When will everyone realize that not everyone can be a web host and that start ups are only hurting the market?

If you want to do it for fun then setup your router to handle http,ftp,smtp on some cheap linux box running apache,an mta, and proftpd.

Hosting is no longer a service that can be offered by anyone. It only scares potential clients away when they have 3 bad hosts in a row that are 14-17 year olds who don't take care of their customers when their servers explode.

:( :cartman:

My views. 2 Points.
1) I have seen many mature and sensible 14-17 year olds. And I have seen many immature 30+ year olds as well... So the bottom line is on how sensible and serious one is with his business.

2) Startups are not always bad. We all start at some stage and at that time price is the biggest weapon we have to get a customer.


What the industry needs is to get rid of people who do not know Math (but that will never happen anyway). They can't calculate the costs they incur and add the profit to it. That is not how all startups work. It is a different story that those who do not know Math end up after the startup stage...

Have a nice day :)

Regards
Amar

This is the industry with arguably the lowest startup costs in the world.

Consequently, it is expected that young people will enter the industry, with or without the entrepreneurial and server management skillls neccessary to succeed. The best we can do is educate these young people, and be sure that they start with reseller accounts, and build their knowledge before moving on to dedicated servers.

Speaking as someone who may be considered on the "young" side of the tracks myself. I disagree.

I completely get your point, and do agree with you on the fact that there are too many people who think that web hosting would be something "neat" or "fun" to do as a hobby.

However! Suggesting that startups are bad? That's just ludacris. It sounds to me that most likely you just had a bad day, or a recent bad experience. Suggesting that startups are hurting the industry... ? No, not at all. Quite the contrary. Competition is a good thing, and forces you to be on top of your game.

Competition encourages growth and development. Of course, you may also bring up the point "Well, how am I supposed to compete with someone offering the moon for a dollar?"

Simple answer, you're not. But that's an entirely different discussion, and we'll save that for another thread. Besides, the whole quality vs quantity thing has been beaten to death already. If someone hasn't picked up on that by now, they're most likely not going to.

Anyway, my point was, that every young person SHOULD indeed at some point own their own business, or company. Even if it's just selling lemonade on the sidewalk. Given a proper role model to follow, and adequate guidance, it can be a vast learning experience. Something which I wholeheartedly encourage. :)

Just my two cents.

Anyway, my point was, that every young person SHOULD indeed at some point own their own business, or company. Even if it's just selling lemonade on the sidewalk. Given a proper role model to follow, and adequate guidance, it can be a vast learning experience. Something which I wholeheartedly encourage.

If you make a mistake while running a lemonade stand then the buyer isnt going to get angry however, if you make a mistake running a companies website then thats important. so lets establish that it's very important not to make mistakes in this industry - thats obvious. people without business experience will make mistakes - thats obvious, and especially if they havent gone through school, uni or courses.

While it is so easy for someone to get into hosting it is most of the time a bad thing when its a kid who is still at school...

BTW, I think that this industry is changing fast with regard to startup costs. The major cost nowadays is advertising, it's getting harder and harder to get a client and its going to get way worse. Just look at the google adwords, you need to pay at least 1 per click and some companies are evaluating that obtaining a client is worth $100 each....

Originally posted by PhilG
If you make a mistake while running a lemonade stand then the buyer isnt going to get angry however, if you make a mistake running a companies website then thats important. so lets establish that it's very important not to make mistakes in this industry - thats obvious. people without business experience will make mistakes - thats obvious, and especially if they havent gone through school, uni or courses.

While it is so easy for someone to get into hosting it is most of the time a bad thing when its a kid who is still at school...

BTW, I think that this industry is changing fast with regard to startup costs. The major cost nowadays is advertising, it's getting harder and harder to get a client and its going to get way worse. Just look at the google adwords, you need to pay at least 1 per click and some companies are evaluating that obtaining a client is worth $100 each....

While it's true that there is more of a liability when running a business that serves other businesses than there is when running a lemonade stand per say, there is always risk associated with ANY business. Also, to say that when you make a mistake while running this lemonade stand, customers won't get upset, isn't necessarily true. Anything can happen, anytime, anywhere.

Would you assume that customers at Wendy's would get upset if their order was messed up? How about if they find a finger in their chili? (Recent events). You can't prepare for everything.. unfortunately, some people don't even TRY. I think that might be what you guys are getting at here.

I also definately agree that this isn't something that you should get into part-time, unless you make it obvious to anyone you're doing business with that THAT'S the case. It's only fair to them as a customer. If you can only provide support between 5PM and 10PM, then let them know that. Lord knows there's enough --edit-- people out there that would be willing to deal with that to save a buck.

About the Adsense thing, I knew it was getting out of hand, but I don't personally use it. However, depending on the pricing, and services being offered, I could see how a new client would be worth 100 dollars, but I wouldn't pay that much for a clickthru. That's ludacris.

My youngest reseller has only 13 years old and he is doing a great job.

Originally posted by webink
When will everyone realize that not everyone can be a web host and that start ups are only hurting the market?
Part of me is appluading what you've written, and part of me sees the other side of the coin. The hosting business has a notoriously low entry level, before someone can call themself a host.

For less than $100.00, you can get started with a reseller account, some billing/client management, your site, some cc processing platform etc, and you're off and running.

If you want to start at the colo level, you can pretty much get setup very nicely for around $10k. That'll get you your server/s, billing/client management software, merchant account, site, etc etc etc. That's still a very low entry level for a business, and you'll probably get some change from that $10k too.

Now don't get me wrong - that low entry level really helped me get started back when I started HTTPme, and I imagine helped a lot of other hosts get going. It's a good and bad thing, that helps good honest hardworking hosts get going, but it also opens the door to the dishonest and unethical hosts.

I won't mention names, but in the past I have supplied some pretty young hosts with their reseller account/s etc. One such host was 14 yrs old, and him and his dad were running the business. It was legit, and they did an amazing job for their clients. They now have a couple of dedicated servers and are going from strength to strength. :)

Who do we blame? The 14/17/36 year old host who doesn't know what their doing, or the customer who pays more for a McDonalds hamburger than he does for a month of hosting for his mission critical business site?

Originally posted by webink
When will everyone realize that not everyone can be a web host and that start ups are only hurting the market? . . . I'm not sure what happened that made you start this thread. But aren't you, by definition, the very thing you're complaining about? :confused:

webinkhosting.com

Creation date: 07 Oct 2004 16:40:55
Expiration date: 07 Oct 2005 16:40:55

A start-up complaining there are too many start-ups. Funny stuff....

low level of entry, what do you expect? a dedicated server cost no more than $200 today and even colo cost less than before and like bob say $100 will get you going with a reseller account.

too easy to enter thus too many start up

amish_geek Who do we blame? The 14/17/36 year old host who doesn't know what their doing, or the customer who pays more for a McDonalds hamburger than he does for a month of hosting for his mission critical business site? This is a very good point.

stokes_83 webinkhosting.com Creation date: 07 Oct 2004 16:40:55Expiration date: 07 Oct 2005 16:40:55 A start-up complaining there are too many start-ups. Funny stuff....
This might show when the domain was registered but doesn't tell you if they were in business for a few years and changed names or the experience level of the company.

wcws, try clicking any of the links on the bottom of their site..

DanX wcws, try clicking any of the links on the bottom of their site..
I agree, there is no doubt that this particular host is questionable at this point with the info or lack of on their website. I was making a point in my earlier post about domain start dates in general and not at all saying this OP host is aok. I didn't make myself clear enough so thank you for pointing that out.:)

Originally posted by stokes_83
webinkhosting.com

Creation date: 07 Oct 2004 16:40:55
Expiration date: 07 Oct 2005 16:40:55

A start-up complaining there are too many start-ups. Funny stuff....

isn't it ironic? honestly i dont advertise nor host anyone. i use this site for my own commercial projects, but that is besides all points in this thread...

My motivating factor for this thread is that it seems everyone wants to be a host hoping to make some great money. But start ups don't know what it takes to run a cash flow positive host.

The market for hosting is so full that one could compare it in this way...

10 years ago the hosting industry was like a glass of water with a shot of sugar. Now it is like a glass of milk with a few squirts of chocolate syrup.


It also hurts to see so many fellow techies fail because they go full blown into it without research, experience with servers, accounting abilities, etc. That's mainly what WHT is here for but I just don't know about the approaches with this industry i see with the majority of the beginners here. It takes a lot more than just a reseller account to be successful as a host.

BTW, i'm not a start-up, I have worked with more than 1 hosting firm before. I admit web ink is the first attempt to cater to businesses that I have ever tried and it has gone no where so far because i am working 2 part time jobs.

Hosting is no longer a easilly profitable industry, not with the current competition and endless line of foobar hosts.

Originally posted by webink

10 years ago the hosting industry was like a glass of water with a shot of sugar. Now it is like a glass of milk with a few squirts of chocolate syrup.
I hope I am not the only one who doesnt get this. :confused:

Originally posted by webink

Hosting is no longer a easilly profitable industry, not with the current competition and endless line of foobar hosts. Hosting is easily proftiable, maybe not when marketing to the $2.99 crowd but business class hosting is just getting started.

I love the small startups that show the crap side of the industry. When a customer decided to leave I always have a short survey form them to fill out and if they put price I can almost deffinatly count on them comming back. They go out there to the $2.99 guys and get $2.99 worth of service then they come back, also helps that I offer a free month for refugees that were previous customers..

Well,

I believe this thread was directed at me. The 16 year old start up. Well I have been involved in the hosting industry for the past 2 years, I have learned the ropes, dealt some pretty interesting people, and learned ALOT. In two years, I have invested close to $2000 out of my own pocket (I have a part time job) and I have not seen a dime of it back yet. Why? Because I keep re-investing the money I have made. That goes to show you, you do not need $10,000 to start a business, I did it with $50, a few tech books, and a hand coded template. Now a partner and I are out on a new hosting venture, we have just purchased a dedicated server and we are starting a new business.

Now dont get me wrong, I understand that there are people my age who are ignorant when it comes to this industry. But please, dont bash those of us who do know what we are doing. I now know more about accounting than me 50 year old parents. It's kind of amusing when April rolled around and they asked their 16 year old son to do their tax's for them.

Originally posted by MP Nesto
But please, dont bash those of us who do know what we are doing.

He has a point. Some people, even if they are young, do know what they are doing. They are mature and actually try, actually put effort into it. If you want to bash a 16 year old with close to the same skills and dedication as you, the only reason you are doing it is because you are mad he/she is doing what you are doing ... but much younger.

Don't doubt those that are younger and dedicated, for they actually can do things correctly (as hard as it may seem).

Originally posted by Haddy
I hope I am not the only one who doesnt get this. :confused:

Hosting is easily proftiable, maybe not when marketing to the $2.99 crowd but business class hosting is just getting started.

I love the small startups that show the crap side of the industry. When a customer decided to leave I always have a short survey form them to fill out and if they put price I can almost deffinatly count on them comming back. They go out there to the $2.99 guys and get $2.99 worth of service then they come back, also helps that I offer a free month for refugees that were previous customers..

LOL, um i mean it is very diluted. Sooo many hosts out there.

I'm not bashing based on age guys. I just recently turned 18 and I strongly believe in theabilities of young people. It is how we prove ourselves as adults, right? Well, what I meant to say is that many YOUNG people under 15(typically) just can't keep up with the obligation of starting nor running a host and they come and go easilly. :(



3 Cheers to everyone who is making it through, the hard way or not. Whne you prove yourselves then yoyu can shoot people like me down who say it is dumb that everyone THINKS they can do it while not taking it seriously with actual commitment.


Keys to running a host(according to many ignorant n00bs):
1)reseller account for $20/mo
2)Web site template(that looks just like the next)
3)phpBB or like forum
4)google ads and hosting index listing for advertising

*LAME*

Originally posted by webink
Keys to running a host(according to many ignorant n00bs):

You said 'n00bs' :rofl:

:peace:

In the end the strongest survive. Thats it.

I have been in this industry for quite a few years and watched hundreds of "kiddie" hosts and even some large hosts go down the drain and dissapear. Its all about knowing what you are doing, doing it legally, staying organized, and planning everything out.

$20!!!! Thats alot of money....unless it comes with 5gigaquads of transfer!!!!

Originally posted by bobcares

What the industry needs is to get rid of people who do not know Math (but that will never happen anyway). They can't calculate the costs they incur and add the profit to it. That is not how all startups work. It is a different story that those who do not know Math end up after the startup stage...

Have a nice day :)

Regards
Amar

Who needs math, any idiot can open excel and type in the amount of costs and take them away from revenue...

I think what happens is people leave out costs, for example, many ignore giving themselves a proper salary, general business expenses and anything else...

Who do we blame? The 14/17/36 year old host who doesn't know what their doing, or the customer who pays more for a McDonalds hamburger than he does for a month of hosting for his mission critical business site?

So sad, and yet so true.

Nesto - just do yourself a favor and while you keep growing your business stay focused on school – I know you’ve felt like you’ve learned a lot but hopefully at some point you'll work out the grammar- it's "taxes" -

tax's

Good luck with you business and I agree, success is not simply age based. There is an argument that all the very poor hosts just create a new market for quality hosting. People who leave these hosts aren't people who never have a host again - they are simply now people who will make sure their next host has their act together.

:)

d.

Well dgoss typos happen :)


However you should trust me when I say I am already a step ahead of you, I am number 1 in my class and I have a 4.3 GPA, so I must be doing somthing right.

(for those of you who are curious it is possible to get higher than a 4.0 with weighted credits)

so you are at school, have a part time job and run a web hosting business... wow you must be a busy person!

Good luck bud

I am a busy person.

That is also why my partner is such a necessary part of the business.

Without that part time job, I never would have been able to afford the expenses that go along with it.

Originally posted by Laws
Who needs math, any idiot can open excel and type in the amount of costs and take them away from revenue...

I think what happens is people leave out costs, for example, many ignore giving themselves a proper salary, general business expenses and anything else...

In business math for a startup basically means the break-even analysis.
One does use a spreadsheet for it... But more important than the tool is the ability to fill in the right details..... :)

The greatest thing about a startup is that if the host is bad, it will soon dissapear. The industry is all about Darwinism.

This whole thread is very, ahhh, interesting..... Lol!

But anyway, it seems to be the common thought gathering here that it's not age that matters but maturity. And I agree.

I am young (won't say how old, it's probably posted somewhere else here on the forum if you *really, really* care) and started my company back in August. I actually have done Internet work since way back in 1999, but didn't start doing it for money until last August.

Anyway, I'm finally getting some momentum going, and it really is pretty cool. I guess it helps too that I ran a computer service company for a couple of years and an e-newsletter for five years. Experience is the key. My thoughts are this: 2 years of experience is with *FAR* more than 20 masters degrees. I know people who would strongly disagree, but the bottom line is that the only way you learn is to get out there and work yourself to death!

And why not start young? That way, when you and your peers are in your thirties and they're trying to build their careers and make house and car payments, you will have sold your company for a nice sum and be out on your yacht off the coast of Hawaii about to land at one of your extravagant houses! Lol!

Cheers everyone! And happy hosting! :)

Originally posted by edelweisshosting
My youngest reseller has only 13 years old and he is doing a great job.

Doing a fine job giving you business or doing a fine job running a web hosting company? I don't think you would know unless you've been a customer of his. Would you trust him to host your own company web site?

Originally posted by webink
When will everyone realize that not everyone can be a web host and that start ups are only hurting the market?

If you want to do it for fun then setup your router to handle http,ftp,smtp on some cheap linux box running apache,an mta, and proftpd.

Hosting is no longer a service that can be offered by anyone. It only scares potential clients away when they have 3 bad hosts in a row that are 14-17 year olds who don't take care of their customers when their servers explode.

:( :cartman:

I agree with you 100%

I look forward to the day all the people running penny hosts graduate and have to get a job. Maybe one day it'll occur to them cramming 800 virtual hosts for $3.95 each into a web server wasn't a good way of making money.

Originally posted by hostmaniac
I agree with you 100%

I look forward to the day all the people running penny hosts graduate and have to get a job. Maybe one day it'll occur to them cramming 800 virtual hosts for $3.95 each into a web server wasn't a good way of making money.

I strongly urge you to read through this entire thread.

Originally posted by MP Nesto
I strongly urge you to read through this entire thread.

Yeah, I think it may help.. heh

Originally posted by MP Nesto
I strongly urge you to read through this entire thread.

Did so.. what am I missing?

The fact that age is irrelevant.

Originally posted by MP Nesto
The fact that age is irrelevant.

What hostmaniac said has NOTHING to do with ther argument of age.

NOR WAS THAT MY ARGUMENT IN THE FIRST PLACE.


He simply agrees that these countless value hosts are only hurting the rest of us trying to run a quality business. IE - not just anyone can should run a host. If you do you better put your serious effort into it, it's a full time occupation no matter what age you are!

:angry:

Originally posted by MP Nesto
The fact that age is irrelevant.

WTF...

Of course age is relevant! It's relevant in nearly all aspects of society for gods sake! You can see age restrictions on drinking, smoking, clubs, driving, gambling, etc... Society has these norms because underage teens do not tend to be *sufficiently* mature and *responsible*.. Doesn't matter if you think a few 13 year olds are more mature than some 30 year olds.. The argument does not hold. To make the consumers suffer for the 1% of 13 yr olds who think they're mature enough to run a professional business is not right.

And besides, they are missing the best years of their lives spending so much time behind the computer!!! They'll have plenty of time to worry about making money when they have a wife and kids and expenses! Now's their time to enjoy life! Who are they going to bring to the prom? :penguin: ?

Plus I don't want to call my web hosting provider and hear "sorry, John has a final exam tomorrow and can't attend to your technical issues".. did you think about that? THEY GO TO SCHOOL 9-5 and then they go for POPSICLES!! lol

Age *IS* relevant! Let's get real!

Originally posted by hostmaniac
And besides, they are missing the best years of their lives spending so much time behind the computer!!! They'll have plenty of time to worry about making money when they have a wife and kids and expenses! Now's their time to enjoy life! Who are they going to bring to the prom?See my post a few messages above....I myself would rather enjoy life when I'm young as well as when I reach middle-age instead of getting stoned and partying every night and having to work my butt off from the time I'm thirty until the day I die.

The bottom line is that you have to be committed, no matter what age you are. And if someone really young wants to be committed to this, go for it! :)

Originally posted by hostmaniac
And besides, they are missing the best years of their lives spending so much time behind the computer!!! They'll have plenty of time to worry about making money when they have a wife and kids and expenses! Now's their time to enjoy life! Who are they going to bring to the prom? :penguin: ?

Plus I don't want to call my web hosting provider and hear "sorry, John has a final exam tomorrow and can't attend to your technical issues".. did you think about that? THEY GO TO SCHOOL 9-5 and then they go for POPSICLES!! lol

Age *IS* relevant! Let's get real!

First of all, I have yet to find a school that goes 9-5 ... maybe my state is just not normal, but the latest they get out of 3:30. In my school I get out at 1, so it's not too bad. Hence, I start offering support at 2 PM. Is this good enough for everyone? Of course not.

Some people want to be able to pull an all niter to come and get support at 4 AM. That's perfectly their right. Does that mean that I shouldn't at least try? Of course not. I have some customers right now that say I am the best host they have ever had. I may only offer support from 2 PM and for 8 hours, but I would rather offer 15 minute response times opposed to 2 hour response times 24/7.

This is just my 2 cents.

Originally posted by RefreshNet
First of all, I have yet to find a school that goes 9-5 ... maybe my state is just not normal, but the latest they get out of 3:30. In my school I get out at 1, so it's not too bad. Hence, I start offering support at 2 PM. Is this good enough for everyone? Of course not.

Some people want to be able to pull an all niter to come and get support at 4 AM. That's perfectly their right. Does that mean that I shouldn't at least try? Of course not. I have some customers right now that say I am the best host they have ever had. I may only offer support from 2 PM and for 8 hours, but I would rather offer 15 minute response times opposed to 2 hour response times 24/7.

This is just my 2 cents.

So what happens if your server gets hacked when you start school? Is your server going to be down until you get home at about 2PM to even look into what happened?

I have my server monitored and alerts sent to my primary email and cell phone. The DC monitors should pick it up and restart (from what I understand, hasn't happened yet. -- managed VPS), as well as I can get to a computer about every 45 minutes (or sooner) if needed.

If hacked I would still have time to shoot off an email requesting it to be looked at, after all, that only takes about 30 seconds.

Also just to clear this up, I'm not saying I'm perfect. I'm not saying I can compete in the 'big boys' league. I'm simply saying I can run it decently in my current situation.

i think in ways its good for the younger fellows it gives them a sense of responsability

He did state he had a partner involved, they may be covering opposite shift periods.

It is very NIMBY for most of you to say that start ups are bad, they damage the market, they suck, they cant host right, bla bla bla....!

Dont be selfish!

NIMBY - not in my backyard

Interesting thread. Now for my opinion. I am all for young business owner, if, and here's the killer, they know what they're doing. And let me tell you, there are some out there who are.

We all know that the hosting industry is tough, but, this is also a good thing. If a bad host enters the market, they are kicked right back out just as quick!

At the end of the day, its skills that matter, not age. If a person can do it, then I don't care how old they are. If they have the skills to do what I want, then go ahead and do it!

EDIT: And as for the comment about "enjoying life when you're young" - I wouldn't call going out every night, staying out until 3AM, getting totally drunk and stoned "fun" would you? If you wanna get into facts and age, thats what most teenagers nowadays do.

What if a person enjoys running a business, likes seeing it progress and likes the feeling of "business", but can also do a good job. What, you're telling me they shouldn't be in business because of their age?!? That's like telling someone they can't go into business because they have brown hair !!!!

Originally posted by will7
Interesting thread. Now for my opinion. I am all for young business owner, if, and here's the killer, they know what they're doing. And let me tell you, there are some out there who are.

We all know that the hosting industry is tough, but, this is also a good thing. If a bad host enters the market, they are kicked right back out just as quick!

At the end of the day, its skills that matter, not age. If a person can do it, then I don't care how old they are. If they have the skills to do what I want, then go ahead and do it!

EDIT: And as for the comment about "enjoying life when you're young" - I wouldn't call going out every night, staying out until 3AM, getting totally drunk and stoned "fun" would you? If you wanna get into facts and age, thats what most teenagers nowadays do.

What if a person enjoys running a business, likes seeing it progress and likes the feeling of "business", but can also do a good job. What, you're telling me they shouldn't be in business because of their age?!? That's like telling someone they can't go into business because they have brown hair !!!!

You hit the nail right on the head, my friend... I totally agree about the age thing. My friend, who happens to be 15, is a running a 'somewhat succesful' hosting company. He is making some decent money. Another good thing about teens and hosting is that it might even keep them out of trouble. Most of my friends have a summer job anyways, why not a hosting biz? I think I am going to start a hosting biz with my friend soon, and yes, we are experienced, we both run lots of sites and my friend has already ran a hosting company. The competitiveness of the hosting industry keeps the good hosts on top, and kills the bad ones, survival of the fittest: Darwinism at its finest! Thanks for that great post!

Regards,
Chris

Such is the industry, for reasons already stated. But eventually, change will happen. Either the tax man is going to get involved, by the sheer amount of hosts running unregistered businesses. When the industry becomes regulated... or the least likely, when a good method for standardization becomes available.

For the time being... find your market and live with the fact that you may be competing with a 13 year old that doesn't pay taxes, or a 30 year old looking to screw over a whole bunch of people :).

Originally posted by JustinH
. . . For the time being... find your market and live with the fact that you may be competing with a 13 year old that doesn't pay taxes, or a 30 year old looking to screw over a whole bunch of people :).
God bless capitalism! :usflag:

I'd like to add, I am not saying that young hosts should run illegal businesses! Quite the opposite! The fact that they need to know what they doing incorporates knowledge about tax and business legalities also.

Personally I think all this hot air about youngsters starting businesses and competiting with the "oldies" is because technology has evolved the industry that allows a more level ground for competition.

Now how would we define age? Would a 30 year old that know nuts about IT be deemed as "older" than a 16 year old that has been designing websites and managing his own personal server and websites since 10?
Who is older than who?

The fact is that we are too culturely fashioned to link youth of age with inexperience, rash behaviour and instabilitity.

We all make mistakes and I am sure everyone made mistakes regardless of age when they first started off no matter how much capital, experience or intelligence.

Technology is changing at a repid rate and we need a more vibrant and 'dare to die' attitude that many youths display to keep it going.

Think of it as a double edged sword.
They can be your worse enemies or they can be your stepping stones to success.

"Is the glass half full or half empty?"

My 2 cents :)

The internet is something new for young teenagers. It's a chance to make more money then working at Mc Donalds or a minimum wage job.

When I was 15 I was running a gaming store selling items. I made over $3,000 a month. I was doing this legally, I was working under my Dad's name under a sole prioritorship. I was able to save up about $15,000. I was running my business for a little over a year and a half.

I ended up closing it because it became to time consuming and I was lost, I didn't know how to make my business grow. I am now 18 and know a lot more and have learned a lot from my experience.

My point is, young entrepreneurs can create an income from the internet. They can be unexperienced however, many teenagers can be very dedicated.

i dunno if 13 is the right age...people talk about enjoy life meaning No Worry be happy. i think the age should be at least 18yrs old. that way young ppl can enter legal contract and setup business.

if Dell didn't started when he was in college, we won't have Dell as number PC vendor in the U.S. and if Bill Gate didn't start during his college year where is Microsoft. how about Apple? Steve Job start in college too.

i think younger people benefit more when they can start legit during their college years. it keep them focus on work and doesn't mix up in their college buddy's drinking game.

no 13yrs old will party all night, his/her mom and dad will be worry.

i say enjoy your teen life and do business during your college life. it keep you foucs on where you want to go and also a legit business.

you need to be 18 to be consider adult to sign any contract and not draging your partent into it.

my two cents.

Originally posted by RefreshNet
First of all, I have yet to find a school that goes 9-5 ... maybe my state is just not normal, but the latest they get out of 3:30. In my school I get out at 1, so it's not too bad. Hence, I start offering support at 2 PM. Is this good enough for everyone? Of course not.

Some people want to be able to pull an all niter to come and get support at 4 AM. That's perfectly their right. Does that mean that I shouldn't at least try? Of course not. I have some customers right now that say I am the best host they have ever had. I may only offer support from 2 PM and for 8 hours, but I would rather offer 15 minute response times opposed to 2 hour response times 24/7.

This is just my 2 cents.

hi, wouldn't your TOS/AUP = void? since you're not old enought to enter any service agreement with your customers?

I can see this thread turning over flame galore, this crosses so many borders on age, experience, and determination, and reliability.

IMO, I think that if the person is determined enough to provide reliable and up to task services, and has the experience or is willing to gain the experience needed to troubleshoot and uphold his services as well, i could care less on his age.

Originally posted by jt2377
hi, wouldn't your TOS/AUP = void? since you're not old enought to enter any service agreement with your customers?

That situation sort of puts him in a disposition, but it all depends. Some people are 18 and still in school, but either they have failed, or are a senior in HS.

If he is under 18.. thats where it gets nasty. If the business is legally (or in this case illegally) unregistered, then he can't do squat all if he is screwed, and his parents are personally liable for anything that he or his services cause loss wise to his customers.

If his parents or someone else over 18 holds the business name till he turns of age, making the entire thing legal, then that person (or the business, depending on the registration of the business) has rights either way, but he must express them through his parents.

Who said I wasn't 18? (If I did, that would be correct since I am 17.) If I have not mentioned it, my main partner who has the final say on things is over 18, and technically I work for him. However since I do most of the work, I usually will say "my company".

I hope this answers your question.

Originally posted by Killa200
IMO, I think that if the person is determined enough to provide reliable and up to task services, and has the experience or is willing to gain the experience needed to troubleshoot and uphold his services as well, i could care less on his age.

I agree.

Interesting thing going on with the age 18 issue here. Contrary to popular opinion, federal law *DOES NOT* bar those under age 18 from entering into legal contracts.

What the law does state is that minors can end a contract at any time for any reason and the other party would have no option but to accept.

Hence, the reason most choose not to do business with those under age 18 has more to do with the fact that they don't want to get burned than it does with breaking the law, which is a myth.

Originally posted by globalwebbrands
Interesting thing going on with the age 18 issue here. Contrary to popular opinion, federal law *DOES NOT* bar those under age 18 from entering into legal contracts.

What the law does state is that minors can end a contract at any time for any reason and the other party would have no option but to accept.

Hence, the reason most choose not to do business with those under age 18 has more to do with the fact that they don't want to get burned than it does with breaking the law, which is a myth.

And if by chance that minor gets into trouble while being under that contract then the legal guardian is legally responsible.

Exactly, MP Nesto - I had forgotten that one! :)

So folks, there's no law out there saying these younger people can't be in biz...And why should there be?

This is a capitalist country...if you want to live like socialistic animals where the government dictates every freaking thing you do fine, but don't stay in America.

Sorry for the outburst, but the ignorance here is starting to get under my skin.

Startups as in any industry can only bring innovation, and competition and only improve things in the long run. Guys that don't make the grade fallout, while guys that can take the pressure survive and grow bigger. It's just how economics works.

Kids running it? I blame the clients as much as the host for not doing their due diligence. For businesses, hosting is like your business face, just like a store front. But some prefer to go for the cheapest possible.