I have noticed that a great deal of you have liked or loved what www.pixelbrick.com has done.

I think thats great! But, do any of you that are asking for designers to turn out work like Pixelbrick understand what goes into that design?

It takes countless hours and revesions to get something right. it takes a great deal of planning and understanding just how technology is going to delivery your vision to your audience.

A site of that quality would run several thousand dollars to several tens of thousands.

But, why are designers asked to build the Taj-Mahal for $50?

Dont take me wrong I'm not pissed or anything just wondering why people who are not designers suddenly become one when the designer hands back work?

If you find a designer that is willing to take the time and effort to build a Pixelbrick or www.2advanced.com clone for $50 then great you have done well.

All I ask is that when talking to a designer be realistic in the expectations and goals.

My ranting is done.

By the way, just an observation.......Flaming me is not needed and will not further any type of dialog.

Here here! Good comment, seen a few of those "make me this amazing site, but I will not pay more than $100 for it" messages. I cannot fathom the amount of work went into the pixelbrick site, I do some Flash on my own and I am very impressed by what they have done on their site.
I agree fully Tranz.

Originally posted by snikle
Here here! Good comment, seen a few of those "make me this amazing site, but I will not pay more than $100 for it" messages. Most of the sites that are being produced for $100 or $200 look like $100-200 sites. People might be asking for amazing sites at that price level, but they aren't getting them.

That doesn't mean that there aren't reasonably attractive, usable, professional-looking sites that cost a couple of hundred dollars. But those sites are in a different class from the high-end designs. And almost without exception when you look at them there's something familiar about them. You can't buy much inspired creativity for $100.

The fact is that sites that deservedly are priced in the $5,000-plus range take hundreds of hours of work. One person probably couldn't produce such a site, at least not without many months of work -- and it's a very rare developer that could do it even then.

Production of a high-end site typically takes more hours of work even before production of the site begins than the low-end site takes in it's entirety. But that is time spent in consultation with the clients to make sure the site does exactly what they want, on collaboration between designers to come up with an original look that communicates the client company's message effectively, on considering usability issues, on effective copywriting -- proofread and edited perhaps by someone with an actual English degree, on evaluating the balance between the users' needs and what's needed for search engine optimization -- all elements that go into making a killer site, but that are missing in the development process of 98% of the sites on the web. Followed then by actual production, and of course finally by more hours of usability testing and tweaking.

The low-end process? Tell your freelancer that you need a site for your hosting company. "Sure, I know what hosting sites need... I can do that for $200." So he looks at a few, grabs some images here and there, sees a site that looks nice from which to take "inspiration," and presto! A site as good as the average other site! ("Who cares if some people think those colors clash? I like them!") Add in some hastily-wriiten copy, maybe spell-checked but never thoroughly proofread. And of course when the site goes online no one but the designer and the client -- both of whom are very familiar with it -- have gone through the process or signing up, or finding key info in the faq, or figuring out how to compare various plans... so who knows whether actual visitors will find the site inviting?

And of course your designer read a few years ago about how those "meta tag" things are the way to "get into search engines," so you certainly will have lots of visitors!

And I agree with you completely as well, I was (and I think Tranz was) simply stating that people requesting websites need to be realistic in their approach to hiring web designers. You find someone doing sites for $200 and decided to hire them, don't be expecting a $5,000 site. I simply think people on the web need to be realistic about what x number of dollars can get you.

And to that point, most people and companies on the web today do not need a $5,000 site and a $200-$1k site will do.

You can't buy much inspired creativity for $100.
You might be amazed at some of the stuff you can find online, I have seen some great stuff offered up for almost nothing on the web.

Ahhh, I remember the good old days when I was asked to build a site, it took 4 months and costed the client $80,000.

I was handed ALL of the content (text) on a burned cd with hard copy that had already been approved by legal and proofread.

I remember when I could go grab images and then tell the client that the imagery was going to cost $5000 and they just cut a check.

I can remember when there were account execs that just hired me and then I spoke to a knowledgable Creative Dir that understood the web what it could do and what it couldnt.

I used to talk to clients that had people on staff that believed that making the site usable for the end user was the goal instead of trying to see what THEY wanted on the screen totaly, disregarding the user.

I remember when clients thought you knew more then they did and looked to you for your input. (thats why they hired you in the first place!) They have admited they CANT design so they hired you the designer to come up with a design and when you did they loved it. Not the, I know what looks good (from Mr. client)


Ahhhh, the good old days of design....

Your that old eh. :D

EASY :)

Yeah, all of 31...I have been desiging longer then some people have been loging on..

But, the times I am refrencing were only 2 years ago. When start-ups had $30m in first round funding and were blowing through VC money like it was water.

Hmmmm, maybe thats why a lot of them arent here anymore..lol

I agree Tranz...people want the best for the cheapest...but it ain't gonna happen...
However, I also don't like designers who will over-charge a person...I've been to a few designer's sites that have prices written...And I was amazed....2000-2500 for a 5-7 page site...NO intense programming (php, cgi, asp, etc...), just static pages...
And these places just totally take advantage of the lack of knowledge that most have of the internet...charging 50 dollars to add a midi to the site (which BTW has to be provided by the client). It just angers me...to see designers ripping people off...

Just my $0.02

How much do you think that pixelbrick charge for 3 pages?
Not less than $2.500
And I think that it worth. I love their job.

When I made my comment about design companies charging to much, I didn't mean pixel brick. Pixel Brick does exceptional work... I meant other design companies, ones that are in no comparison to pixelbrick... :)

Oh-Well.. of course I wont pay $2.5K for a crappy design :)
Who will pay it?

You wouldn't but you'd be surprised at those who would...

Since the dot.com crisis I dont see a reason to pay over 1k for a site. a lot of design companies will do more than enough for 1k.
Over 1k is truly important only if companies attract most, or a big part of their cotumers through internet representations IMO. If your design is not crappy and your company has nothing to do with online products, or online impressions, a decent layout wont scare off the costumers. with the extra 1.5k dollars you can buy all your workers coffee and improve inside-company relations :)

just my 2 pixels.

Ok.. Don't flame me.. I am also a designer.. and a local design company designed a clone of 2advanced.com. Their website is http://www.netknock.com.pk

When I ringed them up and asked them the price they would charge me for designing such a site, they asked me 100$

That's it? I think just because of these fools, the design market is going economically down. :(


Salam,
-Omair

Unable to determine IP address from host name for www.netknock.com.pk

? out of business?

Yeah.. May be. And most of all, a local magazine reviewed their website and portfolio and had appraised their designers.. But someone later told them that it was a clone of 2advanced.com

huuuuh! this is all net-world is about!



Salam,
-Omair

Where is the 2advanced clone?

If your are referring to this, http://www.softknock.net/, as their 2advanced clone...you need to get your eyes checked...

Originally posted by Tranz
Ahhh, I remember the good old days when I was asked to build a site, it took 4 months and costed the client $80,000.

I was handed ALL of the content (text) on a burned cd with hard copy that had already been approved by legal and proofread.

I remember when I could go grab images and then tell the client that the imagery was going to cost $5000 and they just cut a check.

I can remember when there were account execs that just hired me and then I spoke to a knowledgable Creative Dir that understood the web what it could do and what it couldnt.

I used to talk to clients that had people on staff that believed that making the site usable for the end user was the goal instead of trying to see what THEY wanted on the screen totaly, disregarding the user.

I remember when clients thought you knew more then they did and looked to you for your input. (thats why they hired you in the first place!) They have admited they CANT design so they hired you the designer to come up with a design and when you did they loved it. Not the, I know what looks good (from Mr. client)


Ahhhh, the good old days of design....

Don't worry. We're going to find 'em ... we will find 'em amigo.

Originally posted by Tranz
Ahhh, I remember the good old days when I was asked to build a site, it took 4 months and costed the client $80,000.

I was handed ALL of the content (text) on a burned cd with hard copy that had already been approved by legal and proofread.

I remember when I could go grab images and then tell the client that the imagery was going to cost $5000 and they just cut a check.

I can remember when there were account execs that just hired me and then I spoke to a knowledgable Creative Dir that understood the web what it could do and what it couldnt.

I used to talk to clients that had people on staff that believed that making the site usable for the end user was the goal instead of trying to see what THEY wanted on the screen totaly, disregarding the user.

I remember when clients thought you knew more then they did and looked to you for your input. (thats why they hired you in the first place!) They have admited they CANT design so they hired you the designer to come up with a design and when you did they loved it. Not the, I know what looks good (from Mr. client)


Ahhhh, the good old days of design....

Those were the dot com days when clueless execs paid outrageous sums of money just to get in on the hype. Those fantasy days are over.

I understand that. Yet, in some cases they did hire people that knew what they were talking about.

They had the idea and in some cases the funding to back it up.

As for not paying more than $2k for a design..lol How do you figure?

If the site is huge with a lot of front, middle and backend. It will cost.

agree

Originally posted by iamdave
If your are referring to this, http://www.softknock.net/, as their 2advanced clone...you need to get your eyes checked...