Rackshack Servers Not For Real [Archive]

headsurfer

03-12-2002, 10:20 PM

The new celerons have 256k cache at the 1.2 GHz level. SAME CORE as a P III. Now the only difference with a P III and a Celeron 1.2 or higher is the front side buss at 100 mhz with the P III at 133 mhz.

The Duron has proven to be a reliable processor as long as it is adequately cooled. Cooling is the issue on a Duron which is why we have added additional case fans to draw COLD data center air into the cases.

It just kills me anytime someone lays into us with no real basis in their opinion.

We now have over 4100 servers. A full 1/3 or better of them are Durons. I'll stand by the Durons any day of the week.

Is the P 4 faster, you bet! Is a P III faster and better, you bet! However, is a Duron a slow POS? Absolutely not. The Durons provide a significant performance boost over the Raqs that we have every time.

The Duron deal takes the best of the easy to use control panel plus faster/better hardware and absolutely trounces a Raq any day.

Plus, we make you pay for every IP? Since when?

Pay for support from us? Not exactly.

Please get your facts straight before you come here slamming us.

One last thing. If this combination is such a load of crap, how has one customer done over 3 terabytes of transfer each month for the last two and a helf months since we started offering this solution.

We're not perfect but we are damn good!

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

headsurfer

03-12-2002, 10:24 PM

Quote from AMD website:

"AMD Duron™ processor-based systems for desktop and notebooks offer value-minded buyers access to technology that stands out among that of other processors in its class.

At home, the AMD Duron™ processor for desktop systems provides a computing experience for users surfing the Internet, or working with personal productivity, education and entertainment applications.

At the office, the AMD Duron™ processor improves business productivity by offering a combination of performance and cost-effectiveness."

How does the above translate to:

" is only supposed to be used in Desktops and Laptops for minor use... "

Come on guys, give me a break.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

PS Let me know where to buy our configuration for $250-$300 and I'll take 10,000. That's another false piece of information.

If you are going to post about our hardware, a few real facts would be in order.

cbaker17

03-12-2002, 10:59 PM

Your making yourself look bad attacking a potential customer. She/He at no point stated that you use 300.00 servers but that she heard you did. Furthermore attacking her for doing her homework is also rediculous. Your quote from AMD says nothing about server use furthermore it is a known fact that AMD processors get much hotter then Intel P3 processors which in itself brings up whether a AMD processor is a IDEAL processor for servers. And finally i believe in previous posts either on here or in your forums that you yourself advised you were getting servers for 300.00 - 400.00, now i could be wrong on this but i clearly remember this being the case.

Now before you go nuts and start yelling at me please look at my post and see that i was defending you.

Im simply bringing to light that surferguru have no bad intentions, this is probably a large purchase for her/him, and he/she wants to do her/his research first.

headsurfer

03-12-2002, 11:09 PM

Attack surfer? Not exactly. A spirited defense is a better explanation. Bad intentions is exactly what I see, unfortunately, when the information presented is FALSE.

1. Post title "Rackshack servers not for real". Pretty clear what is meant.

2. Where in the AMD site does it state "light use". That would be nowhere.

3. Pay for every IP. Not true. In fact, false.

4. Pay for support. This is also not true. We have NEVER charged a customer for support.

If just about every point this poster had made was not blatently false, I just might have another opinion.

The Duron is a lesser processor than an XP processor or a P III processor but that does not make it crap.

I'm all for a spirited debate on the merits of a Duron versus a P III or P4 or an XP.

But, if you're going to go around throwing "facts" about Rackshack out there, just make sure they are facts.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

okihost

03-12-2002, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by headsurfer
But, if you're going to go around throwing "facts" about Rackshack out there, just make sure they are facts.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

It's ok HS.. Just another person that wants a whole data center for $99.00..

GeorgeC

03-12-2002, 11:23 PM

My main concern with going with RS is still the quality of their network. Looking at http://forum.rackshack.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2329&goto=lastpost it seems at any given time their network is down somewhere. I have a server elsewhere where I'm currently paying much more than I would at RS, but global traceroutes to it always are excellent, where as to sites on RS, especially from foreign locations, is often poor ir just not reachable.

JTY

03-13-2002, 12:30 AM

It just kills me to see what some people expect with a $99/mo server. Heck, you get 400GB transfer, plus a decently equipped machine. Sure, problems do arise, but when you have in excess of 4000 servers, problems will most certainly arise.

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 02:13 AM

We are contemplating a server with you, but... A. I do not need to be lashed out by the CEO of the company... There are ways to defend and support a product without coming across as "God Forbid You Say Anything Bad About Us"... Rackshack I know has a lot of good points, I take good with the bad and do my research... I would like to do my due-diligence prior to making any commitment... In better words, if you can not take constructive criticism and combat it in a professional manner then I do not want to work with a company like that...

Let's see, You get 1 IP and you charge $1.00 Per Ip Per Month given out in blocks of 7 with $24.00 Setup fee. From your site

Additional IP Addresses $25.00 one-time $1.00 each IP
*Justification 7 IPs Required per Arin Guidelines.

If you visit the AMD site and check Durnon, it does state light use. (This is something that worries me)

Now, the Compaq does sound like a great deal and that is what I am considering going with.

Please do not take this as slamming, I am pointing out some issues that I am worried about. I have heard that the support is not "that great", these are unmanaged systems and questions that a ***** or Dialtone may answer, may not be covered by you from what I here.

I hope this clears some items....

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 02:17 AM

Originally posted by JTY
It just kills me to see what some people expect with a $99/mo server. Heck, you get 400GB transfer, plus a decently equipped machine. Sure, problems do arise, but when you have in excess of 4000 servers, problems will most certainly arise.

That is what I mean, nothing bad, But when you grow that fast it's a proven fact that certain things will tend to slip... I think we have all seen that with hosting companies.. The first and foremost is Support... I have been with a few hosting companies that started smalland as they grew support went out the door, problems came up, then next thing you know we are left with unanswered questions and problems... These are simply things I am hearing and before moving all my accounts over I need feedback.

GeorgeC

03-13-2002, 02:37 AM

Originally posted by JTY
It just kills me to see what some people expect with a $99/mo server. Heck, you get 400GB transfer, plus a decently equipped machine. Sure, problems do arise, but when you have in excess of 4000 servers, problems will most certainly arise.

Not to be confrontational, but I hate it when people hijack a negative thread about RS using their low prices. If this thread were about "Who has the cheapest servers?", then they'd be no argument RS has one of the best offers available. But this isn't about prices, but (constructive) criticisms about their server/network itself in hopes of making their offering even more attractive. Please don't mention their low price over and over again- we get it, otherwise there wouldn't be so much buzz about RS to begin with.

klisis

03-13-2002, 02:49 AM

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 02:53 AM

Originally posted by klisis
Just one thing to note, you hear negative comments more than positive comments because satisfied customers don't really post elsewhere explaining how good their current hosts are. But unsatisfied customers post.

Point is very well taken, but I am looking for Positive feedback and I am not seeing it yet through this thread... Or should I say, something or someone other then the owner of RS.. I am looking for, Positive Support Comments, Speed, Network Uptime, Hidden Charges, Etc...

panopticon

03-13-2002, 04:04 AM

Just one thing to note, you hear negative comments more than positive comments because satisfied customers don't really post elsewhere explaining how good their current hosts are. But unsatisfied customers post.
The interesting thing is that I emailed a dozen customers of tranxactglobal.com / dv2 that I found, and even posted a thread asking in the subject for any negative feedback or problems people had regarding tranxactglobal / dv2 and only one single person came forward with anything negative to say. Tranxactglobal is much smaller than rackshack, but 1 bad comment out of 600 servers is pretty good. I'm not sure how big Rackshack is, but I've seen over a dozen different people post negative comments about them, which might just be proportional. And it also might be the 'connection to the smaller host' 'separate from the big host' thing where people rally forward to support the smaller guy they really want to succeed but people don't bother gushing forward to support headsurfer since everyone knows he's already well on his way to becoming really huge.

panopticon

03-13-2002, 04:06 AM

I have heard that the support is not "that great", these are unmanaged systems and questions that a ***** or Dialtone may answer, may not be covered by you from what I here.
Now I know I've heard there are some problems with RackShack support, but I doubt they are as bad as *****. No need to insult by association :D

porcupine

03-13-2002, 04:13 AM

... not $300 servers? Not meaning to contradict headsurfr, but thats well within the realm of possibility. ESP when he buys them in such huge quantities, but that doesen't make them bad. I make all our servers with the best parts (asus boards, kingston ram, maxtor/wd drives, 3com network cards, and xp1700+ processors) and it's < $600/mo, so i can see reasonable servers of 1/2 that calibre easily in the realm of $300/mo for quantity. But honestly, im guessing rackshack uses the setup fee and first month to pay for the servers, and licenses, then slowly profits from the remaining monthly payments, and it's very reasonable pricing. I've heard a few people say "i wouldn't want to run a commercial website off a rackshack server", but when people say that, they'er always buying the cheap ones, anyone actually subscribe to the most expensive servers? i'd be interested to hear, i bet it's a different story :).

Chicken

03-13-2002, 04:59 AM

Originally posted by surferguru12
We are contemplating a server with you, but... A. I do not need to be lashed out by the CEO of the company... In better words, if you can not take constructive criticism and combat it in a professional manner then I do not want to work with a company like that...
With all due respect, I'm not exactly sure that your thread title and comments below qualify as 'constructive criticism'

Headline: Rackshack Servers Not For Real
I can't belive a company would put out a server with a crap board and processor

If you posted this about <insert any host on the forum>, I don't think they'd be all that open to discussing your 'questions'. While you surely can have opinions on the mother board and the processor used, I hardly think the statement (headline of the thread), "Rackshack Servers Not For Real" is constructive in any way. If you were out to bash them (or any other host), then yes, it would serve that purpose.

It may seem like I'm defending RS in some of these threads, but again, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'd call it the same if the headline read:

affordablecolo Servers Not For Real
okihost Servers Not For Real
<insert name> Servers Not For Real

If you are considering an offer, it is better to ask for experiences than to start off bashing and then presume the offer is crap (due to 'crap' boards and processors). If you want objective answers about a company, then you have to objectively state the question.

binaris

03-13-2002, 06:29 AM

Why is everyone after RackShack??? In my previous experience with RS, I never had any problems whatsoever with the quality of service. And if I had a problem with my server, it was resolved within hours - even a complete restore after a *major* crash. The quality of the network is great as well... pick a router and ping it. You'll almost NEVER get a ping time over 100ms, even on slow days... (providing you *yourself* have a decent connection).

And a word about the Duron conflict... everyone should know by now, but if not, let me fill you in... AMD processors can kick major ass. Intel is only recently filling the gap left by AMD's release of the first mass-produced 1GHz processor. The AMD Athlon Palomino (a.k.a, Athlon XP) can (in most cases) outperform an Intel processor clocked up to 400-600MHz faster (even the P4).

Heat you say? I live in Houston and have seen this place... the EV1 datacenter is nothing to scoff at. For $99/month you nearly *DO* get a data center... air conditioning is no problem, ask headsurfer.

Now, RS does NOT provide managed hosting though... (like RackSpace :eek: ), so don't expect them to cater to your every whim.

For anyone who thinks they know anything, I'd recommend RS over any other company. But steer clear if you're don't know what you're talking about... (like many who scold headsurfers for "bad service" <- wtf? ha!) RS provides high- and low-traffic servers, but both are for those who know what they're doing.

*cheers headsurfer* --- much love bro ;-)

HostInspect

03-13-2002, 06:32 AM

Originally posted by binaris
Why is everyone after RackShack??? In my previous experience with RS, I never had any problems whatsoever with the quality of service. And if I had a problem with my server, it was resolved within hours - even a complete restore after a *major* crash. The quality of the network is great as well... pick a router and ping it. You'll almost NEVER get a ping time over 100ms, even on slow days... (providing you *yourself* have a decent connection).

And a word about the Duron conflict... everyone should know by now, but if not, let me fill you in... AMD processors can kick major ass. Intel is only recently filling the gap left by AMD's release of the first mass-produced 1GHz processor. The AMD Athlon Palomino (a.k.a, Athlon XP) can (in most cases) outperform an Intel processor clocked up to 400-600MHz faster (even the P4).

Heat you say? I live in Houston and have seen this place... the EV1 datacenter is nothing to scoff at. For $99/month you nearly *DO* get a data center... air conditioning is no problem, ask headsurfer.

Now, RS does NOT provide managed hosting though... (like RackSpace :eek: ), so don't expect them to cater to your every whim.

For anyone who thinks they know anything, I'd recommend RS over any other company. But steer clear if you're don't know what you're talking about... (like many who scold headsurfers for "bad service" <- wtf? ha!) RS provides high- and low-traffic servers, but both are for those who know what they're doing.

*cheers headsurfer* --- much love bro ;-)

We love you man!
Go, HeadSurfer Go!

binaris

03-13-2002, 06:36 AM

One more thing...

when you sign up, you receive one IP address.

However, you may request 7 more for FREE.

(hence the *Justification 7 IPs Required per Arin Guidelines. )

GAMPort

03-13-2002, 07:39 AM

All my sites and customers' sites run very well then considering they are on servers that aren't for real :stickout

RackMy.com

03-13-2002, 08:45 AM

I make all our servers with the best parts (asus boards, kingston ram, maxtor/wd drives, 3com network cards, and xp1700+ processors) Um, Maxtor HD, Kingston RAM, 3COM Nics... Best parts? :)

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by binaris
One more thing...

when you sign up, you receive one IP address.

However, you may request 7 more for FREE.

(hence the *Justification 7 IPs Required per Arin Guidelines. )

AFter that are you charged for additional, or are they all free ?

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by Chicken

With all due respect, I'm not exactly sure that your thread title and comments below qualify as 'constructive criticism'

Headline: Rackshack Servers Not For Real
I can't belive a company would put out a server with a crap board and processor

If you posted this about <insert any host on the forum>, I don't think they'd be all that open to discussing your 'questions'. While you surely can have opinions on the mother board and the processor used, I hardly think the statement (headline of the thread), "Rackshack Servers Not For Real" is constructive in any way. If you were out to bash them (or any other host), then yes, it would serve that purpose.

It may seem like I'm defending RS in some of these threads, but again, I'm just calling it as I see it. I'd call it the same if the headline read:

affordablecolo Servers Not For Real
okihost Servers Not For Real
<insert name> Servers Not For Real

If you are considering an offer, it is better to ask for experiences than to start off bashing and then presume the offer is crap (due to 'crap' boards and processors). If you want objective answers about a company, then you have to objectively state the question.

Thats what I meant by my comments, How Can They Be For Real, any company needs to make a profit, and I heard rumors that he is only making $8.00 or some crazy thing like that as profit for each one... Sooner or later that can catch up to you... The AMD Board is Crap, although it could have been worded differently.. For servers I think Intel is best... How many major hosting companies offer AMD... Before I entrust all my business with themI need factual comments about RS.

Chicken

03-13-2002, 11:27 AM

Was, "Rackshack Servers Not For Real" supposed to have a question mark at the end and not be a statement?

Rackshack Servers Not For Real?

-would have had an entirely different effect, though worded properly...

Are Rackshack Servers For Real?

For servers, Intel might be the best, but (and I'm not trying to bash RS here), with an offer like:

Dedicated server with 400GB of transfer for $99

-are you expecting the best? As I said, I'm not bashing them, I have no opinion either way onj the offer, but I know that personally, for $99/mo I wouldn't expect a dual 1.7 PIII - dual 36GB SCSI HD machine. I don't think headsurfer would argue that for $99 you aren't going to get the best, but you will get something decent and in line with $99 (or quite a bit above).

headsurfer

03-13-2002, 11:37 AM

Please, show me where AMD says that the Durons are for "light use". I posted the text above but just don;t see it there. Perhaps it is listed somewhere else in their site?

Just because someone prefers Intel, does not make everything else crap?

I prefer a Mercedes S55 for an auto, maybe even a Bentley, but does that make a Chevy crap? Not exactly.

I would also definitely prefer a Corvette over an Acura NSX. Does that make the NSX crap?

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer

One last thing. These forums lend themselves to negative comments. Go ahead and look at the Rackshack forums where I RARELY delete any posts unless they are just absolutely out there. In the lats year, it has probably been less than 6. Do some reading. Our customers use that forum to express their frustrations. Some problems are our fault but many are our customer's faults who confuse a dedicated server with a managed server. We have never said we provide managed services although we do offer support for many things outside of our standard support guidelines but have NEVER charged a customer for support. We get a bad rap for problems we had early on and for misplaced explanations. But there is no denying teh fact that reboots have gone from taking an hour to a few hours to taking a minute to a few minutes. Restore requests have gone from 24 to 72 hours to now almost every restore is completed in less than 2 hours. Hardware failures are repaied within a VERY short period of time after they are confirmed. We are not perfect. Plus, just by the sheer number of customers we have in comparison to every other host represented here, we will have more complaints. It is just numbers. The other thing is that many people pounce on us even though they have never done business with us EVER.

Please ..... get your facts right before you post something like "they charge for EVERY IP or they charge you for support" or they "have crap servers" or "Rackshack not for real

ho247

03-13-2002, 12:03 PM

After reading all the posts on here, I think I should post a 'good post' to support Headsurfer's company, Rackshack. I've had my own share of problems with Rackshack, but that was at the start with their IP addresses, I had to wait for them (which I hate doing), but once everything was setup, the server was secured, new patches installed... the server is stable and I've had no problems with it anymore. Their network is very good and stable, especially for the low prices that we all pay.

There're always improving their services, and most importantly they're listening to us, the customers... well Headsurfer is anyway :).

I've been waiting for a plain Red Hat Linux box for a LONG time and now they've got them... so I'm hoping to get my hands on one of them as soon as I get the time to actually work on the server (install Webmin etc).

So from me (and I'm sure with MANY of Rackshack's other customers), thumbs up to Rackshack :agree::agree:.

Alan

rey

03-13-2002, 12:34 PM

I actually have read more positive than negative about RS. And actually I would be very interested if RS offers colocation comparable to their ded server bandwidth allocation.

mpjetta

03-13-2002, 01:46 PM

Just thought I would throw in my positive comment on RS and uptime from a Duron "not real server" that I have at RS.

[admin@homer admin]$ uptime
12:37pm up 74 days, 19:36, 2 users, load average: 0.12, 0.10, 0.09

I think Chicken and HeadSurfer hit it on the mark with that fact that for $99 you wouldn't expect the top of the line hardware, but the hardware we do get for $99 seems to be working and fitting my needs just fine. ;)

porcupine

03-13-2002, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by RackMy.com
Um, Maxtor HD, Kingston RAM, 3COM Nics... Best parts? :)

Heh, im sure thats up for arguement, but those are all brand names that are running at the top. I know some people prefer crucial ram to kingston, or intel adapters to 3com, but they're of the same quality, amongst the best, and well recognized names, that was the point i was making, bad wording i suppose (i notice you didn't mention asus though hehe). Theres a few good pieces of hardware that are competing for top notch in their area, and they're all good up at the top, claiming one is the best just gets supporters of the other brand riled up. Personally i LOVE WD Caviar drives, even though i know a million people who hate them, and they're not the most expensive, they've never done me wrong.

pjs

03-13-2002, 02:20 PM

is only supposed to be used in Desktops and Laptops for minor use

Huh? minor use? what does that even mean?? will it start producing logical errors under heavy use? heh.

this thread sux. Jealousy is most unattractive.

Duron's rock! Keep up the goodwork HS.

jthost

03-13-2002, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by RackMy.com
Um, Maxtor HD, Kingston RAM, 3COM Nics... Best parts? :)
What's wrong with those parts? What does RackMy use?

Abu Mami

03-13-2002, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by pjs
this thread sux. Jealousy is most unattractive.This is by far the most intelligent post on this thread. :-))

Abu Mami

03-13-2002, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by jthost
What's wrong with those parts? What does RackMy use? Hey, everyone's got their favorites, it's all relative.

As an aside... I wouldn't touch a 3Com NIC. I had a project where I had to evaluate a number of cards on a Linux system. The best throughput by far was the Intel. 3Com choked. With Intel's new driver (which corrects some bugs inherent in the chip), the Intel NIC is a real barn burner.

porcupine

03-13-2002, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Abu Mami
Hey, everyone's got their favorites, it's all relative.

As an aside... I wouldn't touch a 3Com NIC. I had a project where I had to evaluate a number of cards on a Linux system. The best throughput by far was the Intel. 3Com choked. With Intel's new driver (which corrects some bugs inherent in the chip), the Intel NIC is a real barn burner.

Go check the results of the 3com vs intel cards on tomshardware.com (i hit the review the other day), as far as they show intel chokes on cpu usage while doing some heavy workloads. But everyone has their favorites, 3com is very well recognized, and installs without issue, which is a plus for most :).

James1

03-13-2002, 03:42 PM

While I have only been at rackshack for only three months, I must say that so far I have been nothing but pleased with the free support offered when I have had questions.

Again, while only being lightly used at the moment (around 20 low traffic websites) the duron server has not crashed/broken once.

I realise due to the short length of time that I have been there, that it isn't saying much. However so far, it has been a good experience for me.

emoore

03-13-2002, 04:14 PM

I would like to pipe in about rackshack if I could. I am not a direct competitor of RackShack, but in a way we do compete because we offer colo services.
Some may agree, and others may not. If we lose a potential customer who decides to go with Rackshack, then that is ok. The Internet is a big place, and there is plenty of business for anyone who provides good service at a reasonable price and I think this can be seen by the recent success of Rackshack and their servers.

I have been a customer of theirs since they first launched Cobalt Raqs.

Let me tell you, these guys bend over backwards to help the customer. Granted, they have problems, but like the headsurfer said, it is purely a numbers game.

Usually in these forums, you will see more bad posts than good ones. You have to remember, when all is going well, you don't need to vent as much as when you are having problems. The second you have problems, frustration quickly builds up and these type of forums are a great place to vent.

Just like any other company, Rackshack has had their problems, but I have had personal intervention from Headsurfer himself via and Bob P when I had problems in the beginning. They may not remember, but they took care of me.

From day one, I think I have had 4 or 5 network problems. Usually, these were resolved in a half hour or less. It is hard to beat service like they provide and nearly impossible to beat the prices they offer. I have asked the techs for help, and I have gotten it. If they don't know an answer, they go and find one for you.

I would recommend anyone looking to get a dedicated server to Rackshack. They are a great company, are great to work with, and have a great business model. Many posts I have seen about them in a negative way (maybe not in this thread) have come from competitors who just can't figure out how they offer the pricing that they do. HS has obviously worked hard and saved his money and spent it in the right places. He should be commended.

Are they perfect?
They are damn good. I will just leave it at that.

Thanks
Eric Moore
emoore@wholesalecolo.com

NEMON

03-13-2002, 04:22 PM

So fare, I think that dam Duran is really fast devil. If only I could have dual AMD server at RS, I would not mind biger setup fee. Also I can't tell nothing but good thing's for RS, I don't need tech support. People expect 2 much. Go to dialtone.com if you need manage server's. One working houre is $90 there, I know, I have 4 server's there. So fare I don't have problems with that couse I have my sys admin's in the firm.

I need server's and bandwidth, and I found just that at RS :) So, Headsurfer just keep up the good work. And learn to relax when you read negative post's, we don't wana that you get heart attack or something :) Don't be selfish, what would all we do if you gone.

What used would we have of you if you are dead :) None. So, relax, do your job as you did so fare, and we will keep spending money at RS.

less cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : AuthenticAMD
cpu family : 6
model : 7
model name : AMD Duron(tm) Processor
stepping : 0
cpu MHz : 995.579
cache size : 64 KB
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 1
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
bogomips : 1985.74

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 8
model name : Pentium III (Coppermine)
stepping : 10
cpu MHz : 996.583
cache size : 256 KB
fdiv_bug : no
hlt_bug : no
f00f_bug : no
coma_bug : no
fpu : yes
fpu_exception : yes
cpuid level : 2
wp : yes
flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr sse
bogomips : 1985.74

clocker1996

03-13-2002, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by surferguru12

Thats what I meant by my comments, How Can They Be For Real, any company needs to make a profit, and I heard rumors that he is only making $8.00 or some crazy thing like that as profit for each one...

This may be a little late, but how old are you? My *guess* is 12.

Its a RUMOR, this isnt high school.. Who cares, god, look at all the people that have rackshack servers, your not paying $300/month. You want QUALITY? pay more..

panopticon

03-13-2002, 05:13 PM

You want QUALITY? pay more.
Well I suppose that is the grand question - how much more and to who? There are many who charge more who probably provide much worse service than Rackshack.

shortfork

03-13-2002, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by dektong
The last time I heard, Rackshack has more than 2500 servers.Last report from them has it now at 4200 with more connectivity being added as we speak..

With that number, given that most satisfied users don't post much, versus the percentage who will have problems (either self imposed or actual hardware/software/network problems) ensures that you will hear more neg than pos..

But a quick visit to http://www.forum.rackshack.net will show this to be otherwise.. lots of happy users, including me..

Shortz..

shortfork

03-13-2002, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by easybyte
My main concern with going with RS is still the quality of their network. Looking at http://forum.rackshack.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2329&goto=lastpost it seems at any given time their network is down somewhere. I have a server elsewhere where I'm currently paying much more than I would at RS, but global traceroutes to it always are excellent, where as to sites on RS, especially from foreign locations, is often poor ir just not reachable. I'm not sure where you get your information on this. I've been with RS for about 6 months and other than a few hickups when servers were moved to the new datacenter, there have been very few times when traces were not good from everywhere.. (checked often via tracrt.com)

Very good and stable network from my experiences there as a client..

Shortz

shortfork

03-13-2002, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by surferguru12
We are contemplating a server with you, but... A. I do not need to be lashed out by the CEO of the company... There are ways to defend and support a product without coming across as "God Forbid You Say Anything Bad About UsIn HeadSurfer's defense.. His company is the price/performance leader and as such, he has some pretty nasty competitors who love to come in as "ringers" meaning under false names and then spread rumor about the company. They even do it on his own board..

The same energy you see when he goes on the defense, you will see him expend to grow his company in a very aggressive and progressive way..

You stepped on his toe and he bit you.. Your post title and the information contained in the body of the first message is very similar to the type of "ringer" posts we see all the time aimed at slamming a company that with their pricing and products is causing other hosts to lose many many customers daily..

I don't blame HS at all for his reaction.. though I can see how you might have been offended by it..

Shortz

surferguru12

03-13-2002, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by shortfork
In HeadSurfer's defense.. His company is the price/performance leader and as such, he has some pretty nasty competitors who love to come in as "ringers" meaning under false names and then spread rumor about the company. They even do it on his own board..

The same energy you see when he goes on the defense, you will see him expend to grow his company in a very aggressive and progressive way..

You stepped on his toe and he bit you.. Your post title and the information contained in the body of the first message is very similar to the type of "ringer" posts we see all the time aimed at slamming a company that with their pricing and products is causing other hosts to lose many many customers daily..

I don't blame HS at all for his reaction.. though I can see how you might have been offended by it..

Shortz

No offense was taken, simply a matter of it is apparent he CAN NOT take any critical comments... I'm going to give them a try and keep my old servers also until I feel good about it, but I do belive HS needs to understand that constructive critisizm is just that... SOme of the best companies have been built upon it...

web_res

03-13-2002, 08:56 PM

From what I've seen so far they were not critical comments but plain old bashing. You may have meant something else but...

"Rackshack Servers Not for Real"

Sounds like a statement where you are accusing them of using something less then a server. This was partially confirmed when you stated that the following.

I also heard that their systems only cost them at the most $300.00 to build... What kind of reliability can you get out of that... Any thoughts... I can't belive a company would put out a server with a crap board and processor...

You may have meant something else but to most it sounds like downright bashing.

It is important for a person to be able to give constructive critcism(s) if they expect another person to take it. Both are needed for a decent conversation.

Edit: Apparently their are no blockquotes in this :).

manmythlgnd

03-13-2002, 10:12 PM

richy

03-13-2002, 10:19 PM

sorry missed this thread for a while. what do i call intensive hammering.
ok DIVX encoding home movies to send to mates.
Seti@home
Oracle 9i
Castle Wolfy and other 3d games,
House fileserver gets a resonable amount of traffic as we tend to save music and vids to it and theres always at least on or two pcs accessing it.
they all get reasonable work, and seti and ud make sure they run full tilt the rest of the time.

im totally confident that its a capable processor. as for the sis chipset. its reliable and reasonably fast, its not the fastest and its probably not the most reliable BUT for the price its great, and i expect to have to manually reboot for upgrades etc more often then it would crash. the only problem is people dropping pliars places they shouldnt ;)

their servers are not the likes on sun fire's but then again they dont cost several mission quid. they dont even cost the same as the bottom of the range fires. but they do the job.

i think robert handling himself well, a ? at the end of the thread would have been a smart move. as for proffit its roberts perogative to keep this close to his chest. i reckon he makes a nice proffit , tot up the bandwidth they have available , about 3355 mbps between 4200 servers, and another 1000 to come in soon. now for arguments sake say 100 a month for each server. thats 420000 a month, how much is a cogent gige, say 30k max per month. they have to oc3's which must hurt monthly and loads of other expenses but i reckon they make decent money. remember they are backed by ev1 so i dont think robert needs to go cap in hand for any VC or pay high rates. not to mention the bandwidth they have left over from ev1 which i assume there is a deal on. now they arent running at 100% network capacity. theyre running at about 35% capacity using crude sums from their networks page. more rough sums say each server uses about 120 GB or about 0.28 mbps a month on average. these may be wrong and anyones welcome to post alternate figures but i reckon im not far off. their model works, if you dont like the doddery incapble durex's they grab a compaq p3. those servers are proper servers.
ther servers are good, the connectivity is great, the staff are excellent. support is limited but ive had techs go above and beyond to take the time to explain non standard stuff to me. there are improvements to make. personally id like to see bigger drives in the unmetered boxes. and ensim RAS, and backup, and also id like to hear what they have done to prevent the xmas \ new years pliars incidence from happening again.
theyre not perfect. but who is apart from me ;)

bteeter

03-13-2002, 10:35 PM

Originally posted by panopticon

Now I know I've heard there are some problems with RackShack support, but I doubt they are as bad as *****. No need to insult by association :D

For whatever its worth, we ordered a server from RackShack about a month ago. It was available *immediately* when we ordered - no 3 to 5 day setup window. It has the hardware that was promised on their site, it runs fine and is accessible.

I even took the default Ensim install and did all sorts of crazy add ons to it, to make it work for our customers. No problems there either - in fact, even though RS doesn't support our software install, they still answered my questions about the server.

Network accessibility? We have more trouble with our other server suppliers than Rackshack. Thus far our server has always been online - except for when we reboot it.

Rackshack has earned our business. We will continue to use them for our new servers and for replacing old servers. At the price point, for what they offer, they cannot be beaten.

Take care,

Brian

bteeter

03-13-2002, 10:38 PM

Originally posted by surferguru12

AFter that are you charged for additional, or are they all free ?

The first 7 IPs are free. After that, you MAY be charged for more. I'm not sure they have a policy that says you WILL be charged for more. Its all in your justification of why you need them.

Take care,

Brian

Abu Mami

03-14-2002, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by porcupine
Go check the results of the 3com vs intel cards on tomshardware.com (i hit the review the other day), as far as they show intel chokes on cpu usage while doing some heavy workloads. But everyone has their favorites, 3com is very well recognized, and installs without issue, which is a plus for most :). The link didn't work so I couldn't check out the review. If the Intel choked, it was because it was NOT using the Intel driver for Linux. This driver uploads a number of "fixes" to the firmware that allows the chip to run full bore.

I had run a number of tests on a bunch of different cards. The Intel and 3Com cards were the finalists. I pounded on them and they both choked on heavy traffic. When I tried the new driver from Intel, the Intel performance soared.

SignGuy007

03-14-2002, 03:21 AM

All good here...

been running great..
AMD /plesk

best move I made...
After I dumped my Liquidweb accounts(dedicated & pro)
(you can read more about that here aslo)

-keo

:D

shortfork

03-14-2002, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by surferguru12
No offense was taken, simply a matter of it is apparent he CAN NOT take any critical comments... I'm going to give them a try and keep my old servers also until I feel good about it, but I do belive HS needs to understand that constructive critisizm is just that... SOme of the best companies have been built upon it... If you walk up behind a horse and stick a pin in its ass, don't complain when you get kicked!

Seriously, if you are raising children, I sincerely hope you can get some counseling so you can have a better understanding of the engligh language and the defination of "constructive" ..

I agree with the poster below, this is a dead horse...

Shortz

jmars

03-14-2002, 05:54 AM

Originally posted by shortfork
If you walk up behind a horse and stick a pin in its ass, don't complain when you get kicked!Now, now, are saying that Robert closely resembles Mr. Ed? That's perhaps not the fairest assessment, unless he's been using that Brilliant White system which was once advertised so often on tv... creating the most frightening, unreal brilliantine smile ever. Have you, Robert? Be honest.

I agree with the poster below, this is a dead horse... Shortz Dead horse.

Oh my god. You agreed with me before I said it! You're so cool. :) Your WHT's Miss Cleo. Minus the fraud, of course.

freakysid

03-14-2002, 06:36 AM

This has actually been an informative thread. However, I wonder whether it has run its course (horses for courses :stickout ).

surferguru12

03-14-2002, 11:03 PM

I did end up ordering from them, I called the order in an they were VERY friendly, but that is where it ended. They completely installed Ensim wrong, the name servers were wrong, certain Modules I need were not installed and I was told that they could not install them... I am going to stick with it and see what they can do... But, I understand what everyone is saying about it's a very shaky start with them....

TradeViceroy

03-14-2002, 11:34 PM

indyjon

03-14-2002, 11:53 PM

1 -Surferguru..... what competitor are you from?

2 -The beauty of linux is that even a 486 can be made into a decent system! So a modern day "desktop" will do just fine. If ya' want server grade then rent a compaq. It's all about the cost vs. reward.

3 -I haven't always gotten along with Mr. Marsh...... and there may be times in the future when I do not again. I have a server at his place and I have others at other places. I would have everything at Rackshack if they had another physical location! It's just not smart to have all your eggs in one basket.

4 -I invite you over to the forums at RS.... read them over. You will see happy people, you will see some unhappy people, you will some whiners, you will see volunteer support. RS has a community that others salivate over.

5 -If you are so concerned about RS product/support why don't you just go and buy from one of the other sub $200/400Gb a month providers? Tranxactglobal and serverhost come to mind.

porcupine

03-14-2002, 11:53 PM

Hmm...how can a provider with 4000+ servers behind them just install it wrong?? How exactly were the name servers wrong? Do they offer module installation and support?

A lot easier then you think. If it was one tech doing 4000 servers in batch, all ensim, all identical configuration, he'd be braindead by the end of it, and then you could accomodate the "you'd have to be retarded to screw that up" theory. But think of rackshack, they've got tens if not hundreds of employee's working there, trainee's need to be trained, that might be the case here. Either way, people make mistakes, i bet they install a lot more plesk setups then they do ensim also.

smartbackups

03-14-2002, 11:55 PM

Again it is not a managed server it is a dedicated server. Meaning they install the basic software, CP if you ordered it, then it is all yours. It is your responsibility to secure it, patch it and install necessary modules. They are giving you a box and bandwidth that is it, you are on your own. If you need help, guidance, support, then go with rackspace or another managed hosting provider, however be prepared to pay realistic prices.

I am not sure how many people it is going to take telling you this, hopefully this is the last one. :)

Rik Thomas

web_res

03-15-2002, 12:02 AM

I believe ensim is the most popular (based on forum posts from RS staff and possibly from HS, blurry memory).

Also the nameservers are not necessarily wrong, just standard and not necessarily fully functional from the box. Then and again rackshack only supports the usage of their dns but does not forbid you from using your own though.

richy

03-15-2002, 06:14 AM

ensim is being forced into being the most popular as there are larger margins in it. theres plenty of demand for plesk and little supply. as i put it plesk is good, ensim is cheaper. if they got RAS then ensim would be more attractive but otherwise it still looks like a kid drew on the screen in crayon. companies should be careful about forcing products.
as regards it being setup wrong and modules not being installed and them not doing it. its an unmanaged server, which means you install the modules. theyre only obliged to install what they say on the info page they install. i can believe there were minor errors in the install because people make mistakes. i can also believe thay they would have rectified it immediately, their techs are good and honest. if they didnt then i guess its just a quirk of how they install.

coight

03-15-2002, 10:32 AM

We have been happy with rackshack until now. I personally suspected problems with my hardware when they first issued my newest box. It started playing up. We then started loading some clients onto the machine.

Load was a constant 0.00. Server crash.... no processes running just crashed. I put in a ticket for a reboot, reboot complete down agian, over and over ten times. Two days ago I forced them to look into a hardware issue. Well ding ding they looked into it and replaced it with a new server. It started doing the same thing after 30 minutes another hardware failure? sure they replace the ram. Still does it, they keep rebooting and rebooting. Even the techs were getting peeved at it. You could tell by the tickets.

Well today is the fourth day since I announced to rackshack that a problem with the hardware was the likely cause. The server has been up a total of 2 hours in the last 4 days. Our reputation is getting a beating on public forums, and our customers are cancelling. This little RS sage has cost us in total $5000USD in lost profits, and our reputability has gone down the toilet.

When will they pull their finger out? Come on headsurfer address my problem. Your techs just chat to each other on the irc channel this is a serious business. I put that forward to a tech only to receive "heh".

It is about time we were compensated for this massive lack of care on RS's behalf. While you guys are comfortable sitting their taking orders customers are waiting for their servers to be fixed loosing money. I am not satisfied with the service, further more because of your imcompentance We have lost many sales and time with your escapades.

Please contact me headsurfer regarding this issue.

coight

03-15-2002, 10:41 AM

Originally posted by headsurfer
Hardware failures are repaied within a VERY short period of time after they are confirmed.

LOL You have to be joking right? 4 days is very short? :eek:

cperciva

03-15-2002, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by Myacen
I personally suspected problems with my hardware when they first issued my newest box. It started playing up. We then started loading some clients onto the machine.

Now, I'll be the first to say that if the hardware is faulty it should be promptly replaced, but don't you think you were a bit dumb about the whole matter? You get given a new server and you suspect hardware errors... and then you start moving your customers onto the machine?

If you suffered thousands of dollars of lost profits and your reputation went "down the toilet", I'd say that most of the blame for that lies with yourself.

coight

03-15-2002, 11:02 AM

No not really, they assured me everything was right.

emoore

03-15-2002, 11:08 AM

I would recommend you contact:
Vice President of Technical Support
Robert Pennington
rnp@rackshack.net

I am sure he will help you.

bobp

03-15-2002, 12:47 PM

Please e-mail me your RackShack rs number and I will look into the problems:

rnp@rackshack.net

Patrick-EV1

03-15-2002, 12:52 PM

I'll chime in with a problem I've seen with identifying hardware issues on our end, a lot of the time when we sell a new server and it crashes for no reason, the end user puts in a 'Reboot' ticket, with no other information other than that and let it go on for several days, just asking for Reboots before suddenly getting angry and exploding with a new ticket titled "HARDWARE ISSUE! WHY WONT YOU FIX IT?", and the past tickets having no indication of anything like this as we dont know what the user is doing on the server, so we dont just assume because it's being rebooted that there's a hardware problem. What we try to ask for is more information, load averages, total site #s, etc.. before we just 'assume' there's a hardware problem, which because these are not managed servers, require some prior investigations on the end user's side. Load average at the time of crash is also a very useful piece of information. While I dont know your case and exactly what information you put in because I dont have your RS# I'll be more than happy to look into it for you if you provide it to me. You may have done everything right and us everything wrong, but I dont know that until I look at the account and I will be the first to apologize if we were in the wrong, but I know personally, once a customer has given me enough information to show me the hardware is bad, other than "Hardware is bad because it's been rebooted", I will promptly authorize a full server swap.

JKLIVIN

03-15-2002, 02:53 PM

(well, they just can't! they are competing at a very different level!)

Yes they are, they use cheap parts, compared to a most other companies charging more using better motherboards etc...

Fish_Saver

03-16-2002, 12:13 AM

Ensim Issues

- Bandwidth Manager problem makes huge logs and crash server
- Beta fix for Banadwidth allows protege to crash more problems
- Disks are ext2 and the crashes cause other problems
- FTP for users does not work on my server - 8 trouble tickets to date on this issue.
- Miva Merchant shown in user guide is not provided.
- Site administrators are very restricted in what they can actually do in thier site. (Can't delete huge log files)
- And of course everyone is named ensim.rackshack.net and to change this requires a restore if you have added a site. Then it still comes up on the default pages.
- Ensim install does not include gcc, perl mysql modules .....
- Released php-4.0.6-18 patch for php problem (thought 4.1.2)

Other;
- Network is becoming more stable. (Hey a plus)

So I have had a box since end of Decemeber and it still isn't stable enough to use. So this is what is wrong with the server before you start using it. Like I said a couple weeks ago I either have to get rid of ensim and/or the box.

jmars

03-16-2002, 02:10 AM

Originally posted by JKLIVIN
(well, they just can't! they are competing at a very different level!)

Yes they are, they use cheap parts, compared to a most other companies charging more using better motherboards etc... I personally didn't think deeply enough about just how cheap their hardware would be and how badly it would effect things, until I read recently that they *cannot* install RedHat 7.2 on their new XP machines. The installer won't even load! Supposedly because the chipset is incompatible. What that's about, I don't know.

It's not like there's a lot of chipsets out there, and most are decent, if not excellent (for a server, I'd probably pick using this order for stability: AMD, Nvidia Nforce, SIS, Via). There certainly are some damn cheap *mother boards*, though (especially on the SIS and VIA end of the spectrum, although there are some good ones here, too) that often have basic electrical problems and inadequate/unfinished BIOSes. That could be an issue. Here cheap does equal unrealiable. Too cheap, that is.

There's also some bad memory out there, too -- "Zeus" systems being a primary supplier of it. I'm sure you've all seen the kind. It's the kind that has to be 'verified' to be working for specific motherboards. lol! real quality stuff. That's like saying "This gas only works in the Ford Aspire, Le Car, and Hyundai Accent". That's insane, especially since if you look around well enough, you can find some of the highest quality memory for maybe $2 more than it's Zeus counterpart. (and, yes, I can back up all of this and all of my statements)

Ultra cheap (too cheap) computer parts are penny wise and pound foolish. "Good" class computer parts are only slightly more expensive than bottom of the barrel cheap ones. We're literally talking a price increase of $20-$100 per system -- depending on how savvy a hardware researcher you are. Slightly more expensive, better designed hardware is far cheaper to buy now, than the spending long terms bucks on labor to fix and manage ultra-cheap systems. Human resources are always the costliest resources, bar none.

Buying based on what's cheapest, not what's BEST for the lowest buck (two different things there), IS EXPENSIVE. Period.

freakysid

03-16-2002, 02:14 AM

well I just been looking over rackshacks new server options at their site, and it makes the initial premise of this thread a little obscolete because you can have compaq DL320 and a choice of plesk or ensim. Mind you - not that I know anuthing about the compaq servers - but their is an alternative to white-box.

jmars

03-16-2002, 02:22 AM

Originally posted by freakysid
well I just been looking over rackshacks new server options at their site, and it makes the initial premise of this thread a little obscolete because you can have compaq DL320 and a choice of plesk or ensim. Mind you - not that I know anuthing about the compaq servers - but their is an alternative to white-box.

True, freaky.

They're not speed demons or anything, but they should at least be stable. And that's super important.

Even a lot of employees and ex-employees from Compaq have piped up about their servers... saying that although their home and business machines are crap, their servers are designed by completely different people, have totally different parts, and are supposedly in a very high, even stratospherical realm of reliability.

For cheaper, though, there are still some good competitors who do use good parts (and will tell you honestly, up front, exactly what those parts are if you email or pm them)... and are as cheap as Rackshack white boxes, or even cheaper. Probably my favorite right now is tranxactglobal / dv2 -- they do a marvelous balancing act between quality and price, and have almost nothing but happy customers (once someone is able to get a box that is -- they're in very high demand right now!).

I've also seen some others gearing up for similar higher quality (higher quality than RS), low price (RS price or lower) offerings. I'm sure they should be able to compete pretty well, too. There's some great parts and systems (fast/reliable) out there for stellar prices, but you've got to do your homework to know what they are!

Mango

03-16-2002, 06:35 AM

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
Ensim Issues

- Bandwidth Manager problem makes huge logs and crash server
- Beta fix for Banadwidth allows protege to crash more problems
- Disks are ext2 and the crashes cause other problems
- FTP for users does not work on my server - 8 trouble tickets to date on this issue.
- Miva Merchant shown in user guide is not provided.
- Site administrators are very restricted in what they can actually do in thier site. (Can't delete huge log files)
- And of course everyone is named ensim.rackshack.net and to change this requires a restore if you have added a site. Then it still comes up on the default pages.
- Ensim install does not include gcc, perl mysql modules .....
- Released php-4.0.6-18 patch for php problem (thought 4.1.2)

Other;
- Network is becoming more stable. (Hey a plus)

So I have had a box since end of Decemeber and it still isn't stable enough to use. So this is what is wrong with the server before you start using it. Like I said a couple weeks ago I either have to get rid of ensim and/or the box.

With some Linux knowledge, you can make Ensim rock-stable in 10 minutes. After all, you get a dedicated box, and that requires you to so some things now and then...

Fish_Saver

03-16-2002, 10:24 AM

Looking at Ensim and the Python that it is created with I think it would require more than 10 minutes to remove it and make my machine rock stable. I am not even sure that all the "Bugs" have come to light.

For the $469 I paid to have the machine provisioned I expected it to run more than a day without thier tech changing the host name and it requiring a restore.

GordonH

03-16-2002, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
Ensim Issues

- Bandwidth Manager problem makes huge logs and crash server
- Beta fix for Banadwidth allows protege to crash more problems
- Disks are ext2 and the crashes cause other problems
- FTP for users does not work on my server - 8 trouble tickets to date on this issue.
- Miva Merchant shown in user guide is not provided.
- Site administrators are very restricted in what they can actually do in thier site. (Can't delete huge log files)
- And of course everyone is named ensim.rackshack.net and to change this requires a restore if you have added a site. Then it still comes up on the default pages.
- Ensim install does not include gcc, perl mysql modules .....
- Released php-4.0.6-18 patch for php problem (thought 4.1.2)

Most of this is easily fixable
You can set the crontab to delete users *.1 and *.2 error and access logs once per day.
This saves a huge amount of disk space support tickets.
The server name issue is easily fixed *provided* you do it before you fire up Ensim.

The Mysql is a real problem.
They install Mysql but with no DBI and to install it you need to reinstall gcc.
I don't understand why they do that.

Gordon

Fish_Saver

03-16-2002, 11:07 AM

I don't consider a CRON job the work around a problem a fix. Deleting all my log files on a regular basis?

Another person on RackShacks Board has a CRON job the checks to see if porteges is running and if it isn't shuts down ensim, apache, mail, .... then starts porteges, ensim, apache, mail, ....

I don't consider this a FIX.

Additionally, when I get false errors like this;

Mar 3 20:48:06 winter su: PAM [dlerror: /lib/security/pam_xauth.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory]

Resolution Description:
3/6/02 5:29:57 PM
Dear customer. This is a harmless error as it relates to authorization for the X Window system, which is not installed

This error also occurs because of the way Ensim works/installed.

GordonH

03-16-2002, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
I don't consider a CRON job the work around a problem a fix. Deleting all my log files on a regular basis?

Sorry you feel that way but deleting log files is part of normal server administration.
Otherwise your server will fill up eith all those *.1 *.2 *.234 files
You can do it manually if you like but using the cron tab makes
the whole thing a lot easier when they are spread across all those suer accounts.

I think with Rackshack its a case of cutting your cloth to fit.
We took on the Rackshack servers for a specific purpose and
we do not offer any services or adaptations outwith the Ensim server spec. It keeps thing snice and simple.
If people want features not provided then we refer them to our main brand.

From reading the Rackshack forums it seems that those who have had the least number of problems are those who have done the leasty amount of modification.

Having said all that I could do with some basic servers with no control panels, maybe they will be offering those shortly as well.

Gordon

panopticon

03-16-2002, 11:32 AM

Having said all that I could do with some basic servers with no control panels, maybe they will be offering those shortly as well.Like the XP 1700 for $119 a month or the Intel 1 Ghz for $129 per month they are currently offering without a control panel you mean?

The only thing I don't like about those are that the MB is not compatible with RH 7.2 which makes me wonder about future upgrades, and that they use s-l-o-w 5400 RPM hard drives only rather than the much faster 7200 RPM hard drives which cost only $5 more to buy)

dektong

03-16-2002, 12:18 PM

Originally posted by JKLIVIN
(well, they just can't! they are competing at a very different level!)

Yes they are, they use cheap parts, compared to a most other companies charging more using better motherboards etc...

what cheap parts? For me, any server that uses chipset other than ServerWorks chipset can be considered low/entry level server, if not cheap server. A good ServerWorks III serverboard (just the m/b) can cost as much as a whole entry level server.

You need to open your eyes! Rackshack has started to offer Compaq DL320. You bet Compaq Proliant DL320 come with high quality hardware, but they still offer it at $149/mo! Argue me about cheap hardware in this case!

The level I was talking about is most companies around here don't even own their lines. They are just bandwith reseller and don't deal directly with the bandwith providers. In short, most people here only have racks in a telco house, but rackshack own and operate its own building and bring in its own lines. Also, most companies that hang around here do not have the capital that rackshack has to do anything significant at a much reduced cost. Rackshack just currently purchased 1000 Compaq DL320 servers, can anybody here do that? They currently house 4000+ servers, has anybody around here even come close to this?

That's what I meant.

cheers,
:beer:

dektong

03-16-2002, 12:22 PM

dektong

03-16-2002, 12:25 PM

It's not like there's a lot of chipsets out there, and most are decent, if not excellent (for a server, I'd probably pick using this order for stability: AMD, Nvidia Nforce, SIS, Via).

I just knew that Nvidia (and Nforce?) makes chipset for motherboard. If not, then I ama not sure what you are comparing, SIS, VIA, AMD and Nvidia?

cheers,
:beer:

JBIZ718

03-16-2002, 12:52 PM

Dektong you are right about the compaqs they are a nice system.

Going to compaq's site the retail price for those is about 1800.

So technically based on just retail prices

RS - 149 x12 + 349 = 2137

2137 - 1800 = 337 net revenue after server costs

Now with anything in bulk costs drop down significantly. Overall i think RS is trying to offer the total solution, and with these no one can say Hey they use crappy hardware.

On the other hand there are many companies like IBM and others majors that are quite larger then anyone who visits these boards.

RS is definatly growing, good luck

I make this comment to the headsurfer - your Daretocompare icon and soon web page is quite insulting, because there are alot of great hosting companies out there that are bigger and feel better then yours. I think your goin to piss alot of people off with that, and to be honest i dont see it as a positive marketing position other then to put other companies down, which isnt really cool. To be honest you are a good company but not anywhere close to the best in other catagories. RACKSPACE to name 1 compare is probably #1 in what they do, and are you better then them? I ll let you answer that yourself.

Joe

dektong

03-16-2002, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by JBIZ718
So technically based on just retail prices

RS - 149 x12 + 349 = 2137

2137 - 1800 = 337 net revenue after server costs

Revenue? What about bandwith cost?

On the other hand there are many companies like IBM and others majors that are quite larger then anyone who visits these boards.

Agree ... that's why if you read my words closely, I was comparing rackshack with other companies that visit/hang around in this forum.

To be honest you are a good company but not anywhere close to the best in other catagories. RACKSPACE to name 1 compare is probably #1 in what they do, and are you better then them? I ll let you answer that yourself.

well ... and rackspace charges much more than rackshack. For the price they are offering, I think they are justified to say they dare to compare anybody doing the same thing ... Nowhere they mean they have the best network/uptime/etc ...

cheers,
:beer:

JBIZ718

03-16-2002, 04:14 PM

Daretocompare is a generalized statement

A challenge to our competitors

Rackspace is a competitor, just as every hosting company out there is. Rackspace charges more because in my eyes they are a much better company. Top notch support, service, and network.

There are companies who are at these forums that own and operate there own datacenter and I did read it closely. You look at some that are just as large if not larger.

Bandwidth is so cheap for this compare there costs are almost nothin on a monthly basis.

Joe

panopticon

03-16-2002, 05:50 PM

I just wish they would have gotten some quality Dell servers instead of the Compaq's.

headsurfer

03-16-2002, 06:54 PM

For clarification, we'll be launching the daretocompare.net site later this month or early next with detailed comparisons of comprably sized dedicated hosting companies such as Dialtone, Rackspace, Verio. (snip)

Each of the above companies is obviously doing something right. What that is by each company is quite different. But, each has grown to large numbers for some reason.

We have a PUBLIC forum where our customers can come to talk and complain as needed.

My point is simply an economic comparison. If you are a professional and can manage your own server, why pay these guys for services you do not need?

On the other hand, if you need constant hand holding and are still learning the technical part of the hosting business, one of the other guys might be better for you, just expect to pay for the extra help.

JBIZ- I have grown used to being a target of competitors in the Internet business. In each instance, I was last-in against solid competitors but was still able to build my business to peaks much greater than the guys before me and I'm doing that again with Rackshack. If you think there is $337/ year in profit left in the first year including paying off that Compaq server in the first year, I am afraid you do not understand the true economics of the hosting business.

This is not suprising as most large hosters do not understand the economics. ALL of the large, public "managed services" and "managed hosting" companies are LOSING money. Rackspace claims to be profitable and the fact that they are profitable has been published by at least one publication. Rackshack and EV1 continually put 9-11% of gross revenues to the bottom line "Net Income" every quarter now. Do a little comparison of publick hosting companies are make yourself a comparison!

We have a niche to provide dedicated servers at LOW prices. Rackspace has a niche to provide managed services at high prices. Two different market segments. Two different sets of clients. The only place in the market where we overlap is the mid-market servers in the $199-$299 catagory. We lost some of that business to them and we capture some of their lower end business.

Which is better? Both!

Robert Marsh
Head Surrfer Rackshack.net

niyogi

03-16-2002, 06:56 PM

it's too bad their website is down.

cperciva

03-16-2002, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by headsurfer
My point is simply an economic comparison. If you are a professional and can manage your own server, why pay these guys for services you do not need?

I know some people who are perfectly able to manage their server(s) who go with rackspace for one simple reason: their SLA.

Provide a rackspace-style network SLA and I'm sure you'll get more customers.

panopticon

03-16-2002, 07:06 PM

Each of the above companies is obviously doing something right. What that is by each company is quite different. But, each has grown to large numbers for some reason.
Not necessarily from the customer's point of view though. Some of the biggest companies also offer the worst quality of products/service. For example, *****.

JBIZ718

03-16-2002, 07:28 PM

I do know that when you by in bulk things change as i mentioned.

My daretocompare to you is this. When your support is equal to or as good as Rackspace, then Ill give you some credit.

Ive talked to enough of your clients who love your price points, think the network is ok, but think the support is terrible.

So as i said I think when you can step up support to not take hours to get a reboot done, then will talk

Joe

headsurfer

03-16-2002, 07:58 PM

Point well taken. However, a customers greatest weapon is his credit card account and money.

As a consumer, I vote with my money and refuse to do business with people I don't care for.

I have never used *****s services. I know of noone who has. I have no basis to form an opinion of them.

But, don't you think their customers would have also voted with their money? Plus, I'm not sure that I would consider them one of the larger dedicated hosts. (Top 5-10 anyway)

To JBIZ: Say what you will about my support but YOU are not a user and have NO DIRECT experience with such. From that perspective, you have no basis to take me to task there. As for reboots, those are done in a matter of just a few minutes: two to ten. Before the move to Imperial and an onsite staff, that time was much greater. However, since the move and settling in to our routines, reboots and restores are VERY quick.

I'll say it again... we are not a manager services company. We are a dedicated hosting company. There is a difference but apparently you do not understand that. Our primary responsibility is to make the server available and keep the network going. To that end, we do an excellent job!

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

aleavens

03-16-2002, 08:21 PM

I am a rackShack user and I have had to call support twice ( I live in Canada so it is expensive to call Texas) since I got my server. Both times the situation was resolved quickly. 1 was a reboot, the support guy put me on hold, called the data centre then told me that they rebooted and it would be up by the time I tried to log in again. He was right. reboot time.... the length of time it takes an AMD box to boot. I have gotten very good support on their chat room, (except when I asked if the new 400GB transfer was avalible for existing clients) on the whole, I think the support is great, considering that they are growing so fast and have to constanly add staff. It takes time to train people to the level that you need/want. Hats off to Rack Shack and Head surfer and crew.

jmars

03-16-2002, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by dektong

I just knew that Nvidia (and Nforce?) makes chipset for motherboard. If not, then I ama not sure what you are comparing, SIS, VIA, AMD and Nvidia?

cheers,
:beer:

I don't understand your question.

I'm just saying that most chipsets are compatible... and if I were to choose in ORDER of stability, I'd choose: AMD first... Nvidia second (who makes the Nforce Crush chipset)... SIS third... VIA last...

I was also making the point that it's often a CHEAP motherboard, not the chipset, which is incompatible. All of the above are fine if you set up properly generally.. but cheap motherboards often have electrical problems and unfinished BIOSes... which cause major problems.

ie -- Electrical problems and a bad bios can cause incompatibilities. It may not be the chipset, per se.

headsurfer

03-16-2002, 08:44 PM

Reboot clarification:

The time for us to perform the reboot is VERY quick... two to ten minutes. Depending upon what happens with the server, it could take the server several minutes to complete the reboot.

We are evaluating a move to the Ext 3 file system for all servers which would make reboots a little more pain free. We current use Ext 3 on the 7.1 XP 1700 and P III systems only.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

JBIZ718

03-16-2002, 09:09 PM

What you may not realize is that since ive been doin this for 3 years I do consulting and support work for others who are clients of your

If you would like me to post some horror stories of some of your customers on this board I will. I dont think this is the place, but if you would like me to, I will if that will justify me havin enough expierence dealin with your company. Ive also dealt with customers that dont know what there doin that have servers with you.

You may not realize but ive owned and operated a hosting company for 3 years now. I know the game as good as you and anyone else.

Im not sayin go be rackspace but if your gonna dare to compare then you better be ready, and honestly many things beat your racks, thats right many.

When you cover all grounds, competiting on the main frame level, the colo level and every other level of this industry, then your dare to compare will justify itself. Right now you may perform well in the low end market, but there are many markets beyond that. And its quite insulting to call yourself the best, which in many ways you are not

Joe

Fish_Saver

03-16-2002, 09:10 PM

Why do so many Linux boxes need so many reboots so quickly?

drewnick

03-16-2002, 09:15 PM

In my experience, they are either overloaded with traffic, or more likely misconfigured in one way or another.

A Cobalt RaQ, for example, will run for 100+ days without reboot over and over with no problems.

Drew

dektong

03-16-2002, 09:22 PM

Originally posted by JBIZ718
If you would like me to post some horror stories of some of your customers on this board I will. I dont think this is the place, but if you would like me to, I will if that will justify me havin enough expierence dealin with your company. Ive also dealt with customers that dont know what there doin that have servers with you.

Please do ... I wonder ... out of presumably 2-4000 clients, how many have come to you with horror stories about rackshack. Also, since rackshack never offer manged dedicated server, the people who come to you must also be newbie that does not know how to admin a server, and that's not rackshack fault.

cheers,
:beer:

Fish_Saver

03-16-2002, 09:57 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------
drewnick - or more likely misconfigured in one way or another.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

With Ensim at Rackshack I feel like a beta tester.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
headsurfer - I vote with my money and refuse to do business
----------------------------------------------------------------------

If I wouldn't lose my setup fees I'd be gone. A month ago one of your Customer Service reps offered me that - I surely should have taken it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
headsurfer -Say what you will about my support but YOU are not a user
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have entered up several tickets per incident - starting Day One about the hostname on the server. Your techs were closing them before I opened them. This was/is a known well documented problem with Ensim. Finally I called the tech trashed the system trying to change the name, a screwdriver shut the whole place down while I was on the phone and I got a restore later that weekend. So as a paying customer your tech support in my experience on a server I have hardly used is terribly lacking. I suspect that users have low expections and do not read the manual. I am on my 7 or 8 trouble ticket because of ensim FTP problems because non or your techs read the tickets (and yes I believe that I could fix this myself in a relatively short time). They must get paid by how many they close.

I expected three things when I signed up

1. Decent Network (it is much better now, thank you)
2. Properly Setup Stable Server and Working Control Panel (not even close yet)
3. Tech support for the items which you provided (this certainly doesn't exist)

But then I do get quick reboots.

Then again what ever happened to Z28?

JBIZ718

03-16-2002, 09:59 PM

Weve had newbies to expierence people, and in between

Most from referalls. Most with ensim, weve delt with ensim a long time.
Some with plesk

But some people just have problems, and need others to help

The majority i will say could have been answered by a support team with basic linux knowledge. Most did contact RS first and then looked for outside help

Joe

Chicken

03-16-2002, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by JBIZ718
The majority i will say could have been answered by a support team with basic linux knowledge. Most did contact RS first and then looked for outside help

Joe
What exactly is included with an RS package? If they only set up the server on the rack and set up the initial install of ensim, then unless there is an issue with that install (or hardware/network issue), I'd think they'd be done.

You are coming down pretty harsh on them Joe so I think at this point you need to post something that indicates that the servers they set up weren't configured properly from the start and that they went running for help elsewhere.

Again, I don't know exactly what comes with a RS server, but if it is non-managed, then I wouldn't think a whole heck of a lot.

coight

03-17-2002, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by Patrick-EV1
I'll chime in with a problem I've seen with identifying hardware issues on our end, a lot of the time when we sell a new server and it crashes for no reason, the end user puts in a 'Reboot' ticket, with no other information other than that and let it go on for several days, just asking for Reboots before suddenly getting angry and exploding with a new ticket titled "HARDWARE ISSUE! WHY WONT YOU FIX IT?", and the past tickets having no indication of anything like this as we dont know what the user is doing on the server, so we dont just assume because it's being rebooted that there's a hardware problem. What we try to ask for is more information, load averages, total site #s, etc.. before we just 'assume' there's a hardware problem, which because these are not managed servers, require some prior investigations on the end user's side. Load average at the time of crash is also a very useful piece of information. While I dont know your case and exactly what information you put in because I dont have your RS# I'll be more than happy to look into it for you if you provide it to me. You may have done everything right and us everything wrong, but I dont know that until I look at the account and I will be the first to apologize if we were in the wrong, but I know personally, once a customer has given me enough information to show me the hardware is bad, other than "Hardware is bad because it's been rebooted", I will promptly authorize a full server swap.

After 5 days, 2 server changes 3 ram changes. I get this yesterday:

The Trouble Ticket you entered into the Members Section of RackShack has
been modified. The following notes have been made to your ticket.
------------------------
*************3/15/02 1:28:43 PM
Hard Drive needs to be restored per patrick. waiting for EU authorization
for restore. *************

FSCK WILL NOT FIX THIS. SERVER WILL NEED RESTORE.

------------------------

Today I go into the chat and ask for an update if my server has had a restore and the tech informs me their is no ticket

I still have yet to receive any compensation on the matter.

Patrick-EV1

03-17-2002, 01:13 PM

Here's exactly what comes with the server, per Ensim's install specifications:
RedHat 7.1
Networked Workstation
www/mail/etc tools
Development
Utilitities
Authoring
DNS Server
Development->Languages->TK
Downloaded all the newest rpms and -F'd them to freshen the installed rpms with newest versions.
( Mind you this all comes with GCC ( Development ))! We had a problem with that in the _very_ beginning as it was mistakenly left out but very quickly added to the install and we even installed it manually for the users who were without and called in or submitted trouble tickets ).

Then we run Ensim's install script and they take it from there.
Everything else is up to the end user to install, we dont ever guarantee we install any suite of modules for you, as it isnt needed for the GUI we install, this is completely up to the person who gets the server, if we installed every module/software every person could want, we'd start receiving complaints about too much software being installed. Yes, our install does grow and change with user preference, everyday when I see suggestions to add or change that I believe have merit, I'll do it.

Re: Ext2
Yes, we issue them with Ext2 filesystems which are what comes by default on RedHat 7.1, and if you know RedHat 7.1, you should've known this before you got the server, and it's not too difficult to change it over to ext3 yourself and as headsurfer said, we're looking into doing this ourselves but to date, every filesystem change effects Ensim in a different way ( Different partitioning, etc.. ) and even Ensim said they're not sure if it'll hurt anything or not, so I'm not going to dive into it without a lot of testing.

Re: hostname
As far as changing the hostname, if you know what you're doing, is very very easy, /etc/hosts /etc/sysconfig/network, reboot. Done. On reboot it'll execute a 'detectchanges' script made by Ensim that changes it in Ensim's software and the web software. We are also working with our developer to make this automated so that when you signup it'll change the hostname for you. Maybe there are some other bugs I'm missing there, as I dont work in technical support and see all the calls come through, but that's always worked for me and I test it on every master install before I duplicate it out to the customers.

Re: Your ticket
I'll investigate that now as I do remember there being a ticket and a problem, and I do remember it being non-hardware related, I'll let you know.

Re: Reboot
I dont know why so many linux boxes need reboots so quickly, we have more valid overloaded servers that need rebooting than we do for hardware reasons, I can tell you that now, so obviously, we dont assume hardware issue everytime. Again, we dont monitor what the user does to the server, once we give you the server, it's yours', if you crash it, it's none of our business why it crashed, we just reboot it for you, if it crashed for some other reason, that's up to the user to discover and enter a trouble ticket telling us exactly why they believe it's a hardware issue. We dont have the resources nor do we claim to have the resources to sit there and check through the log files for every server we reboot and monitor them for the user, this isnt part of the service we offer.

I think the bottom line is we dont mind taking criticism, but sometimes it comes in very unfair methods, I personally watch my email, communicate with the DC techs and watch askmesurfer email for complaints all weekend, only to be relieved to see none and then read about them here instead. Isnt it more of a valid method to go up the chain before publicly slamming an entire company because of some mistakes.:confused:

It's said best in the last post about the hardware issues, we gave every benefit of the doubt that the user was not doing anything wrong and when you said it was a hardware issue, we swapped the hardware out to try and get you up as quickly as possible.

I've given it before and I'll give it again, my email address is patms@ev1.net, I check this all week long and I work at the datacenter, if you're having issues with reboots, restores, hardware etc.. my email address is always there. I check it at least when I wake up in the morning and before I go to bed at night on weekends, but many times I check it a lot more than that.

Tim Greer

03-17-2002, 05:50 PM

I can't believe I read this entire thread. Yeah, I was bored, but I thought it was about something else. I agree the thread should have ended with a question mark, but no punctionation makes me not assume it's a statement either -- after being online for so many years, I'm used to it.

However, I'm a little confused here? The way I see it, they offer low end and higher end servers. So, it's up to you to decide if it's a real server or not and if you think one's too low, get the higher end one. Isn't it that simple? Then it turned into a support issue, which is surely relevant to the service you get, but isn't relevant to the quality of the servers. Some people don't care, some people don't get much traffic hitting their systems, so that might work okay for them. Years ago, I ran a site that got about 7.5 million hits a month, and that was on a Linux RedHat server running Apache, running 32 Megs RAM and a P120 CPU (sure, it crashed a LOT due to the load, but it could handle most of the load "decently" for what it was, and the fact that 99.999% of all the hits were spawning CGI processes of Perl scripts), so I'm pretty sure that a Duron can handle some decent traffic. Sure, if you are really serious, like me, you'd probably settle for nothing less than a higher end hardware set up (and that can be a personal thing or a real issue), even if the Duron could easily handle the sites, like myself you'd probably not use anything but an Athlon anyway and spend a little more to do it.

So, okay, maybe some systems seem too low end, like toys, etc., but if we aren't getting the server, why would we care? If we were, we'd choose a higher end server and pass up the lower end one's. I see a lot of things that aren't enough for my needs, but I don't bother to complain -- it's just not for me. If I wasn't sure if it might be enough and I didn't have a lot of money to spend, I'd ask people's opinions about the hardware. RS isn't the only company that offers lower ended systems, because there's a lot of people out there that need them, want them or it might be all they need. I have worked for a few data centers and ISPs, etc., and I usually don't see many people get enough traffic to their systems to really worry about having a low end system anyway, so it's good for everyone. Someone that gets a low ended system and doesn't know any better and finds out the hard way it was not enough, probably doesn't have any business trying get a server at RS and be the person that runs and administrates it anyway. The low end system would be the last of their worries.

So, if RS provides servers and sets them up, provides the connection and gives you your bandwidth and reboots your system if it's needed, what is there to complain about? I guess I'm confused how them providing lower end systems compared to higher end systems is a reason to complain -- it's not like they are not telling you what you're getting. Really, where's the argument? I'm seriously confused by all this and why this thread was so long -- it just doesn't make any sense.

panopticon

03-17-2002, 06:05 PM

it's not like they are not telling you what you're getting.
Actually, it is somewhat difficult to find out exactly what you're getting. One of the nice things about DV2/tranxactglobal is that they tell you exactly what motherboard, case, hard drive, etc. you're getting if you ask. Rackshack does not like to tell you. Finally a customer of theres said that their servers came with 5400 Maxtor hard drives rather than 7200 RPM drives as I had expected. And in a thread about why RH 7.2 wasn't installed, it came out it was incompatible with the motherboards they use. Before the assumption was that Rackshack just didn't want to install it because it was easier to keep mirroring RH 7.1 which was assured compatible with Plesk/Ensim. The motherboard incompatiblity though raises the question of how upgradeable these servers are in the future, though Patrick said that you can up2date them. Still although the information can be obtained by asking customers and in some cases, asking skillfull questions to try and narrow down what the motherboards might be, it is not exactly a given. I've seen systems of an equal Mhz perform very well and very poorly based on the motherboard and other hardware used, so there is some question of 'how fast/how stable' are the Rackshack machines. Also the fact that you can't test them without a setup fee (which you can do with some of the servers at dv2/tranxactglobal) makes the question really worth asking.

Tim Greer

03-17-2002, 06:45 PM

However, anyone that truly cares or knows about such issues, would (I'd assume) simply ask RS's sales team. I mean, if they don't bother asking and just assume, while I wouldn't say they get what they deserve, it just seems a bit reckless and to complain later would be silly. I'd never assume, I'd ask. Once I got the server, I'd check -- sometimes the NOC makes a mistake and puts in the wrong part. You inform them and they fix it -- although some company's might not, and if they don't, you get your money back for a product that was promised and never delivered. I can understand the disappointment finding out later, but people should ask. I once worked for a dedicated/collocation provider (Also did regular shared hosting too -- I won't mention any names, of course) about a year or so ago, for a few months. This guy was just taking people's money and didn't know much of anything about the business or any technical aspects. I.e., he'd install Redhat on a server, and just choose a full install (everything), put it all on one big / root partition and call it a day. No support, no clue! He didn't even have any intention to provide no service, he just wasn't able to -- so I inevitably did everything anyway. I honestly don't know what he got paid for and I still see his company name mentioned here (and I think even somewhere in this very thread, which made me cringe). I quit working for him after lack of payment to me (his employee) and because I was simply doing so much that I was basically running his business -- all he did, was do quick, insecure installs and left them at the data center that he rented space to stare the systems in and hook up to their lines and it ended their -- oh, he collected payments, but that was it. Set ups took him weeks and reboots required him to drive 3 hours to the data center. Now, THAT is bad service!

My point to mentioning disappointments, I had one myself; I wasn't working for him long at the time and didn't know how horrible his services where. He advertised here on these forums about some $129 a month deal, or some such deal (like a 15 or 20 GIG drive, 800 MHZ CPU, 15 or 25 (or was it 50) GIG's of bandwidth). Nothing great in hardware, but it sounded decent and had okay bandwidth. Well, I decided to take him up on the offer and run a personal site of mine (no competing, no web hosting, etc.). Well, I talked to him and said I'd like one of those deals. Want to know what he tells me (his new employee and "head technical support"/the only guy that did anything, the only administrator, only support guy, everything, all he did was collect money for people's systems that sat there and I'd deal with clients screaming that things weren't added/installed, etc. like he said he would -- which I'd end up doing for him anyway -- anyway, back to the story and the disappointment -- guess what he says)!?; He tells me "Sorry, that server deal ended yesterday." He actually was telling people on this board in the advertising forum, that anyone that showed interest or emailed him up to midnight the night before were still able to get the deal. Heh, that was a bad sign, huh? Too bad I didn't email him or tell him the night before. Man, what a jerk. *LOL*

Well, anyway, so I decided to cut a deal with some other server, because I was all into the idea of setting up my sites again. So, he gives me this "deal" on a system that was a 400 MHZ CPU, 15 GIG drive and 50 GIG's of bandwidth for like $150 (but it turnd out that it'd be like $200+) a month. I didn't care anymore, and he could just take it right out of my paycheck (that took forever to get anyway), and the deals around at other providers really weren't that much better anyway, and at least I knew he was locating the servers at a decent NOC (at that time anyway), and I needed the bandwidth more than anything. So, I have him set it up and I log in to look at it. Geez, the board was so old, it would only support a 400 MHZ CPU -- I was going to upgrade it. He only put in 128 Megs RAM, not 256 megs, and the drive was running at DMA 33! I asked him to add the other RAM, if I could get a faster CPU and that I wanted at least a DMA 66. He says that the board is too old and he'll upgrade it (for another $150!). I just told him to forget it and steamed about it for a little while. This is a fairly decent sized dedicated/collocation service too, and it's amazing what some people will do or try and get away with.

So, while I can see being upset, it's up to you to ask and check it -- it's not anything difficult and there's no other way to be sure and happy about it. I still don't see the problem, RS aren't like this idiot I just mentioned and he's a competitor of theirs (albeit, not a very big one), so that's where I'd worry -- ask and they'll tell you. Besides, in regards to Maxtor, I wouldn't put one of those in my server even if it was free -- but that's my opinion. Still, just ask and if you like what you hear, grab it and check to make sure there was no mistakes and if so, tell them there was a mistake. If you don't like it, you go elsewhere or talk to them about another deal with other hardware. Either it's for you or not, but there's far worse people out there that are lying and these people aren't, so let's be fair about that one aspect, at least. After all, they tell you what you get, you get it, they give you the bandwidth you pay for and you request a reboot if you need it. What more can they or should they offer? I mean, maybe they can offer more server support, but why? This is a service for people that are supposed to be getting the system, because they know how to do everything that's needed. Granted, not that many seem to when it comes down to it, but that's what it's for, so support is a trivial issues -- beyond the connection and hardware issues and original install anyway. Cheers!

Fish_Saver

03-17-2002, 07:26 PM

My beef is that I paid setup for a Linux Box and Ensim.

It has been two months and I have done nothing with the box because it has never properly been setup. I get answers like

Patrick__________________________________
Re: Ext2
Yes, we issue them with Ext2 filesystems which are what comes by default on RedHat 7.1, and if you know RedHat 7.1, you should've known this before you got the server, and it's not too difficult to change it over to ext3 yourself and as headsurfer said, we're looking into doing this ourselves but to date, every filesystem change effects Ensim in a different way ( Different partitioning, etc.. ) and even Ensim said they're not sure if it'll hurt anything or not, so I'm not going to dive into it without a lot of testing.
______________________________

about everything.

Tim Greer

03-17-2002, 07:30 PM

Well, this isn't my fight, I was just trying to understand what all this was about -- not to say people's complaints were invalid or legitimate -- there's no way I can know and it's none of my business.. so I'll stop wondering. Good luck everyone!

panopticon

03-17-2002, 07:46 PM

Tim Greer

03-17-2002, 08:09 PM

Originally posted by panopticon

At one point RackShack said that they would not tell you what specific hardware was used because it changed based on availability. I tried to ask via the online chat but did not get an answer even though I asked three times and waited for over 30 minutes. A question was asked whether they were 7200 or 5400 RPM hard drives in the rackshack forums and only an existing customer answered that they were 5400 - Rackshack did not answer the question. So it's not quite as simple as asking Rackshack and getting an answer. You have to really work at it over a long period of time to try and figure out what hardware they might be using. So you are gauranteed to get a 1 Ghz Duron box, but it is very difficult to get an idea of what exactly you're getting hardware wise. You can either 1.) ask current customers for info and how stable / fast their configurations are or 2.) pay the setup fee and see if it works for you and if it turns out to be unstable or too slow, I suppose you could count it as a loss. But it would be better if the information were easier to get on exact hardware, etc.

Points taken. However, I'd not trust my system would reflect that of another user's anyway -- for good or bad. If I couldn't get an answer, I'd speak with someone that could and report that sales representative for review. It would be one thing to say "Equal or better value". I.e., we will provide you with "this" model, and if we are out, it'll be "this other model" and so on. I wouldn't get a server with anyone that wouldn't tell me what brand and model I was going to end up with. When people tell me "You will get 'this' board, but if it's not in stock you'll get something else", then they better tell me what else. I don't like the "This or _agree that we can best make a choice for you if it's not in stock_" type of thing. In fact, if I couldn't get any definite answers, I'd mark them as "Not for me" and move on. Some people might not care, but some of us do. I'd make an effort to speak with someone that would make sure they know and told me though and report that sales representative. I don't care what qualifications someone has, I'd always want to be aware of what I'd get, rather than have someone supply what they personally consider "equal or better" or even possibly "almost as good". I hope that's not common and since I've never dealt with them, I won't guess, but perhaps this "HeadSurfer" person will respond about that aspect and get that resolved.

GAMPort

03-18-2002, 07:24 AM

Tim_Greer: I think I can guess where you worked. I was a customer there for almost two whole months :stickout

Thank god Rackshack isn't like that at all.

GordonH

03-18-2002, 10:55 AM

Hello
I think the message from Rackshack is that you shouldn't change anything from the default settings unless you really know what you are doing.

That seems reasonable.

However we once had a ticket about a netowrk issue returned with words to the effect:

"bash history shows you have modified the httpd.conf therefore we are no longer able to assist"

Not very helpful, especially as we had not altered it, just read it to understand how ensim includes all the other user files.
It was irrelevant anyway as it was a network problem at the time but I got the feeling that they had used it a s away of not answering the ticket.

Gordon

jmars

03-18-2002, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Tim_Greer
Besides, in regards to Maxtor, I wouldn't put one of those in my server even if it was free -- but that's my opinion

Normally, I wouldn't, either. Except that the new Maxtor D740X line appears to be designed by Quantum. And a Quantum would go into my server in a millisecond! :) Storagereview.com has more to say about this. The D740X line is actually their top rated IDE drive for budget (i.e., non-scsi) servers right now.

Too bad IBM drives (the IDE ones, anyway) appear to be little boxes of mold and death at the moment. At one time, they were really great.

The whole hard drive landscape is a bit backwards right now, methinks, due to acquisitions, key engineers changing jobs, and some normally stellar companies (some excellent in the research field) using less than stellar manufacturing processes.

surferguru12

03-18-2002, 10:53 PM

I have to agree with JBIZI think HS is being way to confident... There are many other companies out there that are much more stable and offer support that is great... When you want to compare something you should take all factors into consideration. Support is the number item with any hosting service... When there is a problem people count on the support department... As far as the dare to compare... I think that is so far off base and HS is being arrogant beyond belief... Let's look at who you compared your "numbers" to.. Verio, Excellent service, they offer great hardware, Dialtone, Same thing, great service great hardware... RS, Excellent prices, Mediocre at best support and ok hardware..... Even if support is not good, they should be knowledgeble.... If sheer numbers ($) is what is growng RS and that is HS philosophy then I can see major problems down the road.... I Hope not, but I can see that... Update on my stuff, they did finaly get the problems worked out.... (3 Days later)... There are still minor problems... If they get them worked out in the next couple of days I'm staying, if not, bye bye RS..

headsurfer

03-19-2002, 12:45 AM

Surfer-

I'd like to have a look at your account and notes. What is your rs#?

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

surferguru12

03-19-2002, 12:51 AM

I do not think that is neccesary, I do not want to be "marked" (do not take the wrong way), things are getting worked and I hope they continue to... Your prices are great, I have my beefs with the way some things are done.. BUT, as I mentioned in another post, the speed of the network has been VERY GOOD and I hope that will continue as I'm sure it will. On a personal note, I don't think that dare to compare thing is to nice, some of the very customers like myself that are with you would like to offer dedicated servers at some point... Do I need to compete with my own provider ?

surferguru12

03-19-2002, 12:53 AM

HS, please email me directly and I will tell you my beefs...

jmars

03-19-2002, 05:06 AM

How does the "Dare to Compare" site compromise your ability to sell servers?

It's going to compare RS against Rackspace, Dialtone, Verio... large companies, with tons of servers, that suffer so much inefficent management bloat, they can't compete too well on price. I.E., companies that are set to fail as the server market commoditizes, while they're stuck trying to be giant boutiques.

It's not a "Dare to Compare Us to Our Customers" challenge! hehe

Can you explain your fears?

headsurfer

03-19-2002, 11:17 AM

Why would we try to pounce on a little guy? Does not make much sense to me.

If you are going to set a target, make sure it is a big one. As those companies have grown larger and larger and have a larger base at higher prices, it make it very difficult for them to compete on price.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

coight

03-19-2002, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by headsurfer
Why would we try to pounce on a little guy? Does not make much sense to me.

If you are going to set a target, make sure it is a big one. As those companies have grown larger and larger and have a larger base at higher prices, it make it very difficult for them to compete on price.

Robert Marsh
Head Surfer Rackshack.net

Not to interupt you or anything but we are still blocked from the signup form :bawling:

brucek

03-19-2002, 12:05 PM

I have rackshack and have had no problems they are great. I also have a 700 mhz with an athlon and have been running it with heavy taffic for 2 years and never had 1 issue with it. This is my personal opinion and servers work great.:o

manmythlgnd

03-20-2002, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by surferguru12
I did end up ordering from them, I called the order in an they were VERY friendly, but that is where it ended. They completely installed Ensim wrong, the name servers were wrong, certain Modules I need were not installed and I was told that they could not install them... I am going to stick with it and see what they can do... But, I understand what everyone is saying about it's a very shaky start with them....

vi /etc/resolv.conf and use cpan for your modules

Seeing as I am of the opinion that everyone does a substandard job compared to me, I would come to expect this and will most likely blow away anything except for the bare operating system. Of course, I'd be pretty pissed off if they installed more than that. Since you say ensim, it sounds like it's a linux box. I'd be pretty pissed off if someone desecrated my beautiful BSD boxes with such a scourge. But that's minor given the scope of your message.

Since you are obviously not of a technical background judging by how daunting the "problems" you've been left with seem, why have you not opted for a managed server? Dedicated server + point and click and hope it works does not make a successful company, if of course that is what you are doing. If you were Jeff K. (http://www.somethingawful.com/jeffk/) I'd say you're taking the right approach.

Fish_Saver

03-20-2002, 07:39 AM

My Ensim was Perl 5.6 CPAN wants to install 5.6.1 it will further reduce your Ensim server to a non working fractiod.

After two months I have aabandoned all hope of the Ensim product which Rackshack Setup will ever be usable.

tryavds

03-20-2002, 07:55 AM

There is nothing wrong with the Duron, and a desktop is not that different from a server. If the hardware can process, do I/O and run an OS, it would work just fine for your needs.

As for the price, not sure about $300, but it probably would cost about $400-500 from new parts. Go to pricewatch.com and run the specs, or go to the cheap linux server web site (do a google search) for more info. That said, so what? How much does it cost to build a pentium III server?

Coming back to the original subject, I would say that the proof is in the pudding. Bite the bullet, write a check for $99 and find out for yourself... Again, that said, hosting is a lot more than the price of the server - support, quality of bandwidth, etc. count for much more than the hardware.

SecureWebs

03-20-2002, 07:53 PM

Many hosting companies are wondering how Rack Shack can do it.

I would hazard a guess that some of the key ways to offer servers so cheaply are:

1. Build a low price server (which is not the same thing as a server that will not perform).
-- forget SCSI
-- forget RAID Cases or multiple drives
-- forget about Athlons or hot processors
-- forget about 266MHz memory
-- consider tower cases because rack mounts are more expensive
-- forget redundant anything - just having a server sophisticated enough to have a redundant power supply is more expensive than the whole server would cost otherwise by many times

2. Advertise lots of bandwidth and play the odds. Since most servers don't enjoy high traffic you can afford the few that actually do use that much bandwidth. Sell it knowing that if every one took you up on your offer you would go broke - but you know better so you offer what most don't need anyway. That is the way the game is played - there is nothing dishonest about it whatsoever.

3. Hookup up with Cogent or a backbone that is cheap. Again, this is not to say they are not good - but if you pay too much for bandwidth you cannot afford to give it away in such large quantities.

4. Give adequate support but largely differ support issues back to the server administrator - your customer. They broke it so they need to fix it.

I have a feeling Rack Shack is well worth $99 and they can only offer it by not wasting money on the frills. They may not make some larger customers very comfortable because more sophisticated customers are more snobby about the hardware. They would NEVER call what Rack Shack builds a "server". They spend more on the secretary's workstation but that is a corporate mentality and not a reflection that you will need more than a $99 server. They would never put data worth $1,000,000 on a $99 server. And most of us would not put $10,000 worth of data on a $99 server, but for God's sake $99 is almost giving it all away. Hard to complain at that price.

Scott Hirsch
securewebs.com

cilabs

04-09-2002, 06:28 PM

I have not had a single problem with Rackshack! Only many many successes. In fact, Rackshack is my company's best kept secret (Sorry Headsurfer ;) ).

The support is super! They have a great trouble ticket system, and are ready to take on any hardware issue (I have had none though) and any network related issues you may have. They are just awsome.

You really cant complain about a 1Ghz machine with 400GB's I MEAN 400GB's of transfer. I was at host (uhhm Chris Faulkner, does that ring a bell with anyone?) Who did charge the same amount, but only gave 50GB's of transfer, and at the time, that was for a celeron 600.

I have been so pleased with Rackshack -- I just hope that they eventually offer colocation (Mr. Headsurfer... please please please :). )

Nicholas Brown

04-09-2002, 06:38 PM

Didnt take long did it - ahhh I knew this would happen :rolleyes:

afriq

04-10-2002, 05:00 AM

Since I've been with Rackshack for just over 7 months now, I may as well present some lesser known facts about Rackshack to wht newcomers:

- Rackshack started to offer hosting to utilize some spare bandwidth from EV1 (a sister/parent company).

- In the not too distant past, Rackshack only offered Cobalt RaQ's. They now offer AMD and Intel based servers as well. As a matter of fact, it was stated by Headsurfer that they might not offer any new Sun/Cobalt products in future.

- They did not have any support staff on full-time duty in their data center before the end of 2001. They then aquired a 2nd data center, and moved all servers from the previous location to the new data center. Their support improved by leaps and bounds ever since.

Rackshack is making dedicated hosting affordable to a lot more people, and I don't quite understand why people have to knock them all the time. If their servers are too cheap for you, go to somebody like http://hosting.com (ex-Virtualis/Adgrafix) and see what you can get for $349/month (setup $399) - unmanaged! For those of you that don't want to take the time to search their site, here's the full link: http://hosting.com/dedicated_pmanaged_linux.jsp**

Just keep in mind that Rackshack is not there to hold your hand. If you don't know Linux (or at least plan to learn some system administration tasks yourself), rather go somewhere else. For those of us that know and love Linux, their product offerings are the best thing since, well, sliced bread!

And no, I'm not working for Rackshack, and nobody asked me to post. I just know a good deal when I see one!

--------------------------------------
All this applies to hosting.com (I don't have anything against them, but it breaks my heart to see what some people are paying, perhaps not knowing any better):

** $349/month with a $399 setup will give you an IBM x300, which is nothing but a 1GHz Pentium III with 256Mb of Ram. If you want 512Mb of Ram, take a look at their IBM x340, which will set you back a whopping $649/month (setup of $699).

Want managed hosting? Try $649/month for the x300 and $949/month for the x340 ...

Additional IP's? Going for a steal at $25/month for a block of 8 ...
-----------------------------------------------

afriq

04-10-2002, 05:37 AM

Originally posted by Nicholas Brown
Didnt take long did it - ahhh I knew this would happen :rolleyes:
10 pages to be exact ...

lotuslnd

04-10-2002, 02:43 PM

i've been w/ rackshack twice (should have learned the first time, but figured i'd give 'em another shot ... those low prices are damn tempting!) ... anyways, from personal experience, i'd say "stay away". well, all depending on how important your server is/will be to you. if you don't mind continuous down-time, then yeah, go ahead.

i initially had an old raq w/ them ... but, it was impossible to find packages for it so it seemed rather pointless having. i also had non-stop packet loss ... the network was completely saturated or something. i would try pinging from several different sources and i'd see the same issue every single time.

then rackshack offered sun netras. i signed up immediately but this was a massive disastor. every time i'd go into their chat, the techs. wouldn't help as "they weren't familiar w/ solaris". nice. within a week of the suns going online (for sale), they were taken offline and i was stuck paying for something that they basically refused to support. there were a few instances where i'd ask for support and rackshack's general response to a support request involves a reboot, so my box would get reboot and wouldn't come up cleanly after it had been cycled. well, they had no idea how to console into it in the NOC so on a couple of occasions they had to pull it and take it to the office to "repair". this resulted in several stints of 24+ hours of downtime. again, nice. eventually they just cancelled my service as i was supposedly flooding their network (they were suggesting i had been hacked and kept telling me how ****ty an admin. i was). meanwhile, they handed me the box w/ not a single patch, and every imaginable service still open and accepting connections. yet, it was most definately my fault **IF** (i was still sceptical about the whole thing) the box had been hacked. not to mention the fact that it had been up for countless days (online, accessible, and asking for trouble) before it was handed off to me. and like the raq experience, their network was absolutely garabe. continuous outages, packet loss, you name it.

so from my experiences, i'd avoid rackshack at all costs. i was treated like an idiot by them and i'd never give them another dime of my hard earned money.

afriq

04-10-2002, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by lotuslnd
well, all depending on how important your server is/will be to you. if you don't mind continuous down-time, then yeah, go ahead.Are we talking about the same company?!?! I reckon we are, but your experiences obviously date back to the early Rackshack days. We run production servers at Rackshack, and haven't had any downtime caused by their network or data center setup since the 4th week in December 2001 (after they've moved to the new data center). Most of the downtime that we've had in 2002 was related to server overloads.

i initially had an old raq w/ them ... but, it was impossible to find packages for it so it seemed rather pointless having.Cobalt (and now Sun) is responsible for providing updated RaQ packages. Rackshack merely bought the servers from them, why hold them responsible?

then rackshack offered sun netras. i signed up immediately but this was a massive disastor.The netras are history. And Rackshack did not invent/design them either ...

there were a few instances where i'd ask for support and rackshack's general response to a support request involves a reboot, so my box would get reboot and wouldn't come up cleanly after it had been cycled. well, they had no idea how to console into it in the NOC so on a couple of occasions they had to pull it and take it to the office to "repair". this resulted in several stints of 24+ hours of downtime. Early RS again ... And we are still talking about Netras ...

meanwhile, they handed me the box w/ not a single patch, and every imaginable service still open and accepting connections. yet, it was most definately my fault **IF** (i was still sceptical about the whole thing) the box had been hacked.As I've said in an earlier post, don't use Rackshack if you don't know anything about Linux system administration. It's up to you (the customer) to close all security holes, all of which is well documented on the Internet and in mailing lists.

so from my experiences, i'd avoid rackshack at all costs. i was treated like an idiot by them and i'd never give them another dime of my hard earned money. You do that ... At the risk of repeating myself, Rackshack is great if you know your way around Linux, and take pride in server administration. It's a pity that you've been treated like an idiot, but we all know there are two sides to a coin. And judging by your post, you haven't learned the 1st lesson about Unix system administration, namely that Unix/Linux commands and parameters are case sensitive ...

Chill out - if you don't want to use them again, it is entirely up to you. I don't have money to burn on expensive servers, or paying for support that I don't need. As they say in America, your mileage may vary ...