Hi,

I'm looking for a dedicated server with cpanel/whm with the approx spec: -

528 - 756 RAM
Pentium 700 - 1GHz
20GB HD
20 GB BW/Month

After searching this and other forums I've narrowed it to the following providers:

Pwebtech
Venturesonline
Site5
Burst.net

Before I make a final decision I would like your thoughts on which company you think is best. I'm looking for excellent support and fast/reliable connections to the UK (which is where the website audience are located) - I'm not very well versed in 'connections' so I'd really appreciate your advise on this.

Many thanks in advance & I hope you can help me make the fianl decision !

If your target audience is primarily in the UK, why not host here? Ok, so you will probably end up paying slightly more, but you should not experience the occasional problems that arise when Trans Atlantic traffic is hindered by routing problems.

Of the ones listed above. Only one other site5 has direct connections to the UK.

Pegasus / Site5 both are in the NAC network. This gives us a direct OC3 line to the UK where we hook up with the BBC, deamon internet and about 20 other UK providers. So in terms of international connectivity, We (pegasus / site5) would have the best connectivity.

If your target audience is primarily in the UK, why not host here? Ok, so you will probably end up paying slightly more, but you should not experience the occasional problems that arise when Trans Atlantic traffic is hindered by routing problems.

The reason I'd rather host in the US is because of the cost, dedicated server prices in the UK are extortionate - eg probably 3-4 times what you would pay for the same spec in the US. I've also been advised by our UK tech that the connections from the US are often better/faster than what you would often get in the UK - any difference is certainly not worth paying 3 times + more for anyway.

Jayglate - I have heard good reports about Pwebtech and if you can offer something like the above spec (at prices similar to your offers in the 'Offers' forum - not on your website!) then drop me an e-mail.

Further comments on the above companies from independant people would be appreciated to help me cement my decision.

PS: This Server will only have one site on it so I only need around 20GB/month (currently using only 4GB/month).

Go with Ventures Online... I've been with them for a year now and have never had any problems with them at all. They have excellent support, answers are always within an hour and they give very intelligent responses.

Since they moved into their own data center speeds to/in the UK have improved alot. I'm sure other VO clients will chime in about how great they are. :D

It really depends on who your audience is and how much you care about your customers. If the audience is the UK (more than 90%), then yes, you shuld consider having the server in a UK data centre as it will be much quicker than having it in the US, but it'll also be more expensive. Rackspace.co.uk have got a new data centre in London, they are a very good company, but on the expensive side.

The speed difference won't be that much difference though, since the web server are to be accessed worldwide. If you're on a budget, then host it in the US where the prices are cheaper.

Pwebtech is in a 'high profile' mode at the moment with all the responses trom their customers praising them. I liked Burst.net previously but their website has not been updated for a long time, they haven't posted on this forum for some time and also their sales phone line wasn't too good, well not impressive enough for me to go with them.

I'm also located in the UK, but the majoirty of my customers are from the US, so it makes sense to have the server in the US.

I hope this helps you somewhat :).

Alan

Hi, thanks for the advise - 90% of my customers are UK based so speed/reliability of connection are important - which is my only concern about VO. Below you can see the difference on pings from VO & Pwebtech - which to me is fairly substantial - I've also seen more hops on some UK servers I've tested (than 11) - so it does seem to back up Jay's post about them having the better UK connection.

I would host in the UK - but to pay 3+ times more for exactly the same server doesn't really seem worth it.

PWebtech
Hop Router name IP Address ms ms ms
1 gw.uk2net.com 213.239.57.1 0 0 0
2 fe0-0-0-103-vl103-b-uk2net-gw.LTEr1.core.band-x.net 213.166.0.89 1 1 0
3 ge1-0-0-c-lter1.LTNr1.core.band-x.net 213.166.1.21 1 3 1
4 unknown.Level3.net 212.187.151.10 78 5 1
5 gigabitethernet4-0-262.metro1-londencyh00.London1.Level3.net 212.187.151.9 2 1 2
6 rt-linx-a.thdo.bbc.co.uk 195.66.224.103 1 2 2
7 212.58.239.130 212.58.239.130 2 2 3
8 nac-gw.thdo.bbc.co.uk 212.58.255.178 4 2 3
9 a9-0-0-245.msfc1.oct.nac.net 209.123.11.217 76 76 76
10 fa0-0.core1.pwebtech.com 207.99.8.198 77 75 75
11 64.21.5.34 64.21.5.34 76 76 76

VenturesOnline

Hop Router name IP Address ms ms ms
1 gw.uk2net.com 213.239.57.1 0 0 0
2 f03-06.lrh-icr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.198.121 0 0 0
3 g03-01.lon-bbr-02.carrier1.net 212.4.211.117 0 0 0
4 p13-00.nyc-bbr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.193.186 89 89 89
5 p01-00.chi-ixr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.199.26 121 121 121
6 p06-01-00.san-ixr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.200.66 177 177 177
7 a4-0-3.snjpca1-cr1.bbnplanet.net 4.24.145.9 157 157 158
8 p1-0.snjpca1-br1.bbnplanet.net 4.24.9.133 158 158 157
9 p9-0.snjpca1-br2.bbnplanet.net 4.24.9.130 158 157 158
10 so-0-0-0.dnvtco1-br2.bbnplanet.net 4.0.6.226 161 161 161
11 p1-0.dnvtco1-cr2.bbnplanet.net 4.24.11.42 163 161 161
12 p2-0.dnvtco1-cr1.bbnplanet.net 4.24.11.57 161 161 161
13 gigabitethernet0.yipes9.bbnplanet.net 4.25.24.62 154 153 153
14 209.50.40.181 209.50.40.181 154 154 155
15 rif2.den015si01.yipes.com 209.50.40.62 154 154 155
16 66.7.174.90 66.7.174.90 158 154 155
17 130.94.170.6 130.94.170.6 156 155 249

I've been a long-standing supporter of Ventures Online, that's no secret. :) My experience started as a reseller for them, I run several websites (one of which is currently up to about 1.5 gigs transfer/mo., and growing at a frightening rate *grin*) and decided that since I was already obsessed with server connectivity, why not resell accts to pay for my time? :)

So I have. Ventures Online is my sixth web host, I have run the full gamut including Hiway Technologies (remember them? I think I am dating myself), ***** *gag*, AITcom.net *slow learner*, nomonthly.com, Ultraspeed.com, Burst.net for a short time, and finally VO. I guess VO is my 7th then. heh. Trust me, I've been to hell and back. :)

In a nutshell... the only ones I would recommend (of those still "alive") are nomonthly.com (because I never had problems with them, but I was only with them for three months and I hear that experience is inconsistent), and VO. I had problems with EVERY one of the rest, to some degree or another, but problems to an adequate extent that I would caution going with any of the others.

~~~~~~~~~

VO-specific:

My one resold account is growing by leaps and bounds -- one of my own sites -- so I did a little math (costs, bandwidth) and decided it was time to get my own box.

Let it be known, I knew nothing about server mgmt. :rolleyes: Admittedly a newbie, I could wiggle my way around beautifully with CPanel/WHM, but the command line struck fear in my heart. (OK, it still does, but I don't tremble anymore). Moving to your own server is a labor- and support-intensive enterprise that lays perfect opportunity for your hosting company to let you down. I have read many horror stories where people got their own box and were left to hang; were given poor answers to questions; and had tickets go unanswered. I mean, a girl could get really screwed here.

But I took a leap of faith and banked on VO's track record. They've always answered my tickets within 10 min. as a reseller. Every single issue has been at the least explained, and have always been fixed promptly. The techs were always friendly and helpful. I have never been made to feel stupid.

VO had my box online within a week of placing the order. There were about 50 things I didn't understand and they answered every question I had. There were a few things I had to configure (as with any server) and they provided excellent step-by-step instructions. When I wanted to shut off some messages, they told me how. When I needed to custom-config some settings, they offered me step-by-step command line solutions. I would send in a ticket, and 20 min. later, there was a fix. And they never made me feel stupid, even though *I* like a complete moron. :) I know these were basic newbie server questions, and I felt so guilty for taking up their time asking this stuff. But they answered like it was the first time they'd been asked, as friendly and helpful as could be. I put in a whole bunch of tickets that first few days, and they were all answered asap. And that was after I im'd a few of the support guys (hehe) and they answered those other ?'s directly. :)

Don't worry, you'll be able to do 95% of what you need to do thru CPanel and WHM. Almost all the other ?'s are somewhere in either VO's support forums, or in the CPanel.net forums, just gotta search around. :)

As far as the server itself, I have a 933 mHz/256 with the daily backups and I just love it. My sites just fly and VO is going to move my resold accounts to the new box too. (I was able to move all of my own sites, naturally, but I don't have access to the resold accounts on the shared server)

Thanks to VO, and many helpful VO customers too, I have learned volumes about server mgmt. and I have not had a single ? go unanswered. This was a real opportunity to be a total flop, and the cool thing is I've had someone with me every step of the way. :)

Finally -- uptime at the new data center -- has been outstanding. Particularly with my own server -- it has performed like a swiss watch, and the connectivity has been super. I have absolutely no qualms about that aspect.

It should be said that I have no experience with PWebtech or Site5, although I would recommend doing a search> here in the WHT forums to get a historical/recent view of other customers' connectivity issues with these companies. As far as Burst, I know they have their own data center now and can't speak for their connectivity, but I was not pleased with the support when I was there. Of course I speak for only my experience. ;)

Hope this helps! Congrats on the new box.
:D Bailey

Regarding the posted traceroutes>

I just wanted to make a couple of short comments:

(1) is your viewer base on broadband, or dial-up? If they are on broadband, they might notice those time differences, but if they are on dial-up, EVERYTHING is slow, and 80 ms is not going to make a make-or-break difference. *grin*

(2) I have MANY customers to whom I ship internationally -- I mean all over the globe -- who buy thru my sites hosted at VO. If connectivity truly sucked, I should not be seeing such rapid growth in international business. *shrug* Just a hunch anyway

(3) Pings/traces today will vary in times in six hours, in 12 hours, in 18 hours, and also tomorrow, Friday, Sunday. If the difference in connections between the two was really huge on a consistent basis for an -extended- (multi-month) period of time, then I'd be concerned... but based on what is posted, no, I am confident that connectivity will vary in favor of one or the other depending on an infinite # of conditions on the internet...

(4) The Atlantic Ocean is always a crapshoot. It's a long ways and all you can do is hope. :)

(5) I am not familiar with PWebtech's connections specifically, but I do know for a fact that VO is working with four different providers right now, and has another 2-3 "in the works" for the next 6 months. None of this single-line-out business as in some other data centers at the moment. :rolleyes: Every system has its burps but I am more confident in VO's redundancy than in most.

OK I'll shut up now. :) And listen to Elena. That girl is smart and she knows her stuff. ;)

*waves to Elena*

:D Bailey

I have to say that pwebtech are very impressive from the UK - they would get my vote here.

Matt, I agree... I've run ping tests on a site located on a pwebtech dedicated server and it gives me 90 and 100ms pings, compared to pings I get from my Rackspace.com server which are around 140ms. These are done from here in the UK and on an ADSL connection.

Pwebtech's connection really are good, I havent hosted with them before, but if they updated their site, I could have went with them, just that I couldn't see the price when I wanted it. I wonder how cheap they are now, any idas anyone?

Alan

I'll respond to those traceroutes.

From the looks of the pwebtech trace their dropping off right onto Level3 in England and going from there.... as far as the one to us, You'd have to speak with Carrier1.net to find out why in the world they are taking you half way around the globe and dropping you off in Sanfrancisco California instead of NewYork, we have connectivity via both Genuity and Level3 which both have peering points in the UK, if it appears to be a large enough issue we can see what we can do to press the issue and get the routing changed :)

Carrier1 is taking the packets from London to NY, then bouncing on their US network for a couple hops:

2 f03-06.lrh-icr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.198.121 0 0 0
3 g03-01.lon-bbr-02.carrier1.net 212.4.211.117 0 0 0
4 p13-00.nyc-bbr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.193.186 89 89 89
5 p01-00.chi-ixr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.199.26 121 121 121
6 p06-01-00.san-ixr-01.carrier1.net 212.4.200.66 177 177 177
7 a4-0-3.snjpca1-cr1.bbnplanet.net 4.24.145.9 157 157 158

Then it hands it off to Genuity.

As for VO, I'm on my 11th month anniversary with them. My server was perfect up until recently since I had some issues but they resolved it in a professional manner. If I were to recommend people, I would send them to VO since I have personal experiences with them.

One thing that can change is the routing. The routing from me to them is crazy.. but the speeds are good. I get about 5 Mbits downloading from my server :)

Here's my trace.. You can see what I mean by crazy hops:

9 at-gsr1-nyc-3-0-OC12.appliedtheory.net (169.130.3.29) 12.831 ms 12.591 ms 11.182 ms
10 12.125.51.209 (12.125.51.209) 11.632 ms 10.713 ms 10.940 ms
11 gbr1-p20.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.123.1.130) 11.842 ms 12.038 ms 10.851 ms
12 gbr3-p70.n54ny.ip.att.net (12.122.1.149) 11.947 ms 10.915 ms 11.008 ms
13 gbr3-p10.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.122.3.54) 16.849 ms 18.698 ms 19.763 ms
14 ggr1-p360.wswdc.ip.att.net (12.123.9.49) 17.228 ms 17.153 ms 17.377 ms
15 att-gw.dc.genuity.net (192.205.32.114) 17.046 ms 18.047 ms 16.883 ms
16 so-3-1-0.washdc3-nbr2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.8.121) 17.266 ms 17.093 ms 18.463 ms
17 p9-0.phlapa1-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.10.186) 20.198 ms 23.333 ms 20.137 ms
18 p15-0.phlapa1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.10.89) 24.456 ms 24.049 ms 24.010 ms
19 p9-0.iplvin1-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.10.182) 35.181 ms 34.628 ms 34.479 ms
20 so-6-0-0.chcgil2-br1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.9.57) 35.150 ms 34.490 ms 33.864 ms
21 so-7-0-0.chcgil2-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.5.218) 34.377 ms 34.508 ms 36.219 ms
22 so-1-0-0.dnvtco1-br2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.9.62) 65.883 ms 66.567 ms 66.457 ms
23 p1-0.dnvtco1-cr2.bbnplanet.net (4.24.11.42) 67.816 ms 66.689 ms 67.172 ms
24 p2-0.dnvtco1-cr1.bbnplanet.net (4.24.11.57) 66.910 ms 67.008 ms 66.927 ms
25 gigabitethernet0.yipes9.bbnplanet.net (4.25.24.62) 75.200 ms 74.324 ms 73.807 ms
26 rif0.den003bd02.yipes.com (209.50.40.181) 74.814 ms 74.976 ms 73.825 ms
27 rif2.den015si01.yipes.com (209.50.40.62) 77.288 ms 74.839 ms 74.747 ms
28 66.7.174.90 (66.7.174.90) 76.783 ms 74.812 ms 74.967 ms
29 130.94.170.6 (130.94.170.6) 75.009 ms 74.495 ms 75.619 ms

Dan, can you do something about this?? :)

Originally posted by DanielP
I'll respond to those traceroutes.

From the looks of the pwebtech trace their dropping off right onto Level3 in England and going from there.... as far as the one to us, You'd have to speak with Carrier1.net to find out why in the world they are taking you half way around the globe and dropping you off in Sanfrancisco California instead of NewYork, we have connectivity via both Genuity and Level3 which both have peering points in the UK, if it appears to be a large enough issue we can see what we can do to press the issue and get the routing changed :)

Yup, I went straight over L3's transatlantic link into Pwebtech, in about 10 hops (incidentally, which is fewer hops from our servers, which are too on the Level3 network on the east coast)

Not going to argue with traceroutes but I am a UK person and had to have the same though when picking my server, although my audience is global. My server is with VO and they have always been quick from the UK, and even a bit faster since their new move to their own datacenter.

I certainly wouldn't pick your server on just a few traceroutes (i didn't even look at them to be honest), I can't comment on the other hosts as I have never used them but VO have certainly exceeded my expectations on a number of occassions and are one of the few companies that actually seem to listean to their customers.

It really all depends on the fastest link at any given time, the benefits of BGP4 Routing.. We also have a direct connection to geunity.

I would go with *****!!!!!

Joe

If your traceroutes are half the speed to one vs the other, and the prices and reliability are similar as they seem to be, I would suggest going with the one with the lower ping times. Both companies have good rep's for a reason, you will be happy either place.

-Brendan