has anyone ever heard of a card process or merchant service provider that requires the credit card number to initiate a refund?

We've just cancelled an order with a dedicated provider, and after paying (via this Ubersmith thing) we're now told we need to provide our credit card number for a refund to be made. What the...?

I'm assuming a few card processors can be used to plug in to Ubersmith, and that they are similar to that Revecom "mob"...in that a refund is just a push of a button?

Why would any provider need the whole card number (and in particular the card we used to order with...not the one we first offered for the refund) if they were never given it to start with (and are therefore using a third party processor I guess...)?

Considering the cancellation and refund was due to non delivery of the server to start with (no names), we're a little concerned.

Cheers

Gary

<my opinion>

That is a little sus mate. Im personally not one to throw around the idea of a chargeback, but would you rather give them your card number or issue a chargeback? I personally would go with the chargeback on this one myself. I wouldn't trust the company in question at all. Go with your gut feeling, if it doesn't seem right, its probably not.

</my opinion>

Thanks for your thoughts. I detest chargebacks, and hope to avoid that...so have given them a Paypal option. It just doesn't seem right....if they need a credit card number to credit surely it can be *any* credit card. If they are using someone like Revecom, 2checkout or similar behind their Ubersmith, then surely they have an option available to refund a transaction.

I guess this is where we have arrived at these days...not a whole lot of trust flying around. Sad.

Cheers

Gary

Probably they are redirecting Ubersmith to a payment gateway.
Why don't you ask them if giving the last 4 numbers of the credit card its enough?
Once and again, I do not recommend chargeback until you think that its the only way (not the easy).

I don't think they can issue a refund to a new card.. ( new as in wasn't used for the transaction ). We use worldpay and all we need to do for a refund is enter the amount, and click the button that says "refund". I would also ( as you do ) think the other 3rd party programs have a similar function.

Yep, if they need the full card to do a credit, surely they are using a third party processor. I want to know which one of the processors does not allow you to give refunds against a transaction...to add to the list of things not to recommend to anyone. This is just silly.

And now we've just been advised/insulted that "you could issue a chargeback on the original card, which would leave us out double the money". Far out...we're not the ones that failed to deliver the damn server.

Looks like it is going to be a chargeback after all.

Gary

Originally posted by Haze
I don't think they can issue a refund to a new card

They *can*. But they've chosen not to, in case we try to rob them back on the first card. :rolleyes:

Unbelievable.

Gary

We're crumbled under pressure and provided the original card for a refund. Hopefully it's a wise decision. I want to avoid a chargeback, because we're not trying to shaft the company involved...just pull out due to non delivery within their specified delivery time. Timing is important.

They were concerned that we were trying to shine a bad light on them in here. That's not the case. We're not naming names...just trying to work out if this is common practice with other processors/merchant providers as it hasn't been the case with the processors we have used.

Alls well that ends well (once we receive that refund).

/end rant

Gary

I know that when you go to the store for a refund on a credit card purchase, they ask you for the card.

It's probably the same thing.

Originally posted by Editor


They *can*. But they've chosen not to, in case we try to rob them back on the first card.

That's not true. Merchant account agreements expressly forbid issuing credits except back to the original card. A merchant cannot legally issue a refund to a different credit card. Nor can they legally issue a refund via check or via PayPal if the customer paid with a credit card. The only way that, by contract, they can issue a refund is to issue it back to the card that was used for the charge in the first place.

As an FYI, there would be no reason to submit the credit card number to another party using PayPal.

As an additional FYI, PayPal does have a REFUND feature that can be used within the first five days after a transaction has been completed. The refund can occur with no fees charged to the recipient.

I know of some bank eftpos systems including credit cards that need the card back (or number) to refund the money!

They have to re-enter the information in to the pos terminal and refund your card once it is swipped through in this case, keyed in.

Normaly this method is due to restrictions of the bank pos system or unorganised account practices by company involved in transaction!

Lets just hope its the first reason!

Kind regards all,

This was more of a learning experience for us, because as far as I know there's only two ways these things work (Paypal aside...it's unique in its own way). 1) they're using a third party processor and should have a Refund button in their admin area, and 2) they're a fully blown merchant and therefore should have the card number from the original transaction...if not what sort of system could they be using?

We expect the refund will be forthcoming. There's always the chargeback as a last reort. But I was interested in learning if this was a more common occurence than we were aware of.

Oh...and I am 2 days into giving up after 23 years of smoking...so nothing pleases me too much right now. :-)

Cheers

Gary

I bought a CD ROM recently which did not work with my computer, and requested a refund. I had to provide my full credit card number for this. As I see it, as long as you're giving it to them via a secure form or phone (not unsecure email), it's no big deal.

With bluepay, as we use for our merchant, they use the credit card number as the order number when supplying the refund.

So you do need to give them your credit card number to do the refund.

You have to provide the card for a few reasons:

1. To cover their butts, if they refund another card, theres nowhere they can state it's a refund, you can double cross them

2. If you dont provide then with the card number, how are they going to know which card to refund? Many dont store the information except on invoices piled deep in a desk drawer

3. If they refund another card, they might be accused of giving it a "cash advance" or something like that, which would get them in trouble with VISA, or whoever they're dealing with

Im sure theres other reasons too, like suspicion, etc. :)

Yep, I'm taking all of this advice onboard, as it has never been the case for us so we live and learn.

Cheers

Gary

Well they might be using an offline credit card processor.

I know the one that we use you need to enter the card number so it can send a refund back to the credit card.

I would take it as a good sign if they need it, that means they don't store credit card numbers anywhere.