Many of you will have read about the problems Splash Host was having, almost every day for 4 weeks we had a server that would crash. Eventually by setting up resource limiting I was able to stop the servers crashing completely, i could then see that it was a cgi script that was causing the problems. I examined the script to find out that it was a fork bomb designed to crash the server. I then searched through the logs to find the ip number of the person who had ran the script. This happened many times and i was able to see that it was from the same or a very similar ip number each time.These ip numbers traced to BC, Canada. In the log files i could also see that this person had been referred to sites on the server from here so i asked Chicken to check for users using that ip number. Chicken found that Kiwi had posted using these ip numbers on the same days someone had ran a fork bomb on my server from that ip.

I will let you make up your own mind about Marc and his company, but it is pretty obvious this has been done to ruin my business so customers will go with them instead of me.

Are you serious? Did Marc set up an account with you under a different name or something?

No what i think alan is saying is that Marc caused the hacking problems on Alans machine

Thats what i think he saying

Joe

Im serious, he used demo accounts.

Sad to see... very sad.

Damn - if this is true... that's really dirty.

SUe him for the suffer damages you had in the past

I have all the logs and evidence to confirm it.

man, thats pretty sad that someone would stoop to that level




Jim

McHost = Blacklisted

:angry:

Stay away from them everybody

This is just tooooo lowwwwww

:angry:

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
I have all the logs and evidence to confirm it.

My suggestion take a legal action against MCHost becuase you have all evidence so you will win real easy.

Just my 2 cents

Wow. Ever since the discovery audit I wondered, but never expected it would be as big as this. How terribly sad, business must really be bad for MChost for them to go so low.

Real sad..I'm surprised he hasn't replied yet - though..it would be a bit hard to come up with an excuse for that one :(

Marc, if this is the truth. I have to admit it is pretty dirty. He has enough to show that Kiwi did do it. Yes, I noticed when the server crashed it said "I'm leaving Spalsh Host and Going to MCHost" customers would post. He literally knew that if he crashed the Splash Host servers people would run to MCHost for service. No wonder MCHost is so big.

This is a sad, sad, day for Hosting! :angry: :angry: :angry:

Amazing

Some people just can't resist letting things slip out:

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=36571&highlight=cpanel

Originally posted by Kiwi
A static demo (see http://demo:account@mchost.com/cpanel/ ) with everything disabled is pretty much the safest way. I see dozens of hosting companies out there with a fully-functional CPanel demo, from webmail over FTP to even shell access. Even without shell access, any spammer/cracker could and will upload files in less than a minute and bring the machine down.

Originally posted by Kiwi


spam scripts, dos scripts, etc. it is already hard to track what your clients upload. giving everyone access to your machine is a paradise and invitation for abusers.

If this is true... :bawling: :angry: :(

This topic will be my first stop when I come to WHT. I really, really want to see what Kiwi is going to say. And seeing how the online users list shows Kiwi...

If Alan has posted this and it is false....

*waits* on Kiwi to reply with some lame excuse.

Originally posted by stormtrooper
If Alan has posted this and it is false....


Then :bawling: :angry: :( for him and his business.


Only possible positive outcome: This helps solve MCHost vs. SplashHost arguement... :crap:

I can't imagine that Alan would take the risk to post this if he's not 100% sure that he is right....

Hmmmm that really, really sucks.
If it's true, I will cancel my MCHost account immediately :angry: :angry: :angry:

truly a sad day

I am waiting to see about What KIWI says as well, if this is true its Really Sad..

I like his company so much I refer ppl to him!

What can Kiwi say?. Besides yes it is true and he did do it. If he comes up with some lame excuse then he will be in deeper ****.

I am talking with Alan from Splashhost on ICQ right now and we're discussing what is/has been going on.

Hrmm Very Interesting. BTW Splashost, is that only on 1 server or do you have multiple servers?

Chicken, what can you tell us about this ?
I assume you can confirm that Alan asked you about those IP's and that you found out that they were used by Kiwi ?

This truly is a sad day, take him to court Alan anyone who stoops that low deserves all they get:angry:

What happened to this (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34843&perpage=15&pagenumber=8#post252001)?

Originally posted by Kiwi
I am talking with Alan from Splashhost on ICQ right now and we're discussing what is/has been going on.


So you're not denying it? By stating "we're discussing what is/has been going on" looks like an admission of guilt to me.

Alan, I feel really sorry for you man, i truely admire your company SplashHost and *used* to admire MCHost as well, but after this post, I simply cannot think of anything which could be more despicable :(
Honestly shame on MCHost....

Did you attempt to contact and discuss this with Kiwi before posting here?

I understand you are not communicating on ICQ...or at least hope you are. But, whether guilty or not, I just feel Kiwi deserved to be confronted directly first and allowed to offer an explanation if he has one, before the post here, as this is a very serious charge

If Kiwi did this directly, then my whole impression of him has been very wrong. If one of his customers did it, it will be quite believable although still very disgraceful.

That brings up another general issue as well. From what I have observed, several hosts who are regulars have been recently targeted. Does this forum and the attending publicity attract some of the wrong element to take steps against hosts with good reputations?

How do we successfully promote our businesses without making them targets? For instance, this is one reason, I do not post or make available names of my customers anywhere...I don't want someone mad at me or at a customer to attack all. So, I avoid any kind of list that would make their job easier. Another reason, I use a long list of DNS's.

And, last a word to any of the hackers who think it proves something, shows off their skills. Yes, you are correct, it does prove something. It proves the type of person you are and shows off your lack of character. It is no more attractive than taking a gun and vandalizing or robbing a local store, because the damage is the same.

Originally posted by Synergy
Hrmm Very Interesting. BTW Splashost, is that only on 1 server or do you have multiple servers?
In case you missed it, Alan/Splashhost was deliberately targeted. Multiple servers were attacked.

Originally posted by T_E_O
Chicken, what can you tell us about this ?
I assume you can confirm that Alan asked you about those IP's and that you found out that they were used by Kiwi ?
Well, this is actually a long story, but I'll try to keep it short, and purposely skip over most of the details. Alan did contact me with some server logs which had IPs (as he thought that they belonged to a WHT member). He wanted to know if this was correct and who it was.

I checked the IPs and confirmed that a member did match, but told him that I wouldn't release who without more info and more discussion. Fast forward...

After more messages of logs and a more in-depth look through the logs and chats with various people who know server admin better than I do, people who understand attacks of this nature, people who understand cpanel, people with access to the logs, etc., and people who confirmed that these IPs were indeed responsible for the problems, I emailed Alan the user name that matched the IP and suggested he contact a lawyer regarding the matter.

I usually *hate* taking sides, but here I have gotta agree with Alan, why? Because...

1. SplashHost is a real good competitor to MCHost and definately very popular.

2. MCHost well, they I bet couldn't stand the competiton.

But seriously stooping this low.......... :eek:

Lets see how those ICQ conversations turn out. Keep us posted ;)

My question to you chicken is this

Depending on the carrier where this ip is coming from

Is there a chance that the IP is shared.

I know that dialup and dsl, and cable to change ips.

Could it have been a ip that changes

Joe

Originally posted by Incognito
That brings up another general issue as well. From what I have observed, several hosts who are regulars have been recently targeted. Does this forum and the attending publicity attract some of the wrong element to take steps against hosts with good reputations?


Its the nature of business.. you can't expect everyone to be happy, and you can be sure that someone will bad mouth your service if they were treated bad.

Look at Walmart - I can't stand those union busting asses - and its my right to say it.

If you put a product on the market, its going to be examined, and will be discussed.

If I'm not mistaken, Enron used to have a good reputation also. Things change, business fall and rise, capitalism at its best.

If everyone said good things about a company and nothing bad, one company would dominate the market.

Incognito, im currently engaged in direct discusion with Marc at this moment.

My tech told me a fork bomb can take a server down within minutes..... Is that what happened?

One of the problems of the web is jurisdiction. In cases such as this, one of the first suggestions is to get a lawyer. However, in practical terms taking legal action against someone thousand's of miles away in another jurisdiction is difficult. Often the most effective approach is providing proof to upstream providers and, if appropriate, ICANN, and trying to take steps that way. Also, if evidence is strong enough, sometimes contacting local authorities in the area of the offender/criminal with the evidence can sometimes lead to action. Often times criminal action is, in fact, easier to get than any civil action or judgement.

My tech told me a fork bomb can take a server down within minutes..... Is that what happened?

Yes, but in milliseconds rather than minutes.

Originally posted by SplashHost.com

Yes, but in milliseconds rather than minutes.

If the server has proper user limitations, it might stop it, or delay it a few minutes....

/etc/security/limits.conf can be your best friend in this case....

I'm still discussing this with Alan. He's informing me right now what happened and we're discussing the network or server IPs in his log files. If they came from our network, i have told Alan that i will come up for the damages, no matter if it is $500 or $5000.

Originally posted by SplashHost.com

Yes, but in milliseconds rather than minutes.


Hey Alan, whats the status of your conversation? Anything interesting?

Originally posted by JBIZ718
My question to you chicken is this
Depending on the carrier where this ip is coming from
Is there a chance that the IP is shared.
I know that dialup and dsl, and cable to change ips.
Could it have been a ip that changes
Joe
I'd prefer to let them handle this between them, but as for your question, even if an IP is shared, is DSL, and does change, it can be constant throughout certain periods.

I'm going to wait until I find out that this is really MCHost before I really take sides.

Originally posted by ^Kyo



Hey Alan, whats the status of your conversation? Anything interesting?


Originally posted by Kiwi
I'm still discussing this with Alan. He's informing me right now what happened and we're discussing the network or server IPs in his log files. If they came from our network, i have told Alan that i will come up for the damages, no matter if it is $500 or $5000.


I think that qualifies :D

Sometimes the forum seems to turn into its own soap opera-guess the name would be..."As the Web Turns"

Originally posted by Incognito
Sometimes the forum seems to turn into its own soap opera-guess the name would be..."As the Web Turns"

I guess incognito that you dont understand the importance of client businesses being at stake here if you can seem to trivialise such an important post as "a soap opera" :eek:

just don't want to have to deal with the ugly, awful truth. Would prefer to wake and find it was all just a nightmare.

Well

I can only say that I am completely shocked...

.. wordless

"As the Web Turns"

Good one

Its a shame though, don't see how this can be resolved without 1 part being angry ? ?

:)

Thought you guys might find this interesting. I posted on the MCHOST forums last night, so I was subscribed to that thread. Someone who saw this thread here posted a link to this thread on MCHOST forums, on the same thread I had posted on.

So, since I am online 24/7 [sleep is overrated], I immediately checked the thread when I got the 'new post' email. Saw the link, and came here. After a little while, I returned to the thread that links here to check the replies from the people over there...and the post had been deleted! I guess they were trying to keep 'potential customers' from knowing about this. :eek:

Ahem...and that other site was http://www.splashhost.com, correct? Going there now....
:)

Just to let you know that im discussing a possible out of court settlement with kiwi at the moment.

As usual $$$$$$


Joe

Originally posted by freakboy
Thought you guys might find this interesting. I posted on the MCHOST forums last night, so I was subscribed to that thread. Someone who saw this thread here posted a link to this thread on MCHOST forums, on the same thread I had posted on.

So, since I am online 24/7 [sleep is overrated], I immediately checked the thread when I got the 'new post' email. Saw the link, and came here. After a little while, I returned to the thread that links here to check the replies from the people over there...and the post had been deleted! I guess they were trying to keep 'potential customers' from knowing about this. :eek:

Ahem...and that other site was http://www.splashhost.com, correct? Going there now....
:)

Up until now there has been no doubt in my mind that Marc is honest and trustworthy, which may in fact still be the case, so take this post for whatever you like, but without some sort of proof the thread was there at all, don't necessarily rely on this post as an information source.

(No offense intended to freakboy)

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
Just to let you know that im discussing a possible out of court settlement with kiwi at the moment.

I wouldn't make any post regarding this matter until you have ended your talks with them and until you know the full truth.

RE: server logs..... can't they be faked?
can't ip's be spoofed?
perhaps someone is trying to make both hosts look bad?
guess I'm just hoping this isnt true...
d

Originally posted by Relyc

Up until now there has been no doubt in my mind that Marc is honest and trustworthy, which may in fact still be the case, so take this post for whatever you like, but without some sort of proof the thread was there at all, don't necessarily rely on this post as an information source.

(No offense intended to freakboy)

I believe him. I saw another topic (same as the one freakboy is talking about?) about this @ MCHost forums get deleted. But wouldn't you do it too? Or would you let people openly discuss stuff like this on your company's public forums?

discussing a possible out of court settlement with kiwi

does this mean an admission of guilt on Marc's part?

Please "clarify" as we would assume that the possible ramifications of this situation could be disasterous ..... to say the least .....

Any of us who provide forums for our customers would remove such a post if it was made. Probably the reason more hosts do not provide forums is the way they turn into attacks on the host themselves sometimes. And, that clearly is not the purpose.

Up until now there has been no doubt in my mind that Marc is honest and trustworthy,

There have been many wolves in sheeps clothing on these boards. I think we can all name a few host we thought were one thing, and the next thing you know.........



If this were true, and it is IF, I certainly would not settle. All the hell someone put you through and it was a fellow competitor. I would run that person out of business!! What is to keep them from doing it to someone else????

I hope this is all just a big misunderstanding. I also hope money doesn't quite the truth if this is indeed what happeded.

I hate to say it but I agree with UmBillyCord

:eek:

I would demand a public apology and admission of wrong also if any settlement were reached.

Please only take my post at face value as well :)

Well I've read most of the comments, and found it very interesting. Also I think most people have yet to think about the bigger picture.

I would have to say the following:

If it's true then, from the view point of personal ethics, I feel that this is wrong. Also from the view point of business ethics, I feel that this was was a badly planned attack to get rid of the other company, but otherwise a nifty way of taking them out without expending alot of money.

Interestingly enough, I find that this sort of attack has not been used more often, what better way to get rid of the other parties than keep there servers crashing. Simple an effective.

Now the question comes to this, are you ethical or are you not. All is fair in business, only your morals stand in your way.

The outcome of this problem will be 2 fold.

1) we will learn where we sit on ethical lines.
2) we will learn to secure our systems better.

Side note:

I checked with my little legal group. The worst thing that could happen to MC host is nothing in Canada. Canada has some interesting laws when it comes to this. They permit scanning systems, and running of scripts (even the virus types). If MC host comes into the USA for some reason then he could be charged under some of the new 9/11 laws ( whichones I'm not sure). Also if the claim is over US $ 5,000 then it might (<----key word) be considered a federal crime that the FBI can be called in on.

I would advise people not to pass nor post judgement on MC host or Splash host untill it's all brought out in the open, if ever brought out. Because as it stands, these 2 fine companies are having there named dragged in the mud.

I would also advise as " Incognito " said, have multiple locations and don't tell a soul. you should read his other post within the forum also, he is one of the few that I give alot of respect to and admire his ethical standing within this community.

-Sqposter / Michael

It's ok that you don't believe me, I can see why you wouldn't. But you can check...I posted there last night, several times, bantering with a poster. But...the reason I knew about this thread was the link that was deleted.

And, yes I can see why someone would want to delete it...but if they were an upfront company, they would address the situation with some sort of statement...not try to sweep it under the rug.

Just so you know...I was about 10 minutes from signing up with their service. They seem to have a great community, and somone from MCHOST is ALWAYS online...exactly what I need, since I currently host 60 clients. I checked out splashhost.com...and don't know if I'll go with them either. They seem to be just starting out, and while there is nothing wrong with that, I need something more established for my business. Looks like they are off to a promising start though.

I'm new here, and I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot of stupid comments and questions in the near future from me. Thanks for not killing me! :D

If this were true, and it is IF, I certainly would not settle. All the hell someone put you through and it was a fellow competitor. I would run that person out of business!! What is to keep them from doing it to someone else????
There is a chance that you wouldn't be able to prove it in court and you may not get any compensation at all. Also, MCHost's reputation is going to be severely damaged if it is proved that Marc executed the attacks and he will have to work very hard to get back on his feet. I, personally would try to work out an out-of-court settlement.

Originally posted by freakboy
I checked out splashhost.com...and don't know if I'll go with them either. They seem to be just starting out, and while there is nothing wrong with that, I need something more established for my business. Looks like they are off to a promising start though.


I wouldn't say that SplashHost is just starting out. I believe it is newer than MCHost, but definately not just starting out.

Sorry, but I have to repeat my post from the other thread:

Wait until the dust settles.
IPs can be faked, and I am wondering if they would really be so silly to do this from their own IPs!
I am taking no side.

n/m. Should have PMed freakboy about it instead of posting

Web Hosting Radio is LIVE right now taking opinions and discussing the situation. Tune in if you would like.
http://www.live365.com/stations/149064
Come listen.

I'm just wondering why Alan posted in WHT _before_ trying to settle with MCHost out-of-court.... if it were me making that post, I would really want to make sure I had all my ducks in a row before I got started trying to execute a public campaign. There has been a lot of talk about ethics...

Originally posted by Rewdog
Web Hosting Radio is LIVE right now taking opinions and discussing the situation. Tune in if you would like.
http://www.live365.com/stations/149064
Come listen.

Unprofessional radio at its best folks. Tune in now and listen to the enthusiasm in this broadcast. Hear a dramatic reading of Splashhost's first post! And other posts! I'm on the edge of my seat.

I like it because it reminds me of me.

Turn up your volume rewdog....!

Originally posted by appletreats


Unprofessional radio at its best folks. Tune in now and listen to the enthusiasm in this broadcast. Hear a dramatic reading of Splashhost's first post! And other posts! I'm on the edge of my seat.

I like it because it reminds me of me.

Im listening to it now...its like Beavis and Butthead meets Ronald Reagan...What a load of old bollox....Is he just reading out peoples posts or what!....

Stay tuned ...you may hear this one.

Simon

It sounds like he's drunk again :D

Thank you Rewdog for that interesting application of technology. I think I have glimpsed the future.

Hmm, is it really good to make poor comments about other people - I mean, your company isn't exactly in the best situation..

I... Umm.... Umm...... Ummmm......... Errr......... :rolleyes: :D

Originally posted by mkaufman
Turn up your volume rewdog....!

Yes it's very bad! Terrible! Now if I click a link I become temporarily deaf from the clicking sound. Rewdog is too quiet. Get loud! Yell! Screeeeaaam!

*I'm just waiting.

But, Alan; I think I'd go along with Billy.

Rewdog,

I think you may have a future in broadcasting.

Lookout Rush! :D

(BTW... I'm still umm... listening!)

Hey, the volume is fine now :)

I just went deaf listening b/c I of an unexpected IM rattled my room....

Still a little too soft rew... b/c now all I can hear is ringing

yeah volume is better :)

Originally posted by mkaufman
Hmm, is it really good to make poor comments about other people - I mean, your company isn't exactly in the best situation..

To whom was this directed? At a fast growing thread maybe you should clarifiy this...

Rewdog, you need to give out your IM address more often so you get more input from your "listeners".

...
oops

Mchost was in business before i was.

Rewdog how can I contact you to have a comment on your thrilling show?

Is this being recorded by anyone? My sound isnt working so cant listen to it.

Well, seeing as this thread is getting so far off course lets try and bring it back down to earth shall we.

Considering this is one of the subjects I feel very strongly about I will post my comments on the situation and leave it be.

Now, as in any court you are innocent until proven guilty. So we will only assume that what splashost has said is true.

Any act such as that would fall under the anti terrorism acts passed after 9/11 making what mchost supposedly did extremely illegal and basically breaking federal law, it doesn't matter if he's in Canada or not, if splashost wants to press it hard enough then assuming they have the logs and act quickly enough to procure the router logs of mchost's upstream then they have a solid case.

That being said, I think splashost has approached this matter in an extremely unprofessional and naive way. While I can understand them working with WHT to find out who the IP belongs to, after that my first call would have been to my lawyer, and then his first call would be to the FBI and a Judge to begin securing court orders for the appropriate information to solidify the case.

Considering the fact that splash host has now basically severely harmed any possibility of starting a legal lawsuit both to the fact of the time that has passed and now the numbers of people who know about it (which makes erasing ones tracks a bit easier). That splashost is now more or less obligated to the court of public opinion to prove or disprove the case, the worst thing that splashost could do at the moment is their little "out of court settlement" game to hide any truth to this matter. If what splashost has said is true, I’d be appalled if they let money wash away the truth of what if anything happened.

It may be that nothing at all happened, however, since splashost chose to take this to the public and make accusations, i believe they should be held accountable for those accusations and be forced to prove or disprove what they claim, and if they do then I believe it would be appropriate for McHost to at a bare minimum post a public apology, however, if they would be unable to prove it then splashost would have some apologizing of their own to do.

BTW

RewDog's contact info is


ICQ Number: 23081216
AOL Instant Messenger Handle: Socrdude04


The Information is readily avaiable through his profile as well....

Originally posted by appletreats
Rewdog how can I contact you to have a comment on your thrilling show?

The crazy thing is...by adding this post you have been selected for comment already...All he is doing is reading the posts...even my chimp bubbles can do that.

Simon
Big Michael Jackson fan!

Originally posted by SimonMc


The crazy thing is...by adding this post you have been selected for comment already...All he is doing is reading the posts...even my chimp bubbles can do that.

Simon
Big Michael Jackson fan!


Hooray! :D :D :D :D :D

Somewhat more on topic, the sharks want to know what's going on. Any hot news updates?

This is all soooooo sad :puke:

Just proves maturity is not a matter of age.

The best thing I can say about Daniel as a professional is that I never would have guessed his age had I not known. This board is often used as the avenue of first resort....and it more often should be the avenue of last resort.

Generally, as in this thread, both parties images get tarnished. And, in the end, many will forget the facts, and simply rely on what they last heard, which may or may not be the truth. The power of the word is immense, and has gained strength mightily with the internet. It behooves us all then to be even more careful in what we say, and more careful and discreet in our expressions of both opinion and fact. And, remember, because I say it is fact, doesn't make it so...and because I start with factual information, does not necessarily make my conclusions accurate.

I, for one, do not know the truth here yet-may never know. Therefore, I am going to work hard to not allow what I have heard to unduly influence my opinion of those involved.

Alan: what was said between you and Marc on ICQ before? I've been listening to your radio show half hour now and have heard no mention.

You keep saying "I'm not sure if MCHost did it, I'm just going on the evidence". Did Marc deny it, or not deny it?

I thought it was rewdog's radio show, not Alan's...

Originally posted by Pendulum
Did Marc deny it, or not deny it?

Yes, i do deny it. But i cannot deny if it was done through my IP or a server IP because until now, i have not been able to see the log files from Alan, but we are still talking.

I am truly disappointed. :(
Can't wait to see what action is taken by both parties.

Well, I just signed on and read the whole thread and all I have to say is: :eek2:.
All I have to say is I won't make any judgements until I find out more.

BTW, good job with WHR, RewDog. I'm listening right now. You said that you better be talking about web hosting with so many people listening. How many people are listening?

I think it's really ridiculous that everyone here is going on some bad blame scheme. I personally feel it was irresponsible for Alan to post this thread until he had communicated with Marc.

Secondly WHT has become some sort of a slander pit these days which is really sick IMO.

I think everyone forgot when Alan's servers first started going down and it was Kiwi who called up pwebtech to try and get the servers running again.

I'd say on both parties -- they are innocent until proven guilty.

Originally posted by JustinK
I thought it was rewdog's radio show, not Alan's...

Sorry, my mistake :)

Keep this thread on topic please.

After all the dust has settled you will have to decide (maybe with little information) how you feel about what has taken place. Although I admit openly to not knowing at this time, I do know that many times others take action without your knowledge or approval to "try to help you" or to harm your competition. Also, one must weigh the logic and motive and prior knowledge. This will include asking oneself:

How the participants have conducted themselves in this situation?

How the participants have previously conducted themselves...and their reputations?

Is it logical....would McHost consider Splash to be such a threat as to do this? Why...considering the huge difference in the size of the two companies?

I am by no means saying that Splash doesn't have evidence it came from McHost IP's or that Splash doesn't believe it was Kiwi....I am not questioning anyones believes or integrity. However, that does not mean Kiwi was behind it, knew about it, or did it.

Good luck to both sides in sorting this out.

I'll be damn...


Just wanted to add to this before it's closed.

Someone mentioned that the IP address might be shared or something. I know with my DSL account, everyone is seen as the same IP address which is then firewalled and filtered out to everyone under it.

Stranger things have happened....

I think everyone forgot when Alan's servers first started going down and it was Kiwi who called up pwebtech to try and get the servers running again.

Some would say it is a great way for some one to "clean up".

I'd say on both parties -- they are innocent until proven guilty.

For both of them as it now seems.

Originally posted by techx

I think everyone forgot when Alan's servers first started going down and it was Kiwi who called up pwebtech to try and get the servers running again.


Hold on there. The servers went down because of the fork bomb...right? Isn't it Kiwi's ip address that was used to connect and launch the script?

So basically, Kiwi did come to the rescue, but it "MAY" (notice the MAY ppl) have been him that actually caused the servers to go down in the first place.

So...what's your point techx?

I am not saying Kiwi is guilty..(i mean..who is going to be so dumb as to use their normal connection to do something illegal..right?) Unless, you're high on something ;)

I'll just wait and see what Kiwi and Alan have to say later on about the entire story.

*runs and gets more popcorn :stickout

Alan Reid,

You stating this is the truth is what busted ya.

This is not the truth but your opinion.

You should retract what you have stated as it's overall affect is diminished by not showing proof.

You are stooping very low in doing this, now say you're sorry. =)

You jumped too fast Alan.

Should have handled this privately to begin with.

NOTHING IN YOUR POST SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT YOU CONTACTING OR ATTEMPTING TO CONTACT MARC AND CO.

For this, your integrity has taken a big hit.

Be careful what you do here as you only have one chance to right it,and so far I don't see you doing this.

My point pcsteve is that this thread is ridiculous. I think it's nuts that Alan has started this ridiculous round robin thing.

All it's doing is hurting both companies.

Who's to say who's right? It's not like you can be a jury when you can't even see the facts.

That's true techx.

Alan could of also contacted McHost first before taking it public.

But hey, i just hope that they do find the correct person and not just jump to conclusions. Cuz. ip address can be spoofed easily...right.

Even if the IP was spoofed, the spoofer would have had to know what IP to use and when to use it. A daunting task at best.

ahh, the truth of what can happen at WHT comes out.

Blood Bath, Not that I have a care in the world about the 2 companies in question. but the overall affect of this community has basically tarnished them.

If I was a new guy looking for a hosting location
I would not choose them, that is plain and simple, why?

One has lack security and let the program that crash the servers run more than once.

The other just because it seems that they might be guilty of association.

Side note:

I feel very vindicated that the 2 most noted quality host have been placed into question. There was a host on this forum ( whom I havent seen for a long time ) that got the abuse at this level.
This calls into question the entire behavior of the forum and the manners of this forum.

-Sqposter / Michael

This entire thread reads like a high-school homeroom. Given that the posters on this board are supposed to be business-people, it is shocking to see the number of accusations & defenses when no proof, of any kind (!!!!!), has been forthcoming.

This thread, first of all, should have never been started. If there is a real issue substantiating Alan's claim, then it is a legal issue & should be handled accordingly, not turned into a public forum where it turns into some kind advertising circus.

The moderators of this board should have had the maturity & foresight to recognize that these claims could severely damage a business, & should have not allowed the thread to continue until the appropriate legal actions were taken, if necessary.

Agreed duration. Too bad McHost and SplashHost aren't in the US. Could be one nasty lawsuit coming from both sides.

SplashHost with it's alegations and McHost with damages from public slander.

I have kept quite all day but figure I would go ahead and post as well.

After seeing the continued threads of "Splash is down!!" I started feeling sorry for the troubles Splash Host was going though.

The day before Alan allowed me access to his machines to fix apache which was not starting.

The next night, I again noticed that the WHT forums were being filled with "Splash Down" threads. I checked if Alan was online, but he wasn't

I then proceeded to log into the server and check the loads, to my amazement the loads were around 900+

I did a ps aux, and found the script. I rebooted the machine, suspended the account and proceeded to investigate

I have full knowledge of all the logs, and and have verified, and triple verified all the facts in this case, along with verifying the logs with 3rd and 4th parties that would have no benefits to this case.

AlaskanWolf, how are you related to Alan? Do you help him occasionally?

Alot of companies have helped me in the past and the only reason I was assisting Alan just this one time regarding the fork bomb was because

1. I was personally tired of seeing WHT being used as a support forum (which i have voiced quite a bit in many threads)

2. I had access to his servers to fix a prior problem

3. Because of my growing knowleage I figured this would be a great way to give back to all the companies that helped me with various server problems

WHN is in no other way assoicated with Splash Host.

I have full knowledge of all the logs, and and have verified, and triple verified all the facts in this case, along with verifying the logs with 3rd and 4th parties that would have no benefits to this case

As a result of the above quote, what is the situation in your opinion (since you have brought it up). Could the ip address have been "spoofed" at all ?

I believe this whole thing out in the public is going to be very bad for both companies no matter the end result :(

with a 99.9999% probability I would have to say that the ip was not spoofed

And that's not my personal opinion, that's my professional opinion

My personal opinion, is that someone at McHost or Marc himself did instigate these attacks purposely.

And bringing this public, I think was a good choice because for someone with any company, management or not, would have to have a large stake in the company or would have to had been persuaded to do this from upper management.

Tech's...billing.....etc..just don't go up and do this on their own...

Think about it logically AlaskanWolf. If you were gonna try and crush you competition through such low tactics as Marc has been accused of, would you actually do it from your home IP? Would you be that stupid?

I think if someone was gonna do this they would have known that things like this get logged. Don't try and tell me that Marc and team are that stupid.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
I have full knowledge of all the logs, and and have verified, and triple verified all the facts in this case, along with verifying the logs with 3rd and 4th parties that would have no benefits to this case.

Knowledge of the logs is not stating you witnessed the logs on the server untouched.

This still shows Splashost made a grievous error posting before contacting the parties involved.

Anomosity is the only reason I can see Alan would handle this inappropriately.

Alan?

This is only a desperate attempt by Alan to retain his last remaining customers.

Alan you now must comment.

Your attempt to slam mchost has failed, now own up.

Wow, this is huge! :eek:

I'm interested as well in the final outcome as I've always thought Kiwi and MCHost was a very reputable company. I still do until something that is proven otherwise. Remember, in the United States (believe it or not) you are innocent until proven guilty. Just my opinion...

Originally posted by Hostbust
This is only a desperate attempt by Alan to retain his last remaining customers.

Alan you now must comment.

Your attempt to slam mchost has failed, now own up.

To me it seems more like you're trying to slam Splash Host. Do you know for a fact that Alan didn't contact Marc before posting this thread?
As far as I know, Alan hasn't had any problems with this rogue script over the past couple of weeks, so his customers are happy.

Originally posted by Kiwi


Yes, i do deny it. But i cannot deny if it was done through my IP or a server IP because until now, i have not been able to see the log files from Alan, but we are still talking.

Could a third person get access to one of Mchost servers and from there place a proxy so he could spoof via the IP of Mchost and place the script on the Splash server (have Mchost checked their logs)? Both companies could have been hit by a third person. I cant believe that Mchost could do a such risky thing with their own IP! I am not saying that Mchost is not guilty but if they are discussing a fees for the damages then Mchost might have done something wrong, like a leak in their own security!

Originally posted by techx
Think about it logically AlaskanWolf. If you were gonna try and crush you competition through such low tactics as Marc has been accused of, would you actually do it from your home IP? Would you be that stupid?

I think if someone was gonna do this they would have known that things like this get logged. Don't try and tell me that Marc and team are that stupid.

I think the facts of this case are very strong and the end result show everyone the facts.

Until then, everyone has their opinions and you can come to your own conclusion. But understand, WHN, SplashHost, Pwebtech, and anyone else involved can not release the evidence in a public forum.

I have no interest in either company, I would not make up slanderious comments out of thin air.

Like i explained to another host the other day, Web hosting has a big enough customer base that each company can share in the wealth, so alot of hosts turn to other hosts to help out with server issues etc....I have personally turned to many companies for help over the past, and from that, i was able to gain vast knowleage of servers, red hat, linux etc....

In the end, the facts of this case will speak for themselves

Originally posted by voxtreme-matt


To me it seems more like you're trying to slam Splash Host. Do you know for a fact that Alan didn't contact Marc before posting this thread?
As far as I know, Alan hasn't had any problems with this rogue script over the past couple of weeks, so his customers are happy.

I dont have to slam splashost, they have done it to themselves way better than I could have done it.

By starting this thread without absolute proof accusing mchost , and more specifically Marc of doing something that is so ludicrous (IMHO) is testament to the underhanded movement by Alan himself.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf


I think the facts of this case are very strong and the end result show everyone the facts.

Until then, everyone has their opinions and you can come to your own conclusion. But understand, WHN, SplashHost, Pwebtech, and anyone else involved can not release the evidence in a public forum.

I have no interest in either company, I would not make up slanderious comments out of thin air.

Like i explained to another host the other day, Web hosting has a big enough customer base that each company can share in the wealth, so alot of hosts turn to other hosts to help out with server issues etc....I have personally turned to many companies for help over the past, and from that, i was able to gain vast knowleage of servers, red hat, linux etc....

In the end, the facts of this case will speak for themselves

And it is not a case.

It is a thread on a message board.

Originally posted by Hostbust


I dont have to slam splashost, they have done it to themselves way better than I could have done it.

By starting this thread without absolute proof accusing mchost , and more specifically Marc of doing something that is so ludicrous (IMHO)

I honestly agree as well... Not just because I am a client of MC Host, but because everyone knows it. 5 year olds are taught to go tell someone (a principal) if they are beat up by someone, not to go spit in the other persons face making everyone else hate that person....

First of all, yeah, hell it should have been discussed between the two first.. If this is false, Splash Host can have their asses sued by MC Host... Think of it that way...

Sean

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
...
In the end, the facts of this case will speak for themselves

You make the assumption that the facts will be aired in the end.

Many discussions and settlements of this type are kept strictly confidential (as they should be).

Here's what I don't get. Why have a demo account on every server? And why have one on a production server at all?

And of course, why allow a demo account to run cgi scripts?

I would think that splashhost could be sued by their customers for gross incompetence.

Then splashost could sue the hacker, whomever it may be.

And everyone would get their suing in, and everyone would learn their lesson, and everyone would be happy.

Due to the situation, am surprised that both parties are not seeking legal council

Business is business....and this looks like it has gone past the point of no return now .....

Originally posted by bitserve
Here's what I don't get. Why have a demo account on every server? And why have one on a production server at all?

And of course, why allow a demo account to run cgi scripts?

I would think that splashhost could be sued by their customers for gross incompetence.

Then splashost could sue the hacker, whomever it may be.

And everyone would get their suing in, and everyone would learn their lesson, and everyone would be happy. Mark, great take on this LOL

The reason hosts will have demo's on every server is for their resellers that need access to a demo.

EDIT: Mark's name is not Kark, sorry Mark

Originally posted by SplashHost.com
Im serious, he used demo accounts.

As much as I would like to believe that, why are you having FULL ACCESS demo accounts?

Demo accounts should be for CPanel.. NOT for ftp.. Anyone with common sense should sure as hell know this.. And CPanel should be limited, with only very few things functioning...

like i said, anyone should know this.

Sean

I am a customer of MCHost and regardless of the end verdict it disgusts me that this was taken public before the TRUTH was known. I dont care what evidence anybody has, coming forward with this information without either a guilty verdict from a court of law or a confession from the accused party is the wrong thing to do. IMHO, I dont see any reason for Marc or anybody who has a successful company like MCHost to do the things he has been accused of.

I will definately be let down if this is true but I do not think it is. Like many other people on these forums now I would like to know the answer. Alan brought up the topic and it is now his job to put closure to it between what him and Marc work out. I would hope that we dont get an answer 'we recieved XXX$$$ from so and so and everything is ok now' I want to know only one of two things: either he is guilty or he in innocent - nothing more. I dont care who did the crime if it was not MCHost, not because I do not want Splashost to find the guilty party but because my business depends upon MCHost's business.

-Mike

Did you think it might be because you only have 1 server?

I don't know....but just another possibility.

I have just finished reading through the thread. :(

I just have to say that I am quite dissappointed by what I have seen so far , to think that Hosting companies may actually be destroying each others servers. It really makes you think about things. Anyway I look forward to hearing the outcome of this story and I just hope it's a big misunderstanding (although I am not sure how it could be) :confused: :eek:

Best Regards,
Ronan
rfhost.com

I can see why Alan has posted this thread; the alleged attacks by MC Host were done for one purpose, to damage Splashhost's reputation.

With splashhost's reputation tarnished the next choice for a reseller deal would be MC Host as there has been a lot of posts saying "who is better" and they have both been rated equally.

It will be interesting to see the outcome of this scenario, the only person who's reputation that will be damaged from all of this is MC Host, Alan is simply informing the Hosting community of what has happened and if he has the proof he says he has then he is in his right to do so.

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf


But understand, WHN, SplashHost, Pwebtech, and anyone else involved can not release the evidence in a public forum.



No, they can just release unsubstantiated accusations without any onus to back them up with inconvenient things like facts.

Hey, Alan, Alaskan Wolf and Chicken, I've got photos of all three of you involved in an act of carnal congress with a wombat. I've shown them to a couple of friends and they are sure it's you and a wombat. However I don't really want to take the photos to the police for a bestiality charge and, as I am sure you will appreciate, I can't post any of my evidence on a public forum...

Ask yourselves who benefits from all this?

I agree with many here that it is terrible that Alan brought this to WebHostingTalk before being absolutely sure. I don't think that he contacted MCHost before this post. Otherwise, why would the ICQ conversation be necessary? It seems that people like to post bad things about hosts here before they know everything, because they know it would get attention.

As either Chicken or Alan (don't remember which) said, it was recommended that Alan contact a lawyer. I doubt he did, because a lawyer's advice would NOT be "go post this damaging claim you're not completely sure of on a message board before contacting MCHost". Unless it was an incredibly bad lawyer...

As for the claim against MCHost, I find it very difficult (although not completely impossible) to believe. It's hard to believe that someone would do this to a competitor. Sure SplashHost may haven taken some of MCHost's business but they still had a good reputation and were recommended by pretty much everyone. And it's even harder to believe that someone would be stupid enough to do this themselves, from their own computer. And IP spoofing claims seem kind of weak too. How would someone know the right IP? Unless one of the moderators here did it (ha!), how would an attacker know which IP to use, and when?

There is no possible good outcome of this. If it turns out that Alan was right, MCHost's reputation will be severly hurt, and I doubt they'd get much business from people around here anymore. If it turns out that Alan was wrong, SplashHost will be hurt by bringing out a claim this terrible againsta competitor. And if it turns out that the spoofing arguement is true, SplashHost will also be hurt, because they posted this story without knowing the facts. The damage is already done. 5400 views, 120 replies, and climbing.

As bitserve says, it does seem pretty stupid to have a demo account with CGI access and all. That's a problem waiting to happen, and it's not something that would be unforseen. Intentionally give everyone on the Internet the ability to run their own script and you're asking for trouble.

Bah. Personally I would not sign up with SplashHost after this, whatever the outcome is. Because if Alan is wrong, absolutely terrible. If Alan is right, though, he still brought this to WHT first. You don't do that. As for MCHost it's pretty obvious that I wouldn't go with them if this is true.

:bawling:

Originally posted by appletreats
I agree with many here that it is terrible that Alan brought this to WebHostingTalk before being absolutely sure. I don't think that he contacted MCHost before this post. Otherwise, why would the ICQ conversation be necessary? It seems that people like to post bad things about hosts here before they know everything, because they know it would get attention.

I cannot speak for anyone else, however if I spent a great deal of time and energy in building up my hosting company, and then had the servers continuously crashing I would be angry to say the least. If I then found a very possible source of the problem, in another host, I would be furious, and without thinking I would 99.9% likely do the exact same as Alan has done.

I really do not think he is to blame for his actions. Don't think "what should he have done", think "what would I have done"

If you have ever spent a great deal of time on anything in your life, I believe you will come to the same conclusion I did.

Here's a couple of the issues, far as I know...

Demo accounts:
You guys have resellers. Resellers may set up demo accounts so their potential clients can check out the server and the cp, etc. These accounts can be used for attacks.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think there was a thread about this (in regards to a splash host reseller), on WHT not too long ago. It may have been linked to in this thread.

Evidence:
Evidence of an attack cannot be posted for you to see. Log files don't have people's names and numbers in them, they only contain a certain amount of information which can then be compared to other information or traced through an ISP, etc. It isn't going to show:

02.22.2002 Bob Jones uploaded a server crashing file.

I've talked with people who confirmed a certain IP was responsible, (and I've seen the parts of the logs that pertain to this), and all I can do is compare the IPs and the times and confirm if a member posted during that period, etc. I cannot say who was responsible for what went on in that server, only what went on at the forum. No one could by looking at the logs themselves and having no other information.

In other words, my original suggestion to Alan still stands. He should talk to Marc and/or a lawyer.

Call me a pollyanna, but..

If I was a hacker (and I'm not)
and I had gotten caught doing something against TOS (which I haven't)
and got kicked off of TWO hosts (which I haven't)
Can you think of a better way to take revenge than to pit one host against the other?

Just a thought..

I really don't think that posting an accusation in a forum is a business like thing to do...

and at the risk of getting AK Wolf upset, I don't think I would have provided tidbits of privlaged information, as tempting as it might be. The two hosts have already stated they are attempting to sort it out. I'm afraid that this may have added kindling to the fire.

My two pence worth

Cheers
Kat

Alan should then sue Mark, and not even talk to Mark. Let the court decide. This is America, the wierdest things happen. You should NOT even talk to Mark. The first time you should talk to him is in the court. Catch him by suprise, and I'll bet you'll get a lot of money. Business is Business right?

Originally posted by Chicken

Demo accounts:
You guys have resellers. Resellers may set up demo accounts so their potential clients can check out the server and the cp, etc. These accounts can be used for attacks.

If there's one thing we should learn if we haven't already from this regardless of the outcome... do not give your demo accounts much in terms of rights. Dont let them use cgi scripts, shell access etc.. give them very very little space so they can't upload anything that they may be able to execute etc...

Even if you are just a reseller of a host and you dont physically own the hardware, you still suffer if your host goes down.

-Mike

Exactly Chicken, well said post. Finding out who is attacking a server is very hard when all you can do is compare logs and ips.

I belive Alan is in the process of contacting a lawyer. I think this thread has erupted into a name calling thread and people really need stick to the topic

Yes but Alan is opening himself up to a counter suit, and from some research MCHost is quite capable in protecting themselves.

Alan made a big mistake creating this thread without showing proof.

Originally posted by Panzerfaust
Alan should then sue Mark, and not even talk to Mark. Let the court decide. This is America, the wierdest things happen. You should NOT even talk to Mark. The first time you should talk to him is in the court. Catch him by suprise, and I'll bet you'll get a lot of money. Business is Business right?


Yes, this is America. But SplashHost is in UK and MCHost is in Canada.

Hostbust

its already been explained why Alan cant release such information and i think this thread is starting to repeat past posts

Originally posted by AlaskanWolf
Hostbust

its already been explained why Alan cant release such information and i think this thread is starting to repeat past posts

Not good enough.

He posted unsubstantiated information without backing it up and is now hiding.

I expect him to post.

Originally posted by Panzerfaust
Alan should then sue Mark, and not even talk to Mark. Let the court decide. This is America, the wierdest things happen. You should NOT even talk to Mark. The first time you should talk to him is in the court. Catch him by suprise, and I'll bet you'll get a lot of money. Business is Business right?

Well you've gotta remember that one company is in UK and the other in Canada. It's not gonna be an easy task in regards to jurisdiction. -- And the amount of money that both companies would sink into a lawsuit like this would not be worth their while (IMO) since they are both companies that started up last year.

Originally posted by Relyc


I cannot speak for anyone else, however if I spent a great deal of time and energy in building up my hosting company, and then had the servers continuously crashing I would be angry to say the least. If I then found a very possible source of the problem, in another host, I would be furious, and without thinking I would 99.9% likely do the exact same as Alan has done.

I really do not think he is to blame for his actions. Don't think "what should he have done", think "what would I have done"

If you have ever spent a great deal of time on anything in your life, I believe you will come to the same conclusion I did.

Not at all. These accusations, first & foremost, constitute a situation only to be handled legally. Not by stirring up a group of hosts on a public forum, not by having associates claim that facts are present when, truthfully, no facts related to the original accusation--i.e. that Marc himself was responsible--but only by going through the proper channels.

If, in the end, Alan is unable to prove 100% that Marc was behind anything (which, personally, I don't think it provable in the first place), then this entire situation boils down to one company (S.H.) trying to point the finger for their misfortunes at a competitor, based on nothing but speculation.

That, my friends, is what makes slander & defamation of character.

I am still talking through this situation with Alan on ICQ, so i thought i'll update you guys with some fresh news. Facts are:


I was never contacted by Alan on this matter. I have found out about this thread early this morning (after 4 hours of sleep, btw.) by myself and contacted Alan immediately.

With the customer base we have, there is no need for us to grab customers from other companies. All hosts in this industry have a fair share. In fact, most of our employees are working 16+ hours every day since we are growing faster than expected. It would be stupid to look around for even more customers than we already receive every day.

A proxy server has been running on my network here for certain employees.

Yes, it was not password protected. This is my fault and i accept responsibility for this. Yes, this IP is logged into all of our machines every day and visible to anyone with shell access.

No, i have not hacked into Alan's server at any time. And i seriously doubt any of our employees would.

No, i have not yet been shown any evidence at all.

Yes, i will be (hopefully) going through the server logs with Alan to track down what happened and who did it.

While Alan is estimating the damage on his business caused by this, we will be doing the same on the damage caused to MCHost.


This issue will take some time to get completely resolved, but it will be resolved between the two parties which this issue is all about, MCHost and SplashHost - not on WHT but privately which is the way business should be done.

Thanks for taking the time and reading our part of the story :)

It is perfectly legitimate to make a public claim if the evidence backs up that claim. The evidence does not have to be introduced to back it up unless a defamation suit is brought against the claimant.

The evidence apparently exists to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that someone using Kiwi's DSL connection is responsible for this. Otherwise I can't imagine it would have been posted in the first place.

Well said as well Marc

With that said, i think this thread should be put on hold while both companies sort this mess out.

Originally posted by Kiwi

While Alan is estimating the damage on his business caused by this, we will be doing the same on the damage caused to MCHost.


:agree:

Originally posted by Kiwi
This issue will take some time to get completely resolved, but it will be resolved between the two parties which this issue is all about, MCHost and SplashHost - not on WHT but privately which is the way business should be done.[/B]

:(

How dare you all deprive me of an exciting scandal outcome. ;)

I'm just surprised how many people who have posted once or twice (or not at all) joined in this thread seemingly convinced they know all about what's going on (none but those directly invovled do).

Originally posted by Phiberop
If there's one thing we should learn if we haven't already from this regardless of the outcome... do not give your demo accounts much in terms of rights. Dont let them use cgi scripts, shell access etc.. give them very very little space so they can't upload anything that they may be able to execute etc...

Even if you are just a reseller of a host and you dont physically own the hardware, you still suffer if your host goes down.

-Mike
Mike, you are entirely correct. There is one issue you sort of hinted at, but I'm not sure it is clear enough...

I'm not sure how to say this. What you control is one thing. You should know what to set up and what not to set up but some control panels are powerful, and can be set to give some pretty hefty rights to clients.

Such as complete dns and account set up.

Your resellers may set up a 'demo' account with full permissions and not realize what they have done. I've never used cpanel (well I did but I've never used it as a server admin), but I have used plesk and it can be set up so my client could all but admin the server. They don't get root acccess, but they can control a great deal.

Typically, it is your reseller who has to be made aware of all of this. As I said, they could be setting up a 'demo' account and opening a huge hole on your server.

I'm not sure if I said everything right to get the point across, but I hope you get the meaning and the main idea. The point was that the danger may lie in what your fully enabled reseller does, not just you.

edited

Funny how all the hosts have been backing Alan while a few customers, (McHost customers;)) have been backing Marc.

Other hosts can understand this on Alan's level while certain members are just fueling their own blatant self interest.

The parties in question are in discussion now. I think the moderators should close this thread the rest is a bunch of hot air -- and mud slinging.

Originally posted by bitserve
Here's what I don't get. Why have a demo account on every server? And why have one on a production server at all?

And of course, why allow a demo account to run cgi scripts?

I would think that splashhost could be sued by their customers for gross incompetence.

Then splashost could sue the hacker, whomever it may be.

And everyone would get their suing in, and everyone would learn their lesson, and everyone would be happy.


Ahh the American way "oooo i got hurt, lets sue.. i need money"

Let's see what the outcome will be, we will need to be informed of course, otherwise Splash Host and MChost will no longer be recommended....

Originally posted by NexDog
Funny how all the hosts have been backing Alan while a few customers, (McHost customers;)) have been backing Marc.

Other hosts can understand this on Alan's level while certain members are just fueling their own blatant self interest.

I am a MCHost customer and I back both of the parties involved. I want Alan to find out what exactly happened and pursue it regardless of who the guilty party is. If the guilty party should turn out to be Marc then he deserves every bit of disrespect some people here are giving him now. I also back Marc, because MCHost is my provider and if Marc is not guiltly of this he needs to hold his ground and defend the allegations to help prevent any further damage to MCHost's name which directly effects how I can conduct my business.

I think you are looking at this the wrong way, you say "Other hosts can understand this on Alan's level while certain members are just fueling their own blatant self interest." Keep this in mind, most of MCHosts's customers are web hosts themselves, resellers they may be but they do run a web hosting business and they likely want to defend Marc if the believe he is innocent for the same reasons I do (success of MCHost directly effects the success of the reseller). True is the fact that most MCHost customers wont want the allegations to be correct but can you blame them for sticking up for Marc regardless of the evidence? I dont think you can, I think if you were in the shoes of a MCHost customer that you would not want this to be true and you would defend them or just keep quiet (I highly doubt you would badmouth them).

-Mike

Originally posted by techx
The parties in question are in discussion now. I think the moderators should close this thread the rest is a bunch of hot air -- and mud slinging.

I agree. The point has been made, if you were thinking of becoming a customer of MCHost you probably want to wait and see the final verdict. The rest of the thread has been heated debate regarding SplashHost releasing this publicly and a debate of common business ethics and how they may have been broken should the allegations be true.

-Mike

Originally posted by NexDog
Funny how all the hosts have been backing Alan while a few customers, (McHost customers;)) have been backing Marc.

Other hosts can understand this on Alan's level while certain members are just fueling their own blatant self interest.

It is like a web hosting version of Web Side Story.



Just my opinion, but I know who did what, and I know most others do too. Just by common sense alone. Read all the post, read what each person has stated, take your understanding of server mangement (if you have any), and put the picture together. It really is quite simple. If you think there was a gunman on the grassy knowl, then ........

duration, welcome to the boards. Or welcome to a new username. :D

I don't want to take any sides in this whole mess and I don't know Alan nor do I know Marc personally, but from what I've seen, Marc seems like a very nice guy and I doubt he would do such horrible thing. They seem to have a very successfull company as well and don't need to hack other company's servers to get more customers.

Originally posted by Kiwi


This issue will take some time to get completely resolved, but it will be resolved between the two parties which this issue is all about, MCHost and SplashHost - not on WHT but privately which is the way business should be done.

Thanks for taking the time and reading our part of the story :)

This started in the public, and should end with the public as to the outcome (who is at fault).

Both companies will be blacklisted for now.

I disagree with you warp. It doesn't have to end here on WHT. I think all SplashHost and McHost will be required to do is inform their customers of their current company standings. They may issue a joint statement once the issue is resovled, but that is their perogative.

Of course I'm sure once a conclusion is made you will read about it here on WHT since everything these days shows up on WHT. -- Someone will post something, whether it's reliable or not I guess is for the individual to decide.

By the way my home server is down ... WAAAHHHHH! I'm gonna bash some company for it.

Originally posted by appletreats


I believe him. I saw another topic (same as the one freakboy is talking about?) about this @ MCHost forums get deleted. But wouldn't you do it too? Or would you let people openly discuss stuff like this on your company's public forums?

It's a private matter and is being discussed very openly in the Resellers section of the MCHost forum ATM.

It's obvious that a hacker has used IPs from Marc's neck of the woods and gone after SpashHost.com. Is this impossible? Of course not. Why would Marc do such a dumb thing and leave such an obvious trail?? It doesn't make sense. Why would Marc and MChost want more business? They have too much now.

All I have to say is, holy crap! Why do so many people have to jump to conclusions? There are so many different possibilities here. We should wait until the whole truth is known before making any judgements.

Jeez, you are all so stupid. It kills me that one person can post a completely unsubstantiated accusation and have half the community on their side.

Are you all idiots? Did you all lose your sense of self-respect and reason?

Here are the facts.

SPLASHOST supplied the "proof" in question, here. (the log files)

The "proof" was not supplied by an independent party, like the upstream NOC, or somewhere else. Therefore it is not relevant. You could post all the log files in the world, and they would STILL not "prove" anything.

How the hell do you all know that splashhost didn't do a simple search and replace on their own logfiles? I don't doubt they were attacked. But I do seriously doubt the validity of their "proof". So should you.

And even if the ip address is real... so what? It merely proves that someone attacked splashhost via an mchost server. MCHost may be liable for the attack, but this doesn't mean THEY actually did it.

If someone launched an attack through YOUR servers on YOUR competitor.. and your competitor posted here saying YOU attacked them.. how the hell would you feel?

Wake up folks!

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37292

You should all read that.. and realize how idiotic it sounds.

Hey, maybe I should do another post accusing [insert YOUR company name here] of attacking my servers!

Jeez...

Originally posted by stupid99
. . . . .Are you all idiots? . . . . .:cartman: I am.

Or was.

or am.

or

hmmm

Can't quite figure it out. :eek2:

Originally posted by stupid99
Jeez, you are all so stupid. . . . . .Well now that I would have to disagree with.

<< MOD EDIT >>

For your information, I deleted it. Why don't you just use the real names of the companies instead of creating fictional names? It seems you are out to make fun of these companies.

<< /MOD EDIT >>

This has gotten out of hand. Since both parties are looking to resolve this off the board, this topic is closed. If they want to post the results of this, they may do so.