Hi there.

I've been in this game a little while. I have done the reseller bit, moved up to one dedicated server and am planning on expanding even further. IE. more dedicated servers, a colo router, maybe even a full rack.

My question to you:

Do you think there is too much competition in the web hosting biz? OR is this one industry that will never be too diluted for thriving and fair competition?

What do you think? ;)

Originally posted by rezilient
. . . Do you think there is too much competition in the web hosting biz?
The market is so huge, and so fragmented, that it's not like webhosts are rubbing shoulders with eachother (except on WHT), in their respective markets. I look out onto my Aussie marketspace, and the fields are huge, and ready for harvest. :)

Never rely on WHT for customers. In my opinion it will only make things harder. However, as a source of information its the best place to be. Remember, this is a forum, not a place to get customers.

But to answer your questions, put simple, Nope. Market seems really big in my opinion and with so many smaller companies going bust, it helps other companies benefit more. Eliminating the inefficient.

Some people arent looking far enouh for customers, in which case it will seem diluted.... but it certainly isnt.

The incredible lack of ideas is what makes one feel there is so much competition.

But the potential market is huge and alot of it hasn't been touched yet.

This market is so incredibly oversaturated. It must be like 1 company per 2 customers or something and don`t forget all the wannabe monopolists like 1and1 or Yahoo. Quite obvious that it won`t work out for most companies. If you are asking me we really do NOT need any more competition.

thomas.smith,

Your wrong... But entitled to your opinion.

Not at all. Find your niche and you'll be set!

Originally posted by UH-Matt
thomas.smith,

Your wrong... But entitled to your opinion.

No I am not !! You are proud about your 7500 customers but what if you'd stop asking people to become your competitors ?? Maybe it would be 75.000 customers by now and you wouldn't drive a Porsche but 25 Ferraris.

Why lie to them? My company is not threatened by new startups peddling for business here on WHT.

There is room for startups and established hosts side by side, so I say "go for it" and wish them the best of luck. They will only survive if they have energy and enthusiasm for their hosting business, and if they get past the initial hurdles then good on them!

thomas.smith, please realise the hosting industry is very very young, fast-growing and ever changing.

I see hosting becoming a popular consumer service (like internet or email services) as the years go by and the potential market being a substantial majority of all internet users. By that scale, current companies have hardly scratched the surface of potential growth that can be achieved.

Companies that can solidify themselves now or in the next few years, evolve quickly, and come up with new ideas will continue to grow rapidly and have a loyal customer following.

I just say: Don't push this market as it is close to the edge. Now that the monopolists are trying to destroy us we should really look after our own asses and take the situation very seriously. Think about these aunt emma shops that are all gone now because of the wallmarts that are around now. That IS going to happen to us all sooner or later so that is a sure thing anyway. They question is: How much money can we get out of this before the market is dead. It will die. It is just a matter of time. 5 years ? 10 years ? How much time is left ? I just need to make enough money to live with the rest of my live within 5 years because when this business dies I do not want to be standing in the rain.

>Why lie to them? My company is not threatened by new
>startups peddling for business here on WHT.

Just a year ago I was a startup nobody peddling for business here on WHT. One year later I am hosting 2000 customers and making 10k a month of revenue. And in yet another year I think I will hit the 7500 customer mark as well... And if you are advertising on the same places as me I will definitely take a couple customers who would otherwise have signed up with you. Do not underestimate the potential of a WHT startup nobody !!

Well if your growing like that, stop moaning! haha.

The question is: How long will I be going like that with a market that gets more and more oversaturated...

Wait until the markets saturated before you call it oversaturated. There is LOADS of room in this industry as many people keep trying to tell you. If your finding it cramped then diversify your product.

The thing is you are forgetting Thomas is more and more people each and every day are signing up with the Internet. Of though people are people looking for web sites as well. Every day more people are in need of a web site. On WHT yes it is packed, but this is a forum full of web hosts. Also there is always room for competition, because only the strong will survive is how I see it! Though web hosting is just like any other business you will always have competition no matter what.

If you are worried that your competition is going to take your business maybe you should be trying to do something different? ;)

This industry has limited lifetime. That means to survive we really need loads of money. There will be a life after webhosting. Sad but true.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
This industry has limited lifetime. That means to survive we really need loads of money. There will be a life after webhosting. Sad but true.

Yes web hosting does have a limited lifetime, but none of us know when that lifetime will end. :)

Also I do agree with on some points Thomas so do not get me wrong :). Though instead of saying "no more room" say yes there is room, and then do much better job then them. That way they would rather get hosted by you then another host :).

I did never get into the reseller business because I always knew that attracting more competition for a few lousy bucks isn`t a good deal.

thomas.smith, so far i disagree with everything you have said on this topic very strongly. It would interest me to know how you have come to this conclusion and what you used for sources. If you are using WHT (by the looks of it you have), well then you have limited the scope of your reliability.

People need to understand that WHT isn't everything. Its just a forum!!! A place to exchange ideas and information.

I totally agree with UH-Matt. This industry just like the internet is still in its baby years. I don't find it difficult getting customers and I don't find it difficult competing against companies ten times bigger than mine.

I'll finish by saying this.
There is plenty of room in this market. However when it comes to getting customers, its simply a matter of which room you setup your business and the size of that room.
Let's just say WHT is a pretty small room with a lot of companies setting up camp in it.

Like i mentioned before, WHT is the best place for finding information and sharing expert as well as elementary knowledge, however don't depend on it for business. You'll be limiting your customer base and causing yourself a lot of hassle. It can even lead to the bankruptcy of your business if you're a start-up trying to get customers.

Just my opinion anyway ;)

Yes, there are customers in this market and I would like it to STAY THAT WAY !!

Originally posted by thomas.smith
The question is: How long will I be going like that with a market that gets more and more oversaturated...

With that thinking, go ahead and look at the overall picture..

Yes, new startups are happening every day, but tons more are crumbling.

:stickout:

Originally posted by thomas.smith
I did never get into the reseller business because I always knew that attracting more competition for a few lousy bucks isn`t a good deal.

But then again you are losing a selling angle. You'll never get a piece of the pie of that market. Simply by not offering reseller hosting, you are not preventing someone from being a reseller. lol.. they'll just go elsewhere.

Yes, but then they copy other companies' offers... Resellers tend to copy the offers of the company they used to buy a reselling account from. I have seen many offering the same offers but 20% cheaper...

Originally posted by thomas.smith
Yes, but then they copy other companies' offers... Resellers tend to copy the offers of the company they used to buy a reselling account from. I have seen many offering the same offers but 20% cheaper...

With as many hosting shops out there, it does not matter if a reseller doesn't come up with their own business plan and pricing and attempts to copy your offer.

Your plans & pricing are only part of the overall process of acquiring customers.

If your reseller is smart enough and has the drive to succeed using your model, then more power to them. You don't see me losing sleep.

>With as many hosting shops out there, it does not matter if a
>reseller doesn't come up with their own business plan and
>pricing and attempts to copy your offer.

One reseller...ok ! But the reseller market is big. There are thousands of people on it and one day some of them will grow big and you will see that your ROI is becoming worse and worse and you'll remember that guy Tom Smith and what he said...but it will be too late and you're gonna sell your Porsche and go back to McDonalds...

Originally posted by thomas.smith
>With as many hosting shops out there, it does not matter if a
>reseller doesn't come up with their own business plan and
>pricing and attempts to copy your offer.

One reseller...ok ! But the reseller market is big. There are thousands of people on it and one day some of them will grow big and you will see that your ROI is becoming worse and worse and you'll remember that guy Tom Smith and what he said...but it will be too late and you're gonna sell your Porsche and go back to McDonalds...
:bawling:

10 years ago we started hosting, and said, "man, if we get 5 years out of this business, we'll be lucky". Ten years later we are still here, still growing, and still saying the same thing about 5 years from now.

Yes, competition increases, yes it gets harder, but if you are truly talented both technically and business wise, you can continue to grow and more than survive in the long run.

For us, the recipe for success is higher prices (haven't lowered them since we started) and a focus on service in niche markets. The big guys and gals just can't compete with personalized service and expert knowledge in small markets.

Will it work 5 to 10 years from now? I do not know, but we'll change and adapt as necessary to make sure we're still around.

To answer the original question, there is dillution for the average proivder, but if you are above average, then the sky's the limit! :)

- John C.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
This industry has limited lifetime.

I don't think so. As long as there's an Internet, there will be web hosting. The industry is still in its infancy and will evolve through time.

Damn, I should have stayed in gopher hosting business. No competition, no progress for last 12 years. ;)

Just like the ice age killed the dinosaurs,one day there might be a disruptive technology that will replace web hosting.
This is just a hunch though. We can't just get complacent and sit on our laurel thinking that we are going to stay for another decade or so.
Internet is very dynamic. Whats here today might not be around in another decade.
I would diversify my assets to be safe.

Whats your url i want to steal your customers :D

Wait. So, you start a hosting business and are complaining when you get competition? You really expect people, in such a popular industry as web hosting to just say "I have skills in this, ah well, I don't want to make any money, doesn't matter, I'll go work at McDonalds for £3.50 p/hour"??

Really! In business, competition is what keeps you on your toes. Its what makes you realise when you need to up your game, when you need to go into the next gear to gain the edge.

There is no business in the world where new competition is not entering regularly - just that the Internet has more. Hosting will never run out, people always want websites and those websites always need hosting!

Thomas, if you are growing at that rate, why complain so much? ;) Lol.

And also, people seem to assume that WHT is the whole world and that there's so many hosts on WHT that there must be that many in that density in the world. Not so! WHT is where web hosting companies from around the world come and gather to chat - it's a forum!

The hosting market is not saturated yet and, to be honest, I don't think it ever will be! There's loads of room in this industry for plenty more companies!

Sorry if my opinions upset people, but, that's what they are - opinions. This is what I think on the subject!

Will.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
This industry has limited lifetime. That means to survive we really need loads of money. There will be a life after webhosting. Sad but true.

I don't agree. The industry as it is has a limited lifetime. Those companies that can adapt to the changing demands of consumers, and the changing of technology, will benefit greatly. Those that cannot will sink in the water.

I have a feeling that the internet, as it is right now, will eventually change into something completely different. So will the definition and economical function of a web host.

Originally posted by Torith
Yes web hosting does have a limited lifetime, but none of us know when that lifetime will end. :)
I know, but I'm not telling. :dgrin:

--

IMO, yeah, the hosting industry as we know it now, is limited, and probably won't be around in say 10 years. But there's a lot of water between here and now, so still plenty of time to build some good brands. :)

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
I know, but I'm not telling. :dgrin:

--

IMO, yeah, the hosting industry as we know it now, is limited, and probably won't be around in say 10 years. But there's a lot of water between here and now, so still plenty of time to build some good brands. :)

You know you want to tell me when it will end :pray:

thomas.smith, you sound like a dollar host, and your giving me the impression your about to fold up shop.

wait, oh no, the sky is falling, HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
IMO, yeah, the hosting industry as we know it now, is limited, and probably won't be around in say 10 years. But there's a lot of water between here and now, so still plenty of time to build some good brands. :) That's what I said in 1995, but we're still pretty close to what we were when we started, minus newer hardware, newer software, etc...

I'll post back in 2015. ;)

- John C.

Originally posted by Torith
You know you want to tell me when it will end :pray:

Thats not too difficult. It will end in the middle and low end when dialup connections are a thing of the past AND bandwidth deployed even to the homes is so plentiful that everyone could do their own hosting. Then its just a matter of an enterprising company or two seeing the emerging market for an app that takes most of the expertise out of administration and the ISPs seeing the market in allowing usage of the unused upstream bandwidth (that many people will never really even come close to saturating).

The low end market won't even mind (or even know) that it isn't as secure or feature rich as a standalone server with expert administration. Verizon FIOS already has the upload speeds to accomodate smaller sites (if they allowed it). Even the average gamer isn't going to saturate some of those specs I've been seeing. Its a ways down the road but for "the now" and for "the then" it suits hosts to think about offerring more than space and bandwidth.

On the other hand having a PC online for 24 hours a day is more expensive than a cheap three Dollar hosting account and you can`t really use your PC for other stuff or your site might become unreliable + you are not redundant (power and connection wise)

You are thinking of Today's processor (and also probably about busy sites.) We'll be well pass the "can't walk and chew gum" technology on lower end systems by the time Bandwidth is that plentiful.

Mission critical sites will in my opinion always keep higher end hosting alive but not for non critical sites. I think the days of the low end hosts are numbered. If I need hosting that protects me against the rare power outages (unless you live in Hurricane capital like I do) i'm not going to go with a $3 host anyway. I don't think the low end market will survive with the loss of those who don't care whether their site is down for a few minutes on the rare occassion their power goes off.

Nor will it survive the loss of those of us who feel alot more secure and in control with everything on our own box never mind not having to hampered as to what I can do on that box or through remote access.

Lots of Pcs are connected 24/7 right now.

thomas, you are really a "glass is half empty kinda guy". I have found you a great investment that is going to keep your hosting company #1. It is secret so don't tell anyone.

secret hosting weapon (http://www.despair.com/pessimistmug.html)

I think this will fit your business model perfectly. When it reaches the line, sell your hosting business and retire.

the sky isn't falling, lighten up.