Hi all,

I need some help finding a good source for hardware. One of my home systems, my main system, is four years old now. I have a newer/faster system, that's basically my wife's, but it's just a crappy Compaq. I just picked up a 3rd drive, a WD 60 Gig, and came to find out that my system doesn't support it. I'm looking for a new board (and CPU), but all the one's I find all seem to have crap like onboard/integrated video, sound and/or network cards. I do _not_ want to have onboard stuff;

The reasons why onboard sucks [skip this rant, if you don't care and move down to my specs I seek];

A: I want to use my own cards, not have extra stuff just sitting on the board and more stuff = more potential for problems!

B: If something goes wrong or breaks, you need an entire board in most cases -- that's just stupid to build them that way and I can't imagine someone that's serious about computers would use such a thing (for many reasons)! [I wouldn't buy a car if all the stuff on the engine was welded on either, for obvious reasons].

C: If something like the video goes out, you can't boot the system, unless you bypass the onboard with your own card, and you might be unlucky enough to not be able to have that option if it 'breaks right'.

D: Onboard stuff uses resources that I want free, and it won't delay or tie things up, even if it is just milliseconds in some cases. Onboard is stupid. I wanted to be clear that I don't want any information about boards that have this crap. I want a server-quality system, or close, even though I'm not going to be running an online server (but it will be used as one at home on my network).

E: Bad experiences with "integrated" stuff personally and I see no advantage other than a price cut, and saving money usually costs you problems.

That all said, here's what I need, if anyone knows of any good sources, please do tell me;

* Support for IDE DMA 33/66/100 (all of them).

* Must support large drives up to 60 ot 80 Gig's.

* Support for at least 3 IDE UDMA drives (from DMA 33 to 100), and room for a CD ROM and of course, a floppy).

* Ability to use SCSI preferable, but not needed.

* Support for PC133 SDRAM DIMMS (168 pin or whatever it is).

* Support ~1.0 GHZ CPU (at least 800 mhz and up to whatever would be good, but _not_ something that will require that I _have_ to use at least 1.5+ GHZ or higher).

* At least 4 PCI slots. I don't care about ISA. If it has ISA, fine, but if not, that's fine.

* Something with at least a 100 MHZ bus.

* Note: Single or Dual CPU is fine.

Pretty simple, common things, as you can see. However, I find one lacking something (like not DMA 33 support) or an integrated NIC or whatever -- I don't know why this is so difficult.

Finally, I'll need a CPU and probably a good cooling system. I am looking for probably a ~1.2 GIG CPU, either AMD or Pentium. I'd probably prefer an AMD Athlon. I'm not interested in the Duron's, and for Pentium, I'm not interested in the P4's, and definitely _not_ interested in any Celeron®. Don't even wonder if I might want a Cyrix or anything. :-) * Note: Single or Dual CPU is fine.

So, the board, the CPU and a cooling fan should do it, although I will probably need a case too, since my current case is pretty short and the new board won't fit in it well, if at all.

As you can see, I'm not up to speed on all the new models and brands, etc. I've been using the same system for four years and have no reason or need to upgrade, until now. So, I don't want to get trapped picking up something with good specs and find out the hard way that it's an unstable model, etc.

Right now, I'm looking for an AMD Athlon ~1 GIG CPU (from 800 MHZ to 1.7 GHZ), and an ASUS board that will support it. I'm just having trouble finding a good combination. Since I've ot been buying hardware for so long, I'm sort of out of the loop, and any suggestions or insight or experiences or any such information like that, would be greatly appreciated. I need to get this ordered today or tomorrow (hopefully I'll find something in the next few minutes). I want it to be cost effective (I'm not looking for the most expensive, highest-ended system, not that I'll be opposed to it if I decide to), but I want it to be quality stuff too. It must not pose any conflicts or issues with any OS [I don't know why it would, but I've seen it happen before]; (Linux Slackware, Redhat 6.0, 6.1, 6.2, 7.0, 7.1, 7.2, Caldera, Debian, Mandrake, SuSe, FreeBSD, OpenBSD and NetBSD -- I have a multi-, multi-, multi-boot system. :-) In the meantime, I'll continue looking and researching. Thanks a lot!

[I'm still checking out Ebay, Tigerdirect, directron, etc.]

Come on people, give a dog a bone! My Grandfather has a faster system than I do, and all he does with it is check email! (seriously).

Originally posted by Tim_Greer
D: Onboard stuff uses resources that I want free, and it won't delay or tie things up, even if it is just milliseconds in some cases. Onboard is stupid. I wanted to be clear that I don't want any information about boards that have this crap. I want a server-quality system, or close, even though I'm not going to be running an online server (but it will be used as one at home on my network).

It's funny you should mention 'server-quality system' as most 1U servers (Dell 1550/1650 for example) run with on-board components.

I wouldn't "not pick" a board just because it had on-board components. If the board is good and is what you are looking for, just disable those on-board components.

Look into ABit, Asus, Tyan, and Gigabyte boards. They're top quality boards. As for a good source, use pricewatch.com to find some well-priced companies and search their product list for other types of boards to see how good their prices are.

Hope that helps. :)

Thanks for the comments. Looking more and more, I see this is more and more the facts of the matter. I suppose if all these components are, is just add on's that will not conflict or interfere with the circuitry if they do break, then I'll be bypassing them anyway for the sake of using superior cards for these components anyway. Like having 2 outlets used on a 10 outlet power conditioner... the other's not being used doesn't make a difference. So, if the case is indeed that, then I'll not stress about it as much. Again, thanks for the comments.

Well, I ended up getting the following;

Soyo SY-K7VDragon Plus mother board.
AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4 GHZ CPU.
256 megs DDR 2100 RAM.
A nice heatsink/fan and case/power supply.

I got it all for ~$450 new, with shipping it was a little more. I didn't want to try and be too cheap and get it used or from some place I couldn't trust would deliver, deliver on time or at all, let alone to have my credit card information. So, I'm happy with this choice. If anyone's looking for a good board/combination, check this board out, it's really impressive and has everything I wanted and more.

The specs and information about this board, are unbelievable and everyone that uses it or anything close has been really happy. This will be an incredible difference from my current AMD K6-266 MHZ CPU w/ it's pitiful 66 MHZ BUS, etc. I looked high and low, and not only was the price good, but the ratings and reviews put this board at the top. The CPU is also, as many know, very good too. Now I have to wait up to a week to get it (the hard part).

I hope it fits in your case!

Simon

Originally posted by SimonMc
I hope it fits in your case!

Simon

I must have forgot to post that part. Yes, I got a new case (w/ a power supply, of course), too (included in the price above). There's no way it would have fit in my current case -- I could tell immediately by looking at the picture of the board. I even almost didn't think about the memory issue and that my PC133 SDRAM would not have worked. I made sure the CPU and RAM supported the 266 MHZ bus on the board. It's pretty cool too, as it can support 8 IDE devices or a RAID system. This board rates very well. The last time I bought any hardware was four years ago, so I didn't have any idea it would have been this cheap -- I've really been out of the loop. I'd hate to think about putting together a top of the line server and I'll be needing to do that a lot, pretty soon, so I need to get back into the new hardware models and brands. :-)

Hi Tim

Sorry I didn't saw this earlier, otherwise I woudl have recommended http://www.mwave.com for components .. maybe somebody else here can use the advice :)

I'd have to second mwave.com , I've used them several times, great prices.

I'll put in another vote for www.mwave.com also. I've ordered lots from them in the past and never a problem.

I just built another system that Tim would RUN away from :)

ABIT NV7M - This has an integrated Geforce video, integrated audio, integrated 10/100 port, DDR ram support.
I built the entire box, including the Duron 1.1gig, 512 of DDR ram and an Enlight 300w case for $440 including shipping :D

This machine has gone into my sons room and is actually a great machine. It rocks, escpecially considering the price.

Thanks, you guys, I'll take a look there in the future (I'm sure my wife would love to know that -- so I'm officically "done" though, if anyone asks "And I will probably never need another system again" -- I think I said that about the Atari 400 XL to my mother back in '78 or so.) [Yeah, I'm sure my wife is that dense to believe me. *L*]

RotoHost, Naw, I've reconsidered, I suppose I was just used to the boards a few years ago that started adding stuff, and in a bad way. A high end system specifically built to work with these components better, might just be better. This is your son's system? Geez... and here I was all proud of myself for finally shelling out cash for this system. :-)

I have to suggest http://www.newegg.com for online components. They have Very competitive prices and very good service. At resellerratings.com they had one of the best ratings around.

I can also recommend the Epox 8KHA+ motherboard, I'm currently using that now with an XP 1700+ processor, and it's great. Very good bios to tweak your system and have it running nicely, but not SCSI which would be nice built in.

Edit: Just read the whole post and realized you already bought components.

I recommend newegg.com as well.

I just bought $1300 worth of stuff from there... it should be here in a few days. (new computer - can't wait to put it together!!) But I've never had any problems with their stuff. Just make sure you get something that's labeled "retail" our your stuck with a crappy warranty. :)

Just for the sake of finalizing the information about my order. I ordered from tigerdirect.com. I realize they don't have the absolute best deals, but within $10 of the cheapest prices on most of the boards and CPU's. I maybe would have saved $20 or so on the order, but, that's not enough to worry about (although I'd have had no problem with it) Anyway, they are fairly reputable and known to be decent people (as far as everyone tells me) and the order times are decent too. So, thanks for any potential future references though -- I'd never heard of these other places (most of them) and I'd probably not have ordered from them after finding them anyway -- since I knew nothing about them until you guy's commented about your good experiences. Cheers!

For CPUs, I usually order from googlegear.com ... I think they have one of the best deal around for Retail CPU (not OEM), especially for Intel. In pricewatch, their prices are usually within top ten of the cheapest, yet others are selling OEM. Shipping also reasonable.

cheers,
:beer:

I definitely got everything retail -- otherwise I'd just order off Ebay and save even more (from a reputable seller). I checked out pricewatch, and I was honestly confused. I was looking at the prices, and I see that it says it's 'so-much', yet when I click to view, it's the wrong thing almost every time. I.e., I choose an AMD Athlon Thunderbird 1.4 GHZ, and it matches all these XP 1400's (which I think are actually 1.1 or 1.2 GHZ). Often, it was the wrong thing, or the wrong price (and it was way off). I might have been a little confused by what I expected it to be though and I didn't have the patience to try and decipher it when I wanted to buy right then.

If you request that you need ATA33; most boards have it. If it is ATA66/100/133 then it will support ATA33 as they are backwards compatible.

Also, integrated does not mean problem's all the time, or even a lot of the time. I've had better luck with Intel boards and integrated stuff than anything.

Originally posted by RotoHost
I'll put in another vote for www.mwave.com also. I've ordered lots from them in the past and never a problem.

I just built another system that Tim would RUN away from :)

ABIT NV7M - This has an integrated Geforce video, integrated audio, integrated 10/100 port, DDR ram support.
I built the entire box, including the Duron 1.1gig, 512 of DDR ram and an Enlight 300w case for $440 including shipping :D

This machine has gone into my sons room and is actually a great machine. It rocks, escpecially considering the price.

You've got kid's? Wow. I've got a hamster.

Originally posted by Fiber
If you request that you need ATA33; most boards have it. If it is ATA66/100/133 then it will support ATA33 as they are backwards compatible.

Also, integrated does not mean problem's all the time, or even a lot of the time. I've had better luck with Intel boards and integrated stuff than anything.

Yeah, I figured it'd support lower, but I wasn't sure (I'm not much of a hardware type person on issues like that, until I come to where I need to know -- but, that's when you find out. :-)

As for integrated, I suppose it depends. I'm sure some of the high end systems that are built by good board manufactures, put in good parts. I'm sure some don't too. My luck with integrated, has always been terrible -- but I wasn't exactly having those experiences on the highest quality boards either. Though it did dissuade me from wanting to deal with it again. I realize my comments about that might have seem overly paranoid or cautious, but I've seen those things be an issue, to the worst degree -- and on the higher quality systems. However, I'm sure there are some good systems, I just wouldn't want to risk it. It's strange to me. It's like having engine parts welded on an engine -- parts that never came stuck on it before. However, a good comparison to that, is that you can switch the lines or wires to just use your own part like you planned or wanted to do anyway -- and it would be rare, I'd hope, that an onboard component would break badly enough to take down the circuit in such a way that it makes the board broken (and I've seen that happen!)

So, I'm sure it's not all bad, but also, there _is_ still the issue a lot of the time, of onboard components taking up CPU and memory (even though cards do, they don't to that extent (especially onboard video and some audio, etc.)), when a card that's hardware will have it's own processing -- and that can be good. However, again, if you can bypass onboard and have all your CPU and RAM free still, that's cool.

Anyway, it looks that everyone's (that's to say, all the company's) doing this, so I'm not going to really have much of a choice but to deal with it in the future when I need a newer board anyway. I am bothered by company's pairing up with other one's that might not be something I'd want on my board. Mainly, I'll surely be able to pick and choose better components and want to use them over the intergrated stuff anyway and I think the biggest issue, is that I have no need or desire for it... at least not right now.

I have to agree with a few people here. I always start my retail component shopping with mwave and newegg. Whichever one has my components on sale or for the lowest gets my business. They both are pretty similar and seem to even be using the same shopping cart software.