Well the horrible service from Dialtone continues... Ever since the second week of service with them, my server was down almost daily. I have posted the problems before so I will not post them again but this latest problem has really made me mad.

Even with the horrible service, I honored by 6 month contract with them (since they would not cancel it for me even though I could not run a commercial site there with all the problems... I guess this is how they keep customers) and canceled my server in accord with the contract terms. I send them a certified return receipt letter of cancellation 30 days before the expiration date of the contract. I also got a call from Rolando on my voice mail where he acknowledged the cancellation. Even with all this, they still keep on charging my credit card, and will not cancel the contract or server. I have contacted billing numerous times and even escalated the request. They refuse to reply so it looks like I will have to go through the hassle of doing a charge back.

Just another reason to stay way from this horrible company!

Scott

So your server was down? That is of course your responsibilty unless you are on a managed contract.

If you are saying that there was a lack of connectivity for any sustained period of time then I find that difficult to believe as I have had a server there for the last 5 months with virtually no connectivity problems.

Its unfortuante that you have had a bad experience. Keep your head high, there are some good companies out there that will make you happy. Hope your business continues to grow through the horrible ups and downs of the business environment.

Several people here (myself included) have servers with them and have had satisfactory service. I've had one a bit over 6 months now and nothing substantial to complain about. Quite the contrary, tech support has even called me to make sure things were resolved to my satisfaction. That is not the mark of a horrible company. Apathy and incompetence are, and DI does not exhibit any of the former although some of the newer technicians are not at the same level of knowledge as older ones.

I can forgive the occasional delay in resolving a minor problem when they have such an exemplary attitude and generally high level of service.

Connectivity has been great and constant.

I'm sorry to hear you had a problem, but it hardly fits their pattern and certainly does not classify them as a horrible company.

Dave and Duster, what do your remarks have to do with his complaint?!


He clearly posted because he is still getting billed for a server that he has cancelled. He said "canceled my server in accord with the contract terms", and is still getting billed......then you two come here and talk about tech support.....what does tech support have to do with billing someone when they are not supposed to?


Have either of you two tried to cancel your server yet? Of course not, so how do you guys know what cancelling is like? You dont.

Well,

I had a server with DI for 6 months and experienced no technical difficulties whatsoever. But, I have had the frustration of trying to cancel my account with them as well. I hate to say anything bad about them since they have been very good to me. The problem arose out of my own disorganization as well as my requests to DI not being replied to quickly enough. I had asked their sales department to email me a copy of my contract along with my renewal date for almost 2 months before the end of my contract (I misplaced mine in a move). To make a long story short, I missed the deadline (by 1 week), therefore my contract was "automatically" renewed for another 6 months. After several emails and pleading my case to Jorge Quintero, he allowed me to end my contract.

Like I said, they were excellent for the 6 months I was there and I have to take responsibility for my own disorganization which led to this situation.

There are 2 reasons why I decided to leave:

1) 95th percentile method of calculating bandwidth (I averaged 10-11 GB at DI and am now averaging 5-6 GB at Ultraspeed with even more accounts on the server).

2) CPanel3 and WHM combo from UltraspeedUSA

UPDATE: I received an email from Jorge Quintero stating that he has resolved the issue with the outstanding invoice, and therefore I will not be charged. I have therefore removed that part of my post.

[Edited by tabernack on 12-13-2000 at 09:35 PM]

DaveC#,

If you would of taken a few minutes to READ the ENTIRE message and lookup the old posts which I referred to, you would see what the problem IS instead of interjecting what you THINK on this matter... Since you only have the time to post, and not read, I will lay it out clear so you have to read very little.

- My server was down due to the fact that the network cables Dialtone used on my server went bad on 2 different occasions. It took them over a month to fix it the first time and few weeks the second time. So this is that my responsibility since it is not a managed server? Well I guess I should of jumped on an airplane and flew to Florida to fix it :)
- The connectivity problems were again caused by the bad cables which they failed to fix properly.

But that was not the issue here... Again we have to learn to read. As Greg pointed out, the problem I posted about was the billing problem.

Most of you guys need to learn when dealing with a company, the service you get varies depending on a number of factors. And epically when dealing with dedicated servers. Just because you received good service from a company and have not had problems doesn't mean other people haven't and you should discount their options. I have been seeing this happen too many times on this board lately... If someone has a legitimate complaint with a company then let them freely post their comments for other users to make their decision about that company. But interjecting what you think about a situation that you have NO knowledge over is inappropriate.

Scott

Hi Scott,

I would recommend you speak directly with Jorge regarding your billing issue. He has always been very responsive whenever I have sent him an email directly. If you feel that speaking to the billing department hasn't gotten you anywhere, he would be the best person to speak to.

I agree that everyone's experience can vary, which is why I did not "interject" but merely expressed my experience with them as well. :)

I hope you get this resolved.

Thanks Tabernack... I have been in contact with Rolando and he talks like he can get something done, we will have to see. I also talked to him about the problems I had with my server in the last 6 months and he seemed shocked when looking over the old support tickets and all my problems. Hopefully he will be able to prevent this from happening in the future to other customers.

Scott

Rolando is a great guy. Like I said before, they've always been great with me. And if you ever have a beef with them, they are always willing to listen (just use the escalation process and you'll get resolution) :)

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Originally posted by Greg
Dave and Duster, what do your remarks have to do with his complaint?!
Mine speak to the attitude of the company and his characterization of it as horrible. I used as example of their concern that customers be satisfied. Perhaps you misunderstood. It was not strictly about technical support but the overall attitude, which is of paramount importance.

We all make mistakes and miss things on occasion, and DI is no exception. However, with a proper attitude, those issues will generally be resolved in a satisfactory manner.

It is infinitely better than the pattern at some other hosts who are apathetic as well as incompetent. I have zero tolerance for them and their lousy attitudes.

Does that answer your question satisfactorily?

If so, we can close this ticket! ;-D

I likewise have had a bad experience with DI. Recently our server was attacked by a small DOS attack and of course they charged 4 times because they couldn't resolve the problem the first time saying they fixed it every time. They terminated the account for denying access to other members. Although I can understand their reasoning, we had installed all the listed updates and resolved all the security issues they posted, but they still blatently blamed us for the attack. Despite that big problem, their support was incompetent and slow. As an example, they logged 27 minutes spent on the problem (which they charged $67.50 for) to reset the password. They also have problems with the complete system they use for support. When you have an urgent problem, there is a checkbox to add with the ticket to authorize charges, and while that was checked the problem took an extra day to resolve because they requested authorization for charges 3 additional times. I also get the feeling that they don't have the bandwidth or redundancy for their customers because when there is an outage on their connection (about 2 or 3 times a month) your server is barely accessible. Needless to say, we have moved since.

I have been very happy with Dialtone Internet. Just like Tabernack, I have use other providers and I know what is up there. I still use 2 companies and they are one of them. I have had 2 major issues and when I escalated to a data center manager is fixed.

As for their network, I have to strongly disagree because that is one of the things what we do, we run a service similar to redalert.com that pings web sites every 5 minutes for availability, and we measure our own machines from redalert.com and believe me, I will not be with them if they were under 99.5%,.

jw: You mention: "They terminated the account for denying access to other members" They terminated your server? That means that you were attacking someone or at least if you were offering shells then maybe your customer did. I think this is your fault. Security on your server is your responsibility, I have a firewall with Digital NAtion and a Firewall with Dialtone plus we do not allow shell or eggdrops.

Anyway, good luck with your new provider. Just like the majority here I am happy with Dialtone.

Regards,

Tony

I tried Dialtone in October--I took advantage of their "30 day test drive." I was fairly pleased with them... However, I didn't tend to get any response to tech requests on the weekend. They say 24x7, but it was Sunday evening before I got a response, whereas on weekdays the responses usually came the same day (that's good!) The main reason I took the refund was because of their "95th percentile method" of biling bandwidth... make sure you understand what this means before signing up! According bandwidth measurement methods I'd used before, I was at 90 GB of bandwidth usage per month, so I was figuring on just a bit of extra bandwidth I would have to purchase... However, with the 95th percentile method, you are charged based on your PEAK times, which is much much higher (maybe even triple?) the other way of measuring bandwidth. After realizing this problem, I moved my sites asap because the bandwidth charges alone would have been close to $2000. That's quite a jump when I normally could pay $600-800/mo for a dedicated server with that level of bandwidth.

In regard to the problem with canceling, I submitted my request on a Thursday, and had to contact them 2-3 times before the refund was finally credited to my account... I think it was about 10 days later. But it was refunded in full, as promised. (Just not immediate, as promised.)

All in all, looking over the other comments about DI, they still might be worth a shot... They seem to have adequate resources... just be wary of the bandwidth billing method if you have a high traffic site.

Just do your homework before you take on a company and most of these problems (execpt billing of course) would be avoided. It only takes a second to see that they use the 95% so if you dont like that then dont sign up, I will tell you now and im sure others will agree, their billing has always had problems and leaves alot to be desired. I personally would not recommend any newbies to go with them, other NOC's such as VDI will actually help you with a problem with any software they put on the server (no $65 per half hour) , and if you do have downtime they are willing to help since it is their server. Unless you co-lo then I beleive its not up to you to fix ever problem that arises although you should know how to. You are leasing these machine just like you lease a car, your dealership still owns it so its best for them and for the sake of repeat business to repair that vehicle unless you intentially caused to problem.

Not quite a month ago, I went with DialTone based on the recommendations I found here, and it didn't work out, at least for me.

Some of the things said here seem true: they are friendly, attentive and open, and the techs I've spoken to are a cut above those at the other companies I've used.

But . . .

I found numerous 'features' that seemed to be serious problems -- I'm a Linux newbie so you'll have to judge for yourself.

The worst problem is that the exact character of their hosting arrangement can only be determined AFTER you sign up. For example, I was surprised to discover that not only was I going to have to manage my own DNS, but that I would be 'self-hosting' both nameservers. As a result, a server crash will not only take you offline, but will kill the nameservice. I'm told that this is NOT a good thing.

Their standard server contract includes language that gives them the right to impose unlimited charges on customers if they "spam" and also allows them to redefine "spam" without prior notice. Since this legally gave them the ability to claim my house, bank account, and car (they assured me that they wouldn't do this, but they wouldn't remove the lanquage, either.) we negotiated a month-to-month contract, that allowed them to redefine their spam definitions monthly, and me to cancel without penalty, if I didn't like the changes. I thought I could cancel within term, but now they are saying that I agreed to 30 days prior notice. I was willing to pay the $289 for the first 28 days (I'd knowingly given up the 30 free trial) but getting billed for the second 30 days (next month) has been a nasty surprise.

Up front, they assure you that they setup secure servers, but warn that YOU are responsible for security and for charges which they apply if you are hacked. This being the case, you'd expect that they supply a 'locked down' box, which you can open up as needed. However, here's what I found in their httpd "access.conf" file:

<Directory />
Options IncludesNOEXEC MultiViews
FollowSymLinks ExecCGI Indexes
AllowOverride All
</Directory>

Obviously, this is wide open, in direct contradiction to the default Apache install recommendations. What's more, you can NOT change this, since doing so will kill the Server Interface of which they were so proud. They could have done it differently, but they've scattered the interface files all over the machine, and fixing the problem would have required a bunch of symlinks and 'per-directory' setups. I guess they didn't have time to do it right. Anyhow, you *can* kill the SI, but when you do, all support goes out the window.

Making things worse, the server interface never worked properly for me: this may have been a fluke, but they never figured it out.

Worse, all their support and ticket system pages require a password, which the initial "server UP!" email warns you against changing. Guess what password? Root, of course! It turns out you can REQUEST a separate password, but this is not currently documented.

And, for those of you hosting with them, try going to port 82, instead of port 81 (server interface port). Use the same format or URL you use to go the Server Interface, but change the port to "82". This undocumented and abandoned feature still works, in some rather scary ways.

What made me really paranoid was seeing that the expected port scans graduated to active entry attempts two days after my server was up. Given the apparently (from my point of view) insecure default setup, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some elements of the hacker community have learned how to break the default DialTone boxes, and routinely try to backdoor systems as they go live.

Given that they unhesitatingly charge you for any time spent on security problems, you make want to negotiate an upgrade to RH 7.0 or 6.2, and elimination of the Server Interface up front. Also, you should request that they initially set up your account with both a system root password, and a SEPARATE password for their support systems.

I could go on, but I won't, except to say that once I indicated that I was going to cancel -- politely and reluctantly at first -- all the 'niceness' evaporated. I think this is in part because my sales person has not met her quota, and is desperate. The morning I called her, she'd already had another cancellation, also due to security problems. In any case, I'm doing the "Priority Mail with tracking and return receipt" cancellation dance.

My impression is that they may be generally good people who don't have the time to do their jobs properly, and possibly, that they've got their backs to the wall financially.

As always, the rule is *caveat emptor*, and I obviously wasn't wary enough. Hopefully, some of this info can help other people avoid problem. Possibly, if folks asked about these issues before signing up, they'd make changes.

PoolDoc

PS: I assume Jorge is the CEO. I don't have his email, and when I tried to reply to some of their responses, the ticket system kicked it out as too long. (I included their response, in order to respond point-by-point.) Feel free to forward this to him. I really get the impression that they are trying to be a good company, but not quite making it. He/you/they can reply to dialtone@pmbwebpages.com.

Hi PoolDoc it looks like you are a problematic client or one of those "I have time to bother companies" person.

I seen similar posts from you about many other providers all over the web...,.

You have no meat on the email,... The same way their control panel works is the same way the others like Alabanza, VDI, or Cobalt works, you start deleting or changing stuff on the .conf files and see if things are going to continue to work the same.

I hope you post their answers including all of the security concerns you had, and maybe posted on the web, if you are fair.

Also, by you mentioning RedHat 7.0 tells me that you haven't done your home work, 7.0 is very, very unsecured as of now.

Good luck to you and to the other provider that have you...

Romero

Hi Romero;

I'd definitely am the kind of person who tries to find out what can go wrong before, rather than after, it bites. No doubt, this is poor planning on my part.

But, what really interests me is that you've read lots of similar posts from me about other suppliers elsewhere. I'd be fascinated to know exactly where you've seen these posts, since in 5 years I have posted exactly ONE other post on ANY forum or newsgroup in which I mentioned a host or ISP by name. That post was regarding AIT, Inc, and is on this forum. And, I think if you do some checking, you'll find that the way I described AIT is very moderate compared to other posters (excluding the posts from AIT employees).

I'd be grateful if you could identify exactly where you've seen another similar post.

Or, perhaps you are suffering from EED (Exaggeration Excess Disorder). If so, let me know, and I will grant you the consideration required by law, for those with handicaps.

Sincerely,

PoolDoc

PS: I know my original post was long: perhaps since you had so little time to reply, you didn't have time to read it all. But the Server Interface failed BEFORE I changed ANYTHING!.

Jorge Quintero is VP Business Operations. Alvaro Albarracin is DI's CEO and you may contact him at ceo@

PoolDoc,

I think you are the one suffering from EED (Exaggeration Excess Disorder). It is obvious for your long post.

You know what other post you made before..,. I don't have the time... This is a dead issue, we should just simply run a survey on who likes certain companies and who don't.

For example, I happen to like AIT too, you can't beat $2 per month share hosting they offer.

Going back to the Dialtone post you placed, I have email to their complains email and ask them to answer you at dialtone@pmbwebpages.com I also copied your post as you gave us permission. I hope you post their response.

Yours truly,

Romero

I think I'm suffering from Exaggeration Excess Disorder, wait... nope, it was just the Taco Bell. *wink*

Let'd just keep it moving folks, nothing to see here... nothing to see...

Originally posted by romero
For example, I happen to like AIT too, you can't beat $2 per month share hosting they offer.
Do a search on them here before you sign up with them. You'll be a moron and/or masochist if you use them after you read the information available about them.
It's better to be smart and informed.

I have recieved permission from Dialtone to post responses to some of the specific issues raised here as a kind of 'right to reply'


Up front, they assure you that they setup secure servers, but warn that YOU are responsible for security and for charges which they apply if you are hacked. This being the case, you'd expect that they supply a 'locked down' box, which you can open up as needed. However, here's what I found in their httpd "access.conf" file:

<Directory />
Options IncludesNOEXEC MultiViews
FollowSymLinks ExecCGI Indexes
AllowOverride All
</Directory>

Obviously, this is wide open, in direct contradiction to the default Apache install recommendations. What's more, you can NOT change this, since doing so will kill the Server Interface of which they were so proud. They could have done it differently, but they've scattered the interface files all over the machine, and fixing the problem would have required a bunch of symlinks and 'per-directory' setups. I guess they didn't have time to do it right. Anyhow, you *can* kill the SI, but when you do, all support goes out the window.


Dialtone say
While it is correct that Apache recommends "AllowOverride None", it should be pointed out that the ordinary users do not have write permission (privileges) to the root directory or permissions to modify root-owned scripts. These settings could lead to security problems if the administrator explicitly gave users write permissions to the root directory, which would be a HUGE security problem regardless of the setting mentioned above.

Yes, in some aspects it is a security problem. However, the likelihood of it being exploited are relatively low.

One of the reasons it is set this way is to allow CGI scripts to exist in other directories than just /cgi-bin/, to allow the function of .htaccess files without specifying the configuration implicitly per virtual host, and in general, to add functionality to the web server that normally would not be available to a normal user that most people want anyway.

We are also taking into consideration your comments about this issue. If you know of a way this can currently be exploited, please let us know. We are not aware of any.

Making things worse, the server interface never worked properly for me: this may have been a fluke, but they never figured it out.

Worse, all their support and ticket system pages require a password, which the initial "server UP!" email warns you against changing. Guess what password? Root, of course! It turns out you can REQUEST a separate password, but this is not currently documented.
And, for those of you hosting with them, try going to port 82, instead of port 81 (server interface port). Use the same format or URL you use to go the Server Interface, but change the port to "82". This undocumented and abandoned feature still works, in some rather scary ways.



Dialtone sayPort 82 is a password changer. It is documented in the httpsd.conf file. Works rather nicely. We are not sure what scared you about it. It was not abandoned, and customers are using it. I haven't heard of any
problems with it.

What made me really paranoid was seeing that the expected port scans graduated to active entry attempts two days after my server was up. Given the apparently (from my point of view) insecure default setup, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some elements of the hacker community have learned how to break the default DialTone boxes, and routinely try to backdoor systems as they go live.

Dialtone saySecurity expert claim the average "always on" server (including cable modem and DSL links) is scanned over 20 times a day, and sometimes 40-50 times. Since this activity is external to our network, we can not stop it.