Im not sure how many of us have our own data centers, but i would say that a large majority (maybe 95%) do not. So what makes a good host? Is it their hard work for keeping a server healthy or is it the health of the underlying network or the expertise of the company that really runs things?

How vulnerable is each hosting company, i believe it is anything but rare for a server to go down. How many stars have to aline to make a connection to a server..

The server has to be turned on and configured.
The main ISP has to have a good network connection. If they have redundancy, it has to work (which sometimes does not). The providers such as UUnet, sprint, ATT, Global Crossing (to name a few) have to be responsive, and their equipment has to work. They are at the mercy of their workers not misconfiguring something and sending hundreds of networks spiralling down. Or how about something as simple is somone cutting threw the line during construction, weather etc...

How fragile is it all? Are any of us really surprised when something does work?

What about the human reaction to a web site not working. It can be compared with the politeness of a driver stuck in a traffic jam for 2 hours. Why do they get so upset, when they themselves have a desktop computer that gets a bluescreen every time they try to save an important document...do they run and yell at microsoft, threaten to sue or even threaten a chargeback on a transaction that took place 61 days prior, or do they restart their computer, and hop onto ameritrade and by 1000 shares of microsoft...What makes a person think a host or any corporation has any better equipment than regular joe blow in terms of things "never going wrong".

What about the money that is dumped into this world wide connectivity. Has it really helped us...sure...but at what expense...We obviosly dont trust computers, so we have backups. We surely dont trust them, because just as many if not more trees are being cut down because everyone needs a paper copy. What about the men and women that are on call 24 hours a day just incase that new hard drive decides to crash. What about the 2 redundant internet connections these corporations purchase, and since it is sooo reliable, they purchase 3,4,5 more...just in case...

So why are we all really upset or surprised when something doesnt function, is it the hosts fault...sometimes yes, but not if they are legitimate, or trying really hard to accomodate everyone, only to be held down by the 5 tiers above them that actually make it happen...

So if large ISP's have multiple everything, then why doesnt everyone buy multiple hosting accounts for one site to unsure their precious data is always online....i dont know....

Is it worth it?

what makes a company good... How the company handles the bad things is what makes the company itself good or bad. The attitude and responsiveness of the company defines the majority of the companies overall rating IMHO. Im not sure how many of us have our own data centers, but i would say that a large majority (maybe 95%) do not. So what makes a good host? Is it their hard work for keeping a server healthy or is it the health of the underlying network or the expertise of the company that really runs things? All of the above plus some. I was fortunate enough to be able to announce the build out of our brand new Data Center and prior to that I was in the 95% that did not have their own building/network. In either case the company needs to ensure that their equipment, connectivity, staff, hard work, etc is all in tip-top shape. The company must also work triple hard to ensure that when any of these things is not at 100% they will be able to adjust and move forward to get everything back to 100%. So again I believe what makes them good is how well they work on ensuring the bad is dealt with accordingly. How vulnerable is each hosting company, Unfortunately I believe they are far more vulnerable than 95% of them believe they are. Any number of things can go wrong in the blink of an eye, so wrong it can put them out of business immediately. Again this is why the "good" companies are the ones that prepare for these things and try to know ahead of time how they will deal with them. How fragile is it all? Are any of us really surprised when something does work? Of course we are ;) It's like waking up every morning and being happy to know your heart is still beating and your lungs are still allowing air to go through them. This morning I woke up alive, yet somewhere in the back of my mind I realize that any number of tragedies could enter my home and take my own life or the life of a family member in an instant. This isn't something we like to dwell on of course as it's far more important to live everyday than it is to worry about the potential death. These companies are in the same boat in many respects. We continue to build, grow, and improve, but must always be aware that "something" can go wrong. Just as a healthy person needs to exercise, not smoke, and eat correctly, the good company must also continue certain vital tasks to remain healthy as well. What about the human reaction to a web site not working. It can be compared with the politeness of a driver stuck in a traffic jam for 2 hours. Why do they get so upset, when they themselves have a desktop computer that gets a bluescreen every time they try to save an important document...do they run and yell at microsoft, threaten to sue or even threaten a chargeback on a transaction that took place 61 days prior, or do they restart their computer, and hop onto ameritrade and by 1000 shares of microsoft...What makes a person think a host or any corporation has any better equipment than regular joe blow in terms of things "never going wrong". Because they can. To call up Microsoft may require hours on hold or worse yet a large charge to their credit card, but to blow up at a host only requires a few moments to toss out an enraged email :( When the competition is as thick it is, the hosts tend to walk on pins and needles trying ever so hard to please each and every client because both the clients and the hosts know that it only takes a few moments to lose the client to the competition. Now with Microsoft, it's less likely the client will just remove all of the software and OS on their system to find a different one so possibly they are able to get away with bit more than we hosts are. At the same time, don't think for a second that humans in general wont "yell at" many different companies for many different reasons. Those "Coffee Served Hot" signs at the fast food joints and "Do not use toaster in the bathtub" warnings are there for the same reason. So why are we all really upset or surprised when something doesnt function, is it the hosts fault...sometimes yes, but not if they are legitimate, or trying really hard to accomodate everyone, only to be held down by the 5 tiers above them that actually make it happen...

So if large ISP's have multiple everything, then why doesnt everyone buy multiple hosting accounts for one site to unsure their precious data is always online....i dont know.... Education and boundaries need to be set and that is the responsibility of the hosts ... Is it worth it? Only if it does not affect your health emotionally and physically and only if you can remember to walk away from time to time prior to falling into that deep depression we nerds like to call BURN OUT

Hang in there....

I have found and am beginning to believe the only ones in this industry that are going to survive are the ones that control their own connections and not use another ISP. The more people you have to rely on, the more road blocks you stumble on and the more helpless you become as you are at the mercy of other people.

How the company handles the bad things is what makes the company itself good or bad. The attitude and responsiveness of the company defines the majority of the companies overall rating IMHO.

This is very true, the day to day problems or questions a customer comes across and the overall admin and health of a server is what makes a company. What about those every loving network problems that a company has nothing to do with...The host still looks like the amatures because the host is who the people are paying...the could care less who's fault it is...which boils down to my main point is that this industry depends on other people out of the hosts control....vunerability.

This is off my topic a little bit, but what has also confused me is when a host threatens to boot people left and right...for various reasons...I dont understand this business practice...would you wan to keep customers as long as possible and get a good word for yourself...what comes to mind are those that choose to resell.

I know a lot of people mock resellers, but if things are laid out properly then they are viable, however they should be responsible enough to to take business accounts...

Originally posted by goodness0001
[B]I have found and am beginning to believe the only ones in this industry that are going to survive are the ones that control their own connections and not use another ISP. The more people you have to rely on, the more road blocks you stumble on and the more helpless you become as you are at the mercy of other people.

Even hosts that control their own data centers are at the mercy of their bandwidth providers. Their parts suppliers. Their local electric companies. They can't own the entire network from a client's house to the router at the NOC and backup generators are great but can't run the NOC forever. It isn't a perfect system and probably never will be, but technical things usually aren't.


This is very true, the day to day problems or questions a customer comes across and the overall admin and health of a server is what makes a company. What about those every loving network problems that a company has nothing to do with...The host still looks like the amatures because the host is who the people are paying...the could care less who's fault it is...which boils down to my main point is that this industry depends on other people out of the hosts control....vunerability.

Any company that deals with any type of service or good is vulnerable to something. The electric company is subject to lightning damage to their equipment during the summer down here (hi Deb!). The local grocery store is dependent on their trucks being able to get to the stores from the distribution centers. My satellite provider is dependent on the orbit of their birds not decaying and having their shiny pieces of metal turn into flaming balls of junk as they reenter the atmosphere. People understand that things happen. They will not understand if you don't make an appearance and explain what happened whether it was under your direct control or not. Remember - in the absence of fact, rumors abound.

what makes a company good..?

A blond receptionist )))

Serious post, serious post.... a blonde receptionist!?

haha, gotta love WHT :)

All great answers btw.

As a business that doesn't run their own datacenter I thought I'd weigh in as the middle ground.

What makes a good host?

Certainly the hard work. Putting in the serious hours and keeping on top of issues as they arise is pretty much the only way to stay ahead. This is a service industry after all. Once you sell a microwave oven you can pretty write off the customer as a sale and forget about them. Web hosting requires constant attention and upkeeping. The hard work is staying attuned to your customer base and noticing trends before they become issues. And when issues do appear, that they are dealt with rapidly with your customers being fully informed of what's occuring.

Regarding hardware, owning a datacenter is great, if it provides a quality environment. In our case we're more than happy to use NAC for this task instead as our research has shown them to be a class act all the way. With the upstream from us, even if we do miss something, you can be sure it'll be nailed further up. Combining that with direct root access from our end we feel in total control of anything that may occur. Personally I'd be very cautious of moving from such an environment to building our own own datacenter just for the sake of owning one if it would mean our services to the customer would be degraded because of it.

Things do happen of course and NAC isn't infalible, but compared to many other datacenters they're a step above. With solid equipment (the box akashik.net is running on shows '2:17am up 112 days, 13:34' via top right now) the combination is rock solid.

Is the system fragile? Certainly! The more I personally learn about the internet the more suprised I become that the whole thing even works at all. With hops and routing combined with dubious 'peering partnerships' it can be quite a mess - a long shot from it's original intent as a defense system way back when...

In the end there's a lot to be said for the hosting companies level of research before embarking on selling to other people. Putting all your ducks in a row is paramount to success, and *will* make your job easier.

This should be a non-negotiable point too. While I commend a lot of 'kids' getting into the game and making a go at it, in many cases your customers are relying on a professional approach and a quality product. I feed my family through this company and I know some our our customers do the same. No website, no dinner on the table - to put it bluntly.

You can do fine without owning an NOC, but it takes a lot of reading to make sure you're putting down roots in the right place.

Greg Moore

Originally posted by Kulman


A blond receptionist )))

haha! I don't agree with you on the blonde part :blush:

Originally posted by MattS


haha! I don't agree with you on the blonde part :blush:

Trust me... it has to be a blonde ))))))))))
I know ))))))))))

Q. What did the blonde’s left leg say to her right leg?
A. Nothing. They never met.

LMAO!

Blondes are okay, not the best though. :D Trust me, I know.

Q. why aren't there any young ladies on here? All these single hoster guys *hint hint* just kidding..