VisaMC.net (http://www.visamc.net) (short for Visa MasterCard)
VandMC.com (http://www.vandmc.com) (short for Visa and MasterCard)

Both domain names are short and specific with lot's of potential. I would consider a trade for a good private-label resellers package for hosting that would match my asking price which is $500.00.

Izaak,

or any purchase does, if they ever intend to try to use those.

Could you explain a little better as to what gave you the idea that I would need a staff of attorneys?

If you are in fact right in this situation I will give the posted domain names away. All you need to do is have Visa or MasterCard confirm that what I am doing is basically illegal in the terms of business. Now if you do provide the necessary information and I am wrong in this situation WOW you have really cut some feet off in the .com .net .org etc industry.

Now to be fair I could be wrong I am not disputing that, all I want Incognito to do is prove it. I swear that if you back-up your post with actual facts I will give up the domain names that I posted for sale and/ or trade.

Izaak:)

It's not necessarily against their terms of business, but rather "Cyber-Squatting (sp)" laws.

Do a search on google for 'trademark misuse'.

I have a few non-generic domain names as well.


Lats...

So by selling or trading such domain names as I have listed above I am wrong in doing so and could end up in court by such companies as Visa and MasterCard because I am infringing on their rights?

As I understand it, just owning the domain names is not considered a crime, it's only if the site went live.

Should the site become known to the trademark owners, they would most likely contact you.


Lats...

So what your saying is that VisaMC.com (http://www.visamc.com), MCVisa.com (http://www.mcvisa.com), and man tons of others like these sites are selling merchant account services however I do not think that they trademark the names, but they are selling products and services which relates to the monsters that we are discussing. Oh and by the way these web sites that I mentioned in this post are not mine I was just using them as an examples.

If someone could present some hard evidence which will show me that selling domain names like such mentioned in my first post is wrong and if I did sell the names that I could be facing a serious lawsuite I will give my domain names away right now, because I really have no more use for them.:o

I don't think that selling these names is a problem at all.

The problem comes if Visa or Mastercard should decide that they want them, or that they don't want you to have them, or they believe you have registered them in bad faith.

See the detailed policy at UDRP (http://www.icann.org/udrp/udrp.htm) and draw your own conclusions.

If you want legal advice, call a good Domain Lawyer. On these forums you will get opinion sprinkled liberally with anecdotal evidence and some real experiences - not law.

-t

The thing that bothered me was the reply in which basically stated that my domain names were a risk to buy which leads to a bad referral... Call it what you will, but that is what my thoughts are on the matter. I realize people are going to take cheap shots once in a while in the forums, but doing it in such an unprofessional (meaning no facts or hard evidence) way as Incognito did is wrong.

Izaak,

i'll give you $20 apiece, not a cent more, thats what they're worth. And yes, there is a echo in here, but go do a google search for "cyber squatting" it's totally illegal, and is defined by the registering of domain names with no intent to use them, only intent to sell them to third parties. I've seen several such cases go to court, neither side won IMHO because they both wasted their time and money, but it took a good bite out of their asses in the process.

Cybersquatting is lame and wrong, it's the same thing as scalping tickets to a concert (which in most places is illegal). You should be ashamed of yourself.

If anyone were to use these names in the manner described Visa and Mastercard would charge trademark infringement. I wasn't necessarily passing judgement on their cases, but was certainly passing judgement on the cost to defend. I have been around such infringement cases as these at least the last 25 years. Many have dragged on for years. But they were between very large companies with deep pockets. 90% of those I have seen between large companies and individuals or small businessmen have ended with the small businessman unable to continue the fight. As an example, I saw one with relatively little merit in my opinion in South Florida when Blockbuster went after Buster Block's Pizza as it opened. This is nothing as close to VisaMC as it was different, common words, and in an unrelated business. However, just the initial injunctions and legal expenses quickly cost Buster Block all the money they had and put them out of business. The case was never heard on its merits.

Originally posted by porcupine
[clip]Cybersquatting is lame and wrong, it's the same thing as scalping tickets to a concert (which in most places is illegal). You should be ashamed of yourself.
Interesting that you scold him for cybersquatting and then offer to buy these domains for $20 each...

-t

How am I "cyber squatting"? I do not own Visa.net or MasterCard.net all I did was combine the names because I wanted to start a merchant account directory. I would not have trademarked the names and in any case I am almost sure that either company would not have had a problem. If I were to make the domain names big I would in fact structure a contract between the two companies and pay the necessary royalties to use such reputations.


Izaak,

thewitt:

I was being sarcastic by offering him $20 (the domains actual worth for just over a year of registry left) when he was asking for $500 (each? not sure). I wanted to see what kinda reaction i'd get when he was offered with the actual value of the domain names heh.

Porcupine....you are lucky he didn't call your bluff...you could have been the proud owner....although probably would have been worth the $20 just to see.

Incognito: hah, what makes you think i'd actually give him $20?

Incognito, the offer is for anyone... Tell me something though what good is a domain name that cannot be used. Hey if I am wrong in this situation I will give away both VisaMC.net and VandMC.com. The only thing anyone would have to pay for is the transfer fees. But, if what I am doing is not wrong and I find out later on I promise I will get those names back. :D

Look, I didn't want to turn this into a some kind of a posting war I just thought the way Incognito and now Porcupine handled themselves was not ethical and the morals behind it showed what kind of a business people they really are.

Porcupine, contact either Visa or MasterCard and if either of them say that I am infringing on such a bogus term as you put it "Cybersquatting" then you have all rights to the domain names with the transfer fees involved. Good Luck... :o



Izaak,

Why do we have rights to the domain names? We're not representing visa or master card. Visa and master card would probably have no claim over vandmc.com, but using "visamc.net" is totally infringing on their trademark. If i make the domain "microsoftandibm.com" do you think i'm infringing on microsoft's and ibm's rights? I sure as hell would be.

Here's an article at random regarding the cyber-squatting act:

http://www.houstoninternetlaw.com/cyber_squatting.html

i haven't read it, and really have no clue what it says, but i do know the just of the cyber-squatting act. BTW, if you transferred a domain to me, believe me, unless i wanted you to, you'd never be getting it back, thats not even a valid promise/threat. I don't know where you get off saying how we handled this was not ethical, you registering the domain name infringing on visa's trademark was unethical, and us stating the fact doesen't make us bad people in any way shape or form.

Anyhow, why don't you go read up on that article, and be honest with yourself, while one of your domain names is pretty much useless, the other one is registered infringing on visa's rights, and also qualifies as cyber squatting.

Sorry, but by providing a merchant account directory I would in fact be representing Visa and MasterCard "Right"...!!

Look, put your bogus terms into actions and let's see what you've got. I am giving you a shot to finally end this nonsense so, contact either company and make sure that you give them my full name Izaak J. Nason, because I just hate it when people get my name wrong.

Porcupine, someday I am sure you will eat wheaties with the big boys, but it's not happening today. :D

To Give your full name, would need that information.

And, by the way, when you use Visa or Mastercard merchant accounts, you do sign agreements restricting the way you can use their name and Logo and reaffirming their rights to control that use.

ianson: I'm suggesting you read that article i pasted, because by the sound of your ignorant rebuttal, you haven't. You can contact VISA, but the fact of the matter is, they probably get a lot of little infringements, and frankly dont give a s***. Just because they don't care about you (because you have absolutly no effect on them) doesen't mean it's not illegal/wrong.

BTW, love the wheaties comment, cute, but i'm in canada, do we even have wheaties here? I've never noticed them on the shelf, i'm not much of a breakfast guy either way though.

Then on what cereal boxes do you put star athletes pictures? Oh....forgot that's not such an issue in Canada....j/k

Hahaha, ouch, incognito, that was a cheap shot. Personally i like the reces cereal best, but it's more of a candy then a cereal and it's like $5.00/shot, i can't afford to eat that daily, nor can my teeth :p

Look if you guys are such experts on the subject why don't you do something about it tell on me like a little school boy would. Prove your point with actions not boring articles that you have to pass the bar exam to really understand the whole meaning.

Prove your point with actions not boring articles that you have to pass the bar exam to really understand the whole meaning.

1. I'm prooving my point by showing you the articles that declare what you're doing is illegal, that was my point.
2. Are you some kind of dork?!?! "you have to pass the bar exam", how hard is this to understand?! (from the article):

The Act establishes that a registrant of a domain name may be liable to the owner of a trademark or others that may be affected by the “bad faith” of the domain name registrant.

The Act defines bad faith to include:

“the person’s offer to transfer, sell or otherwise assign the domain name to the owner of the mark for financial gain without having used or (having) the intent to use the domain name in a bona fide offering of any goods or services, or the person’s prior conduct indicating a pattern of such conduct.”


Now really, how hard is that to understand?! It states exactly what both of us have been telling you. Maybe you need to grow up and stop throwing out pety insults and actually reading whats being told to you, assuming of course it's not too difficult.

Can't do anything...you never told us what the J stands for....and you require we use your full name and get it right.


I quote:

<that you give them my full name Izaak J. Nason, because I just hate it when people get my name wrong>

Also, could you settle a bet we have....are you under or over 14? We have a lot riding on this....so please assist us.

Here's something from the visa site :

http://www.usa.visa.com/personal/legal/?it=ft_/index.html


Trademarks
The trademarks, logos, and service marks (collectively the "Trademarks") displayed on the Visa site are registered and unregistered Trademarks of Visa and others. VISA®, the Three Bands Design Mark®, CLASSIC®, the Comet Design Mark®, the Dove Design Mark®, ELECTRON®, ENTREE®, the Impulse Design Mark®, INTERLINK®, the Network Design Mark®, PLUS®, the PLUS Design Mark®, and It's Everywhere You Want To Be® are registered Trademarks of Visa in the United States and other countries (trademark denotations on the Visa site indicate federal registrations in the United States). Nothing contained on the Visa site should be construed as granting by implication, estoppel, or otherwise, any license or right to use any Trademark displayed on the Visa site without the written permission of Visa or such third party that may own the Trademark. Misuse of any Trademarks, or any other content, displayed on the Visa site is prohibited. Visa aggressively enforces its intellectual property rights, including via civil and criminal proceedings.


Please read it carefully.


Lats...

Bah, just take the VisaMC and turn it into VisAMC! It would be highly popular to builda Visual AMC site! Who wouldn't want to see those awesome 70's automobiles?

I wonder if that would be wrong as well, as AMC no longer exists. Does Chrysler own the trademark? I'd guess so.

Hmm, even that wont work.

Do you realize how boring your posts are? I want someone to contact me with real authority of course and to clearly point out on this matter where I am doing something illegal. You do that and "wow" you are a dedicated person and I will put you up there with all of the other shady politicians whom fliped such a bill directed towards this matter. I am sure glad you aren't a U.S. citizen it's one less problem to deal with.

Post intended for porcupine

Good point DizixCom,

But this guy is still evading the original point, the fact that he's cybersquatting a domain in hopes of making insane profits (yes, $500 for a domain he registered for what? $20 is insane IMHO). Cybersquatting is cybersquatting :D regardless of who you're trying to screw.

Yes yes, point taken. Clearly the intent is to profit from trademarks owned (in this case) by two sepearate entities. Why I believe that is the very definition of squatting.

The law is boring, and you are a clearly a mere child. And why is it "shady politicians" flipped this bill? A bill to protect trademarks and registered trade names is shady? Give me a break, theres nothing whatsoever shady about this act, it's to protect everyones general interests. Stop posting lame petty name calling posts, and try to realise you're not gonna get $500 for a camped domain.

porcupine,

This is so crazy I have never had this problem anywhere else including the GreenSheet which is a place strictly for credit card processors, MSP's, ISO's, and ISA's. Don't you think they would have said something about this if your bogus terms really stood up. Didn't you infringe on my rights, we call it deformation of character.

Great you accomplished your task no one is going to buy these domain names does that make you feel good, do you feel strong, are you claping your little hands jumping up and down like a little school girl.

Regardless if a person does do wrong I do not think that it is appropriate to slice a persons character. What you should have done is contact me outside the forums rather then make me sound like a crook.

Great you accomplished your task no one is going to buy these domain names does that make you feel good, do you feel strong, are you claping your little hands jumping up and down like a little school girl.

You just can't quit with the kiddie insults can you?


Don't you think they would have said something about this if your bogus terms really stood up.

"The Act is found at 15 U.S.C Section 1125" Go look, its the law, not some "bogus terms".

Regardless if a person does do wrong I do not think that it is appropriate to slice a persons character. What you should have done is contact me outside the forums rather then make me sound like a crook.

Why would i contact you outside the form? Why shouldn't people post replies in your thread relating to what you're offering? I don't need to slice your character, your replies did 10x what i could have ever done with effort. What you're doing is illegal, and your response is nothing short of nasty, so technically that does make you a crook does it not?