Hi,
Some of you may have seen my post in the 'Jobs' forum, it ended up being a small dicsussion which was breifly ended by myself. But I would like to get it out in the open and get some thoughts on the matter.

Basicly I get annoyed by people older than myself commenting on my age, saying 'Oh, he is too young to ever be able to manage anything successful' for example, when infact they have no proof of anything, even if they have no idea of the person they will just put down the younger person to promote themselves/make themselves look better. When often the younger person can be more mature and experienced in the field they are talking about (In this case Web Hosting). They often are argueing about how is it possible for a person younger then the person in question to do a better job than they can. Perhaps its jealously or maybe its 'friendly' rivalry but it is indeed very annoying.

I was just wondering if a proposal for a possible rule could be submitted, so that people can't judge younger people souly on the age. It could be like rasism, or using put downs. well I guess it is discrimination. But the bottom line is that people can't use age as a factor to glorify themselves.

But at least not all people are like that, I have met some great people which the age factor does not worry them in the slightest.

Sorry if this seems out of place, or unnecessary but its late at night (here in Australia) and im a little tired.

Anyway, Thanks for your time,
Chris

P.S. Try and guess my age, honestly!

It must be frustrating, but don't let it get you down too much. It's a fact that in this industry, youth has something of a bad reputation, given that there's a seemingly constant flow of young people not making good on their hosting ambitions.

The only way you can really fight that is to make a stand and show that you are as capable as the next guy and develop a reputation for that - not for your age. Once people *know* you're good, they'll look past the numbers and respect what it is that you do.

Well that's my feeling anyways. Alan from Splashost is often brought up in these age related debates - he's not too old himself, but as you'll no doubt know, he's built up a pretty good reputation in these parts.

I guess people will always stereotype - it's the easy way out - but there will always be exceptions to any stereotype and you just have to be sure people know that you're one :)

Originally posted by HostIt
It must be frustrating, but don't let it get you down too much. It's a fact that in this industry, youth has something of a bad reputation, given that there's a seemingly constant flow of young people not making good on their hosting ambitions.My thoughts exactly, other people's mistakes have dented other peoples reputations which is a little sad. But I guess there is also a flipside, knowledge will help you later on when you make a entry into the industry. Often people say 'Gosh, I wish I knew all that when I was your age!'.

Just a thought :D

As HostIt said, it's not your age that counts, but your demeanor. Take a lot at this article:

http://www.wral.com/news/645152/index.html

Even though he is still a young guy, he does not have any trouble getting seasoned businessmen to take him seriously.

I've got a friend who's 19 who is without a doubt the best computer programmer I have ever seen. He has such a natural talent and picks up ANY language with such ease, it makes me sick. If I had the funds, I would employ him in a second :)

I sure wish I knew that much when I was 19... (not that I'm *too many* years ahead of him) heh

Thanks for that article mindboggle, a very good read

I'd guess you to be 14 or 15, based on the occasional spelling and grammatical errors you've made. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you have to work on those; language is amazingly important in determining how people view each other, especially over an anonymizing medium like the internet.

As for how to deal with being young... generally the best solution is simply not to mention it. I had head-hunters calling me when I was 14, because they assumed I was 19 or 20; I had the pleasure of refusing $5M of venture capital when I was 19. But that only happened because I didn't mention my age, and I spoke and wrote with the fluidity of someone years older than myself.

If people ask how old you are, it is almost always for one of two reasons: Either they've noticed something -- be it poor grammar, a casual attitude, whatever -- which concerns them, or they're just curious and your answer won't make any difference to them.

Incidentally... if you find the legal limitations of your age to be too restrictive, there might be a way out: In some jurisdictions there is a legal process for "emancipation", which grants a varying set of rights. In many cases it allows you to enter into binding contracts, for example, which would make it possible to get a credit card.

Share your age with us then? Are you 15?

Brian

My cuzin had a credit card when he was like 11, that he didnt know about till he was 17, when he went to go buy a car.....that 6 years of credit helped....

Personally I feel hiding age, or any other detail, that may be found out later anyway is a bad idea. I would much rather be the one to have told someone a detail than to have that someone find out the detail elsewhere which can leave them feeling as if I was trying to hide something from them.

but there will always be exceptions to any stereotype and you just have to be sure people know that you're one I agree completely with this statement. Not only are you open and honest but you'll be seen as exceptional as well! Yes, I'm only 15 and I've accomplished this, that, and the other. My future goals include these and those and I plan to achieve them by continuing with this and improving my skills with that. Many 30 something's are not able to articulate and follow through with goal setting so when a teen is seen accomplishing this it can be awe inspiring.

There can be great compliments achieved by being outside the norm and doing a wonderful job. If you feel you are able to achieve these things accordingly then brag about your age and enjoy the rewards of knowing you'll be far more experienced than your peers with each and every year ahead of you.

FWIW, I had three children by the age of 18 and it was tough but by no means did I allow myself to become "yet another statistic" that had "grandma and grandpa" caring for my children, quite the contrary. I worked, finished school, entered college, AND took care of my children. I'll probably be a grandmother by the time I'm 35 or 40 (yikes that's soon!) and you better believe I plan on being a great one regardless of the fact that I'll be younger than most! Neeener neeener.

Do your absolute best at whatever it is you plan to do. Spend more time concentrating on that and less on what others think and you'll do just fine.

Remember that even if a rule were made to stop people from posting their thoughts, it would not stop them from thinking them. If you want to battle the general conception of "children in web hosting" you need to do so by action rather than reaction.

Well said Deb.

I feel your pain man.... I'm 21, but last week i was detained by US Immigration for 2 hours and missed my flight as a result of some stupid immigration officer who thought i wasn't old enough to run corporation, what a load of BS. Next time i fly, i'll probably list my reason as personal as that way i never get harassed. But this last time, i was detained for 2 hours in immigration, after standing in the lines for so long (im sure most of you know what im talking about), and then set free stating "everything seems to be in order sir, you're free to go".

As a result, i missed my flight in, had to spend an extra $110 to be put on standby, spent a extra 6 hours in the airport, and was denied the option to file a complaint against the officer who pulled me aside for no reason. Just to note, i was carrying full documentation, and full documentation for my corporation, freaking rediculous.

Oh, and heaven forbid, naturally i was NOT offered ANY form of compensation, or even sympathy. Stay away from the airport if you have trouble relating to age, enough said.

This thread could have just as easily have been called Stereotyping the older generation or Stereotyping the middle-aged generation.

A rhetorical question to some of of the younger folk among us: what do you think of your parents' and grandparents' musical tastes? or their ability to use a computer?

Isn't that stereotyping as well? Think about it.

I got harassed a several years ago while flying to Baltimore... Good thing I took my id with me, but my problem is people think I'm younger than I actually look...

As a test for when I turned 18, I went out and bought some cigarettes for my mom, and one place wouldnt even sell them to me *with* my ID! :eek: Oh well, I dont smoke anyway.

I also run a Tuesday game on the internet and a player thought I was 30 because the details, and grammer that I use in the game. Since we also talked about some miscellaneous topics, he was suprised when I told him how old I was.

I hate stereotypes, espeically the negative ones. I have been known to turn a few heads in some places, because most people think teenagers are in general "all alike" and "know nothing about life"... I open my mouth and it shuts up the people who live by stereotyping people.

I'm still fairly young, and have alot of the same troubles people in this thread have had...

And no cperciva, before you take any guesses, I'm not 15, even though my spelling and grammer suck :D


I'm lucky, as I always had friends who would run the business, sign all the documents when I couldn't, and let me do what I do best..

I think young people are the only minority not represented in congress or by a lobbying group. Anyone care to try to change this?

Originally posted by jw
I think young people are the only minority not represented in congress

What a surprise! People who can't vote don't get represented in congress. ;)

Seriously, give youth the ability to vote -- preferably on restricted matters, or only after passing a qualifying test, since there must be some limitation -- and you'll see them, and their grievances, heard by government.

(Off the wall idea: How well would a "no taxation without representation" campaign run by minors go? Minors can get jobs and have to pay income taxes... how would the government react to an organized campaign of tax refusal by minors?)

Originally posted by cperciva
(Off the wall idea: How well would a "no taxation without representation" campaign run by minors go? Minors can get jobs and have to pay income taxes... how would the government react to an organized campaign of tax refusal by minors?)

Thank you cperciva, I had exactly the same idea for some time now. I agree that something in this area needs to be done. The problem is that many of the stereotypes are true and I do think I would have a hard time trying to find people my age willing to fight for the legal rights of young people. Much of the modern legislation is centered around young people, yet we are looked upon as not caring about what the government does and not intelligent enough to come up with decent solutions to problems. On the contrary, many young people would look past the money which is often the deciding factor for whichever way our representatives vote. I found this quote from a slashdotter recently and think it's a great one, "Love conquers all, Love for money, that is."

well ive had good and bad experiences of age discrimination. at the moment im about a month away from being 21, im in business with a 15\16 yr old and a 19 yr old. all equal partners. we have all the ups and downs of any partnership but never ever does anyone pull rank on age, i may call a timeout and explain things that the youngest doesnt know that you gain from experience just as i learn from others. i dont expect to know everything, i do know that someone with an extra 10 years experience of life then me will know more in general than me, but im wise enough to listen lots and have lots of people to listen too. i like learning and i know people that like teaching.
now my age has worked to my advantage, i dont look my age, ive always looked older due to my height and being built like an outdoor toilet ;) (i decided not to use the proper phrase). ive worked since i was 13, ive varied my vocational education so as to equipe me best for life. ive worked as a mechanic, as a scivvy on a building site, ive worked in a pizza shop. then i got to 16 and made the move outta home for many reasons mainly to preserve my sanity and that of my family. i wasnt entertained enough at school and i used to riot a fair amount cos i was bored outta my skull. then college arrived, not living at home arrived and working nights in a chemical lab arrived. i was in hogs heaven. it took them a month to promote me from scum to god , basically god left and i joking applied and aced the aptitude test and they thought we can only sack him if he fails. by luck and hard work i didnt. then in the summer when i was off college a research post came up, i went for it and got it on the strength i that i could learn as i went along and id proved i could. it was a test and i dont doubt i was expected to fail, but the budget was only 50k so it was no major loss. once again a nice sucess and a cv starting to fill out. i finished college but didnt excel in my grades, id simply taken on too much work. i got average grades but in twice the number of subjects as most people, and worked etc. oh and played collegiate level american football for our county team. then it was off to uni and a change of direction from science to computing which had always been a hobby. started uni and needed a job, got one in a fish and chip shop with a lazy boss. one christmas party i got drunk and told him i could run it better then he could. he said go for it. i did. i came i saw i conquered. diversified the business and got it out of bankrupcy and onto an even keel. it was an incredibly valuable lesson in how to run a business and how to deal with people. to this day i use the lessons i learned in dealing with creditors \ suppliers \ banks etc (altho now with my business we dont need to borrow money which throws many banks off tack).form then i worked as a decorator , in a fruit and veg shop and finaly in a puter shop. most of the jobs overlapped and its not been unknown for me to do 3 at the same time as student jobs tend to be short term and only about 18 hours a week.
now two points, i know there is an undertone of bragging here, its not intentional but i am incredibly proud of what i have achieved. ive proven again and again age doesnt matter and that when required i can turn out the goods. as can a lot of people my age. i also know this looks like a cv or advert for me but hands off im taken, i included the detail to show the older folks the amount of experience we yung uns can get, and that we still respect we dont know it all and are willing to learn.
from my own personal experiences i have no problems with working with younger people and trusting my livelihood to them on the condition that they accept whilst they may know a lot they dont know it all. there may be legal problems in some cases, and i feel sorry for kids who find this in their way, but its there to protect em as well. as for taxes, like i ever got off paying them, i always had to pay them till i went to uni and paid quite a bit, when i swapped jobs i learnt a new phrase, emergency tax bracked which felt like 150% but when your young with only a few ties it dont matter much.
for those that are young, take heart, learn from those around you, they do know things you dont, use this to your advantage, take em to the pub and leach some info off em. youd be amazed how much grief a pint and a meal can save you. you have plenty of time and only so many chances, take em and make em count.

Good advice Richy!
Thanks for the post, I enjoyed reading it.

Brian

thanks took an age to type :) srry it was so long but i felt the detail was required to prove a point. my generation has many more oppertunities and its wrong for older generations to judge younger ones by their own standards, generations differ, they grow up in different environments. ive been lucky and worked hard and had a whole load of experiences. you just gotta live and let live, be there for your mates and try and be happy and successful. oh and re credit cards i had a debit at 16 and credit at 18 now i have 4 credit cards and use em a lot for the protection they offer.

Originally posted by cperciva
(Off the wall idea: How well would a "no taxation without representation" campaign run by minors go? Minors can get jobs and have to pay income taxes... how would the government react to an organized campaign of tax refusal by minors?)

I'd say about as well as it went over in Washington D.C., where the residents have no senator or representative in congress.

Anyway, it's not just teenagers that are prejudged for their age. I don't know how many jobs I haven't gotten because the HR person was older than me and didn't want to pay me more than they made. And I'm not all that young any more.

There are too many people who don't like it that people younger than them are making more money than them.

1. Stereo typing does exist, sometimes in a more potent form that one would appreciate.

2. Stereo typing can be just.

3. Stereo typing can be unjust.


Unlike most young people, I am not bothered by stereotypes given to my colleagues or myself. The reason being is that I am an arrogant person, this is my curse, it is blessing. I laugh subtlety to myself when stereo typed, thinking that person whom is doing so cannot begin to realize what an intellectual loss they themselves suffers in comparison to myself.

I step back and look at that, and I agree with you, it is sick arrogance. By this point, you are now stereo typing me as an arrogant person, just because what I wrote above. I haven’t posted enough in these forums for you to make any other judgments, thus this will be yours.

Stereotypes are unforgivingly easy to be conjured. A few misguided words and you will be labeled, numbered, and categorized with other members of your 'kind'. Stereotypes will always exist; it's the context they exist in that changes.

For example, let us assume all youth were stereo typed as the intelligent people in society and were given complete freedom to vote. While the competently intelligent do exist among us, my observation would be that only 5% of us would make a conscious and well informed decision in a political election (or any other major decision for that matter). Obviously the other 95% are not stupid, but they just have not reached a level where they make a decision on that level.

It is for this reason that our society is ran by adults, who have a much more favorable percentage of competent decision makers, my estimate is about 50%. You might be thinking that half isn't that spectacular, but when you start to consider all the variables that numbers gets better and better. Adults are stereo typed as the intelligent people in society.

Of coarse, neither adults nor youth are the intelligent people in society. The intelligent people in society are the intelligent people in society.

Thanks