As you can see below, we offer ALLOT of EXTRA features in our services, that some of our competition charges extra for.


Standard Features on All Servers (Dedicated and Colocated):

- 1Mbps Multihomed Bandwidth (312.5GB Traffic/Month [3.2kbps = 1GB])
- Your own DEDICATED 10Mbps switched port with MRTG reports updated every 5 minutes. (NOT shared with ANY other server(s), like some others.)
- Choice of Operating System – RedHat 7.1 or 7.2, Mandrake Linux 8.2, or Windows 2000 Server. (RedHat and Mandrake come standard with the Webmin control panel.)
- 4 USABLE IP’s Included – See below for additional IP’s
- APC MasterSwitch Remote Power Control via Telnet (NO DELAYS rebooting your server, with others it may take up to 1 hour for a reboot! Can you wait that long?)
- WhatsUp! Gold 24/7 Server Monitoring with E-Mail alerts.
- Plesk, Ensim, and Cpanel are available add-ons.


Base DS 1 Dedicated Server Configuration:

AMD 1700 XP (1.47GHz / 266 FSB) CPU
512MB RAM
40GB ATA-100/133 HARD DRIVE *
1Mbps Multihomed Bandwidth

From US$110.00 per Month

* Currently only Windows 2000 supports ATA-133 mode.


Base DS LC Dedicated Server Configuration (AMD & Intel):

AMD Duron 1Ghz (200 FSB) or Intel Celeron II 1Ghz (100Mhz FSB) CPU
256MB RAM
20GB ATA-100 HARD DRIVE
1Mbps Multihomed Bandwidth

From US$99.00 per Month


:idea: Colocation: :scatter:

US$40.00 per U (1U = 1.7”)
US$50.00 One-Time Setup Fee

US$30.00 per 500kbps
US$60.00 per 1Mbps



General Information:

- Primary Server Bandwidth: Cogent
- Additional IP’s: Per RFC 2050, One-Time setup fee of $1.75 each IP (Other company’s may give you only 1 or 2 IP’s and then charge you up to $5.00 each additional IP each month)
- 24 / 7 / 365 Phone Support: Yes
- ICQ and AIM: Available, but not 24/7
- Legal Adult Content: Allowed
- Any form of IRC, Illegal Content (Child Porn, Warez, etc.), SPAM Services, etc.: NOT Allowed


Setup Information:

Servers are setup within a 24 -> 48 hour window.


Support Information:

ALL hardware and connectivity support issues are handled directly by us.

We do not offer support for Ensim or Cpanel.
All support for these will be handled directly by Ensim or Cpanel.

Due to the nature of the operating system(s) being able to be modified by the end user (e.g. recompiled kernel, custom kernel, custom .DLL’s, etc.) support is limited to basic operating system FAQ’s only.


Hardware Upgrades:

Please e-mail us at: sales@serveroutsource.net


Additional Bandwidth:

500kbps - US$30.00 per Month
1Mbps - US$60.00 per Month

any set up fees?

i really dont know how the bandwidth works... is it so i could use 1mb every second of the month? cos that really confuses me.

also, would if i chose red hat (my preffered choice) would i need to have a knowledge of linux or would i be able to do most things through webmin (which ive never used)?

and what software comes pre installed (apache, php, mysql and others)?

are prices monthly? which NOC ?

Sn2,

The details on the dedicated servers can be found at: http://serveroutsource.net/dedicated.htm

And the colocation at: http://serveroutsource.net/colocation.htm

With the bandwidth, the dedicated servers come with 1Mbps, and colocation you have your choice of 500kbps or 1Mbps.

You have access to the full 1Mbps (Mbps = Mb per second).

I hope this answers you questions.

If you have any others, you may contact us directly at sales@serveroutsource.net

Joana,

We do offer monthly pricing on the dedicated servers, which can be found at: http://serveroutsource.net/dedicated.htm

The servers are located in a carrier neutral NOC in Miami, Florida.

Sn2,

Having a good knowledge of Linux is always good.

Webmin is a basic GUI control panel.

If your knowledge of lInux is limited or new, you may want to look at an add-on control panel to assisit you.

With Linux, we do a base server install.
Unless you are having Plesk installed on the server at the same time.

how much can you get ensim and plesk for?

Details seem pretty sparse about your datacenter - apart from Cogent, who are the providers?

damn can't get with freebsd? :(

can ram/hd be upgraded/price?

voxtreme-matt,

Epik is the backup provider to Cogent. (Epik uses Level3 for a lot of their routes)

Woofcat,

We can install FreeBSD 4.5, but have limited knowledge with it.

What upgrades are you looking for?

We do build custom servers also.

I wonder which is better? Aleron + Cogent or Epik + Cogent?

When you say Epik is the backup and also that these are multihomed, how much and in which cases would data flow over Epik rather than Cogent?

Originally posted by Sn2
how much can you get ensim and plesk for?

please answer that.

Sn2,

We sell Plesk for the following, if you have on eof our servers:

30 Domains - $169.00
300 Domains - $509.00
Unlimited Domains - $679.00

Ensim, if purchased and supported directly from them.

panopticon,

All of the traffic goes thru Cogent, unless they go down for some reason, which at that point it would be going thru Epik.

Isn't MultiHomed kinda misleading then? Multihomed makes me think you have atleast 2 active providers going all the time(BGP).. Not 1 and a backup.

Tetraboy,

We are not advertising BGP4, which is load balancing across multiple carriers.

If Cogent times out, it does switch/re-route over to Epik.

This is multihomed, if it was only on Cogent, with no backup, then it would be singlehomed.

I take it the switch is instant to Epik and Epik is always active and standing by (so you would automatically switch in a couple seconds not minutes if Cogent had a glitch). If so, this is still a pretty good offer. Having an active backup makes this much better than a cogent-only provider.

On the other hand, I was of course hoping that you did mean BGP so we would get to use the Epik connection for times where Cogent is really loopy.

panopticon,

I do not know the exact setting, but over a certain mS, it does switch to Epik for when Cogent gets "loopy".

Also in the next 45 days we may be adding Verio and GLobal Crossing into the loop.
(Global Crossing actually has an office in the NOC we are in.)
When we get to this point we may start offering BGP4.

40GB ATA-100/133 HARD DRIVE *

Is this 7200 rpm drives?

1. do you offer manged servers(only as far as OS and security issues, nothing more), how much extra?

2. upgrades? 512-1gb ram, extra 40gb HD?

3. if a HD fails, how long till you replace it, I read somewhere today that another noc told someone 3 days for his current failure

4. is your url correct? it seems to be down

5. uptime gurantee?

6. how many ips come standard with the dedicated 1 plan?

7. how much do you charge per hour for software installations? do you bill in half hour or 1 hour increments?

TIA

Yes, they are 7200 RPM drives.

George,

1. ServerOutsource.NET only offers Self Managed servers.
But we do offer Sys Admin services, which are $125.00/Hour.

2. Upgrade are charged a One-Time Fee.
An Extra 40Gb HD is $80.00, and 256Mb RAM is $70.00.
The motherboard for the DS-LC and DS-1 support a max. of 1Gb RAM.

3. How does that NOC keep clients, 3 days???

Our replacement time is 1.5 - 3 hours to replace a drive, if its the only drive, then of course the time to reload the OS.

4. Yes, the URL is http://www.serveroutsuorce.net, IIS went down temporarly, due to the high traffic, and pings. :(

5. Uptime guarentee is 99.9%, and connectivity (network) downtime is credited to your account.
Some people advertise this as 100%, that I have seen, since you do not get charged, if the network is down.

6. As mentioned, it comes iwth 4 USABLE IP's.
(Watch out for this, some people advertise 8 IP's, and you only receive 5 usable out of that.)

7. Since these are self managed servers, we only take care of the connectivity and hardware.
If you want us to install software, it is at our normal Sys Admin fee of $125.00/Hour.

thanks for the quick reply,

do you offer nightly backups?

Maybe just me, but your site seems more down then up, but what do I know. :o

George,

Unfortuently with the Self Managed servers, this is not done.

If you would like we could give you a quote on a TBU, and you could schedule the backup for your server every night.

We use the Seagte Travan TR-5 1020Gb, and Onstream DI-30 15/30Gb TBU's.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
George,
...
6. As mentioned, it comes iwth 4 USABLE IP's.
(Watch out for this, some people advertise 8 IP's, and you only receive 5 usable out of that.)



No offense intended here, but do you use Vlan's? People who get 8 ip's and only 5 are usable is because they've got their own subnet, basically meaning some other newbie in the datacenter can't misconfigure their machine and accidentally take the wrong ip address (potentially downing the innocent customers services). Not saying that this is very likely in most cases, but "watch out for this", they're really doing it to protect the customer from others.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
George,

Unfortuently with the Self Managed servers, this is not done.

If you would like we could give you a quote on a TBU, and you could schedule the backup for your server every night.

We use the Seagte Travan TR-5 1020Gb, and Onstream DI-30 15/30Gb TBU's.

thanks but it would be too expensive for us to buy a reliable drive at this time, but something to keep in mind

George,

You always could run RAID 1 on the server, so if 1 HD failed for some reason, the other drive would take over.

For the Colo, would each server coloed get an APC MasterSwitch Remote Power Control via Telnet? Also how many IP's are included to start with for each server coloed? Your colo page on your site doesn't give many details...might want to fix that. Thanks.

IP to ping?

greggish,

Yes, each colo server would get its own APC port.

Initially, the IP's assigned are the same.
4 Usable IP's

Thanks, we will be updating that page soon.

It also does not mention the option of 500kbps bandwidth for $30.00/Month.

Snoozy,

You can PING to 66.232.6.5

can you explain this:



Pinging 66.232.6.5 with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 66.232.6.5:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

Yes, it seems there are some problems:

Ping 66.232.6.5 ...
1 failed
2 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 4003ms, TTL: 0
3 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3485ms, TTL: 0
4 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3496ms, TTL: 0
5 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3517ms, TTL: 0
6 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3490ms, TTL: 0
7 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3489ms, TTL: 0
8 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3504ms, TTL: 0
9 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3497ms, TTL: 0
10 Addr:66.232.5.6, RTT: 3513ms, TTL: 0


And to compare:

Ping yahoo.com (216.115.109.7) ...
1 Addr:216.115.109.7, RTT: 213ms, TTL: 239
2 Addr:216.115.109.7, RTT: 210ms, TTL: 239
3 Addr:216.115.109.7, RTT: 203ms, TTL: 239
etc.

Anyway, I'm sure this doesn't mean anything bad, just bad timing to have problems we all have from time to time.

Originally posted by George
can you explain this:



Pinging 66.232.6.5 with 32 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 66.232.6.5:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

same as what i got:(

Before we jump to any conclusions, lets giver SrvOutsource an opportunity to explain, cause we all know how things can go wrong(at the worst possible times)

just my 2 cents

i know, its probably just the server crashed or something

So 1mbps connection can have about 2.5 tera-bytes data transfer monthly? Cause if u take 1 mb x 60 sec x 60 min x 24 hr x 30 days = 2,592,000 mb bandwidth monthly.

bandwidth is measured in bits, not bytes, so take your figures and /8 it (unless on isdn and whatever other technologies use 10 bits/byte)

just over 300gb from where i see it.

basically, the accurate conversion is:

((1/8) * 60 * 60 * 24 * 30) / 1024

the /1024 is because most people measure mbits as 1,000,000 bits/second, but we all know mbits/mbytes are really 1024^2 (1,048,576 bytes/bits). 1mbps realistically is around 300-320 gigs/month, i've seen people advertise that as 360gb even (talk about ripping people off). Most people just say 300 gigs for 1mbps to make it easy :). Hope i didn't botch any of that math :D

i think its closer to 324gb but we'll just leave this bandwidth matter for someone who knows the exact figures to answer so we dont get completely confused:)

I just did a trace to 66.232.6.5:

NeoTrace Version 3.2 Trace Results
Target: 66.232.6.5
Date: Sun Mar 24 16:08:43 2002
Nodes: 17


Node Data
Node Net Reg IP Address Location Node Name
1 - - 192.168.1.100 26.619N, 80.095W awh-7j6b20qmtk5
2 1 - 208.176.124.1 Unknown
3 2 - 64.0.68.97 Unknown
4 3 1 207.88.50.185 Unknown a14-0d215.tran1.chi-il.us.xo.net
5 4 1 64.220.0.181 Unknown ge1-0.edge1.chi-il.us.xo.net
6 5 2 209.0.225.21 Chicago pos1-5.core2.chicago1.level3.net
7 6 2 209.247.10.165 Chicago so-4-1-0.mp1.chicago1.level3.net
8 6 2 209.247.9.106 Atlanta so-1-0-0.mp1.atlanta1.level3.net
9 7 2 64.159.3.70 Atlanta gigabitethernet10-2.hsipaccess1.atlanta1.level3.net
10 8 2 63.211.125.62 Unknown unknown.level3.net
11 9 3 216.22.67.153 Unknown atlcgarc1m6-so-0-1-0.ip.epik.net
12 9 3 216.22.67.253 Unknown jcvlflnj2m6-so-3-0-0.ip.epik.net
13 9 3 216.22.67.229 Unknown miamfllr1m6-so-3-0-0.ip.epik.net
14 9 3 216.22.64.62 Unknown miamfllrh07-custbr-fastduck.ip.epik.net
15 10 - 66.28.76.18 Unknown
16 11 - 66.232.5.6 Unknown
17 11 - 66.232.6.5 Fort Lauderdale


When George, Ales, and Sn2 ran there's, it shows, "Addr:66.232.5.6"
The last 2 digits got reversed.

Bandwidth to transfer calculations.

I have seen different network people use different calculations, the one we use, that seem sto be in the middle is 3.2kbps bandwidth = 1Gb traffic.

So a 1Mbps line would be around 312.5Gb per Month in traffic.

Please note that IP is also to a switch, and not to a computer.

Why not post an IP to a machine and also a test file on one of your servers so we can do some download tests?

good plan batman.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
I just did a trace to 66.232.6.5:


When George, Ales, and Sn2 ran there's, it shows, "Addr:66.232.5.6"
The last 2 digits got reversed.

glad to hear that was the problem

give us a computer's ip as trace route and ping are still choking

yes and a file to test download speeds?

George,

We have ICMP blocked on our server for security, and the other servers we do not have there permission to give out their IP's for testing.

I will see if I can find an open IP for testing.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
George,

We have ICMP blocked on our server for security, and the other servers we do not have there permission to give out their IP's for testing.

I will see if I can find an open IP for testing.

thanks, not trying to be difficult but showing off your fast connection would only benefit you

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
George,

We have ICMP blocked on our server for security, and the other servers we do not have there permission to give out their IP's for testing.

I will see if I can find an open IP for testing.

Don't take offense but why are you not running your own home page at your own facility if it's so good? You're colo'ing and don't have a machine up for your own use?

I'm working on the IP now.

But file download speeds as many now, vary of multiple factors, just not line speeds.

How many people are trying to download at once, other things the server is running, the end users connection, etc.
This is never an accurate test of performance.

PING's and traceroutes are usually the best.

rastoma,

What are you talking about?


ServerOutsource.NET IS located at the Miami IDC.

rastoma was refering to this quote

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
...and the other servers we do not have there permission to give out their IP's for testing.

Originally posted by George
rastoma was refering to this quote




Yes, by that quote I took it to mean you didn't have a server setup for your own use. If you do have your site hosted there then there must be IP's on that server for us to test with no?

And yes download tests are important. People will be using your servers to offer webpages and files.. ie downloads. So are you afraid a few people reading this thread will download the same file at once and slow everything down? If people have a moderately popular site there will be dozens of people at once or more visiting the site so if a handful of people here slow the server down then what would people use the server for?

And I'm truely asking these questions for my own benefit as a possible customer. I offer servers now and also colo, but there's not a day goes by that I don't look to see if there is a better deal here to be gotten, so I'm not being confrontational, but I'm interested and so are others.

rastoma,

ServerOutsource.NET is there an dthe firewall sowaftre we have installed, security is tight.

The reply I posted, "and the other servers we do not have there permission to give out their IP's for testing. " was to give out our clients IP's.

I am sure you can understand this.

The IP you can test to is: 66.232.6.18

And I will put up WinAmp 2.79 for people who wish to download it, after all, everyone needs WinAmp. :)

pinged and did a trace route and got good results

This thread is getting quite populair in a short time :)
Five pages in 2 days... wow ... nice job :D

SrvOutsource is offering some good deals, I'm sure he's gotten some customers b/c of this and now that he posted a pingable IP (and a file to dl soon) he will add that many more

good job SrvOutsource

George,

File is at ftp://serveroutsource.net/download

Of course its Winamp 2.79.
Since it is shareware. :)

Should be accessable at http://serveroutsource.net/download also, but my Windows XP keeps caching. :(
If someone could try this for me.

I liked Windows 2000 better, never cached like XP does.
But I'm getting OT.


The colocation page is also updated. :)

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
George,

File is at ftp://serveroutsource.net/download

Of course its Winamp 2.79.
Since it is shareware. :)

Should be accessable at http://serveroutsource.net/download also, but my Windows XP keeps caching. :(
If someone could try this for me.

I liked Windows 2000 better, never cached like XP does.
But I'm getting OT.


The colocation page is also updated. :)

I downloaded the file and downloaded it in 8 seconds, peaking at 281KB/s, keeping in mind that my supposed maximum download speed is 2mb/s and this translates to 2.248 mb/s

so the speed is definitely there

Thank You.

I peaked at that also and immediately went down 5kb/s each second until it finished the file at 178kb.

I'll probably keep bugging you after this because you're probably going to think I'm a whiner :) but a 1 1/2 meg file is not enough to see what the sustained transfer is. And seeing a large number burst at the start of the download is not really a peak.. it's the estimated calculation and is updated immediately as each byte is downloaded... so seeing the number drop fast after each byte there's no way to tell what a 5 or 10 meg file would truely download at. Or I could have a bad DLS connection. Maybe we'll see some other's experiences.

But again I'm not trying to cause problems or suggest any negative comments about this offer or 'complain'.... please don't think I am.

It's a very good price and I hope you sell a lot :)

Thats what I meant when I said that downloading a file was not an accurate speed test.

Downloading relies on the connection you are using also.
So if someone tried to download using AOL, ISDN, cable modem or DSL they will all get different results.

As we all know cable modems speed depend on how many people are using that single circuit at the same time.

That is why most people use PING and traceroute tests.
A good traceroute site is http://www.traceroute.org

Other people are welcome to download the file, and post their times.

my range was 179 to 281 for an average of 228.75 (183mb divided by 8 seconds)

I saw no significant drop off,

I know my connection isn't very fast but i will join the party to,
downloaded from northern europe with a 512/128 connection,

1930124 bytes received successfully. (58.90 KBps) (00:00:32)

thats max out for me :stickout

Good! Sounds like a good system!

The following was part of our original post, "- Any form of IRC, Illegal Content (Child Porn, Warez, etc.), SPAM Services, etc.: NOT Allowed "


Please do NOT ask if we will allow a IRC server on our network.

They are not allowed, and is a violation of our company's AUP.

We are not trying to be mean, and I am sorry if you take it that way.
But IRC servers draw to many DoS attacks.

I got a reasonable speed from one of our servers (NAC based)


0K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 2% @ 256.41 KB/s
50K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 5% @ 375.94 KB/s
100K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 7% @ 378.79 KB/s
150K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 10% @ 537.63 KB/s
200K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 13% @ 370.37 KB/s
250K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 15% @ 384.62 KB/s
300K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 18% @ 515.46 KB/s
350K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 21% @ 375.94 KB/s
400K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 23% @ 403.23 KB/s
450K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 26% @ 505.05 KB/s
500K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 29% @ 370.37 KB/s
550K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 31% @ 308.64 KB/s
600K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 34% @ 531.91 KB/s
650K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 37% @ 378.79 KB/s
700K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 39% @ 400.00 KB/s
750K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 42% @ 390.62 KB/s
800K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 45% @ 476.19 KB/s
850K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 47% @ 378.79 KB/s
900K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 50% @ 409.84 KB/s
950K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 53% @ 476.19 KB/s
1000K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 55% @ 342.47 KB/s
1050K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 58% @ 480.77 KB/s
1100K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 61% @ 403.23 KB/s
1150K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 63% @ 378.79 KB/s
1200K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 66% @ 485.44 KB/s
1250K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 68% @ 393.70 KB/s
1300K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 71% @ 373.13 KB/s
1350K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 74% @ 83.89 KB/s
1400K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 76% @ 364.96 KB/s
1450K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 79% @ 375.94 KB/s
1500K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 82% @ 375.94 KB/s
1550K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 84% @ 438.60 KB/s
1600K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 87% @ 367.65 KB/s
1650K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 90% @ 333.33 KB/s
1700K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 92% @ 357.14 KB/s
1750K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 95% @ 446.43 KB/s
1800K .......... .......... .......... .......... .......... 98% @ 431.03 KB/s
1850K .......... .......... .......... .... 100% @ 401.00 KB/s

08:25:03 (360.05 KB/s) - `winamp279_full.exe' saved [1930124]

I have some questions about the bandwidth prices:

Those prices are for average, actual bandwidth and not 95% right?

And the server would be capped at 10 MBit not 1 MBit?

At what point would I get a higher cap? If I committed to let's say 6 MBit could I get a higher cap then? That is about what I use now ~60GB/day.

hmm, just tried to download winmap ... but the link seems to be briken ...
could you fix that?
would be nice ...

Erich,

The base server package includes 1Mbps, and is throddled to this, but is burstable.
If you exceed the 1Mbps, then you are charged for the next level.

All bandwidth is actual usage.

If you expect, which it sounds you are, you would want to order more bandwidth when you place your order.

Otherwise you would be charged for the overage at the end of the month. ANd may catch you by surprise.
But this is why we offer the MRTG reporting, so you can see your bandwidth usage.

When you reached 8-9Mbps constant speed, then we would raise the port speed to 100Mbps.

BiGWill,

The link is: ftp://serveroutsource.net/download/winamp279_full.exe

Our firewall is currently blocking the .exe access to download the file.

SrvOutsource,

Could you tell us a little bit more about the bandwidth arrangement you or your data center has?

Your trace times seem to be excellent. (of course, now that I say that, boof, there's massive packet loss at miamfllrh07-custbr-fastduck.ip.epik.net causing you to be slower -- but I'm sure that's temporary, of course. first time i've seen it, anyway)

What's interesting is that you say your primary is cogent... yet most traces from most points go through level3+Epik... THEN hit only 1 ip in the Cogent owned space... 66.28.76.18, beach.ip-pop.com. Then directly onto you.

So it's a little weird. I'd expect that if you were primarily using Cogent that Cogent paths would be taken. Yet I consistently see Epik or Level 3 then Epik --> 1 cogent router --> you. So, umm...

I don't even know what to ask, exactly. :) I'm just wondering if there's something unique here that means you get to pay Cogent prices (and pass those prices onto your customers), but your routes are mostly from non-Cogent, premier providers. If so, that's pretty darn cool! Aside from the other WHTer here at the same datacenter, I've never really seen a 'primarily cogent' provider before that primarily wasn't cogent! I don't think anyone would hold it against you, certainly. hehe

jmars,

I will ask our network person about that. Its been showing Epik in the traces ever since it was added.
It may have a faster response time, is why it is taking that path.
But I will find out for you.

What would you like to know?
Its a typical CogentCo 100Mbps port that we are running on.
And there are multiple 1Gb CogentCo lines coming into the carrier hotel from what I am told, so expansion is not an issue down the road.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
What would you like to know?
Its a typical CogentCo 100Mbps port that we are running on.
And there are multiple 1Gb CogentCo lines coming into the carrier hotel from what I am told, so expansion is not an issue down the road. I'd like to know because there's actually nothing typical whatsoever about your Cogent pipe. Typical Cogent paths are typical highly latent pieces of spagehetti that run all over the continent and back again several times (okay, sometimes they're slightly better than that :)). Even when they're not Spaghetti like, there's always at least some latent points.

Not just that... Most, you know, go through multiple points of Cogent. Your routes are only going through -- 1 -- cogent hop. It's just weird. Very unique. I mean, it's awesome, frankly. Your times are great generally, since there's just 1 cogent hop. I'm partly asking to see if this situation you have is a stable one. If you can keep up a speedy connection that goes mostly through level3/epik, while yourself paying Cogent-type prices, and charging cogent-type prices to customers, then you're in a very unique position in the industry at the moment, and very lucky. That makes you the strangest (due to the unusual routes) and fastest "Cogent primarily" provider I've sure seen! :)

Is there anyone else out there with more network topology experience than me who can tracert these guys, and comments on the differences between them and a normal Cogent-only provider? Or heck, even anyone with -- any experience --, even less, who can also chime in on how different his route is from a typical cogent provider?

<We are not advertising BGP4, which is load balancing across multiple carriers.

If Cogent times out, it does switch/re-route over to Epik.

This is multihomed, if it was only on Cogent, with no backup, then it would be singlehomed.>

Multihomed usually means that you're using BGP4. Your epik line would just be considered just as it is....a BACKUP. Because no traffic is going out of the Epik line unless cogent is down. So your boxes aren't taken advantage of the Epik line 24-7, just when/if cogent goes down.

Guess it's just another marketing (bullsh*ting tactic)...

Jayjay,

You may want to check a tech. dictionary, like at: http://webopedia.lycos.com/TERM/M/multihomed.html

"MULTIHOMED - An adjective used to describe a host that is connected to two or more networks or has two or more network addresses. For example, a network server may be connected to a serial line and a LAN or to multiple LANs."


This is not load balancing, clustering, etc. with means BGP.

Which if any is curious is at:

http://webopedia.lycos.com/TERM/L/load_balancing.html

"LOAD BALANCING - Distributing processing and communications activity evenly across a computer network so that no single device is overwhelmed. Load balancing is especially important for networks where it's difficult to predict the number of requests that will be issued to a server. Busy Web sites typically employ two or more Web servers in a load balancing scheme. If one server starts to get swamped, requests are forwarded to another server with more capacity. Load balancing can also refer to the communications channels themselves."


http://webopedia.lycos.com/TERM/B/BGP.html

"BGP - Short for Border Gateway Protocol, an Internet protocol that enables groups of routers (called autonomous systems) to share routing information so that efficient, loop-free routes can be established. BGP is commonly used within and between Internet Service Providers (ISPs). The protocol is defined in RFC 1771."

So this is NOT a marketing tactic.
Is is an accurate description of the network we use.

Jmars,

The best 3rd party traceroute site I've seen is at http://www.traceroute.org

You can do traces from all over the place there, if you wnat to test the network from multiple locations, you are welcome to.

I know what it means.

Thanks for attempting to give me an attitude.

<"MULTIHOMED - An adjective used to describe a host that is connected to two or more networks or has two or more network addresses. For example, a network server may be connected to a serial line and a LAN or to multiple LANs." >

Technically your servers aren't connected to multiple "LANS" because you have to hit a switch the feed into Epik.. (I don't know how you're setup but that's how you described it)

Since you want to get into this:
con·nect Pronunciation Key (k-nkt)
v. con·nect·ed, con·nect·ing, con·nects
v. tr.
To join or fasten together.
To associate or consider as related: no reason to connect the two events. See Synonyms at join.
To join to or by means of a communications circuit: Please connect me to the number in San Diego. Her computer is connected to the Internet.
To plug in (an electrical cord or device) to an outlet.

v. intr.
To become joined or united: two streams connecting to form a river.
To be scheduled so as to provide continuing service, as between airplanes or buses.
To establish a rapport or relationship; relate: The candidate failed to connect with the voters.
Sports. To hit or play a ball successfully: The batter connected for a home run.


I mean that's just if you want to get technical.

Jayjay,

I was not trying to give you an attitude, just trying to clearify that the network IS multihomed.

It started when you posted "Guess it's just another marketing (bullsh*ting tactic)..."

Which it is NOT.


Both networks/feeds go into a master, and from there to the switchs that the servers are connected.
No "switch" needs to be thrown, hit or anything else to go between the 2 networks.

Hence they are Multihomed.

Guess we just have diffrent views on how to label things. But that's common in this world, and understandable.

Goodluck with your business..

Its the same with how some people convert 1Mbps into traffic.
Depending on who you talk to, it can be anywhere from 300-340G.


Thank you.

I'm still confused with your setup and how the routing between Cogent and Epik is managed. Do you have it setup so it is dynamically switching between the 2 if one is slow or down. How long does it take for this switching between the two take? Everytime I traceroute your site I get the exact same path and its all EPIK except for one cogent hop. Thanks for any info on this.

Originally posted by SrvOutsource
Jmars,

The best 3rd party traceroute site I've seen is at http://www.traceroute.orgYou can do traces from all over the place there, if you wnat to test the network from multiple locations, you are welcome to. Before I ever posted a single message here, I traced you up and down all over the world myself. Locally, through Neo-Trace, Visual Trace Route, and speed plots through Ping Plotter. Internationally, through tracert.com, and the live international java versions of Visual Traceroute (http://www.visualware.com/visualroute/livedemo.html). The latter is very cool, do check it out!

Tracing all over the world isn't an issue here, though. I'm an expert at that.

Once again, tracing revealed only that your Cogent "primarily" network isn't normal in any sense. You still get a single Cogent hop, and primarily Epik and/or Level3 before that hop.

To answer my question, you're still going to need to go to your provider and get an explanation for this topology. It's very good, very unique... and thus *very* interesting. You could probably pick up quite a few customers if you could find out why it's this way... and if it's a stable situation... or what.