Do any of you own any of those itty bitty mini DV camcorders? My father has a JVC one, he got it when they first came out (heaven only knows how much he paid for it), and I think I've seen similar ones (or maybe the he has?) for $700-ish, and there are new ones in the neighborhood of $850 on up.

Here's a listing of some of them: URL too long, click here (http://electronics.cnet.com/electronics/1,10708,0-6342639-1323-0,00.html?id=7032424&id=8577939&id=6899382&id=8577940&id=6145061&id=6145060&id=6144813&id=6145059&tag=txt)

One thing I've noticed is that I really can't tell the difference between all of these. I suppose the Canon Elura 10 (or 20MC) caught my eye, as they say they have some digital motordrive thing (which is somehow different than regular video mode). I think I know the difference (the motor drive mode seems to take 30 images/sec. so you could print/save any frame and it looks decent, in theory).

Question is, do all of them have this? Some have MPEG mode, one only for 3 minutes, etc. Is this the same as the digital motor drive mode by canon? Doesn't seem to be exactly.

As I said, the Canon Elura 10 (or 20MC) caught my eye, however they also have the Elura 2 and the Elura 2MC and I can't tell what exactly is the difference with all these models.

Sony's DCR-PC110 seems nice, has a little pop up flash (for the still pictures), so does Canon's Optura 100MC, though both seem a bit larger than the other mini ones.

Bahhhh... I just got a Hi8 camcorder pretty recently and it is really nice, but these new ones are pretty damn cool. So I'd consider it based on:

$1000-ish or less (I'm not looking for something $1,500+)
Audio and Video in *and* out (RCA too maybe?)
Computer friendly.
I don't have firewire (only USB), but I suppose that could be added to my computer.

Any thoughts? I'm just htinking about it at this point but wondered if there are any sites that had reviews (other than the one I posted) kinda like steve's digicams (though one thing I don't like about steve's dc's is that he doesn't really post anything to actually help you choose. No opinion or comparison abilities really.

The link was broke for me.

Anyway, I haven't bought one yet, but videomaker magazine always has buyers guides for that type of equipment. They have a web site that has a lot of their articles.

www.videomaker.com

Originally posted by bitserve
The link was broke for me.
Hmmmmm, yes apparently that link doesn't work still or ummm... darn.

Well, it was a comparison page of (some that I can remember):

Canon Elura 10
Canon Elura 20MC
Canon Elura 2
Canon Elura 2MC
Canon optura100mc
JVC GR-DVM80
JVC GR-DVP3U
Sony DCR-PC120BT
Sony DCR-PC9
Sony DCR-PC110

As I said, there seems to be a bunch that are similar, from the Canon site, the Elura 10 & 20MC, and optura100mc seem to be the more surrent models, but heck, the whole thing is just confusing. I'll check the link out in the meantime.

I bought a Sony PC10 about 4 years ago when MiniDV first came out, so I can't really can't help you selecting a new model. (My only comment would be that my MiniDV doesn't take stills anywhere near the quality of a "read" digital camera, but with today's models who knows?).

However, I can tell you that if you're going to get a DV camera, you *must* get a firewire card. It is just awesome for transfering video from the camera to your computer--the quality is pure digital, and the computer controls everything without you having to touch the camera (i.e., it starts and stops the camera, fast-forwards, etc.). They're cheap too, I think you can get a firewire card for like $50.

Yeah, I realized I was behind the times with my current setup (that I had *just bought*) when a classmate made a short video of our group and it looked like professional film (well sort of).

Currently I have a Hi8 camcorder (a really nice one), and transfer the video into the computer using a Dazzle Video Creator (pretty ananlog). This works fine, but I'd like to try the newer stuff.

Sadly, since I just go the other camera, there's no way I could convince the wife this would be a good idea. :( The last time I upgraded my still digital camera, I sent it to my work (heh), and then wore her down and convinced her that I could buy it. She wasn't all that thrilled that the moment I got her to say yes (after many no no no's), I whipped it out of my pocket right there!

I don't think this would work again...

Go for the big time.. Cannon XL1s only round $4,000. Or the Cannon Gl-1 fro $2,000. Then you can make Chickens Life Story the movie and sell it to some movie company and make enough money you can hire people to moderate wht for you under your name. :-)

Ohhh, and I forgot to mention that while Sony's newer ones do seem to have decent pixel still capabilities, techtv did agree with Intelligent Hosting and say that many do not capture images as a digi-cam would (though they might be more picky than I am).

Anyone have a TRV model? I've been looking to get the TRV340 as my first camcorder.

I just bought a Sony TRV340 from CircuitCity last week. It was a display model and I got it for $570. I am very happy with it so far, but I have put it to alot of use yet. The SteadyShot feature is cool and the it has good zoom (25x optical). It has a ton of features which I probably will never use. If you want to edit videos on your computer definitely get a Firewire card. The USB connection sucks and is pretty much there to transfer the pictures. It's about average in weight (I like that because it doesn't seem as fragile as some of those miniDV cams) Get a new battery if you get one. I got an accessory kit which had a imitation-leather(nice!) and battery(3 hour, compared to 1.5 that comes with it) and that was $70. This was my first camcorder and I am not regretting my decision.

Has anyone tried the MicroMV?

I got a little one coming on April 15 and was curious if anyone had tried one yet?

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

Doesn't the MicroMV use a different format tape than MiniDV? I think those MicroMVs are really small, but I would be worried about compression artifacts and a non-standard tape format (although if the unit has an analog-out feature you can always transfer to VHS, or better yet transfer to your computer then to DVD ROM).

Originally posted by Chicken
Ohhh, and I forgot to mention that while Sony's newer ones do seem to have decent pixel still capabilities, techtv did agree with Intelligent Hosting and say that many do not capture images as a digi-cam would (though they might be more picky than I am).

Chicken, one thing to look for is an audio in/mic in. You'll want it for sure in order to use an external mic. I have a brand new computer from alienware.com setup for video--$6500 pc ! It is beautiful---and bright yellow!

Many of the new camers take really nice stills. Some have seperate memory and storage for the stills.

You"ll probably want firewire as well. Its the best for transfer and capture until the new USB 2.0 becomes widely adopted. You should be able to find a nice editing app with the firewire capture card for $100.00 or less. i think the cards by themselves are less than $50.00.

One that comes to mind is Studio DV from Pinnacle Systems. Yes Videomaker Magazine is a very good source for any and all vidoe stuff, novices and pros.

Originally posted by hcarlson3
Get a new battery if you get one. I got an accessory kit which had a imitation-leather(nice!) and battery(3 hour, compared to 1.5 that comes with it) and that was $70.
1.5 Hours!! Holy moly. Sony's site says "Up to 10 Hours" but I figured I'd get 3-5 hours out of the one it came with. Now I have to go hunt down that mega battery and hopefully not sacrifice a finger or two for it. :)

Thanks for the review of the TRV340. I'm going to go play with one at Circuit City now.

Personally i prefer my Sony DCR-VX2000.

Its the sweetest monster i've ever purchased. Althou they are correct, the batteries that come with them are generally good for maybe 45mins to an hour and a half.

www.bhphotovideo.com is a good place to get all of your video and photographic needs :)

Originally posted by MikeF
Chicken, one thing to look for is an audio in/mic in. You'll want it for sure in order to use an external mic.
This is an excellent point. One of the complaints I had about my PC10 when I first got it was the fact that the motors are pretty noisy, and if you were recording in a quiet room the motor noise would come out on the tape. (I actually took it to Sony repair headquarters in Tokyo and they said it's noisy because the components are small and the little motors need to run at ultra-high speed to get the job done.) It's okay for outdoors where there's ambient sound, but if you were going to tape someone giving a speech or something an external mic is definitely the way to go.

I also agree with the battery life... The battery it came with is good for an hour at most.
Originally posted by DanielP
www.bhphotovideo.com is a good place to get all of your video and photographic needs :) I've bought most of my non-digital camera gear there and they've been excellent to deal with.

Yeah, actually in my previous life (one of them) I was a professional photographer. I miss my Hassys! :bawling: Had a bunch of them, plus lenses (not cheap those suckers ain't), plus a 1/2 dozen of those Nikon F4's, etc. I miss all of that stuff... regret I sold it all. :bawling: but I move on...

Yes a/v in is a good thing... and I have that sony camcorder, however I have a feeling the batteries I have won't fit on the new models (could be wrong, but things just seem to work that way). I've got 8hour batteries for this one... :bawling:

Bahhh... we'll see... have to go to a store and look at them I think. Then I'll just want it more though.

Originally posted by Tetraboy
Go for the big time.. Cannon XL1s only round $4,000. Or the Cannon Gl-1 fro $2,000. Then you can make Chickens Life Story the movie and sell it to some movie company and make enough money you can hire people to moderate wht for you under your name. :-)

Ah, the Canon GL1. What a fine camera. My brother's film group just added one of these to their equipment. It's beautiful.

Someone mentioned Pinnacle DV cards. Stay away!

Someone on that videographer's forum posted that Pinnacle software was much better and quicker than the VideoWave software (which happens to be the only thing I have to edit this stuff). So besides the cards, the software is good, or you don't agree?

Originally posted by Chicken
Someone on that videographer's forum posted that Pinnacle software was much better and quicker than the VideoWave software (which happens to be the only thing I have to edit this stuff). So besides the cards, the software is good, or you don't agree?

Chicken, I have had SDV for a long time. They have resolved most of there compatibility issues. The original version would only work with a Pinnacle firewire card and it had compatibility problems. The new SDV software is excellant and it will work with any firewire card. You can by it seperately or as a package with a firewire card.

Caveat...for video editing with the least amount of problems you should have:
-a fairly modern computer and config
-a seperate hard drive used for video capture only - at least 30gb, bigger the better
- lots of ram and the fastest processor you can afford

For any video editng/capture software the closer you are to their minimum specs the more likely you will have problems. Also seems like mb with the via chipset have more issues. At least last year they did.

Originally posted by Chicken
Someone on that videographer's forum posted that Pinnacle software was much better and quicker than the VideoWave software (which happens to be the only thing I have to edit this stuff). So besides the cards, the software is good, or you don't agree?

"Pinncale's software" on the DV cards is Adobe Premiere. Yes, it's way better than MGI VideoWave. In order to capture with premiere with their cards, you have to use their proprietary DV codec that is a plugin for Premiere.

If you want premeire, just buy premeire. The majority of the cost of their prosumer DV cards is the added in cost of premiere, in my opinion. Because the cards are rather crappy.

I actually took out the $700 Pinnacle DV500 and replaced it with a firewire card ($49), and an ATI All in Wonder Radeon ($175), and have been much happier. Can use a lot more software for capturing too.

I've moved away from AVI editing too, and am now doing everything straight in MPEG-2. So I don't even use premiere anymore. But my brother's film group still uses it all the time. They really like after effects and all of it's plugins. I just need editing. The most complicated effect I need is a fade.

Originally posted by bitserve


"Pinncale's software" on the DV cards is Adobe Premiere. Yes, it's way better than MGI VideoWave. In order to capture with premiere with their cards, you have to use their proprietary DV codec that is a plugin for Premiere.



Mark, SDV (Studio DV) does not use Adobe Premiere. Studio version 7 will work with any capture card. It has its own interface and functions. It is tailored to home user video editing users. Easy to use intuitive interface.

http://www.pinnaclesys.com for all info and competitive advantage comparision and product comparison aand trial download versions.

I'm not promoting it. I dont use it much any more, I now use Matrox RT 2500.

Originally posted by MikeF
Mark, SDV (Studio DV) does not use Adobe Premiere. Studio version 7 will work with any capture card. It has its own interface and functions. It is tailored to home user video editing users. Easy to use intuitive interface.

I was talking about their prosumer cards. Their tv tuner cards and their low end capture cards come with the software that you mention. The software may work with other capture cards, but good luck at getting other capture software to work with their capture card.

It is a neat program and easy to use. But it is definitely not better than MGI VideoWave. It has less to offer and is probably the one program even more buggy than VideoWave.

Originally posted by bitserve

It is a neat program and easy to use. But it is definitely not better than MGI VideoWave. It has less to offer and is probably the one program even more buggy than VideoWave.

Mark, this might be so but i just havent had any problems with SDV. i had it on an older pc win98, PIII600. 128mb ram and i even had the via chipset and it work nearly flawlessly for me.

Here's my new pc's specs(now you know why i have to get my hosting business fired up so i can pay for this pc ! :stickout
Its such a purty bright yellow. :)

Qty: 1 Roswell
~ Case: Dragon Full-Tower Case (Nova Yellow)
~ Power Supply: Enermax EG651P-VE 550 Watt Power Supply
~ Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.0GHz 400MHz FSB w/ 512KB
Cache
~ Memory: 768MB DDR SDRAM (PC-2100)
~ Keyboard: 107-Enhanced Windows Keyboard (Space Black)
~ Mouse: Microsoft IntelliMouse Explorer USB (Nova Yellow)
~ SCSI/IDE Controller: Promise Ultra100TX2 IDE Controller
~ First Hard Drive: 20GB Seagate Barracuda ATA IV 7200RPM 2MB Cache
~ Second Hard Drive: 20GB Seagate Barracuda ATA IV 7200RPM 2MB
Cache
~ Third Hard Drive: 80GB Seagate Barracuda ATA IV 7200RPM 2MB Cache
~ Monitor: NEC 18" LCD1850X MultiSync LCD - Black
~ Video Card: IN STOCK - NVIDIA® GeForce4 Ti 4400 w/128MB Dual
Monitor
~ Digital Video: Matrox RT2500 Digital Video Editing System
~ Video Cooling: KoolMaxx Video Cooling System (Standard Chrome)
~ Sound Card: SoundBlaster LIVE! 5.1
~ CD-RW: PlexWriter 40X/12X/40X CD-RW - IDE - Black - w/Pinnacle
Express
~ DVD-RW: Pioneer DVR-A03 DVD-RW
~ Speakers: Klipsch ProMedia 4.1 400-Watt THX Speakers (Nova
Yellow)
~ Modem: US Robotics V.90 56K Internal Voice/Fax/Data
~ Ethernet NIC: Intel® PRO/100 S Desktop Adapter
~ Automated Support: AlienAutopsy: Automated Technical Support
Request System
~ Warranty: Aliencare Toll-Free 2-Year 24/7 ONSITE Warranty
~ Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional

Now all I need is one of those nice Cannon Mini dv cameras. :stickout