I realize that the debate on overselling is one that will continue until the end of time, so I don't want to start a new debate on the concept of overselling. Rather, I'd like to ask for your perception as a customer when you see the company you will do business with, proudly state "Overselling Allowed."

Please approach this from the following avenue:
You want to buy a reseller account, and the company offering reseller plans emphasizes "Overselling Allowed." I tried to put myself in the shoes of various resellers as I thought about this.

A: I can oversell, and make lots of $$ for spending little $$

B: If the host is telling me it is OK to oversell, mayhap they are overselling their reseller accounts? So from one end to the other, everything on the box is going to crawl/etc etc. (put in your favorite reason against overselling)

Realizing that Overselling can mean many things to many people, I tend to be in Group B. Thus, I always avoid companies that promote Overselling.

Well, before I go to deep into this topic, I'd like to hear from some of you. As I said, everyone has an opinion on overselling, so what I'm interested in is simply hearing from people who are resellers and their views as to signing up with a company that promotes Overselling.

Disclaimer: English isn't my native tongue, so I hope the main point of this thread is understood.

Cheers,

If I was a reseller I would see it as a potential problem which could affect service to my own customers since overselling leads to high memory usage, higher server loads, and many of those things. Generally, cheaper hosts are used for fraudalent purposes more than high-end hosts in my experience.

Overselling isn't simply about inflating profit margins on little investment (though it's easy to look at it that way). Most of the time overselling *is* abused by both the reseller hosting company AND the clients (which just compounds the problems)

However, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, overselling is MOST abused by those large hosting companies that crowd all the hosting directories on the internet that boast of 60GB of website and a million gigabytes of data transfer (usually as a method of marketing). They are the real culprits.

Tiny hosts have to yank up their prices to stay as competitive as possible. However, these are the same hosts that decide to stop loading up on a server as a method of protecting their customer base (they can't afford to lose 'em).

Roj

Originally posted by WebInsanity
If I was a reseller I would see it as a potential problem which could affect service to my own customers since overselling leads to high memory usage, higher server loads, and many of those things.
Bingo, we have a winner. :)

NO to overselling!!!

Help your customer to enjoy fast access...

If your company allows overselling, You should have a policy in place that covers HOW MUCH they are allowed to oversell such as a percentage. We allow 10% anything over that incurs overage fees and it's backed by a policy that covers this.

If your company does not have a policy regarding overselling and what percentage your clients are allowed to oversell, I see a disaster waiting to happen.

My 2 cents...

After 1.5 years in the hosting (still pretty much a hobby though) I only wish if people on WHT would say what they mean, practice what they preach... I guess you know what I mean. :)

Well now, here's a question for you, "What, exactly, do you mean by overselling?"

You see, overselling (like bandwidth) is a term that is used incorrectly, not only by Clients but also by lots of Web Hosters. The correct term would be "Allocated" or "Actual Use" method. I made a post awhile back, explaning the two terms (http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2085239#post2085239) and to help people better understand what they mean. It is always advisable when doing business, to use correct terms.

As to which method is best, that is really irrelevant compared to how a Hoster manages their Server(s). From a Reseller prespective though, seeing as we provide the "Actual Use" method, I know our Resellers appreciate the fact that they can be competive and still remain profitable.

There is also the fact that some Hosters "say" they do not oversell their Servers when in fact they do. It's easy to say on a Web page that they do not oversell, but nothing stops them from putting more Clients on a Server than there is room for. As there is no way for Clients to actually know how many accounts are on a Server, the best yardstick to use -- to judge if you have a good Hoster -- is by how well their Servers operate.

Server is as Server does, you know. :D


And my answer to the poll: It's a non-issue for me.

There is a lot more to doing good business and providing excellent Service than whether or not the Allocated or Actual Use method is used.

The main problem with allowing unlimited overselling is that at some point someone is going to take you up on it and sell 500 web sites that are promised 1000 meg of space each. Stack those on a server with 20 - 40 other resellers all offering more than they have and soon you have a server with 2000 - 3000 accounts on it and it becomes unstable and crashes.

Now you can say well they are an idiot for selling that much but hey you as the host told them they could and they could simply upgrade when they used their space up but unless you have 500 gig worth of free disk space in that server and you think that PIV2.4 can push that much then you have lied and mislead the clients and their clients.

Sorry I personally think is wrong no matter what spin you put on it to allow oversell of disk space. Bandwidth you can make an argument for, disk space there is no way to justify.

And as for the Actual usage term I prefer to say that not oversold is allowing the reseller to use the actual space they purchased because they can and not have to upgrade, they can use every bit of space they paid for and not have to worry the sever will be out of space when they need to use it all or use as much as they have really sold.

When a host says "Overselling Allowed" for reseller account plans, it probably is referring to CPanel's feature. If you're allocated 2GB space and 20GB bandwidth, you can assign your sub-accounts 3GB space and 30GB bandwidth. If needed, you can upgrade your plan to meet the needs of your clients if they increase their usage. However, you cannot exceed your reseller account limit most likely - if you clients try to use 25GB bandwidth, they won't be able to since you only have 20GB to give them.

Personally, I refuse to oversell space. HDs are so cheap that you don't need to oversell. Might as well spend the extra money & stay safe. Overselling bandwidth is ok - if my server has 500GB bandwidth & I sell 600GB worth, that's ok because my server won't be shut off after 500GB - I'd just pay more.

I don't actually find anything wrong with smart overselling, as long as the host can maintain a high quality of service & can provide what they advertised.

- Matt

After 1.5 years in the hosting (still pretty much a hobby though) I only wish if people on WHT would say what they mean, practice what they preach... I guess you know what I mean.

I think there are many companies that practice what they preach - however, it is always tempting to start offering the "big" plans that attract the typical WHT visitor.

However, those that have stuck by their guns, have attained consistent, steady growth, with a favourable profile of clientelle. If you do not practise overselling, you will attract knowledgable clients that structure their business in a similar manner. Fewer of these customers exist - however, running, owning and growing a hosting business is much more enjoyable this way.

My $0.02

Originally posted by Techark
The main problem with allowing unlimited overselling is that at some point someone is going to take you up on it and sell 500 web sites that are promised 1000 meg of space each . . .
Aye, so true. :eek3:

If reseller suppliers want to offer their clients the ability to oversell, then at least cap them with a domain number limit. That's one of the best things we did, with httpme, about 18mths back. :)

That will keep away the kiddy hosts thinking they can cram 500 domains in their $35/mth reseller account, so they can make some pocket money. :rolleyes:

Did I read that last post correctly?

httpme.com offered overselling (or provided the Actual Use method) to their Resellers but capped the number of accounts that could be setup?

Originally posted by Website Rob
Did I read that last post correctly?

httpme.com offered overselling (or provided the Actual Use method) to their Resellers but capped the number of accounts that could be setup?
Yep. :)

Yeap capping of domains is very important to prevent over selling. Let me assure you that are ppl who wouldn't think a second thought about cramming 500 domains into a $35 package, they would cram 1000 if they can manage it!. For us we cap per domain, as well as email and web space limits.

Our plans are based on actual usage as well which does mean resellers can oversell if they wish to.
We do charge however for customers accounts above a defined limit and we don't oversell our reseller packages

The best thing about Hsphere is that a reseller is not on any single server, they can be spanned over multiple servers and hence the problem where say 25 resellers on a single server can oversell and cause performance issues does not really exists on HSphere clusters. We put only a certain number of end-user accounts per server and we determine which server each new end-user account of a reseller goes to.

I see nothing wrong in a reseller that prices sensibly (where they are profitable without overselling) to go ahead and boost their profits further and sell unused space and bandwidth. As their end-users begin using more space and the reseller hits his limits, he could upgrade to the next package. At least in our setup, that would never affect server performance as reseller end-user accounts are scaled on multiple servers.

But I am totally against resellers and hosting firms pricing at levels that are not profitable and sustainable without overselling.

Better then capping the domain name number would be fixing the drive space (not allowing overselling of drive space). And charging for bandwidth overages (above 1x). That way your clients use what they paid for BUT they can sell more then they have - thus making them more competitive. And you know how important it is to keep your costumers happy :)

Originally posted by Yash (JodoHost)
The best thing about Hsphere is that a reseller is not on any single server, they can be spanned over multiple servers and hence the problem where say 25 resellers on a single server can oversell and cause performance issues does not really exists on HSphere clusters. We put only a certain number of end-user accounts per server and we determine which server each new end-user account of a reseller goes to.

I couldnt have said this better myself about Hsphere.