Hi all I know that hosting is generally more expensive in the UK because of poor internet/phone line infrastructure and high bandwidth costs but how many of you out there are based in the UK?

Here's a few ....

http://www.ghoulnet.com

http://www.netweaver.com

http://www.webfusion.co.uk

http://www.legend.co.uk

http://www.architec.co.uk

Thanks for them :-)
What do you think of the smaller uk companies, i run one myself and as i have said b4 i have had no complaints so far, i always provide technical support as quickly as possible and i think that there is sometimes a lot of prejudice against smaller companies

we are

any more out there? this seems to be a pretty much US dominated board :(

after sales service is a very important part of the industry and a contact in the uk is a strong incentive for people in the uk, you can offer an understandable accent (have you tried ibm support? wanna guess what continent your phoning:)) and an easy number to dial.
as for the technological sound. the uk is restrictive, you have two choices, the very expensive route of fitting your own leased lines in to your own datacentre, which will cost you a lot per gb and your limited on providers and their reliability is questionable (demon lost their leased lines for about two weeks didnt they?) or colo in docklands which costs on footprint. your never going to get as cheap as the states with the network the way it is.
hopefully mainstream adsl etc will start off an improvement.
and rich us companies fancy doing a cogent inthe uk :)

There are plenty, and lots of DH and FH resellers.

Some others are:

http://www.vibus.net
http://www.dsvr.co.uk
http://www.ultraspeed.co.uk
http://www.kdawebservices.com

Not sure if you can count us, were an MCHost reseller but we are based in the UK :)

We are UK based. We're primarily web designers / developers but we offer hosting as well.

It's true what you say about us having to pay more. It p's me off to see just how much more when I visit US based providers and compare their prices with those of companies over here. General consensus is that US based companies give better customer service overall too. In fact, a couple of friends in the industry actually have dedicated servers with US companies and swear by them.

Things are slowly but surely getting better in the UK though.

Originally posted by kraygerson


General consensus is that US based companies give better customer service overall too.



I would not agree with that, from what is this statement based on?

Thanks

Richard

Originally posted by kraygerson
General consensus is that US based companies give better customer service overall too.

you are kidding right?? what a xenophobic pile of steaming bs. on what basis are you making this statement? theres a few bad apples in the uk such as dh and fh mentioned before but i could reel off a list of bad us companies. there are plenty of reputable uk based companies offering support equalling the quality of that available in the US.

Xenophobic??? Ha! Don't make me laugh! (Really, don't)

Clarification required. What I meant was that general consensus amongst those of my colleagues / friends in the industry who have tried both. Sorry if any confusion was caused there!

Xenophobic? How can it be? I am UK based myself! :emlaugh:

And you'll probably have noted that I have not expressed my own opinion on the subject. (Or maybe not!) I remain open minded.

Xenophobic indeed...

(I notice that you do not dispute the pricing differences though)

The price is greater , yes, but this is not the fault of the hosts, but more because of the bandwidth carriers and as such no hosts are really guilty of overcharging just because they are uk based, but more because that is the business plan they want

thanks

Richard,

I am not laying the blame at the feet of hosting companies per se, although increasingly fierce competition is forcing some previous extortionists to think again! I am fully aware of the reasons as to why some companies have to charge more too.

All I am saying is that it p's me off that we (collectively) have to pay more in this country for just about everything. And this despite the fact that we have one of the strongest economies in Europe...

Rant over. For now!

of course im not disputing the price difference. thats blatantly obvious. there is a much higher price in the uk for bw because the infrastructure wasnt put in place in the 80s cos mad maggie turned down bt on their offer to fibre every road in the uk. 84 i think it was. anyways just because the cost of the raw materials are higher doesnt in any way affect the quality of service, the onlyway i could see it doing so is in a positive way as suppliers try to compensate for the higher price by offering greater support. as for xenophobic, you state we are uk based , not that we are british. but my apologies if i chose the wrong word, maybe misguided would have been better.
you obviously havent dealth with the right companies in the uk.

Richy,

Actually I've dealt with and even worked for a few. I did say that things are slowly getting better but we do have a fair bit of catching up to do.

You may be right in saying that we have yet to deal with the "right" companies. One reason why I have taken up semi-permanent residence on these boards is that I want to find out about any that have thus far escaped my attentions. (I also want to get shot of this Newbie tag too! );)

If you have any opinions on who any of these "right" companies are I'd love to hear them.

Thanks.

Oh and btw we are British, although to be honest I didn't consider that relevant.

Hello
When we set up, it was to bring US style hosting to the UK but I can't say its been spectacularly successful.

By US Style I mean:


proper bandwidth allowances
no domain transfer fees or hidden charges or ads on the pages with a fee to remove them.


The UK market is very Windows orientated and we are only just getting to grips with that now.
Also, the customers tend to be fiercer.
Its not unusual for a support request to consist solely of the customers Lawyers address.

Gordon

Becuase of the higher costs, a UK company has to make sure that it offers a good service and support system as this is an area that is not dictated by price

Our UK and US prices are identical apart from the VAT.

Why would UK prices be higher than US ones?

Gordon

gordon we mean uk based servers at us bandwidth prices. thats not going to happen for a very long time unfortunately.

rmartin summed it up perfectly in his last post.

http://www.interhouse.redbus.com/ENG/ seem a great company but i have limited experience, if you remove donhost and fasthosts and all their their resellers from the uk scene then your left with a far better selection. uk2 might also need to be chucked and ghoulnet but this is only from what ive been told not experienced. by default remove any unlimited hosts:)
most of the traditional telehouse \ docklands companies that are of a decent size should be good for you.
the only reason i buy us is price. i certainly wouldnt buy from the majority of sub 1.50 bucks a gig providers on the strength of their support. all to often i hear you get what you pay for and what do you expect at that price.
i guess i like uk also because i can threaten to visit em:)

Richy,

Exactly. I have a thread on the dedicated hosting board asking about this and I have said almost exactly the same thing about visiting them if need be!

I did consider Fasthosts for dedicated server hosting briefly, but their prices do not compare favourably when you consider the specification they are offering. We currently have a few sites hosted with them though, using shared servers. They went through a very unreliable patch a while back - some of which was BT's fault, as it goes. Lately they have seemed better. I do like their CP.

What do you know of them that prompts you to suggest dropping them from the list?

Originally posted by richy
gordon we mean uk based servers at us bandwidth prices. thats not going to happen for a very long time unfortunately.

rmartin summed it up perfectly in his last post.

http://www.interhouse.redbus.com/ENG/ seem a great company but i have limited experience, if you remove donhost and fasthosts and all their their resellers from the uk scene then your left with a far better selection. uk2 might also need to be chucked and ghoulnet but this is only from what ive been told not experienced. by default remove any unlimited hosts:)
most of the traditional telehouse \ docklands companies that are of a decent size should be good for you.
the only reason i buy us is price. i certainly wouldnt buy from the majority of sub 1.50 bucks a gig providers on the strength of their support. all to often i hear you get what you pay for and what do you expect at that price.
i guess i like uk also because i can threaten to visit em:)

You certainly won't find Cogent pricing in the UK, however it isn't _that_ far behind the US in terms of bandwidth pricing. I have seen prices well below the £1.50 per Gb mark, you just have to dig deeper to get quotes.

Thats right Matt
I am not allowed to say what we pay but we don't pay a lot, and we have 2 lines with BGP routing etc and its really quite reliable.

Gordon

It seems to me that the UK are stuck in a bit of a no win situation. Our prices are higher because costs are higher, however if we charge low prices and cut our profit margins people are suspicious and many blacklist your company because they assume low prices means low quality service when they havent even given you a chance.
I originally signed up with donhost as many of you know and i dont normally stick up for them, however as annoying as the 'unlimited' companies are they do not offer unlimited bandwidth so in a way it is unlimited space as long as you dont go over your bandwidth allowance............i dont know what to think anymore there are so many opposing views its hard to get the real facts sometimes.
I just think UK hosts should be given a break we do our best with what resources we have.

:) i meant 1.50 bucks not pounds. 1,50 isnt too bad for uk based. personally i feel the us is better to establish a datacentre because of the ease with which you can get multiple 'brands' of fiber into your dc and the low prices.
as for fasthosts its quite simple i like to know the rules im playing by, unlimited doesnt exist. if they say capped at this, or your on a Xmbps link with this level of contention or you have X GBs per month then fine, but saying unlimited and then having a get out cause doesnt allow you to feel secure in offering a service, how do you explain to your customers after 6 months you found out unlimited wasnt that, that you hit the glass ceiling etc.
i know some people are bound by nda's etc so i wont ask prices, but what companies can people reccomend in the uk for leased lines etc. on both service and price. any experiences with demon , bt, c and w etc?

Originally posted by tazd9t9
Hi all I know that hosting is generally more expensive in the UK because of poor internet/phone line infrastructure and high bandwidth costs but how many of you out there are based in the UK?

www.cyberstrider.net

and part of it's portfolio:

www.10quid.co.uk

www.cybes.net

www.dedi-serv.net

www.coloraq.net


and a second company

www.aexiomus.net

I am involved with both.

:-)

Originally posted by voxtreme-matt

You certainly won't find Cogent pricing in the UK, however it isn't _that_ far behind the US in terms of bandwidth pricing. I have seen prices well below the £1.50 per Gb mark, you just have to dig deeper to get quotes.

You mean the below £1.10/GB/month pricing as through www.aexiomus.net? The more you buy the cheaper it gets, but generally speaking, £350/month gets 1Mb/s of multihomed bandwidth.

thus, 350/16/20 = £1.09 per GB/month data transfer

lol i know its nagging but that aint burstable but for uk bw thats cool. its getting there. apparently c&w are workin with a company thats developing a robot that cables sewers, so now you can say without fear of contradition their service is s*** :) hopefully thats gonna result in more cheaper bw quickly laid in areas that before required roadworks etc.

Originally posted by richy
lol i know its nagging but that aint burstable but for uk bw thats cool. its getting there. apparently c&w are workin with a company thats developing a robot that cables sewers, so now you can say without fear of contradition their service is s*** :) hopefully thats gonna result in more cheaper bw quickly laid in areas that before required roadworks etc.

It is bustable - that os if you were commenting to my posting.

As for C&W - I would personally stay away from them no matter what they do - even if they give real cheap bandwidth - the companies they have bought out in the past - good companies such as INS - they have screwed up and given a real bad name to. Unreliable, constantly down networks is what they run. :-/

UK Hosts rock

Our UK and US prices are identical apart from the VAT

Why base your servers in the UK then - then VAT is not an issue?

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
[B]

Why base your servers in the UK then - then VAT is not an issue?


If the company is registered in the UK then you have to register for VAT if your turnover is over £56,000 per year.
This is regardless of place of supply.


However, if you are mainly an exporter (as we are) you will probably be able to reclaim more than you hand over in VAT to Customs and Excise.
I this is the case then they force an exemption on you.
This is almost the position we are in.
Its likely that we will have a VAT number but be unable to reclaim VAT on UK purchases.
We need to wait until the next quarter is over and see what happens.
Meanwhile I am investing in UK hardaware while I can get the VAT back :)

Its all very complicated.


Gordon

...the UK then you have to register for VAT if your turnover is over £56,000 per year.

Sure

This is regardless of place of supply.

Are you sure about that? Can you not ardue if your server is in the US then your "place of business" is in the US also?

My interest is this, BTW. We are a marketing and design outfit that has clients running of a reseller account. We are evaluating beefing hosting up right now. I asked my accountant this same question only yesterday. He thought you COULD argue that.

However, if you are mainly an exporter (as we are) you will probably be able to reclaim more than you hand over in VAT to Customs and Excise.

By exporter do you mean: server in the UK, clients non UK?



Well, I guess there are many ways to skin your cat :) Perhaps you've come to this conclusion already: have you thought about running a US-registered company? I suppose this only becomes an issue if you have lots of small biz accounts where VAT reclaim is v important.

[quote]Its all very complicated.

You bet :( . They like it that way. I'm sure Kafka is alive and well and a civil servant :)

OK
Its mainly to do with whether you source supplies in the UK.
When we didn't there was no rush to VAT register because wed could not have reclaimed anything and we would have had to charge VAT.
Once we started paying more VAT there was more of a need to register.

We actually run 2 seperate companies.
One for EU customers and one for non EU customers with seperate merchant accounts.
Our order system works out who is vat-able and who isn't and feeds the money into thte correct merchant acounts and correct company.

There is no advantage in running a US comapny as far as I can see unless you were intending to pay suppliers fromn there to avoid UK corporation tax but if you have a good accountant you should noit be paying corporation tax anyway.
Just make sure you have no profit at the end of the year by prepaying suppliers or buying those extra servers you need a month early.


One of the things that really annoys me about running a business here is the high taxation on all the hard work you have to do.
For example, I need £15,000 out of the business but although the business has the cash I need to pay 40% tax on the 15,000 to receive it.
When I think how hard I have worked to make that money......
So far the best I can come up with is selling my car to the company for £6000 because that would not be taxable but then I woul dhave to pay tax on having a company car so its all swings and roundabouts.
Sometimes I wonder if its actually worth running a business as there is so little personal benefit cash wise.

Gordon

We're a UK Based hosting company.

and dont charge any VAT to anyone - UK or not !

Originally posted by sysweb
We're a UK Based hosting company.
and dont charge any VAT to anyone - UK or not !

And that is because your turnover is less than £54,000 per year. If you did it would be your legal obligation to register for VAT and charge it (either explicitly in your prices or implicitly)

In addition, although you pay your suppliers the VAT, you are unable to claim it back - hence your pricing to your end consumers to whom you do not charge VAT will have taken your higher costs into account.

Originally posted by AotI


And that is because your turnover is less than £54,000 per year. If you did it would be your legal obligation to register for VAT and charge it (either explicitly in your prices or implicitly)

In addition, although you pay your suppliers the VAT, you are unable to claim it back - hence your pricing to your end consumers to whom you do not charge VAT will have taken your higher costs into account.

Ture............

This year we dont think we will turn over 54k, but next year it should be a problem for us.......given current growth. :D

The point on another post about 40% tax - if you're a Limited company with nominal shares - could you not opt to not draw a wage but to pay a share devidend ??? - the company would still need to pay some tax - but I dont think its anywhere near 40%.....

Originally posted by sysweb

Ture............
This year we dont think we will turn over 54k, but next year it should be a problem for us.......given current growth. :D


And then you get to the worst bit...

You will then need to think about what to do with your pricing - raise them or keep them the same (and make less of a profit for yourselves)


The point on another post about 40% tax - if you're a Limited company with nominal shares - could you not opt to not draw a wage but to pay a share devidend ??? - the company would still need to pay some tax - but I dont think its anywhere near 40%.....

That depends on how the company is structured and IR35 etc comes into it. It sn't as easy to take money from a Ltd company as it is with a sole trade business.

Originally posted by AotI


That depends on how the company is structured and IR35 etc comes into it. It sn't as easy to take money from a Ltd company as it is with a sole trade business.

Thats correct.

As a company director I pay myself about £4500 per year which I pay tax and national insurance on.
Everything above this is classed as Directors Renumeration by share dividend.
This is liable to income tax but not national insurance.

Any money transferred to me as an individual from the company is liable to personal income tax at 40%.

Corporation tax is levied on company profits at the end of its tax year (which is not the same as the fiscal year)
Ours is not till august but I will be ensuring we have no profits to be taxed on.

We used to not charge VAT but it got to the stage that tax avoidance was more time consuming and expensive than registering.
Plus, we are way past the vat registration limit and would have ended up being investigated anyway. It just wasn't worth the effort.

If you sell services outside the EU (.i.e. without VAT) then you should consider setting up two sets of accounts to keep them seperate otherwise the paperwork is a nightmare with all those monthly payments to allocate and aggregate.

Gordon