web applications in Perl though, but once you get to this point most people are just going to use Java or .net now, this is why I think Perl is in decline on the web now.

Originally posted by Froggy
I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make...you say one thing..then say "You are wrong".


Not really. Anyway...


Anythow two things:

1. mod_php doesn' t have the same issues that mod_perl has, this is why hosting companies don't mind using it. And mod_perl is powerful because you can get at the guts of apache with it not to mention it takes up more system resources. By "cheap and dirty" I mean you can write apache modules very fast in Perl, it takes much more time to do it in C. By the fact that there are modules for Perl that make Perl behave like PHP seems to indicate the PHP people did something right. But now which is easier to deal with a language that does this as part of the language itself...or a language that does it because you've installed a bunch of modules to make it behave that way?


I'm not sure why you believe it is any more resource hungry than mod_php, so maybe you just installed it wrong or the Perl scripts were inefficient themselves--this can be an issue for any script that isn't efficient--enough said. I mean, you mentioned JSP/servlets, etc., how efficient do you think those options are for a web server to offer its clients, exactly? They too, are known to be major resource hogs as well. The trick is the right setup, configuration, resource limiting and overall, the code itself, since anyone can create a problem in any language (the secret is control on a multi user system).

As for making Perl more like PHP and modules for it, there's a module for anything, to save people from having to code the functions themselves. That doesn't mean anyone's trying to make things "easier" by making a module to have the same syntax or interface or whatever, that's just one of a few thousand modules that someone can use for that purpose if they want.

Even perhaps to make PHP coders feel more at home, I don't know. What I do know, is that I don't know of one real Perl coder that has ever had a reason or desire to use any such module. No wonder you have formed such an opinion of Perl, given this is how you discern the value and how it can be used.

I've never had to install a "module" to make Perl do what I want. If there's an existing module (it's just code, you know) that does what I want and it doesn't have drawbacks, why code the same code myself and reinvent the wheel? If it's not there, I can create my own code, module, library or whatever to use or reuse and so on. This doesn't reflect poorly on the language and what it can do. It's very easy to code in Perl without relying on common or uncommon modules people have out there, just as easy as PHP, is what I'm saying. If you don't see if that way, fine, and why debate about it?


2. You can do the same sorts of stuff with all of these languages (perl, php etc) on the web. The question is...which one makes it most natural etc to do so. Personally I think PHP does...but also apparently so do most people as its much more popular than languages than Perl. You may find Perl easier to use, but I have a feeling that is because you've know Perl for a bit. For a person that doesn't know any scripting language, which one is going to be easier to pick up for the web? I suggest PHP and the fact that its become so popular seems to suggest that is correct.


Yes, PHP will probably be easier, depending on the interface (since most hosts do have it only run in CGI--I don't deny that) and users will not be aware of the issues I outlined previously regarding permissions, outputting the headers, etc. But, regardless, for anyone to code a good script that is efficient, secure, and really, for it to really be useful at all, they'll need much more than an entry level knowledge, so how quickly they can do basic things and maybe actually just enough to be dangerous when you look at it, is irrelevant. I agree with everything you said on point #2 above, by the way, I just don't think overall that this equates to it being easier. If you mean for basic stuff without anyone needing to really be able to code well, I agree. However, I'm sure you agree that to really code well, someone will have to know a good deal about it, in which case that aspect is a moot point.


I do think you can make more robost web applications in Perl though, but once you get to this point most people are just going to use Java or .net now, this is why I think Perl is in decline on the web now.

Well, Perl isn't and never has been. The issue is that before there weren't really many other alternatives for people other than Perl and Python, so it's just that there are more choices. Perl remains extremely popular and useful and will remain so. A lot of newbies get into PHP because it's very popular, but any serious programmer will likely move onto using other things as well, and much of the syntax between Perl and PHP are similar so people don't feel too alienated. Java actually has been on just as much of a "decline" as Perl in the same regards, if you want to compare things that way.

There's other choices and people are using them. It's a preference is all. More people new to the Internet and coding forms for web sites use PHP than any other language, I'm sure, but that's not a threat to the other languages. All of the really experienced programmers I know, don't like PHP (myself included). I mean, it's okay, but has too many problems and myself and others knowing other languages have absolutely no use for it. Use what's best for you, be it PHP, Perl, ruby, Java/JSP, Python, C, C++, .NET, whatever, they all work fine. Trust me, Perl is no more declining than PHP or C. It's not ever going to go away. Anyway, I'll shut up and let this post continue to be on about ruby, the rest of the stuff about Perl and PHP declining is nonsense and hype and are outlined in another thread.

If mod_perl does not cause resource problems etc why do shared hosts not offer it? The reason it causes resource problems seems pretty obvious. Also when did I say java didn't have the same problem? It does and this is why you rarely see java installed in shared hosting. You can do JSP sorta...but most just don't bother, because there are problems with it, the same sort of problems there are with mod_perl. Java is something you run on dedicated servers etc..just like mod_perl.

Do you have any stats that show java is declining on the web? I haven't seen any.

All your stuff about Perl programmers not wanting to use php blah blah, yeah thats because programming languages are a bit like religions people don't like to convert much. My point isn't that everyone should be using PHP, rather if you don't know any scripting language used on the web, PHP is the best to learn. If someone already knows Perl they are naturally going to use that for their web applications.

Originally posted by Froggy
If mod_perl does not cause resource problems etc why do shared hosts not offer it? The reason it causes resource problems seems pretty obvious. Also when did I say java didn't have the same problem? It does and this is why you rarely see java installed in shared hosting. You can do JSP sorta...but most just don't bother, because there are problems with it, the same sort of problems there are with mod_perl. Java is something you run on dedicated servers etc..just like mod_perl.

Do you have any stats that show java is declining on the web? I haven't seen any.

All your stuff about Perl programmers not wanting to use php blah blah, yeah thats because programming languages are a bit like religions people don't like to convert much. My point isn't that everyone should be using PHP, rather if you don't know any scripting language used on the web, PHP is the best to learn. If someone already knows Perl they are naturally going to use that for their web applications.

There are a lot of reasons why hosts don't offer mod_perl. There are also a lot of reasons why hosts run PHP only in the CGI environment, too. I mentioned how JSP isn't any better on resources, when you mentioned "at that point" how people should just consider JSP/servlets or NET. I thought you meant that as in it was a better option. I was only responding to the Perl/PHP aspect anyway, so that doesn't matter. My comment about Java being "seen" as declining on the web, was in response to you saying Perl was. I said, then "they both" are if you're looking at it the way you are. Plenty of people use both, and a lot.

Anyway, it's starting (I guess it has been) to sound like a Perl vs. PHP argument, and that wasn't my intention--it was only to say PHP wasn't better than Perl for web development. Of course, the language you know best is the one you will probably (or should) use. I just don't agree that PHP is best to learn for someone new to it. If someone's new, they are just as able to learn one language over another, whatever that ends up being. I do agree, as I mentioned before, that if someone doesn't really want to actually learn it and just wants to have a form up that isn't necessarily secure, PHP might indeed be better, but PHP or Perl, any good programmer will have to invest enough time where learning one or the other isn't likely going to be any quicker or easier.

Also, I don't think if a Perl programmer doesn't see the point in learning another language that doesn't offer any benefit to them (like PHP), isn't not due to their unwillingness to "convert", there's just no point. Of course, many do learn other languages (myself included), and yes, even PHP, because you inevitably have to know it well enough to be able to assist clients, check for exploitable holes in some situations, or recognize that a script is doing to determine if it's doing any hidden, malicious things and so on and you do end up being a well rounded programmer. This was sort of the point of ruby though, that was brought up, is why someone should add this language to their list they know or are learning. I said it was a good language, but to stop developing in another, mature language that has proved its worth over more than a decade and can do all the same stuff, just as easily (which brought up the PHP vs. Perl and which is "easier" or "better"), just to use it primarily? Why?

Of course, some people might love it (ruby) and do that (use it because they happen to like it), which is completely fine--I just don't think this whole "it's the next big thing and will replace X and Y languages" is an ignorant statement and baseless claim, regardless of how excited some people are about it. But for people that are good in other languages, there's really no motivating factor/reason at all, unless they have that extra time. Better to develop interesting things in a language that you already know that does everything you want, than do less interesting things, taking more time while you learn how to do it, in yet another new language you just happen to find interesting. Anyway, so yeah, ruby isn't going to take over the world and be everyone's language of choice, PHP and Perl are not threatened, nor is Java, nor is Python--and none of those are going to be going away. So, let's discuss ruby now, and not some other language war or whatever.

Could you guys cut the talk about PHP & Perl, nobody cares, this is a thread about Ruby. Start another thread to flame in. :rolleyes:

kailash, I'll be contacting you soon about the site.

Originally posted by daejuanj
Could you guys cut the talk about PHP & Perl, nobody cares, this is a thread about Ruby. Start another thread to flame in. :rolleyes:


Don't be so dramatic about it. I said several times "let's just talk about ruby, since that's what the thread was about". I hadn't realized this Froggy guy was into talking down about PHP and Perl in other threads as well and slowly got dragged into it when I saw that poster going on about how it, "like Perl, PHP, etc." were not useful for web stuff. Again, not realizing this was a repeat of his other bashing in other threads. I was already done talking about it having realized this, as noted in my last post. So, don't worry about it. As far as I'm concerned, it's done.

Yes blame me despite the fact that you are the one that brought this up, I responded to your post. I'm not "into talking down about php and perl" that is not why I post messages, most my post say nothing negative about php or perl.

But yeah I have nothing more to say about the php vs perl thing, I'd just be repeating myself. I think PHP is easier to use for web development I think there are plenty of rather objective considerations that show this (i.e. no my mere opinion), but end of story.

I've asked more than once about Ruby though, I got a cheap answer at the beginning of the thread. I would love to hear What Ruby offers as a language in general and what Ruby on rails offers for web development.

Originally posted by Tim_Greer
Don't be so dramatic about it. I said several times "let's just talk about ruby, since that's what the thread was about". I hadn't realized this Froggy guy was into talking down about PHP and Perl in other threads as well and slowly got dragged into it when I saw that poster going on about how it, "like Perl, PHP, etc." were not useful for web stuff. Again, not realizing this was a repeat of his other bashing in other threads. I was already done talking about it having realized this, as noted in my last post. So, don't worry about it. As far as I'm concerned, it's done.
I know, I saw your last reply, so it wasn't aimed at you.

I've asked more than once about Ruby though, I got a cheap answer at the beginning of the thread. I would love to hear What Ruby offers as a language in general and what Ruby on rails offers for web development.
Well, without boring you, if you are familar with Python or Smalltalk, you'll understand that everything is an object, and everything is manipulated as an object. Meaning strings, int, hashes, arrays, etc..
Blocks (http://excastle.com/blog/archive/2005/05/18/1019.aspx) are also a neat thing, and is very powerful, it basically allows you to use less code for doing certain tasks.

RubyonRails (rubyonrails.com/) is a piece of software that you install on your development environment and production environment, or the server you will deploy it on. It based around the MVC model. Basically it speeds up code generation for web apps.
Here's (http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2005/01/20/rails.html) a nice tutorial of it, that tutorial is taking place on a windows platform, but development on a Linux desktop is about the same, aside from paths.

Thanks for the info, I spent 30 mins or so reading more on Ruby and I found that a lot of the things I thought it lacked as a language it actually has. Now I"m curious of the following:

1. are any good IDEs for ruby?

2. I assume the language itself is stable, but how about mod_ruby?

3. How does it perform compared to Php, perl etc?

Originally posted by Froggy
Thanks for the info, I spent 30 mins or so reading more on Ruby and I found that a lot of the things I thought it lacked as a language it actually has. Now I"m curious of the following:

1. are any good IDEs for ruby?

2. I assume the language itself is stable, but how about mod_ruby?

3. How does it perform compared to Php, perl etc?
No problem.

1.) I only know of one, but I'm sure certain IDE's have plugins for Ruby. http://freeride.rubyforge.org

2.) It's pretty stable. When working with Apache, mod_ruby is pretty stable. But to be honest, I would suggest using Lighttpd (http://lighttpd.net), you will be wondering why you've been messing with Apache. As suggested by RubyonRails, Lighttpd is the prefered server, since FastCGI is prefered over mod_ruby, and Lighttpd actually updates their FCGI bindings.

3.) It's faster then perl when using FCGI or mod_ruby for that matter. Also it's not nearly as cryptic as Perl, and you will use a lot less code. Ruby's blocks, and strong OO make it better then PHP for certain things, for example, if you were like me, and spent most of the time, writting DAO, interface classes in PHP, you'll find that with Ruby, it's not really needed. I must add PHP was on a roll, until the people at Zend decided they wanted to mess with things. Such as shown here. (http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279833&page=1&pp=25) Which is why I haven't upraded my server to 5.1.] PHP5 is still a speed demon when it comes to most scripts, but I haven't seen it perfom in large scale applications.