With the per click prices I am paying on Adwords I used to be on around 7th postion like 4 months ago. Now I am on 12th position. I am still getting the same amount of visitors though but am concerned that if it goes on like that one day you have to pay those insane $5 per click prices if you want traffic from Adwords. What do you think ? Is Adwords sold out ?

I am still getting the same amount of visitors though but am concerned that if it goes on like that one day you have to pay those insane $5 per click prices if you want traffic from Adwords.Insane? Not if your customer's lifetime worth is high enough for you to afford to pay such advertising prices. :)

Maybe advertising is not too expensive, maybe the profit margins are too small. Or maybe the sales closure rate is too low and you should work on the copy you're using... :)

What do you think ? Is Adwords sold out ?If you look at it from Google's point of view, your post shows that Adwords is still in its blossoming period. :)

$5/click is cheap. Its highly targetted visits and if your sites working correctly then conversion from adword clicks is great!

$5/click is almost our MINIMUM spend, if you can spend $5-10 and gain 1 client out of it then thats very cheap and money well spent!

There you go! :)

If course... it also depends on the price you sell hosting for. ;)

>$5/click is almost our MINIMUM spend, if you can spend $5-10
>and gain 1 client out of it then thats very cheap and money well
>spent!

That means your conversion ratio is around 75%. Is that right ?

I just looked at it again and found I mad a mistake while looking at my campaign I used to get a lot impressions for a certain keyword where I was ranking 3rd but now I am getting many impressions from another keyword where I am on 13th position. I though my ranking decreased because instead of looking at the ranking of the specific keyword I looked at the total ranking which decreased due to the fact that I was getting more traffic from another keyword where I am ranking lower...

Puh... I was really scared :D

$5 per click? - and then I wonder why I was getting zilch.

Seriously how many times can you afford to pay $5 per click in each day? - I know google lets you set a limit but last time I tried google it ran up over $60 costs on a $2.50 per day budget - within 5 days I might add.

Google really tried to google me out of my hard earned cash.

-Turboz - I mean Googled Turboz.

If google is taking $5 click they are ripping Adwords users and Adsense publishers off, Im droping Google from my site.

it also depends on the price you sell hosting for. Of course Matt.

That means your conversion ratio is around 75%. Is that right ?I doubt it he gets that kind of conversion ratio. If he does, that must be some kind of a record. I think he meant that $5-10 per click is OK from his point of view.

No no no, not 75% conversion.

Thomas,

The fact that the click prices are growing is nothing new. As PPC advertising becomes more and more popular, companies jump on the bandwagon and obviously, the prices increase.

The key to this is that the visitor that used to cost .50c a few years ago is now the exact the same quality as a click that costs $5. The difference, however, is that good advertisers have become a lot more meticulous about their advertising and constantly finetune their campaigns, their websites, their sales process, keywords, etc.

Ultimately, we all have to accept that the prices will continue to increase, but as of now, Google AdWords and Overture still hold tremendous potential.

There is a guy, called Kevin Gold, that wrote a 3-part article called:

What to Do When Your Pay per Click Keyword Bids Increase?

If you Google the term, you'll find it. It's a very good read.

Matt, I also wanted to respond to your comment. Honestly speaking, I don't think that $5 per click is cheap. As long as it delivers conversions and brings you actual profit, it's a worthwhile expenditure, but I'd say that your ads are not performing up to their potential, if you pay so much.

From my experience in the hosting market and the Pay Per Click advertising industry, I don't think that you should settle for $5 clicks.

Hosting industry is a competitive one, but when it comes down to PPC, too many large companies simply aim for the top positions and plunk down as much money as it takes without carefully analyzing and tuning their campaigns. This is especially important on AdWords, because you can get higher positions and pay less than your competition, if your ads get a high CTR.

Just my $0.02

Boris

Originally posted by WebDogPro
If google is taking $5 click they are ripping Adwords users and Adsense publishers off, Im droping Google from my site.

Google isn't ripping off anyone with $5 clicks. These keywords are auctioned off to the highest bidders, and lots of people are willing to pay $5/click, considering it to be cheap. If you pay $5 per click, and have a 10% conversion rate, you're only paying $50 per sale.

Originally posted by AdWatcher-Boris
Matt, I also wanted to respond to your comment. Honestly speaking, I don't think that $5 per click is cheap. As long as it delivers conversions and brings you actual profit, it's a worthwhile expenditure, but I'd say that your ads are not performing up to their potential, if you pay so much.


I agree. $5/click is great if you're really getting the ROI from it, but it's definitely possible to put together an effective campaign with a smaller CPC, and smaller companies should not be discouraged from competing on Adwords. I'm getting over 75,000 clicks/month from Adwords (for various sites--not all hosting related) and paying no more than an average of 8 cents per click. It's a great value but it does take some WORK ;)

>paying no more than an average of 8 cents per click

I used to have a campaign like that. I got it by accepting traffic from all the world (search + Adsense). I got a lot of cheap traffic but only few sales. Now I am only taking traffic from civilized countries and getting much better results although my CPC is around 0.30. I am paying less for the campaign and getting more sales.

>If you pay $5 per click, and have a 10% conversion rate, you're
>only paying $50 per sale.

The problem is if you are a cheap host it will take you like a year to get your money back. And if you are a high price host you are not gonna get a 10% conversion ratio. See what I mean ?

The only companies that can pay such rates are the big players who only buy that space to prevent their competition from becoming larger.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
>If you pay $5 per click, and have a 10% conversion rate, you're
>only paying $50 per sale.

The problem is if you are a cheap host it will take you like a year to get your money back. And if you are a high price host you are not gonna get a 10% conversion ratio. See what I mean ?

The only companies that can pay such rates are the big players who only buy that space to prevent their competition from becoming larger.

Not necessarily. It depends on the keywords you're going after.

If you're a high priced host, "cheap web hosting" is not the right keyword for you no matter how much you're paying per click.

Boris

10% conversion rate is extremely high.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
>paying no more than an average of 8 cents per click

I used to have a campaign like that. I got it by accepting traffic from all the world (search + Adsense). I got a lot of cheap traffic but only few sales. Now I am only taking traffic from civilized countries and getting much better results although my CPC is around 0.30. I am paying less for the campaign and getting more sales.

Yup it's all about optimization. It takes a little work to figure out what works the best for each situation.

10% conversion rate is extremely high.I know it for a fact that 5% is doable though, which will make a sale cost $100 (with a $5 per click price). For some it might sound very high, but depending on various factors it can be quite profitable.

Originally posted by ldcdc
I know it for a fact that 5% is doable though, which will make a sale cost $100 (with a $5 per click price). For some it might sound very high, but depending on various factors it can be quite profitable.

20% is possible for budget hosts but not for hosts with higher prices. Higher priced hosts might be getting around 2% pax which would make it 250 Dollar per sale. And that doesn`t pay off. I do not think $5 per click advertising can pay off for anyone. It is only good for large hosts to make sure that smaller hosts won`t be able to establish.

Originally posted by UH-Matt
$5/click is cheap. Its highly targetted visits and if your sites working correctly then conversion from adword clicks is great!
That's very dependant on your keywords etc, and how targetted they are to your service. I remember the days on goto.com when great keywords were a few cents per click. Ahhh, good times. :D

How does one determine your conversion ratio? What is the equation?

(Sales-From-Adwords-Referrers (can be cookie tracked for return visitors) / Adwords Clicks) * 100 = Percentage Conversion ratio for adwords

Originally posted by angelic81
How does one determine your conversion ratio? What is the equation?

Conversion ratio is most commonly measured in terms of how many unique visitors it takes to make 1 sale. e.g. 1% = 1 sale from 100 unique visitors.

A better measure is ROI (Return on Investment) which tells you whether you made or lost money on the ad. ;)

For hosts charging $20+ for the starter plan and offering even more expensive ones, even 250 bucks might be OK for a new customer if their internal numbers show that the average customers stays more than a year with them.

Originally posted by thomas.smith
Now I am only taking traffic from civilized countries

I didn't know there are uncivilized countries on this planet... :rolleyes:

>I didn't know there are uncivilized countries on this planet...

Oh come on... There are countries without houses and streets and people's main business is to rob neighbour villages with machine guns. Do you call that civilized ?

Civilized ?:

http://www.gendarmerie.gv.at/Image/ausland/Ruanda/UN%20Ruanda%2005_a.jpg

http://www.swr.de/imperia/md/images/eisenbahnr/157.jpg

http://www.rosenblatt-sf.com/Selected_Photos/Boys,%20Can%20Tho%20Islands,%20Vietnam%20(12232001).jpg

http://alfatihoun.edaama.org/Fichiers/Niger/Pays/web/images/Niger%20people.jpg

I think it's time you look up the word "civilized" in an encyclopedia... :mad:

Google says "civilized: having a high state of culture and development both social and technological" and that:
http://www.gendarmerie.gv.at/Image/ausland/Ruanda/UN%20Ruanda%2005_a.jpg

...does not seem to be very highly developed. LOL !

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=civilized

The Western world might be highly developed in a technical sense (though we're cavemen compared to countries like Japan or South Korea), but our society is definitely not of a high state... and as for culture, using Google to look up a dictionary word is anything but high culture. :stickout:

As for the images you linked to, you obviously mix up the words "uncivilized" and "poor". There are countless millions of people in the Western world too who live under similar primitive conditions - and I'm not talking about immigrants from the third world.

>but our society is definitely not of a high state...

Though there is no socienty that is of a higher state than ours.

>and as for culture, using Google to look up a dictionary word is
>anything but high culture.

Very funny...

>to cause to develop out of a primitive state

So you would say that the people living on that hill http://www.gendarmerie.gv.at/Image/ausland/Ruanda/UN%20Ruanda%2005_a.jpg did develop out of a primitive state ?

As soon as human beings build their own shelters, make their own tools, and have any kind of society, they are civilized.

As soon as they can communicate abstract concepts with each other, in no matter what way (spoken language, drawings, writing etc.), they have culture.

Regarding technological advances, any society using machines is a technological society - and machines are not only autos and computers. The simplest device that allows people to lift weights easier is already a machine and e.g. a windmill is already a complex machine.

As for our society being of the highest state, if you'd take the time to study history you'd realize on your own how untrue this statement is.


You are free to refute any of the above statements, but as far as I care the only thing you can prove with that is that your own education is more than sketchy and might not even reach the level of the very "uncivilized" people you so freely criticize...

I took a closer look at the image you quoted several times... FYI, Rwanda went through years of civil war with hundreds of thousands of people killed, millions losing everything they owned. The picture you are laughing so loudly about was most probably taken at a refugee camp where people land who've lost everything they've ever owned.

Taking a similar example, were Germans uncivilized in 1945? Most of the country didn't look much better than the poorest 3rd world country and millions lived under worse conditions than even those people on your pictures...

>As soon as human beings build their own shelters, make their
>own tools, and have any kind of society, they are civilized.

The definition on the site you mentioned doesn`t say civilized = anyone who is able to say "buggabugga" and carry a stick LOL. It requires that people "develop out of a primitive state". And primitive means simple. Compared to the western civilization Ruanda is very very simple ;)

>As for our society being of the highest state, if you'd take the
>time to study history you'd realize on your own how untrue this
>statement is.

I don`t think so. It depends on the definition of the word "high" what you consider a high state.

>You are free to refute any of the above statements, but as far
>as I care the only thing you can prove with that is that your own
>education is more than sketchy and might not even reach the
>level of the very "uncivilized" people you so freely criticize...

I went to university for two and a half years. I know someone who married a woman from Thailand and she doesn`t even know that 2 and 3 makes 5. Now the guys on that hill probably do not even know what numbers are. LOL. I do not think their education is better than mine. You just don't like my attitude. But that has nothing to do with education.

I think this is a discussion for the lounge. ;)

Ive never looked at our rate of return.

We work out each month what £ note value we want to spend on each advertising opportunity, and do it. As long as customers still come in from that advertising source, we continue as we are.

Maybe some analysis would show a higher or lower rate of return than I thought... but that doesnt bother me... As long as we can afford our current advertising budget, and are happy with our daily signup figures, then who cares ;)

Originally posted by thomas.smith
You just don't like my attitude.

You're right on that one, I definitely don't like your attitude... sounds too much like the racial superiority stuff that should've died out 60 years ago after the whole world could see where it leads.


But you're right Dan, sorry for taking this thread OT. Will stop now. ;)

>Taking a similar example, were Germans uncivilized in 1945?
>Most of the country didn't look much better than the poorest 3rd
>world country and millions lived under worse conditions than
>even those people on your pictures...

Destroying houses is one thing. Destroying technology, knowlege, potential and human developement is another thing. In Ruanda there never was any serious knowledge or human developement. You can't compare this to Germany. If you think the picture I posted does not represent Ruanda then have a look at other images. You won't find a lot of developement there

>You're right on that one, I definitely don't like your attitude...
>sounds too much like the racial superiority stuff that should've
>died out 60 years ago after the whole world could see where it
>leads.

I'm not saying their genetic code is bad. I am saying they are not civilized. And that is a fact.

Originally posted by UH-Matt
Ive never looked at our rate of return.

We work out each month what £ note value we want to spend on each advertising opportunity, and do it. As long as customers still come in from that advertising source, we continue as we are.

Maybe some analysis would show a higher or lower rate of return than I thought... but that doesnt bother me... As long as we can afford our current advertising budget, and are happy with our daily signup figures, then who cares ;)

But I guess you set a minimum of how many customers should come in from an advertising source before shutting it down, right? To take a theoretical example, if you spend 500 bucks on a newspaper ad every month and there are less than 5 people signing up because of it, then you abandon it starting next month, or?

Oh yes - we do expect results, we just dont sit around playing percentages.

I would love to spend hours every day squeezing every last inch out of our marketing budget, but thats just not me... and we dont employ some marketing wizz.

We make an educated guess on what works, and what doesnt. If the budget fits and the results put a smile on my face.. then its all good.

I can also tell you that looking into it a further our conversion on adwords looks to be nearer 15-20% than 5-10%. Thats based on the last few days and some educated guess work.

Sounds like a real good conversion rate, maybe I should really invest the time into putting up a website for potential customers. ;)

10% on Adwords is nearly impossible... Especially considering that there are a trillion companies offering unlimited everything for a cent. I am quite sure if you would really track the traffic you would see that your conversion ratio isn't that high.

No its not nearly impossible. But you are entitled to your opinion ;)

Our adwords are not competing with companies offering unlimited everything for a cent.

Infact some of our words attract just 5 click-through's a day, of which 1 or 2 normally signup... giving 10-20% conversion.

Thank you.

Well, if you are paying $5 per click then 10% may be possible. The question is: How much do you spend in order to get one sale. If you have a $5 per click cost and a 10% conversion ratio you are paying $50 to get one customer. I am not saying it is a bad deal, but if another company is getting 3% conversion but a sale only costs them $10 they MAY make a better deal. I am not saying they are.

Assume my last example holds true...

$5 per click. 5 clicks in a day. 1-2 signups from those clicks.

That makes a $25 adword cost convert to a couple of sales... Making the cost of a customer between $10-25.

Obviously not all of our words are so fortunate, but I would consider the above extremely cheap... infact anything up to $50 per signup I would consider a good deal.

As long as your service is up to par, you can keep a customer loyal for many years - thats exactly why we dont mind spending upwards of $50 to gain a signup - that customer is potentially worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Sure, I just wanted to point out that a 10% conversion ratio does not necessarily mean you are doing better than anyone getting a lower conversion ration because it depends on how much money you need to invest in order to make a certain amount of profit. But $50 for a non budget customer sounds like an acceptable deal.

Originally posted by UH-Matt
. . . As long as your service is up to par, you can keep a customer loyal for many years - thats exactly why we dont mind spending upwards of $50 to gain a signup - that customer is potentially worth hundreds or thousands of dollars.
Yep, especially with their word of mouth etc. :)