I just found out that http://www.cheap-web-site-hosting-services.info is owned by hostdepartment.com...

It seems more and more hosting companies are building host directories for their own advertising... What do you think about it?? do you think it creates biased opions...

Personally i think is a good and smart idea, but only when done correctly, as in don't put your own adverts all over the place..

Actually I think a large percentage of them are built this way. I know webhostdir isn't, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. Others may have more that are 'clean'

Greg Moore

Definately 3 out of the top 5 directories are involved web hosting operations. However not all of them utilise their sites for advertising promotion. I think they simply take the ad revenue generated from their directories and use the money to fund their own web hosting businesses marketing promotions elsewhere.

James,

Is your hosting dir ow involved in web hosting operations?

As a customer, it's a load of crud. Many of us rely on "webhosting directories" for honest information about possible new webhosts. If we sign up with an account with a webhost, thinking that they are going to be good because some web directory told us they were, and they aren't. Many of us do everything in our to spread the bad word about the webhost. Revenge.

I don't suggest doing it. There are better ways of getting ad revenue. Starting webmastering resources for one. PHP tutorials are becoming high in demand, primarly for templates that have little scriplets.

Originally posted by vSector
James,

Is your hosting dir ow involved in web hosting operations?

akashik already answered that, but the answer is "No".

Actually I think a large percentage of them are built this way. I know webhostdir isn't, but beyond that I couldn't say for sure. Others may have more that are 'clean' .

HostCompare.com and ResellerConnection.com are both clean :)

There was some speculation that TopHosts is closely affiliated with WebHosting.com, but I don't think anything was ever quite concluded.

Will

Originally posted by vSector
James,

Is your hosting dir ow involved in web hosting operations?

No we're not involved in any web hosting operations.

Although we are new - so not even close to being in the top 5 - we are not affliated with any hosting company.
In fact we do not even accept any forms of advertising.

Seems like for the consumer in this market - it's pretty hard to find anything unbiased.

That Sucks, As soon as you walk in you get a POP UP ad!

How much would they pay for a pop up ad these days anyway, they would just show how sucky there site is!
Providing the link in this forum is ten times as smarter though!

;)

popup stopper is great for dealing with those puppies!

They seem to have it set up as a "pop-under" ad - eventually all those web advertising "tactics" will collapse because everybody hates them and the ROI has to be incredibly bad.

Well I run my self and i do not do hosting as of yet. I ahve been thinking about it but... anyway. the host i am with now does not get any brakes from me sence they are listed on my site. I try to looks thure the reviews once and a while and if one host has 30 good reviews i remove the reviews for them.
I am trying to have a fair web site for people to use. but it is hard to keep up on the reviews some times. :mad:

laters
James

We're not affiliated with any hosting company as well.

Originally posted by NovaW
Although we are new - so not even close to being in the top 5 - we are not affliated with any hosting company.
In fact we do not even accept any forms of advertising.

So how exactly are you proposing to generate any revenue, without being "biased" in some way?

we are purely a commission on sales. The next question I am sure is how do you track a sale. We have a system setup to track when a sale occurs.

Don't get me wrong - we're not against advertising as a valid and valuable practice - we just feel in the web hosting market advertising is out of control & miss-leads the consumer.

Paid recommendations, paid spotlights - are incredibly miss-leading to consumers.

I think it may create a better world for web hosts and the webmasters... all these pay-per-click advertising may make it harder for the new hosts to start, all the potiential clients would being taken by the high bidders.

The problem with the web hosting industry at the moment is the fact that anyone can start one.. and to many ppl are.

In this situation on the best hosts that are in it for the long run will stay.

:)

Oh i forgot one thing:

You may have noticed my sig has changed to advertising Host Approval, our new web hosting directory. pay-per-click model with a starting balance of $10. Feel free to get your hosting companies listed.

vSector, I don't think self-advertising is allowed in non-ad forum.

Peter

I must admit - at first I thought a ppc engine for web hosting was a good idea - it's certainly a good revenue model,

but, whereas a general ppc engine like overture is valuable for the consumer (they get very on-topic search results coming back) - for a single subject - it seems to have literally no value for the consumer at all.

How does the amount a host is willing to pay per click to be on the top of the list tie to any added consumer value??

My strong feeling about this market is that ultimately the method that serves the consumer best, while also giving hosts an efficient way to compete will win out in the end.

With hundreds of web hosting directories out there - you'd think that finding the right hosting plan would be easy - but to the contrary it is an unholy nightmare for the consumer.

just my 2 cents

Originally posted by NovaW
we are purely a commission on sales.

I'm a little confused on how this is less biased that an advertising revenue based business model? Firstly not all hosts offer commission based sales programs, so you are already filtering those results away from the consumer. Secondly it would be illogical to promote hosts paying lower commissions above those, that are paying higher rates, so yet another "filter" is in place on the "unbiased" service you are providing.

Don't get me wrong, I think the idea is sensible, its something we've tried over the last 4-5 years on and off, but tracking is unreliable in our opinion. (I'm sure your system is much better than ours.)

But I know I speak for the other "biased" business models that visit these forums when I speak out for our own ethical standpoints. This is a consumer orientated world and as such those that pay the most whether it be via advertising or direct sales commissions, will get the best results. It has nothing to do with them being better or worse than their competitors its about money and spending it to achieve results.

The 2 filters you suggest are not part of FindMyHosting - let me comment on each

- FindMyHosting is open to 100% of hosts - it makes no difference if they have a sales commission program - we don't signup with any affliate programs, the hosts signup with our program & the commission% is set by us not the host. We have a system developed that can detect when a referred sale occured.

- Filtering by commission%. The commission% is set by us & the commission has no bearing on the order of results because it's a constant in the equation. The only factor that determines results is what the host offers.

So - as you can see, we truly are unbiased, open to 100% of the hosting market without any exception & the results returned for any search are truly objective. Our model & approach is unique and innovative.

There are a lot of other elements to our model, Hosting Assured is a trustmark and offers to mediate problems (will mediate even of the host is not hosting assured but the host was found in FindMyHosting)

Your last point is very well taken, of course FindMyHosting will ultimately be one channel, advertising will always be a valid marketing channel. The key in any market (from a customer perspective) is to have a balance between objective information & promotional information. Our aim is address that balance. The hosting market today is a long way from being even close to efficient. FindMyHosting is good for the hosting company as well as the consumer - with our model - the small hosting company can compete on it's merits with the large company that can afford a large ad budget.

Bottom line it's a win-win for everybody.

Originally posted by NovaW

So - as you can see, we truly are unbiased, open to 100% of the hosting market without any exception & the results returned for any search are truly objective.

Thanks for clearing up the two issues i highlighted. But, i still dont see this any less biased that advertising. From what youve said, hosts have to pay an agreed commission rate determined by you? So in the same way we wouldnt promote a company who has small budget you wont promote a company that isnt willing to pay your commission rates?

I apologise if i'm missing the point somewhere but from what i can see you are no less biased than any of us trying to make a living from the web hosting industry. You want to sell hosting services in exchange for revenue (in your case commission, in mine its ad revenue) We both choose to promote only those companies which conform to our terms of promotion. (strictly speaking that isnt always the case because most directories still maintain free listings)

There is simply no such thing as unbiased in the world of business.

Your point is well taken.

No resource ever captures 100% of a market - it's always a choice if the provider wants to be part of any sales channel, but our statement of unbiased results is still very valid.

For hosts that are part of FindMyHosting a consumer can expect & rely on an unbiased respresentation of the data. We'll never claim to encompass the totality of the market - i don't think any sensible consumer would expect that from any resource.

It's ultimately a choice for the consumer - information you can trust to be objective, or information that is profiled based off advertising spending. A very common complaint in the web hosting market is that it is very difficult to find web hosting - which when you think about it is crazy. Consumers generally don't like finding info via billboards, unless they have no other choice.

Our whole model is rooted in a belief that we are just better for the consumer, while offering a valid & useful channel to hosting companies. The rest is to some degree semantics - but in every market the customer eventually decides. So far we have had some tremendous validation of our model.

Sorry to keep labouring the point here, I'm still intrigued on how you can pertain to offer unbiased representation when your search results appear in a list format. Surely those at the top of the list are getting greater representation that those at the bottom?

I agree advertising can be overwhelming for some buyers, which is why most directories offer a wide range of alternatives for consumers to source their providers. Search results, awards, reviews, interviews, message boards, directories, articles and of course flashy ads.

No problem to clarify further.

Yes the results come in a list format. The order is plans that meet the requirement ordered by price. Lowest price first.

Now of course you could say we are biased on price. This gives the consumer the opportunity to make better choices - they may not choose the lowest price, there are many other factors that a host can use to differentiate. The main point is we add no bias.

You make the point that no market is unbiased "no such thing as unbiased in the world of business" - entirely correct - we are not saying that the market is unbiased - we are just saying that we add no bias. Take Ebay as an example - They are a market maker, they are unbiased. Of course they do not offer every available item in the world, but for what they offer to the consumer they create no added bias on the information.

Fundamentally - being unbiased means we (FindMyHosting) add no bias - we are a level playing field vs a billboard. We don't accept any payment or offer any ability for any host to gain an advantage via our system. The only method that a host can gain an advantage is via creating their own competitive advantage themselves. Being unbiased means we simply facilitate the bringing together of buyer & seller in a way that benefits the consumer and the host. We will be providing detailed market info to the hosts to allow them to adjust their competitive situation.

As mentioned in a prior post - ultimately the decider will be the consumer and what they find valuable. We are very confident in our model for this reason.

Originally posted by James Cross
I agree advertising can be overwhelming for some buyers, which is why most directories offer a wide range of alternatives for consumers to source their providers. Search results, awards, reviews, interviews, message boards, directories, articles and of course flashy ads.

As i said earlier i agree about some forms of advertising being a little overwhelming for certain consumers. which is why we offer far more than a list of companies ordered by price or size of ad placement. I wish adding value to the purchase chain was as simple as you make out, but it takes more in terms of time and investment to provide the service you are illuding to.

I do agree time will tell who provides a better service, and more importantly who the vendors choose as their business partners.

Agreed.

Also - i hope that in our discussion it did not seem that I was in any way knocking your site. You have created a very comprehensive and valuable resource in todays market. I will also comment that I personally have the utmost respect for the creation of any business that has developed to the scale of a site like yours. That is no small challenge.

You are also right that there are many challenges to creating value to the chain - we do not overlook them and fully expect it to be long journey. It'll be interesting to see how such a dynamic market like this develops over the next few years

regards

Thank you for the compliments, and apologies if I came across in a hostile way during any of my posts. As you can understand I have come to form some strong opinions on this industry over the years, and my nature is to defend the principles our company works by.

I too respect anyone who has the drive to go it alone and start their own business, especially those that are blazing new trails rather that following an established route (if you know what I mean)

Thanks for the lively debate I look forward to another one sometime soon ;)