I am a reseller of Bulkregister.com ever since its launch. Over the years, it has been difficult using BR for registering domains, since they not only are expensive than other registrars, but also lack any enduser access to their records.

However today's incident with them has given the final blow to reseller relations. Do check on the following communication between me and their Billing Dept. over a domain which was transfered out of BR after renewing with them. BR refused to credit me with the 1 year renewal I paid them for, nor do they want to refund the amount to me citing their powers to decide arbitrarily whether they want to renew the domain within a 45 day grace period.

Read the following in your own interest so that you do not end up losing money with such fraud companies:

My message to BR:

Dear Sir,

The domain AMRUTE.COM was held with you till January 2005. This domain had expired on 27-Dec-2004 and renewed with you. A corresponding charge of $12 was applied to my card Ref. no. 9266107 and 9266108. Simultaneously, the domain was applied for Registry transfer to Onlinenic.

Onlinenic has stated that the domain renewal said above had failed, and hence the expiry date when they received the domain was yet 27-Dec-04. They further extended the domain by 1 year and thus the expiry date is now at 27-Dec-05. Can you confirm that the domain renewal at BR had indeed failed, and if so, refund the amount to my credit card.

Thanks,
Ninad Gupte

BR Response to me:

Dear Member,

Thank you for contacting Bulkregister. This domain was renewed on 01/05/05. By someone that has access to the account. There is a 45-day grace period once a domain is renewed. That the current registrar has the option to gave or take the year that was just paid for. I can send this to our engineer they can reach this for you.

Kenise
Billing Department

My response to BR:

Hello,

As per your response, I was expecting to hear from your engineer about why the domain renewal was withdrawn. I was shocked to see that the ticket was simply closed. Please either have the domain re-extended for 1 year as we have already paid you, or refund the amount to my credit card.

Regards,
Ninad Gupte

BR Response to me:

Ninad,

I my last reply I was telling that was an option. I have sent this to the engineers. Basically this domain was renewed on 01/05/05 05:40:40. We received the request to transfer this domain on 01/05/05 and it was release at 20:52:38. There is a 45-day grace period. We are unable to apply the year the domain cause it is no longer with us.

Thank you,
Kenise
Billing Department


My response to BR:

Since the renewal was done at 05:40:40 and released to OnlineNIC at 20:52:38 on the same day, the domain should have been extended at 05:40:40 itself. I wonder why this was not done.

Anyways, if you are unable to renew the domain, you should be refunding the said amount of $12 to my credit card. Pls proceed on the same.

Regards,
Ninad

BR Response to me:

Ninad,

You were in the 45-day grace period when this domain was transferred to another registrar. We will be unable to credit you for this renewal. As a registrar we have the option to not renew a domain within this time frame.

Kenise
Billing Department


My response to BR:

Thanks for giving me another reason never to deal with you again. I am going to voice this on newsgroups and forums to make your other resellers aware of your hidden tactics of charging the amount but not carrying out the extension, only because the registry has awarded you with a 45 day grace to tackle chargebacks. You are certainly misusing your powers and I not going to be silent over this issue.

I have been dealing with Alabanza and BR since 1997 and I did not expect Tom to lower his company to such standards and ethics.

Good Bye!

Originally posted by iPole

However today's incident with them has given the final blow to reseller relations. Do check on the following communication between me and their Billing Dept. over a domain which was transfered out of BR after renewing with them. BR refused to credit me with the 1 year renewal I paid them for, nor do they want to refund the amount to me citing their powers to decide arbitrarily whether they want to renew the domain within a 45 day grace period.



The 45 day period has been discussed here before. i think this is a registry policy not specific to bulk.

http://www.icann.org/announcements/advisory-06jun02.htm

Registrar Advisory Concerning Registration Transfers Within the Auto-Renew Grace Period

The purpose of this advisory is to assist ICANN-accredited registrars in understanding the effect of transfers of sponsorship of registrations between registrars that occur while a name is within the Auto-Renew Grace Period.

The Grace Period Policy for every TLD for which ICANN accredits registrars is set forth in Appendix C to the relevant registry agreement. In the case of .com, .net, and .org TLDs the policy is available at <http://www.icann.org/tlds/agreements/verisign/registry-agmt-appc-16apr01.htm#3>. Similar policies will apply in .biz, .info, and .pro, but will not have effect until registrations in these TLDs begin expiring in late 2002. Accordingly, this advisory uses the .com/.net/.org policy as an illustration.

The Grace Period Policy defines the "Auto-Renew Grace Period" as follows:

"The Auto-Renew Grace Period is a specified number of calendar days following an auto-renewal. An auto-renewal occurs if a domain name registration is not renewed by the expiration date; in this circumstance the registration will be automatically renewed by the system the first day after the expiration date. The current value of the Auto-Renew Grace Period is 45 calendar days."

In other words, when a domain-name registration reaches its expiration date, it gets renewed for one-year automatically by the registry. The .com/.net/.org registry charges the registrar a US$6.00 fee for the new one-year registration term. The registration is then subject to the "Auto-Renew Grace Period", under which the following special rules regarding transfers between registrars apply:

Transfer (other than ICANN-approved bulk transfer). If a domain is transferred under Part A of Exhibit B to the Registry-Registrar Agreement within the Auto-Renew Grace Period, the losing Registrar is credited with the Auto-Renew charge* and the year added by the Auto-Renew operation is cancelled. The expiration date of the domain is extended by one year up to a total maximum of ten by virtue of the transfer and the gaining Registrar is charged for that additional year, even in cases where a full year is not added because of the 10-year maximum limitation.

Bulk Transfer (with ICANN approval). Bulk transfers with ICANN approval may be made during the Auto-Renew Grace Period according to the procedures in Part B of Exhibit B to the Registry-Registrar Agreement. The expiration dates of transferred registrations are not affected. The losing Registrar's account is charged for the Auto-Renew.

(*Note: this is true despite the language in Appendix G that states that "The losing registrar's registration fees will not be refunded as a result of any ... transfer." In effect, the losing registrar is not receiving a refund of paid registration fees, it is just in a position to avoid incurring a permanent charge for the one-year registration term going forward.)

Based on these rules (again, these are the current rules from the .com/.net/.org registry "Grace Period Policy"), registrars receive a credit equal to the US$6.00 auto-renewal fee for every registration that is transferred away within 45 days of its auto-renewal.

The rationale for this "refund rule" with respect to names that are transferred away during the Auto-Renew Grace Period is that the losing registrar will no longer be sponsoring the name in the registry for the remainder of the year and should not bear the cost of maintaining its registration. The gaining registrar is charged US$6.00 for the one-year associated with transfer of sponsorship of the name. The system's design allows registrants to transfer their names to a new registrar within 45 days after the expiration of their registration with no resulting registry fees to the losing registrar.

Registrants who transfer names within the 45-day Auto-Renew Grace Period should check with the registrar from which they are transferring regarding a possible refund. Even though losing registrars receive refunds of auto-renewal fees they have paid to the registry in these circumstances, not all registrars make refunds to customers. The effect of failure of the losing registrar to refund is that the registrant pays registration fees to both the losing registrar (for the auto-renew) and to the gaining registrar (for the transfer), but only receives a one-year extension of term.

In summary, registrars should note (and advise their customers) that in most cases where a name is transferred within 45 days after its expiration/renewal date, the successfully transferred registration will only be extended by one year, not two years as might be expected. In such cases, the transfer during the Auto-Renew Grace Period simultaneously triggers a removal of the auto-renewed year and a credit to the losing registrar, and a charge to the gaining registrar for the year added to the registration term as a result of the transfer.

in short words, if you transfer domain within the first 45days after renewal you will lose the 1 year renewal at the losing registrar.

bad bulkregister didn't deny the transfer like other registrars do till this period is passed (some registrars like enom blocks in the first 60 days)

Thanks for your replies.

However is my case also termed as "Auto-Renew"? Because I have specifically done a renewal of the domain by submitting my credit card information after the expiry date. I dont think this can be classified as Auto-Renew by the registrar, as they had not renewed the domain till the time I authorised the renewal of it.

I wonder why ICANN in spite of refunding the money, allows the registrar to decide at their sole discretion whether they want to refund the same amount to the customer or not.

Moreover, I wonder what would the losing registrar have done had this CC transaction been charged-back by me?

Regards,
Ninad

it has nothing todo with auto-renewal this apply for 'ANY' renewal transaction.

doing a chargeback is possible but its very bad since they didn't violate any rules and this is how it goes with ICANN, and they can alwaus fight with CC company and prove it to them and you never get a chargeback...

It's upon the gaining registrar to add an extra year or not. Nothing to do with Bulkregister specifically..........

gaining registrar is adding a year on both cases, but the lost year is the one not carried over from the losing registrar (incase of the first 45days afte rrenewal)