I see many hosting companies going through so called 'growing pains'. Aletia, Dixiesys, Cyberwings. What do you think? Are they bad companies? Or are they just so good that they get flooded with (too) many customers at the same time more than they can handle?

Hi,

I would say that Aletia is definately going through major growing pains. Cyberwings are just going through temporary insanity. :D

Dixiesys don't seem to be having any pains at all. :)

I think they might have to come up with a term for this, not unlike being slashdotted.. maybe WHTeed or Matt-dotted :D

Greg Moore

Originally posted by akashik
I think they might have to come up with a term for this, not unlike being slashdotted.. maybe WHTeed or Matt-dotted :D


[US Centric]How about we call it Kirk Cameron[/US Centric] :D

Originally posted by tzanakisus
I see many hosting companies going through so called 'growing pains'. Aletia, Dixiesys, Cyberwings. What do you think? Are they bad companies? Or are they just so good that they get flooded with (too) many customers at the same time more than they can handle?

It really depends on what symptoms they have.

Are they seemingly "ignoring" support or cancel requests? They're most likely buried by them. Slow response times and similar problems are eventually streamlined. Those are indeed growing pains.

However, if they're constantly unprofessional, unskilled or blatantly rude (and make no attempt to make up for it) -- they're probably on their way out.

I'd call those death pains.
:dgrin:

I registered my site on Tuesday...I am still waiting for it to be activated. I have gone onto thier IRC chat room almost every night since then, and have had nothing but a great experience! Everyone is helpful. I even asked one of the staff members when my account might be activated, they said it might not be until Monday, but could be longer. I don't think they are going through growing pains YET, until the servers start slowing down. The support is really helpful. I really cannont wait for my account to be activated. I do agree that Cyberwings is going through temorary insanity :D . I work in retail, I know how it is when you experience a greater response than you anticipated. (example: me being scheduled by myself in 2 departments on a Friday night when it's dead, and we are the busiest we've ever been with the lines for checkout long! This is the same sort of thing Cyberwings is going through. The long lines don't make my store bad, nor do the long activation times make Cybwerings look bad. My store aims for checkout time to be less than 5 minutes. BUT, customers understand! Cyberwings said 3-5 days, but these are not normal circumstances!)

I personaly think Cyberwings will be a major contender when all is said and done after their huge sale!:D

C-YA!

More like a learning curve. Some get there quicker than others whilst some never make it.
It’s a difficult business to predict the ‘right’ things, should they spend money up front without a customer base to pay for it? Or should they expand as and when the customer base creates a cash flow?

Lots of factors swing in the balance, some plan for them others crash their way through them ;)

Do you know how many orders a day that we'd need to get in order to push back our setup time 5 days? It would be somewhere between 75-100 consistently for more than a week.

Must be nice.

'Must be nice' - Na, pure heaven :)

I'd say Aletia Hosting is going through a big time heart burn. I've heard so many bad things from them, so I don't reckon things are too hot down at Aletia Hosting.

Originally posted by bitserve
Do you know how many orders a day that we'd need to get in order to push back our setup time 5 days? It would be somewhere between 75-100 consistently for more than a week.

Must be nice.


We get that many a week and our setup time is 12 hours or less. It isn't that difficult to keep up with 10 orders a day.

--Tina

We get that many a week and our setup time is 12 hours or less. It isn't that difficult to keep up with 10 orders a day.

I think he means 75-100 orders *every* day for a week straight.

The motivation to set-up an order that brings in a whopping $15 might be a little low to. Plus you gotta find room to squeeze it in on the server with the other 40 bazillion sites!

Originally posted by NexDog


Dixiesys don't seem to be having any pains at all. :)

As a user who just signed up for dixiesys in the past few days, I have to agree. I am on the $3.95/month ($39.50/year) plan and I have probably asked for support half a dozen to a dozen times in the past 3 days. I have had responses from a few minutes to a few hours. This is far better than what I expected for that price.

I've been with some hosts with a higher monthly cost with support which took a lot longer for a response.

But I guess everyone has their own expectations and opinions.

Originally posted by Computions
I think he means 75-100 orders *every* day for a week straight.

Exactly what I meant. Thanks. :)

It never stops to amaze me why so many hosts are suffering from growing pains, and I think a lot of it could be avoided if they had a proper business plan in the first place, and knew how to manage a business (I'm not saying you can't start a business without taking any college courses first, but it does help).

And when it comes down to it, it isn't really that hard to avoid growing pains, as long as you continue to set up new servers and hire qualified people and do this BEFORE it actually becomes a problem (for example don't wait for one server to become overloaded before setting up the next). And the same goes for staff: do not wait until it is taking you over 12 hours to respond to tickets before hiring new staff.

Take us for example. While we're probably not growing as fast as some other hosts, we tend to get at least 15 signups a week. I've already brought in 3 new staff in the past month to ensure that trouble tickets do not suffer, and another new server is coming online in the next 4 weeks before we end up having overloaded servers.

My theory is actually that some hosts become greedy when they see how fast they are growing, and don't want to share any of their income with employees or pay for additional servers.

Originally posted by avara
It never stops to amaze me why so many hosts are suffering from growing pains, and I think a lot of it could be avoided if they had a proper business plan in the first place, and knew how to manage a business (I'm not saying you can't start a business without taking any college courses first, but it does help).

And when it comes down to it, it isn't really that hard to avoid growing pains, as long as you continue to set up new servers and hire qualified people and do this BEFORE it actually becomes a problem (for example don't wait for one server to become overloaded before setting up the next). And the same goes for staff: do not wait until it is taking you over 12 hours to respond to tickets before hiring new staff.

Take us for example. While we're probably not growing as fast as some other hosts, we tend to get at least 15 signups a week. I've already brought in 3 new staff in the past month to ensure that trouble tickets do not suffer, and another new server is coming online in the next 4 weeks before we end up having overloaded servers.

My theory is actually that some hosts become greedy when they see how fast they are growing, and don't want to share any of their income with employees or pay for additional servers.


Very, very, very well said. We're not perfect (but I try!). However, I prefer to grow slow and steady...rather than offer too much for too little. We could offer more for the price...but I truly believe that quality would suffer. Its a hard call to make, especially when potential customers sometimes say "But 'example host' offers 10 GB bandwidth for $5 a month!".

I'm not mentioning any specific hosts...but I always get a bit worried when I hear a huge number of new customers saying how great "example host" is and how cheap they are. It is generally followed by a few months of 'everyone' saying how great they are...and how cheap they are....on so on. Within a year, you see their customers dropping off like flies and complaining here about how 'great they used to be'.

This type of thing happens not only with kids playing around at being a hosting business...but honest, big companies who have good intentions.

Before I started, I researched it and <can't stress this enough> PUT A BUSINESS PLAN ON PAPER </can't stress this enough>.

I've tweaked the business plan...but pretty much stuck by it since 1997 and it seems to be working. I'm not saying that I have THE answer to how to run a hosting business (I'm still learning too)...but I know that without my business plan, I would have setup my pricing structure a bit more generous. I still often wrestle with it...especially when I see companies like HostRocket and Aletia beating us in pricing. In the long run though, I think its best to stick with a *long-term* business plan...no matter what.

--Tina

Tina,

So what you're saying is, circle the wagons and stick to your guns.

Good advice, any way you look at it :D

Greg Moore

Originally posted by akashik
Tina,

So what you're saying is, circle the wagons and stick to your guns.

Good advice, any way you look at it :D

Greg Moore


The Turtle and the Hare analogy works too. Slow and steady...you know? :D

--Tina

Originally posted by AffordableHost
In the long run though, I think its best to stick with a *long-term* business plan...no matter what.

I think that is indeed very good advice, so long as the plan is flexible enough to allow for changes in the business climate, changes in the industry, emerging competitors, new business models etc

A business plan is definitely what needs to happen if you want to create a sustainable business -- especially in the hosting business. By analyzing all aspects of the business and developing a plan that can be flexible (ie what to do if your only getting 25% of your target customer or 500% of your target..) is essential.

Items of consideration:
1. When do you expect to hire employees? (how much training, how much pay, access, etc...)
2. When do you bring new servers online?
3. What type of support are you planning on providing?
4. How is your cost structure developed?
5. What methods are you using for advertising?
6. What type of marketing is planned?
7. What level of support are you going to offer? (troubleshoot user scripts? help install for free? provide mysql assistance?)
8. Does your pricing provide flexibility (ie promotions, sales, etc)
9. What is your target market (very important)
10. If your starting out as a reseller and planning on eventually buying your own servers -- when do you do this? Do you buy/rent/lease the servers? How many customers per server?
11. How are you going to compete (big players and small players)

Developing a business plan should take considerable time and cover as many aspects of the business as possible -- If you are uncertain, research research research! At minimum, each item put in the plan should be a well researched educated estimate. (Anyone can derive great numbers in a spreadsheet -- are they accurate?) --- Ideally, you will want to analyze a variety of different business configurations (ie lower price vs higher price, lower quality support vs higher support, etc..etc..) to determine which one is satisfactory to you (If possible, research on other companies setup similar to see how they are doing (did they go under? are they successful?)

Too many people start hosting businesses without really knowing the business side of it and as a result have these extensive growing pains and end up going under -- having a flexible but sound business plan should be the number one priority of anyone that current wants to start a hosting biz or current has a hosting biz but does not have a formal plan ..

I think the problem point is definatly when the original owners who have alot at stake in the company can't handle everything anymore and you have to bring in train and convince to work hard for you more outside people. There is definatly a lag at that point as it can definatly take a while to train new people to take on what you need them to and to get them to where you want them, and if you're not ready for that point it can hurt you when you get there. We were not as ready as we should have been and our support was lagging for a while until we got a bunch more qualified staff in here.

We're up and rolling in our own datacenter now and things are good but there were a few bumps along the way when we started growing real fast.

-Brendan

From a customer's point of view, this is why I don't sign up for the pay-for-a-year plan. The industry is in too much flux right now, and good hosts can turn into bad hosts. I don't want to be locked in.

It's a pain to have to move a site, it takes time to transfer files, re-set up e-mails and databases ... but to me, it's more annoying to have my site go down, or problems not taken care of for more than a week. Customer service is important to me.

I'll pay an extra couple of dollars a month for a) quality and b) flexibility.

Originally posted by avara
My theory is actually that some hosts become greedy when they see how fast they are growing, and don't want to share any of their income with employees or pay for additional servers.

Oh that is definitely a problem, not the servers, I do have a bad habit of waiting until the last minute, not out of greed, but out of simple "oh my god we've already filled it up?"

As for employees it's more a matter of "can I trust this guy" "will he really work or just try and ride my payroll" and "can he fix problems or is he bull****ting me on his depth of abilities (a common problem)". Not so much "I don't wanna spend the money".

And there's the greed of "every dollar I pay for employees, is a dollar I don't get to keep for myself" no doubt that is a "pull" but then the "crap I've been at this 16 hours today and I still have unanswered tickets" kicks in and those dollars take a new perspective (as in spend them already and get some help!)

Originally posted by Dixiesys
...crap I've been at this 16 hours today and I still have unanswered tickets" kicks in and those dollars take a new perspective (as in spend them already and get some help!)
-and if you don't realize it, your body will eventually give you the hint. I've been at jobs where either my health or brain or something gave me the kick in the pants I needed (it ain't fun).

If you're doing support from home, then you can reasonably send most of the day answering tickets (just be sure you don't actually sit there in that chair all day and night, like you all do). Get up, watch some tv for an hour, or better yet get out of the house. Striving for 10 minute support response times won't do you any good once you've burnt your body and mind out and have to take a month off just to get well.

If you're at the office and figure that you don't have many friends or aren't dating someone so you might as well stay there all day and most of the night, realize... that's why you don't have many friends and aren't dating someone. ;)

*this reminds me to get off the forum for a bit, heh*

Originally posted by tzanakisus
I see many hosting companies going through so called 'growing pains'. Aletia, Dixiesys, Cyberwings. What do you think? Are they bad companies? Or are they just so good that they get flooded with (too) many customers at the same time more than they can handle?

Their not bad companies every company has growing pains. I have been through growing pains with HostRocket and MCHost and at the end of the road it was worth sticking to both of them. :cool:

don't forget the famous slogan - what you pay is what you get. But then again, a small company may exceed your expectations and offer a better service at better price comparing to huge 10,000+ client companies

Originally posted by bitserve
Do you know how many orders a day that we'd need to get in order to push back our setup time 5 days? It would be somewhere between 75-100 consistently for more than a week.

Must be nice.

Agreed. And it wouldn't even be setting up the orders that would take the time. It would be getting all the servers needed to support the customers setup and tested out, answering all the questions that the new customers would have, and making sure that all the credit cards were in fact used by their owners and not someone else.

90% of the work in setting up a new customer (at least for us) isn't in setting up the customer, its in all the other details. :-)

But still, if we were getting that many customers a day, life would be GOOD. :-)

Take care,

Brian

Well, thank you all for posting on this thread, as a person just starting out a webhosting business, we are taking it very slwoly and considering everything because we want to be one of those success stories you hear about on WHT, not one of the failures we most often hear about. Evey little comment made on here is taken into consideration and we have worked out a long term Business Plan to help guide us!

So again, thank you!

Your kidding right? $3.00 a year for an account, ask for setup on Tuesday and it will be done by Saturday....(this is like Whimpey asking Poppey to loan him enough for a hamburger today and he'll pay him back on Tuesday)....my gosh folks, what in the world could you possibly be thinking when you pick a web host. Lets see if I drive the car downtown, and press the call button next to the telephone pole to page Tech Support.....I could get a hamburger at blimpies while i'm there. And then you ask why a host is going through a bit of a slowdown with support and setup....UNBELIEVABLE!!!!!