I have been getting many emails from people saying that RackShack now should be put onto the UnlimBand site because they are offering Un-metered bandwidth.

I did notice that they are saying you are on a 10MBPS connection, but I really want your opinions on this topic. Are they advertising false info with Un-Metered or do you think it is okay that they say you will get 10MBPS port, meaning you get metered to 10MBPS?


Jim

Jim -- that's correct, they mean you will be unmetered to 10mbps. Which is not unlimited, simply that you are limited by the available port speed. This is a common practice with larger hosting providers, that will limit you only by the port speed.

The difference, of course, is that larger providers generally have more bandwidth, and they generally don't have 6,000+ servers in the data center.

That is complete crap! There is a huge difference between offering a dedicated server with an unmetered dedicated port, and a shared hosting plan offering unmetered bandwidth. Rackshack is simply stating that you have a full 10mb port available to you. You are not sharing that 10mb with anyone else, therefore you have as much bandwidth as your little server can pump out. On a shared server (or even a shared port), you can not state the same, because your neighbor could be using 90% of the available bandwidth themselves.

Edit: I was typing this as uuallan posted. This is not directed at his statements

-Dan

guys, Im not siding against RS or with them, I just wanted to pose the question to people, to get the best direction on this matter. Remember, I already have atleast 30 submittions about RS, some saying list them, some defending them.

I dont want this to be a huge flaming war, because im sure some people will say otherwise.

So, lets just TRY to get along:D :D


Jim

Who's not getting along? We both stated virtually the same thing. "That is complete crap!" was directed at the fact that people are trying to compare this to some hokey unlimited bandwidth offer.

-Dan

There's no false advertising involved. They let you use the full 10 mbps, which is about 3 terabytes of bandwidth per month.

Originally posted by serve-you
Who's not getting along?


I was just stating that for future reference to people.


Jim

Is it just a 10Mb unmetered connection, or is it a dedicated 10Mb connection?

At 10Mb Dedicated, that's $39,900 / month per Gigabit. I don't think that even comes close to paying for the cost of a Gigabit connection.

If it's shared, that's cool as long as they don't grossly oversell it. Who's really going to come close to pushing 10Mb non-stop anyway? And those that do will likely not be the norm. It's piece of mind knowing they'll never charge you for going over your monthly alotment, since technically you cannot.

The bottom line seems to be that they will never charge you for extra usage, and they are committing themselves to providing a service at a great cost. I don't see any false advertising there.

No, they say 10MBPS, so you they aren't doing False Advertising.

I'm tempted.

Let's go back to the original reason why "unlimited bandwidth" is bad: False advertising. We say that "unlimited bandwidth" is bad because it is impossible, and thus false advertising.

Is Rackshack's 10Mbps deal false advertising? Maybe. It's possible that they'll not have enough bandwidth provisioned to support it; it's possible that they will have enough bandwidth provisioned. Until it has been running for a few months, we can't say. What we can say is that what they are advertising is not impossible.

There is no reason to blacklist them.

Un-metered is un-metered. You (Unlimband) have maintain a list of sites that advertise un-metered bandwidth. Rackshack advertises un-metered bandwidth. Therefor, why shouldn't they be added to the list? Regaurdless of the fact that it says 10 mbps below it, they still advertise un-metered bandwidth to play with (potential) customers' minds. Essentially, they are advertising two different things, since un-metered and 10 mbps are two different things. The way I see this is it is the same thing as saying un-metered bandwidth and right below it saying xx gigs per month, except per second is just a smaller time frame. Which is also the same as putting un-metered on your home page and putting xx gigs per month in the aup or tos. I say they should be added to the list.

**Un-Metered 10 mbps Network Connection**
How is this "two different things"? They are advertising an unmetered 10 mbps connection. All that means is that you have a full 10 mb switch port available to you. Meaning no other server is sharing your port on the switch, and you can use it to it's full extent with out being charged for overages.

It does not say that you have a 10 mbps connection to at&t or uunet or any other provider. It is a 10 mbps network connection, not internet.

-Dan

Kyle, I think you are confusing un-metered with un-limited. They say here's 10Mb, go to town, we're not watching. I think the spirit of unlimband is in regards to those who are saying "unlimited bandwidth" and then in small print in their buried TOS they say "not to excede" or "any usage over x is billed at $49.95 per bit."

RS is clearly stating 10Mb un-metered, and you extract the terms it can generally be read as "Anything up to and including 10 million bits per second sustained." They drop the concern for managing it by not allowing you to burst beyond 10Mb, hence the 10Mb port and not a single nybble more.

There don't appear to be any hidden charges or hidden agenda's here so it is all written with good intent, not to screw the customer. Or am I not reading it clearly?

Originally posted by serve-you

How is this "two different things"? They are advertising an unmetered 10 mbps connection. All that means is that you have a full 10 mb switch port available to you. Meaning no other server is sharing your port on the switch, and you can use it to it's full extent with out being charged for overages.

It does not say that you have a 10 mbps connection to at&t or uunet or any other provider. It is a 10 mbps network connection, not internet.

-Dan

Because there is no such thing as un-metered 10 mbps. 10 mbps is metered at 10 mbps.

Originally posted by Kyle Babich


Because there is no such thing as un-metered 10 mbps. 10 mbps is metered at 10 mbps.
I think you have your terms mistaken. Metered means that your bandwidth usage is monitored, and you have a certain limit as to how much you can use. Unmetered means that your usage is not monitored, & you have the full connection available to you.

-Dan

Originally posted by Kyle Babich
Because there is no such thing as un-metered 10 mbps. 10 mbps is metered at 10 mbps.

If they were running 100Mbps ethernet and using traffic shapers to limit each server to 10Mbps, I'd agree. But I don't think that's what they're doing -- from the sound of it, they're running 10Mbps ethernet.

It isn't unlimited, but it is unmetered... nobody is sitting there counting bits, they're just trusting in the fact that ten megabit ethernet can't carry more than ten megabits per second of traffic.

I get so sick of people confusing "unlimited" with "unmetered". That is what is crap. They are two seperate things! If someone has some intelligent point to make why they are the same, then do a search and add to the numerous threads already posted about this.

Jimb, the answer is simple unless you plan on being a hypocryte. Your site blacklist anyone offering "unlimited" (which is good) AND "unmetered". Rackshack *uses* the word unmetered, so in theory, anyone using the term should be included. Either that, or you remove you unmetered BS or add a caveat for companies like RS. Eitherway, you are selectivally excluding some uses of the word and blacklisting others.

That is complete crap! There is a huge difference between offering a dedicated server with an unmetered dedicated port, and a shared hosting plan offering unmetered bandwidth.

Of course. However it is a matter of principal and use of a Term.

Let's just agree to disagree. You think it's acceptable, I don't. We'll end it there.

I do agree with that statement UmBillyCord, it is a matter of principle. So in that respect, Yes, Rackshack should be "blacklisted". As they are offering an unmetered connection.

-Dan

Let's just agree to disagree. You think it's acceptable, I don't. We'll end it there.

Kyle, I am not attacking your belief, your opinion is yours, and mine is mine. We are both welcome to them. Facts are facts however. Dont mix up the two.
:beer:

-Dan

From my understanding of the blacklist, yes they should be blacklisted. As to the false advertising question, if they can provide that then so be it. There is no way to have an infinite connection, so if 10 mbps is their maximum capacity then they aren't false advertising. Look up metered. They are not controlling it or watching over you, they are giving you as much as they can.

I agree it is not false advertising as they clearly state 10 mbps unmetered connection. Unmetered and Unlimited are 2 totally different animals. I voted "NO".

Originally posted by DizixCom
At 10Mb Dedicated, that's $39,900 / month per Gigabit. I don't think that even comes close to paying for the cost of a Gigabit connection.

Cogent GigE = $20,000/month

Cogent GigE = $20,000/monthI stand corrected!

I don't think they are false advertising.
So, I agree with UmBillyCord and serve-you in this case.

rant/But jealousy from some host might bring this thread to flame../rant

I see no reason for them to be blacklisted since they are clearly stating what the limits are. Their headline reads:

Un-Metered
**10 mbps Network Connection**

All in bold red, equal size font.

Surely the blacklisting is for those companies who offer "unmetered" and say nothing else about it, which perhaps to some would imply "unlimited". I don't think anyone could imagine rackshack were implying unlimited

Surely the blacklisting is for those companies who offer "unmetered" and say nothing else about it, which perhaps to some would imply "unlimited". I don't think anyone could imagine rackshack were implying unlimited

Blacklisting anyone who advertises "unmetered" is retarded as you are blacklisting something that no one can prove can not be done. How can you prove that unmetered (not billing for bandwidth - no overage fees) can not be done?

So I don't think anyone unmetered should be on ethe list.

You shouldn't blacklist things just for the sake of blacklisting things. There has to be a reason to do so.

I do not think a shared unmetered plan for $10/mo compares to a unmetered 10Mbps dedicated server offer. I do not think they are the same thing.

Cell phone carrier offers 'free' unlimited weekend minutes.

You are saying, "AH-HA! They don't offer unlimited minutes!"

No, they aren't, but you I think the general rule of thumb here is that you read past the unlimted word to the end of the offer. Unlimted weekend minutes. How many minutes in a weekend per month? Do the math. Let's base it on 4 weekends/mo even though that's not entirely accurate, just for the sake of getting a number.

60 minutes/hr. x 48 hours = 2880
2880 x 4 weekends = 11520

Now, one has to be intelligent enough to realize that you aren't going to be able to get more 'free' minutes than 11,520 per month. Yes, they say unlimited, but the boundries are clearly stated and I can't think there's someone who would think they'd be able to get more than 11,520 'free' minutes on this plan. Anyone? Anyone? So we're in agreement.

But they sayyyyy unlimited... :rolleyes:


Now, if I offer you a server on an unmetered 10 Mbps line, am I regulating your usage in any way that you don't understand? Do you expect to get 11, 12, 13 Mbps? Do you expect to get more than what is clearly offered? Do you have any question as to what is being offered?

Now sign me up for an unmetered shared hosting plan. Are you clear as to what you are getting? Do you feel that so long as you don't tip the server resources (determined however, generally vague at best), you would be able to get 10, 11, 12, 100 Mbps+ for $10/mo.? Likely, no. Possible? I suppose.

Keep in mind that most (if not all) unmetered plans are *not* limited to 10 Mbps, as with the dedicated offer from RS. I've never seen this stated at least on any site.

If you have a high transfer site, for the reasons that most people have high transfer sites, can you honestly say that an unlimited or unmetered host is the obvious and first place a person should look? From what I've seen, it is generally the last place one should look. In general (and I'm not talking about any *one* specific host or offer), the reason your site is high transfer excludes you (due to the TOS of the host) from using these services. Hence, what's the point?

I'm not saying you shouldn't go with an unlimted/unmetered host. If your site uses large amounts of transfer and bandwidth, then by all means look into it. Check the TOS of the provider to see if you qualify. If so, go for it.

I'm not trying to favor one provider over another. No hidden agenda or conspiracies. I'm simply calling it as I see it.e if you qualify. If so, go for it.

Point made chicken, once again you come to the rescue :D

Originally posted by DizixCom
Is it just a 10Mb unmetered connection, or is it a dedicated 10Mb connection?

At 10Mb Dedicated, that's $39,900 / month per Gigabit. I don't think that even comes close to paying for the cost of a Gigabit connection.

If it's shared, that's cool as long as they don't grossly oversell it. Who's really going to come close to pushing 10Mb non-stop anyway? And those that do will likely not be the norm. It's piece of mind knowing they'll never charge you for going over your monthly alotment, since technically you cannot.

The bottom line seems to be that they will never charge you for extra usage, and they are committing themselves to providing a service at a great cost. I don't see any false advertising there.

The odds are that it is shared in the sense that you are on the same pipe as other customers... only you are allocated 10mbps of pipe and are guaranteed this amount 24/7.

This is not a new phenomenon. ISPs and datacenters do this all of the time. It isn't a question as to whether or not they are overselling. So long as their network isn't saturated that 10mbps is always going to be 10mbps.

The what ifs can go on forever. Yes what if every customer decided to peak their line at the same precise moment. What if, what if, what if.

This is a great deal and those compaqs are rock solid.

..and I'll add that I'm not trying to be argumentative for the sake of being argumenative. Umbilly has had some very valid points in many threads regarding hosts' offers in general, such as unlimited emails, etc.

Let's face it, what the customer doesn't often realize is that this is a tough wishy washy business. It isn't like when you go to the grocery store and buy an apple. There you see the price, you pay for your apple, you get your apple and that's about all there is to the economics of single apple buying.

Even with limited accounts, you are basically saying that you, BobMcAppleBuyer, can take home up to 10,000 apples per month for a fee of $500. This works fine and people buy your apple memberships, coming in for apples all month long, taking 100 or so every day. Sure most people think it is a good deal, and they only take 1-2,000 apples per given month.

But you, JimMcAppleSeller, screw yourself when DaveMcAppleBuyer buys a membership and suddenly takes all 10,000 in one day. Doesn't work so well when you only really had 15,000 in stock and your other buyers come for apples and you run out. Unhappy AppleBuyers.

To be fair to the buyers and the seller, everyone should be limited (as in throttled) a certain amount per day or week, so that no problems arise, or everyone should be charged the full price of 10,000 apples/month (100 percentile). Obviously no one wants this, the price would be too high or the high volume buyers left short, so we play the game a bit.

We play the game but I don't think it is wise to play the game without limits. $500 for as many apples as you can take in a month is asking for trouble. Sure you can say, no pickup trucks, no station wagons, no large vehicles of any kind for apple hauling, etc., and limit it so that only a select few who are willig to spend all day, every day, driving apples up and back can take advantage of your 'as many apples as you want' offer, but...

I thought I'd talk about something other than host stuff :D I now wish you a very happy good night as I retire thinking of yummy apple pie, mmmmmm.

Maybe the "blacklist" shouldn't be so knee-jerky when it comes across the words "unmetered" or "unlimited."

The real issue is DECEPTION. The real problem is with hosts who sell you on unlimited this or that, but then effectively rescind the unlimitedness in subchapter 19a of the AUP -- which they know you aren't going to read, even though they tell you to. Rackshack isn't doing anything like that.

I know thinking is underrated these days, but believe it or not, it actually works.

Originally posted by jimb
I have been getting many emails from people saying that RackShack now should be put onto the UnlimBand site because they are offering Un-metered bandwidth.

I did notice that they are saying you are on a 10MBPS connection, but I really want your opinions on this topic. Are they advertising false info with Un-Metered or do you think it is okay that they say you will get 10MBPS port, meaning you get metered to 10MBPS?


Jim

I cant find out exactly what your point is? they are selling an unmetered 10mbps port. i.e. they will connect your server at 10mbps and not charge you for whatever you can drag from it. why on earth do you think this is comparable to selling unlimited which cannot exist, unlimited cannot exist and is miss selling. unmetered is what you get when they connect you at x mbps and ignore your useage because your physically limited. do you advocate putting every telco that offers leased lines in the slammer? thats how it works. rackshack have the size to make this work. theyve provenover andover again they can push the limits. theres so overselling involved but if it got to the point it affected the service then they would have to rectify it or face getting a bad rep.
i honestly cannot see what the fuss is about. theyre making money. theyre delivering what they offer. its a good oppertunity. you cannot go around stomping feet and chucking yer toys out of yer pram because theyre offering something that lots of other people offer. how many hosters offer fixed pipes into the back of the server? quite a few. you going to add all them.

Originally posted by richy
unlimited cannot exist and is miss selling

Jim is faced with the dilemma that he has posted his take on unmetered to his site, and makes a clear distinction between the two with a separate list of hosts who advertise "unmetered".

(probably to satisfy those who debated not so long ago that there was no difference, really...and that it needs bringing to the attention of the unsuspecting client anyway)

So what now for those other "unmetered" hosts on Jim's list? What about those who support his site who want him to add RS to retain their support?

Technicalities aside, Jim's site is about making a statement. It's not about anything else other than those hosts who advertise "unlimited" and/or "unmetered", and warning people out about the potential problems.

That's my opinion anyway.

Cheers

Gary

Just like saying that rackshack meter you to 10mbps you can say that other hosts, in their terms, meter you to a certain amount of CPU resources.
If you find rackshacks explanations a good reason not to put them on the unmetred list, you should recheck ALL of your hosts in the unmetred list. You cant just boycott a host from the list because he is a crowd favourite. We all knows explanations of unmetered, or some kind of other measuring is not the reason. Just like RackShacks deal says you are unmetered untill you reach 10mbps, other hosts say you are unmetered untill you reach xxx amount of cpu usage. It doesnt matter if rachshack physically have a metering measure (such as a 10mbps card) or not, its still metering the unmetred. just like all the other hosts.
just my 2 cents.

I really don't see what the big deal is. Rackshack claims an unmetered 10mbps connection. Basically this provides a theoretical maximum of ~3208GB of transfer per month, assuming you can saturate the 10mb connection for the entire month.

Perhaps the question becomes, is this possible? How is their network setup? Are they running multiple 10mbps connections into a 100mbps uplink to possibly a 1gbps uplink to the router? Is the entire network for these boxes sharing a maximum 10mbps connection? The network infrastructure plays an important role in determining the apparently validity of the claim.

I suppose technically their advertising is not deceiving and perhaps should have a special section on the site regarding these types of offers stating what the offer means and what a buyer should know. This is not false advertising like the unlimited offers condradicted by the TOS. This is simply an area that appears to be rather blurry to consumers (and apparently many individuals involved in the industry) and as a public service, be mentioned, but not blacklisted.

Originally posted by bigmattyh
Maybe the "blacklist" shouldn't be so knee-jerky when it comes across the words "unmetered" or "unlimited."

The real issue is DECEPTION. The real problem is with hosts who sell you on unlimited this or that, but then effectively rescind the unlimitedness in subchapter 19a of the AUP -- which they know you aren't going to read, even though they tell you to. Rackshack isn't doing anything like that.

I know thinking is underrated these days, but believe it or not, it actually works.
With Matt on this one.

As I said... You don't add a phone carrier just because they state in big letters on the front page UNLIMITED weekend minutes. Is the offer misleading, deceptive, or otherwise simply not possible or highly unprobable (to the point of being nearly impossible). Add a host to the list, but have a reason for it, and state why they are added to the list.

I don't think every mention of the word unlimted/unmetered is automatically a cue to add them (as Matt said above, "thinking is underrated these days, but believe it or not, it actually works"). We've seen unlimted hosts flashing UNLIMITED on the front page and then 'defining' unlimited as this or that (not unlimited), or hidden in the TOS, "Unlimited is up to 2 GB of transfer a month".

There is something very wrong about that, and without question, I firmly believe that that host deserves to be listed on a web site that warns people (in their opinion) not to sign up with them.

Originally posted by jimb
. . . . . . Are they advertising false info with Un-Metered or do you think it is okay that they say you will get 10MBPS port, meaning you get metered to 10MBPS?


Jim I think it's just fine.

*Hoping other's follow their lead. :D

Originally posted by bigmattyh
Maybe the "blacklist" shouldn't be so knee-jerky when it comes across the words "unmetered" or "unlimited."

The real issue is DECEPTION. The real problem is with hosts who sell you on unlimited this or that, but then effectively rescind the unlimitedness in subchapter 19a of the AUP -- which they know you aren't going to read, even though they tell you to. Rackshack isn't doing anything like that.

I know thinking is underrated these days, but believe it or not, it actually works.



This is about the best post I have seen related to jimb's site. His site stereotypes beyond belief! If I was raised on the playground to play hoop and I walk on and see some white guys playing. Is it OK for me to exclude them because "white men can't jump". Just because they are white I now need to blacklist them from picking them for my team. The point can be made with unmetered. It is a Term, nothing more. It CAN be done in the sense it says unmetered = NO overage fees/billing. So to dump RS in there is wrong. To have other host placed in their is wrong WITHOUT proof that "white guy can't jump". (PS - this example was based of a movie and that stereotype)

Here is what I think. The only unmetered host who get added are those that GET complaints where a customer can *validate* they were lied too. Then the host, if they even know your site exist, can reply. This is fair. Right now, what you have is a witch hunt set up by people who are out to bash competitors or are jealous competitors.

Now unlimited is different. The Term itself is a lie, so of course that word is false.

How else are they supposed to say that you have a 10Mb connection, and you can use it to its full capacity without being billed per GB? Unmetered says it all in one word.

If you're going to add RackShack to your blacklist for offering unmetered 10Mb connections, you might as well add every ISP offering you your own unmetered T-1 or similar connection.

If you want to add all of them, go right ahead, it would definitely still be a list of those offering unlimited or unmetered. But I think that you would lose what you were trying to achieve with the list.

How else are they supposed to say that you have a 10Mb connection, and you can use it to its full capacity without being billed per GB? Unmetered says it all in one word.

Actually a "Dedicated 10 Mbps connection" better describes it.

not it doesnt. our servers have dedicated 100mbps connections. doesnt anywhere in there say anything about price for bandwidth. i could offer dedicated 100mbps and charge for bandwidth.
unmetered 10mbps says it perfectly. just that. 10mbps drop yours to use as you see fit. as much or as little as you want. no charge other than the rental for the bandwidth.

not it doesnt. our servers have dedicated 100mbps connections. doesnt anywhere in there say anything about price for bandwidth. i could offer dedicated 100mbps and charge for bandwidth.

I guess that is true as some people just have to have little everything spelled out exactly or they just don't get it. If this were not the case, Terms and contracts wouldn't be so big.

RackShack are offering an unmetered 10mbps ethernet port. In other words, they are offering you a 10mbps port where they are not metering your traffic. I do not see anything wrong this this. In fact, if they said "dedicated 10mbps port", that would give me the impression that I would have to pay for bandwidth on this dedicated port.

They are offering what they say they are offering. This is not false advertising, and not to be mixed up with hosts offering "unlimited bandwidth" on virtual accounts.

Alright, I have read over every post in this thread, and have come to this decision.

We include a "blacklist" of companies who use false advertising of Unmetered and Unlimited without certain "hard numbers." The way I see it, RS is using the word Unmetered, but are also saying that you are metered by the switch speed of 10MBPS.


It seems that the opinion to blacklist them is not what a majority of this forum would like to see UnlimBand do. Therefore, until further notice, RackShack will be excluded from the blacklist until someone can point out that they are false in their advertising, or they change their plans.


Jim

yup , you have to assume everyone is an idiot and needs complete handholding the entire time. as put before theyre giving exactly what they are offering a 10mbps port for your use with no other charges for bandwidth. i cant understand what reason people have to bash them so much, apart from professional jellousy.

just read your post jimb , excellent decision.

Originally posted by jimb
We include a "blacklist" of companies who use false advertising of Unmetered and Unlimited without certain "hard numbers." The way I see it, RS is using the word Unmetered, but are also saying that you are metered by the switch speed of 10MBPS.

You may be LIMITED to 10MBPS, but you are not METERED to 10MBPS. The two are very different in this situation. Assume this is like the electricity line in your house. You are metered per kilowatt hour. You are limited to the capacity of the line. What they are saying is they took the electric meters off the house so you are not metered. You are limited however to the size of the line that enters your house.

Originally posted by jw


You may be LIMITED to 10MBPS, but you are not METERED to 10MBPS. The two are very different in this situation. Assume this is like the electricity line in your house. You are metered per kilowatt hour. You are limited to the capacity of the line. What they are saying is they took the electric meters off the house so you are not metered. You are limited however to the size of the line that enters your house.

Actually, they probably do mean metered. Most modern switches ahve 10/100 and Gig ports. Since the ports can be 10 or 100 they do have to set the port speed on the switch to 10, in order to offer a 10 meg connection -- otherwise it may autonegotiate to 100. Going by your example, this would be considered metered.

We include a "blacklist" of companies who use false advertising of Unmetered

Jimb, let me ask you one question.

How can a company advertising 'unmetered" be classified as false adverting when you or no one else has attempted to prove that host on the blacklist has done so? Explain how a company saying we offer unmetered bandwidth which means no overage fees for BW is false adverting.


Please don't come back with an inide the box reply of how "unmetered = unlimited - thats why".

Thanks.

PS - I am glad you are opening up to the Term. RS shouldn't be on your blacklist.

I think in this instance "Unmetered" is being used where it is actually meant to be used. If you are going to ad RackShack to the list just because the word appears on there site, you might want to add us as well (Heck, I wouldn't mind the free advertising). And when your done that, go on to google and do a search for "unlimited" and "unmetered" and add all of them as well.

Jim

If you are not going to black list RS for using the term "unmeter", what about the other companies you black listed who do use the term?!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: Why should those companies get the honor of being on your list when they use the term "unmeter" in advertising and how are their "unmeter" service more misleading than RS?! Oh, I see could it be that we are caving under peer pressure, hypocrite!

Bottom line:
If you are not going to black list RS for using the term "unmeter" than you should NOT black list the other companies who do the same. :emlaugh:


Peace

Originally posted by Blazing
If you are not going to black list RS for using the term "unmeter", what about the other companies you black listed who do use the term

The arguement here is that the other companies are misleading, which they are. RackShack quite obviously state "Un-Metered
**10 mbps Network Connection**". That is not misleading at all and the statement represents exactly what they provide. The whole point of UnlimBand.com is to provide a list of hosts that mislead there clients.. in this case there is no misleading at all. RackShack are providing a 10 Mbit connection for you to use all to your self, they do not limit it. Its in plain english here folks.. Like I said, if your going to add RS add me to that list as well.

This whole thread is a crock of shi*. If people to your little site dont know what an Unmetered 10Mbit port(AKA 10Mbit CAPPED PORT) which you can get from any telco/isp out there you have alot of companies to ad to your list. You can get a 10Mbit port from verio,level3,uunet,etc. etc. You buy the WHOLE port(Pay for all10Mbit even thou you may not use it just to get a cheaper rate) and there is NO metering of your bandwidth, IE no 95% tile. RS is selling this Exact feature at a highly discounted rate just like everything else they offer. So whats the big fuss? Get over it, move on.

The whole point of UnlimBand.com is to provide a list of hosts that mislead there clients..

Really???

1) Is unmetered possible? Yes.
2) Do people confuse the word with unlimited? Yes.
3) Is the word unlimited the SAME as unmetered? No.
4) Do *some* people use the Term unmetered to mislead? Yes.
5) If unmetered is possible and some DO NOT use the Term to mislead, then is it right to blacklist just for use of a term? NO!

Unlimiband needs to take the time to validate their listing of unmetered host. If customers say hostxyz lied, then add them. However adding host just for the sake of Term use is BS.



This is my first post on the subject of unmetered, so bare with me. :)

"Unmetered" isn't even a real word. Who came up with it in the first place?

It may not be in the dictionary, but metered is (to supply in a measured or regulated amount), and un- means 'not'. While a dictionary lists most of the base (root) words, it may not list all base words with every prefix or suffix added. Unchewed isn't in the dictionary either, and others, which I don't have time to look for.

It probably isn't proper to add un- to every verb in order to form an adjective (such as 'unrun' to describe a race that was cancelled), and sometimes you'd just say, "Not metered", but I don't think the application of un- to metered is improper.

"Unmetered" isn't even a real word. Who came up with it in the first place?

Nether was "dude", "d'oh", "cyber", and about a million other words that were slowly added to the English dictionary.

The funny thing, Rackshack would not even care if their site is being blacklisted on unlimiband ... With 4000+ servers, and perharps thousands if not ten of thousands other virtual host clients, it won't even do any harm for them!

How big is unlimiband.com anyway? Do you guys get 1 million page views/monthly?

cheers,
:beer:

Originally posted by jimb
Therefore, until further notice, RackShack will be excluded from the blacklist until someone can point out that they are false in their advertising, or they change their plans.

No, no, no. Don't let the mere opinions of the people on this board sway you. You don't want to develop a reputation as someone who makes his decisions based on however the popular wind is blowing.

Look, don't you agree that what you're really protecting against is fraud and deception, plain and simple? I think you might be over-zealous in your crusade to expose any and all hosts who offer unlimited or unmetered anything.

I am perplexed; how can somebody has a hard time differentiating between unmetered and unlimited?

The water running into my house is unmetered, for sure. Nobody even bother to put a meter measuring the water flow and nobody has charges me for using too much water. But it does not mean I am going to get unlimited supply of water, as much as I want to (hoping to drain great lakes) because there is a limited amount of water flow rate that can flow through my water pipes.

And people still think unmetered=unlimited? Wonder ... :rolleyes:

cheers,
:beer:

1) Where do you live that you don't have a water meter?
2) Would you mind if I ran a hose from your house to mine?

lol i live in the uk and my houses arent metered but some others are. such a scam. its not like they pay for the stuff, it falls out of the sky,

In the case of virtual hosting, you can not offer unmetered as the pipe is too big compared to how much you are paying. However in terms of dedicated connectivity, it is quite possible (and RackShack are doing it right now).

AFAIK, every dialup ISP in the country is offering unmetered 56k dialup lines. And most cable modem and xDSL operators do the same.

Unmetered is not unlimited. However I think the fact that some people are getting it wrong is the fault of a couple of virtual hosts offering "unmetered" traffic on virtual hosted sites. As I already said above, this is not possible because in this case the user does not have his own pipe. So you can't offer him unmetered bandwidth.

But again, in the case of dialup Internet access, or RackShack's 10mbps port, the user has his own pipe so the provider can choose to not meter it.

Originally posted by bigmattyh
1) Where do you live that you don't have a water meter?

We're in Brisbane, Queensland, Australia. Our estate is not metered, however the entire council is just about to start to be installed with meters. So it has been easy street until now, but that's about to change.

Cheers

Gary

Originally posted by bigmattyh
1) Where do you live that you don't have a water meter?


Connecticut

2) Would you mind if I ran a hose from your house to mine?

Since I do not pay for the water, nope .... But then, I don't know you, so why should I? ;)

cheers,
:beer:

I really don't see what is so confusing, un-metered to me just says that noone is going to be checking the switches to see how much bandwidth I am using up for the purpose of billing me. The 10mbps says to me that sure I can send all the traffic I want, but if I reach my port speed then I am going to have some angry customers who can't access their sites.

I think that their use of the term is exactly in-line with what they are trying to provide. However if it starts causing their network to slow down because they are reaching their port speeds with their provider, I will be the first one to launch www.HostsThatOversellTheirBandwidth.com or www.HostsThatTakeTheDotOutOfDotCom.com

= Tradmark Pending =

:D :D :D

In the case of virtual hosting, you can not offer unmetered as the pipe is too big compared to how much you are paying.

This makes no sense. How is a 10 Mbps drop going to a dedicated server different then one going to a shared server? In my DC they are the same connections.

Unmetered is not unlimited. However I think the fact that some people are getting it wrong is the fault of a couple of virtual hosts offering "unmetered" traffic on virtual hosted sites. As I already said above, this is not possible because in this case the user does not have his own pipe. So you can't offer him unmetered bandwidth.

Can you please explain why not? It has nothing to do with not having your own line. It is all about *billing*. Again, if someone says "Unmetered = no bill for overage", then how is it not possible? No one is saying you get "unlimited use".

Wrong though process:
unmetered use = unlimited use

Correct one:
unmetered = no overage fees - limited use. Whether it is hard number on resources, the max pipe size, whatever.

Hey UmBillyCord,

Let me see if I can put it another way, just to clarify things to those who think that unmetered == unlimited.

A web host can decide to bill based on any number of factors -- including transfer, disk space, etc -- and offers any of those as part of their service plan.

The most common billing method, of course, is for a webhost to allot you a set amount of disk space, and a set amount of transfer. He will also charge you if you exceed your accounts limits on either of these. But keep in mind, this is just the most common method of billing -- not the fixed-in-stone gold standard.

A webhost could, conceivably, bill based on your account's CPU usage. Or he could bill based on the number of files in your account. Or he could bill for each unique visitor to your site. Or he could bill for every hit.

Now, I think we'd agree that do to some of the aforementioned things would be to set up a business scheme that would probably not work in the end, due primarily to the fact that your client base would consist almost entirely of newbies who have no hopes of increasing their site's size or popularity.

However, the point is that a webhost can set up ANY BILLING METHOD he wants -- and as long as the numbers add up, service is strong, and both the host and the clients are straightforward about the terms, everyone is happy.

UmBillyCord and Rackshack -- so we assume -- have managed to offer an internet connection without billing based on the bits that flow from your box. If the system works, great! UmBillyCord places a weightier emphasis on resource usage. So be it!

The great thing about our free market is that competing philosophies are allowed to be tested in the real world. This is how innovation happens. This is how the underdog can win -- by trying new things and making them work.

So please, let's not get confused by the unmetered == unlimited issue.

Originally posted by UmBillyCord


Nether was "dude", "d'oh", "cyber", and about a million other words that were slowly added to the English dictionary.
Dude is and has been in the dictionary, d'oh is an expression -- or a sound you make (like "ugh") and I think cyber is short for cybernetics -- so that's just laziness. Unmetered isn't a word and it isn't part of the English dictionary. Well, really, who cares? :D :D

Anyway, I really just wanted to know who coined that term, it's an interesting word.

Originally posted by mindboggle
Unmetered isn't a word and it isn't part of the English dictionary.
Get a better dictionary. It's in both Websters and OED.

unmetered a. Not measured by means of a meter; not provided with a meter.

Dude is and has been in the dictionary, d'oh is an expression -- or a sound you make (like "ugh") and I think cyber is short for cybernetics -- so that's just laziness. Unmetered isn't a word and it isn't part of the English dictionary. Well, really, who cares?

I think you get my point. Dude was slang that came to be used so wide spread it is now included. D'oh has been such a big influence (:)) on culture, it is actually to be placed into the dictionaries. I just read that. cyber was a word created to explain things to better detail (I made this up). Do you think they had that word in 20,000 BC? ;)

Originally posted by dektong


Connecticut

cheers,
:beer:

Grumble, grumble. I live in Connecticut too and my water is metered. And I just got a $400 sewer assessment bill too :o

Now, for my on-topic comments ...

Even though I don't like the fact that RackShack is offering 10Mb/sec connections unmetered, if that's how they want to market their business, and make their money, so be it.

I also think that it's pretty obvious there's a big difference between unlimited and an unmetered connection, especially with regard to dedicated hosting. Unlimited bandwidth doesn't exist. Unmetered bandwidth is very possible to provide, and until it's proven otherwise that RackShack is some how cracking down on high-usage customers and making them pay "overages" on their unmetered connection, then RS should stay off "the list".

*sigh* At least this is an interesting industry to be in ;) I guess I can keep on dreaming about Cogent going belly up - or at the other end of the spectrum - being so successful that they force the rest of the market to lower their prices to less than $30/Mb/sec.

Originally posted by cperciva

Get a better dictionary. It's in both Websters and OED.

unmetered a. Not measured by means of a meter; not provided with a meter.
So http://www.dictionary.com is a bad dictionary? Same with my american hertiage dictionary? :confused:

Go to websters.com (http://www.websters.com) :D

Originally posted by mindboggle

So http://www.dictionary.com is a bad dictionary? Same with my american hertiage dictionary? :confused:

I guess so.

http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

No "unmetered" there. Are you sure you have a Websters dictionary?

Originally posted by mindboggle
No "unmetered" there. Are you sure you have a Websters dictionary?

Actually I'm sure I don't have a Websters dictionary; but OED lists the first known published use of the term as "1909, in Websters". I guess they might have removed it since then.

Ok, well I don't want to argue over a word. :D :D :)

Well, the great thing about English is that you can invent new words all the time by playing around with prefixes and whatnot.

Metered:
to measure by means of a meter

Un:
not, or opposite of

Unmetered:
to not measure by means of a meter