I'm not quite sure where this goes, but this seemed like the best forum for it.

I made a post in the Design and Templates Offers forum, requesting somebody to help do some CSS work for my site. I got a few offers from people, and finally decided on one of them.

One of the people that contacted me was a representative from Vorcate, who sent me a message on AIM. This morning I told him I went with somebody else, and this guy kept explaining to me how I was wrong about how I felt in my decision.

He wouldn't give up, and finally I got fed up with it all and told him not to message me anymore. He said he'd check back in with me in a few days. I told him not to...he said he'd add me to their database. I told him not to add me, and he said I was already added. Anyway, last time I checked, when somebody asks you not to send them any more messages, and they do, it's harassment.

Unfortunately I don't have any of the chat logs anymore...when I deleted him from my list, the logs went with it. I don't think I've ever gone to a forum to post about a company...but this guy really just pissed me off. If you have a tough time being rude to people and just blowing them off, I would advise against staying away from Vorcate - they won't take no for an answer.

Yeah, it's definitely not cool to harass someone who has already made up their mind with another company. Vorcate should realize this only makes the client feel more strongly about their choice and things like this post could really put a dent in your reputation. Thanks for bringing this to our attention :)

Avoid Vorcate at all costs, they most definately lack ethics.

I am on my way to the dentist but I will post details when I return.

Dave

The sad thing is I didn't even just jump right on this. I told the guy to back off, cause I had no problem making a post here and over at SitePoint. And he persisted... This just really frustrated me. Gotta not let it affect the rest of my day though :)

I will squeeze in what I can before I have to run.

A couple of months back I requested bids for a new logo, one that responded was member "VorcateProjects". We discussed my needs and I was told the bid would be given as soon as someone from management comes in. 2 days later I had not rec'd a response so I sent a pm and was soon given a price for the work. Being that they "forgot" to get back with me on a price red flags were sent up making me question if they would actually get the work done once they got the money.

Now that I had a bid, it was time to do my due diligence and research the company. I saw on one of the freelance sites where they had bid some SEO work. They were offering to submit the requesting site to over 1 million search engines, can you say SCAM.

I replied in PM "I saw where Jeff submitted a bid to do SEO for somebody, he stated that besides the on page SEO, the company will submit the site to 1,000,000 search engines.

You tell me, do you consider that as ethical?"

I was told absolutely that is ethical. I dont know about anybody else but taking advantage of people that may not be too versed in SEO is wrong. Taking money for a service that cannot be provided (there is not 1 million search engines in existance) is criminal.

After being scolded for not knowing how to do research, I decided to lay it on the line, show me a list of the 1 million search engines that you submit too. After all, if a customer is to pay them to do a job they should be able to answer to what exactly they are going to do.

They proceeded to give me a list of a few hundred freeforall pages, not search engines but freeforall pages, in other words spam houses. When I replied sating that they have not sent a list of search engines but FFA pages and there certainly was not 1 million, well I was told that the rest are secret and cannot be released lmao.

In the next post I will post the list of 1 million search engines ;)

Dave

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Dave B , your posts simply crack me up sometimes. :D

Originally posted by Dave B

In the next post I will post the list of 1 million search engines ;)


Not bad, around 1600 total there with at least 1100 of them being FFA. :o

Hey guys,

Why not contact supeviros or managers within a company when there is a problem instead of dropping to an alltime low and posting negative things about a company. You are using one persons mistakes and persistencies to develop a negative image for our company. Although I could careless about posts in a forum, it's still very immature and unprofessional. Next time, ask to speak to someone of rank, and I'm sure things will go the way you want.

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

Originally posted by vorcate
Hey guys,

Why not contact supeviros or managers within a company when there is a problem instead of dropping to an alltime low and posting negative things about a company. You are using one persons mistakes and persistencies to develop a negative image for our company. Although I could careless about posts in a forum, it's still very immature and unprofessional. Next time, ask to speak to someone of rank, and I'm sure things will go the way you want.

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

For someone that doesn't care about forum posts, you sure do seem a tad defensive.

I think the incessant harassment and usage of Free For All sites instead of advertised search engines is dropping to an all-time low, not posting about a bad experience you had with a company.

Cool

Ok Jeff, how ethical is it that you claim to submit a site to over 1 million search engines, when in fact there is not 1 million search engines.

It is sweet of you to post your little rant, but as we say in south Texas grow some huevos and reply to the actual post with some facts as to why all the statements against your company are false.

Dave

hmmm that can't be good business

Dave,

I don't deal with forums nor do I reply so not sure what you're talking about. All in all, I'm not sure how this all got started, but its not important. Thanks!

I would say it's extremely important. Your company spreads lies and harasses potential clients. If that's not illegal, I don't know what is.

John,

Thanks for your concerns. Unfortunately, I don't care about your opinions in a forum. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but my company doesn't harrass customers or potentials. I think you may have had a run in with the wrong person from our company, but I can assure you nobody else is like that. I appreciate your remarks though. Have a safe and happy holidays!

Originally posted by vorcate
Hey guys,

Why not contact supeviros or managers within a company when there is a problem instead of dropping to an alltime low and posting negative things about a company. You are using one persons mistakes and persistencies to develop a negative image for our company. Although I could careless about posts in a forum, it's still very immature and unprofessional. Next time, ask to speak to someone of rank, and I'm sure things will go the way you want.

Whomever I talked with this morning (VorcateProjects, who I assume to be you), is a representative of the company. So if the one person I talk to gives me a hard time, of course I'm going to develop a negative image of the company. What else do you expect?

Bottom line, I don't care for your company at all, and didn't want to deal with them. From my limited experience with you guys, it would be a big hassle, and wouldn't provide me with any value.

I came here to post my experience. While my interactions may not be the norm for you guys, it was still my experience. I'm just letting people know what happened with me. They can make an objective decision about you guys on their own.

I will not post my Chat Logs, unless I feel it is indeed necessary. First of all, he did indeed, designed me a free ad. Nothing wrong with that. But what he didn't even ask, was permission to use my Copyrighted logo. Therefore, he is breaking the law.

Also I just wanted to give everyone a heads up, that there "SEO" is changing keywords around, to make them look pretty. But in fact he even denied that Google doesn't "see" keywords. His reply was "Do you believe everything on the Internet" when There is over 10000 sites saying Google doesn't do keywords.

Also he says ALL search engines Are being controlled by "Advertising Companies" so you can get the #1 listing from This "advertising company" for $2 or something along that line per click.

My advice, stay away...

pergesu,

Absolutely. I'd be the same way and no, VorcateProjects is not me. He is a sales rep. I am the owner of the company. We do not intend on delivering low quality and non-dependable services to anyone by any means. I apologize for the negative experience you encountered, and if there is anything else we can do for you, please feel free to let me know. Have a nice holiday!

[i]Originally posted by vorcate

VorcateProjects is not me. [/B]

I have never acutally met you, I believe your name is Jeff? Mine was also through VorcateProjects on AIM. Also Happy Holidays to you too.

vorcate, perception is everything. If you're allowing this person to publicly represent your company and you do not take immediate, public action to rectify his errors, the responsibility and blame falls directly on you as the owner and your company as a whole. It may not be fair, IMHO it is very fair, but regardless, it is reality.

You can ask people to deal with you privately, but if your company is grossly misrepresenting its services, giving customer service some feel is poor and offering services which it cannot provide, if people won't deal with you privately, you're either going to have to ignore the chatter, which will go on with or without you, or address it directly...and publicly.

A lot of people are independently saying "stay away for Vorcate." Give them a reason why they should change their opinions. Hint: "I don't know what my sales people are selling" is not how this is done. It makes you look dishonest and like a poor manager. I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying the opinions of these people matter to me and to others, and right now, that perception is very, very bad, and there's nothing positive on which to judge presented by your representative or you.

the_pm,

Our reputation is not affected one biut by negative feedback in a forum. If you took a look at our client testimonials, nobody has anything negative to say about us. Could have been bad timing for someone to ask about a job. But we have a very high and respected reputation in the design industry.

If you took a look at our client testimonials, nobody has anything negative to say about us.
Really? Imagine that.

Oddly enough, this thread contains a number of testimonials that are not filtered and posted on your site, and they're all negative. Hmm...

Search Engine Submissions
Submit your website to 1,000,000 search engines world wide to increase traffic and popularity.
Hmm...I can see why you avoid the issue with blanket statements and zero responsibility. Seems your salesperson was simply pushing the company line, as requested. *shrugs* The quote above from your site speaks for itself. You say this is what you do, this thread has reactions to that. I guess people will make up their own minds from here.

Should this statement disappear from your site, I'm sure the reaction will be even swifter and more decisive. "See, they knew they were scamming people," or something to that effect. Unless you can tell us more about these 1 million search engines.

Still waiting for an answer.

You yourself made a bid in which you promised a potential client that you would submit his site to over 1 million search engines. Please tell me how this is accomplished since there is not 1 million search engines.

As far as a good reputation, to the person that does not have time to check you out maybe.

Dave

Well considering a couple of unmentioned users are making false posts while we have never even been on contact with them is a little funny I would say. But oh well. WHT is a poor source for negative feedback, and if someone has something to say, they could always forward it to us direct instead of hiding it in a forum lol. No worries, no damage done. Every client we've worked with and showcased work for has given testimonials so you shouldn't make assumptions and not know what you're talking about. Do you work here? No. So don't jump on the band wagon as the "big wig" of a forum.

and the answer to the question is?????

If you're talking to me, there's a difference between a bunch of people rallying behind one person who's had a bad experience, and a string of unhappy clients posting about their experiences or items they've observed to be false. All I've tried to do is show you that addressing them is the only course of action you have to alleviate the negativity. If you don't care about it, that's your choice too. You appear to care, based on your interest in this thread, but that's neither here nor there.

The reason this is an appropriate forum to air these grievances is because the initial client engagement came about on WHT as well. I find it interesting that you don't care about these forums, yet you have a sales representative scouring them for work. Your actions and words say two entirely different things. These are readily apparent observations - the fact that a number of complaint come with them merely lend credence to them.

Now, about those million search engines...

Originally posted by vorcate
Well considering a couple of unmentioned users are making false posts while we have never even been on contact with them WHT is a poor source for negative feedback

Not sure if your referring to me also. I have made direct contact to VorcateProjects via AIM. As far as WHT not a source. Just look at the statistics, in my opinion WHT will dramitcally hurt your business dramitcally just look at how many views this thread has already gotten and what about this thread?:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=342994&highlight=Vorcate

These threads are both very similar. I suggest you start apologizing or fixing your mistakes. Otherwise, your company will be hurting.

As far as FFA you will get removed from Search Engines if they find out. So why are you doing this to your "clients"?

Guys. None of you are our clients, and although you were potentials, doesn’t give you the right to act as if you were clients of ours and we mistreated you. I apologize to everyone for the experiences you may have had.

<<Fluff removed>> These forums are simply for relief of anger and situations, and that's fine. I apologize for your negative experience with VBS, but can assure you that we don't do business that way. As for the 1 million search engines, we made a mistake. The company we were working with (BlastEngine, Inc.) openly advertised this as an auto-submission to 1 million search engines, and I was not aware that they were FFA sites until we started receiving e-mails from them all. So I apologize again in that regards, and to Dave B, for creating a false image and array of services on our behalf.

I wish you all the best of luck, and would hope that in the future, you would let this problem or problems blow by, and deal with me directly. You may contact me via AIM at VorcatePresident or via e-mail at jeff@vorcate.com. I have no problems discussing your experiences or allowing you to relief stress and feelings to me directly, but the forums are not the place to address this. Please use one of the above methods of contact to pursue any further problems to me directly. Thanks guys, for your opinions and your comments, and I look forward to hearing from some of you soon.

Have a Safe and Happy Holidays!

<<Signature to be setup in your profile>>

The company we were working with (BlastEngine, Inc.) openly advertised this as an auto-submission to 1 million search engines, and I was not aware that they were FFA sites until we started receiving e-mails from them all.

So you really thought there are over 1 million search engines? Maybe you should learn the business before entering into it. Of course this is assuming that you did not know it was BS. Given your track record of site stealing and who knows what else, I am not ready to make this assumption.

I also wanted to state that you should ease up on your whining in regards to people busting you on WHT. You claim that it will not hurt your business (lol), then quit whining about it and let us talk about your scams amongst ourselves.

Now to everybody else. If you are considering using this kid, he has not stopped using the SE submitter and is actually to this day still advertising he will submit to 1 miliion search engines. If you have any sense whatsoever you will :gone:

Dave

<<< Dave hangs head in shame, begging for forgiveness and a reprive of the stoning which he has brought unto himself >>>


I love it :stickout:

I screwed up many months ago, I accepted the responsibility and made the best of it. A very strange concept to many in this industry.

Sorry I wasn't here many months ago. Care to tell or point me in the thread?

Originally posted by immortal9
Sorry I wasn't here many months ago. Care to tell or point me in the thread?
FWIW, signature violations are generally small ones, such as linking more than twice or using too many smilies. I don't know what the issue was with Dave B's signature, but these types of things are seldomly discussed in threads, and generally insignificant even when they are.

I wouldn't give it much thought :)

That's what I thought, but the way he answered it was something besides a sig viloation.

too many links, as a forum admin I should have known better and read the rules. Consider it a self imposed scarlet letter. ;)

Dave

Originally posted by vorcate
I wish you all the best of luck, and would hope that in the future, you would let this problem or problems blow by, and deal with me directly. You may contact me via AIM at VorcatePresident or via e-mail at jeff@vorcate.com. I have no problems discussing your experiences or allowing you to relief stress and feelings to me directly, but the forums are not the place to address this.

It must be a bummer when a bunch of strangers try to hold you accountable for your outrageous claims, like the still-unanswered question about the number of "search engines" you submit your customers' sites to. You just joined and only have a dozen posts, so perhaps you aren't aware that these forums are exactly the place to address these issues. What we don't do, is let this sort of thing "blow by". When that happens, the community has failed. Some claims, like submitting to a million search engines, must be addressed by the company making them, in public.

For someone who isn't interested in forums, you sure post to them an awful lot. This post sure is interesting:

http://www.webdesignforums.net/showpost.php?p=151222&postcount=1

Darn that public Internet! Let me get this straight, your web marketing company outsourced its initial (ripped) corporate website to Argentina, and despite being experts in web promotion must ask for help attracting clients? This would not look good to anyone researching your company online, despite the low regard you have for the people posting here. In fact, that disdain for the community sure comes across loud and clear, but I don't think this would convince anybody to contract for your services. But don't take my advice, you're the expert on getting people to sign up.

Originally posted by vorcate
Our reputation is not affected one biut by negative feedback in a forum. If you took a look at our client testimonials, nobody has anything negative to say about us. Could have been bad timing for someone to ask about a job. But we have a very high and respected reputation in the design industry.

You're right! One's reputation is built based on how one responds to negative feedback. Don't you think you're taking on airs, as you've only been in business for three months with under 10 clients? Also, as the_pm pointed out, not a single testimonial about your company exists except on your own website. But wait -- some of those sites in your portfolio were done by another company, "evocreations.com". Oh, that's you!

All the WHT community is after is a little honesty from the companies we contract or partner with. We are also interested in exposing the companies who utilize dishonest business practices. You don't have any reputation in the design industry, you're going to have to earn one like the rest of us, and you're not off to a very good start. When someone has a problem with your company, deal with it -- don't point to all the happy customers as evidence that the person complaining must be nuts!

One dishonest practice that often raises the ire of WHTers are the solicited (or outright bogus) customer testimonials. I'm not saying you made up your testimonials, just that your customers must be easy to please. However, posting testimonials for your new company which resulted from work done by the old company, without indicating that this is the situation, is considered disingenuous by many. Who did the work, and are they still with you? Or is it one of your new designers with the "secret" portfolio of Fortune 500 companies?

Regardless, it isn't the testimonials that make your reputation as a company, it's the quality of the work. To that end, let's use www.sitepier.com as an example. It looks like everything was very active during the design phase, but once the site was "up" all work appears to have ceased. Surely, 9 months (since the last update) is long enough to catch and correct "Fantstico" and other obvious spelling errors. Also, on the "products" page, the table's categories are wrong. Surely the "Price per Month" isn't "300MB"? This leads to confusion as to whether the next line refers to "Unlimited" bandwidth, or email accounts? HUGE distinction, and obviously an easy-to-please client! :rolleyes:

Speaking as a web design client, I would not have paid (or taken delivery) until those blatant problems had been corrected, if this pushed delivery past the due date the developer would incur lateness penalties as per the contract. Speaking as an ex- web designer, I'd never have attempted to deliver a site without at least spellchecking it first.

I'd be willing to take those testimonials at face value, but for one problem. At the bottom of your homepage, it says "Proud Members of:" and lists three outfits. One, sbstyleboost, yields zero Google hits so I don't know what that is. The other two are both owned by ivaluehost.net. How does one get to be a "member" of Nolimit Media? There is no information about that on the website. In fact, there's no information on the website! It's just as secret as your designers' portfolios, or your list of a million search engines.

Google the name "Mark Kitzmiller". A fine netizen, athlete and all-around good guy, somehow I doubt he works for (or has ever even heard of) ivaluehost. This doesn't stop him from recommending the same targeted-traffic company, once as an employee of tonhosting.com and again as an employee of guruwebhost.com, which are both owned by ivaluehost. Oh, that targeted-traffic company he recommends? Also owned by Han Ton / ivaluehost! Now that's sleazy. So, you're a proud member of their portfolio of companies, Jeff? Do you see how "guilt by association" works? I can't do anything about the impression your association with them gives me regarding your customer testimonials, even though I'm aware it isn't fair to you. ;)

But then again, maybe it is fair. One of their tactics is the creation of a dozen "templates" for their hosting operation. The only feedback I could find about any of their companies, except for the testimonials on their own sites, was negative. What I found shocking, was the tendency of the people behind these companies to post here on WHT in threads about their companies, without revealing their association with said company. This post is long enough, so I won't link the specific posts, but there's ample evidence of shenanigans on WHT designed to obfuscate the number of unhappy customers of (ultimately) one company.

See, if one searches for ivaluehost.net, how is one to know that those comments also apply to guruwebhost.com? Or for that matter, that the guruwebhost.com rep so generously helping out in an ivaluehost.net thread owns both companies? Without researching the WHOIS data, this information is not available to potential customers. That new webhost they think they're an original customer of, may have been scamming people for years under several different names. So, what's up with evocreations / vorcate?

So, when I see that vorcate.com is a Proud Member of Nolimit Media, I can't help but wonder if you're engaged in the same kinds of deceptive activities. When you refuse even to acknowledge the grossly misleading claim about your search-engine count, vorcate, you're damaging your own reputation. The question I'm asking you, is what exactly does "Proud Member of" mean? What is your relationship with the following (incomplete list of) companies, who all claim to be "partners" yet are in reality owned by the same outfit?

ivaluehost.net
nolimitmedia.com
guruwebhost.com
tonhosting.com
upstreamhost.com
itrafficboost.com
ifreetraffic.com
traffickingpin.com
powerfulscripts.com
graphicscripts.com
guruwebinc.com
worldwideforums.com
coolestdesigns.com
igraphicdesigns.com
webmasterscripts.org
dtwebhost.com
ibestsites.com
finestzone.com
sitehelpforums.com

The above companies have at one time or another been represented on WHT by the following usernames, in many cases against WHT rules even if they aren't all the same person or two:

BigJ406
Jake330
WebSpy330 (safe to say anything ending in 330, I saw others, try that search on vb though)
highroller (maybe... maybe just a coincidence, hard to tell from one post)
Stacy75
GuruWebhost
cfhirolla
igraphic

If that last (incomplete) list is more than two people, I'll **** a brick.

IMHO, TemplateMonster should re-evaluate their partnership with ivaluehost.net.

Originally posted by vorcate
Absolutely. I'd be the same way and no, VorcateProjects is not me. He is a sales rep. I am the owner of the company. We do not intend on delivering low quality and non-dependable services to anyone by any means. I apologize for the negative experience you encountered, and if there is anything else we can do for you, please feel free to let me know. Have a nice holiday!

Huh. If that's the case, why is it that VorcateProjects just pm'd me threatening a libel lawsuit?

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=2641119#post2641119

Bring it on. You still haven't addressed the fact that you're lying about a million search engines, perhaps you should address that before you accuse me of making anything up. I will not discuss this further in private, if you wish to accuse me of something, either make it public or sue me.

PM from VorcateProjects
If you are referring to SitePier, the project start date was 10/31/2004.
And you did not answer my question about thehe testimonials from some old company that you obviously made up to the new company. I would appreciate it if before you spoke you had a clue to as what you were talking about and not my false accusations. Please be advised that making false accusations and spreading libel could lead to further problems.

Why should I answer your questions, when you haven't answered mine (or anyone else's)?

Why does the SitePier site say work was completed in April? There are no updates since April. I didn't "make up" evocreations.com, heck just do a WHOIS, it's registered to the same person as Vorcate.com. If you accuse me of "making that up" you'll be the one learning about libel laws.

This is a public forum about hosting public websites on the public Internet. If you refuse to cease and desist from lying to your customers, no amount of threatening PMs will make me get off your back. Why don't you answer the questions about the number of search engines you submit to, or your corporate connections? We're waiting.

Why won't you fess up that evocreations is your company, or explain what the relationship is?

http://www.elance.com/c/rfp/main/jobInfo.pl?jobId=9241613

evocreations1 Portfolio
Hagerstown, Maryland, US
US$200.00
No Recent


PreBid

Bidder Comments : Buyer: We have reviewed your project outline and can take care of all of the given assignments for you. We are a young, fresh, and creative design and marketing firm based in Hagerstown, Maryland, USA. Our portfolio may be viewed at evocreations.com. Our Graphics part of the portfolio is currently down for reconstruction. If there is anything we can do for you, please don't hesitate to ask us. Jeff Minnichbach Evo Creations
Time to deliver after bid is accepted: Within 1 Week • Bid ID: 9242648 • Bid Time: 02/05/04 00:04

Then, there's this:

http://www.getafreelancer.com/projects/6534.html

vorcate $ 5000 7 day(s) 10-07-2004 10:59
(No Feedback Yet)
Report
Hello Michael! My name is Jeff Minnichbach and I am the proud new owner of Vorcate Business Solutions at www.vorcate.com . I have just recently incorporated my business, and am already staffed with 6 team members in different parts of the United States. If you take a look at our website, you may see that we have a very small portfolio, and right now it's sitting at mid-range as far as quality goes. That is because I used websites I did years ago just to say that I did them. Now, we are progressing into levels 6 times higher than what was produced on our portfolio. Our new website will be launched towards the end of October, and boy is it neat! We just integrated a live support chat in it, along with an online help and support section, and a payment gateway allowing clients to make payments on their invoices directly through our website. We currently have two projects in the works right now with BlueFox Offshore, Inc. in Los Angelas, California and High Point Homes in Huntsville, Alabama, so we are rapidly making our way to the top. However, I would love to develop a strong and professional relationship with your company, and really help you get your name out there. We are a bunch of young, fresh, and creative designers, with the "eye." Anyone can make a website, but can they call themselves a true Artist? Probably not! We can. I really want to become a successful business owner, and have the drive and ambition to be one, but could really use the help from clients like yourselves. We have been doing online marketing studies for 8+ years now, and have it under out belt pretty well. In order to get you in top positions on the top search engines, we're going to have to use a PPC (Pay Per Click) Program which means you pay for every click a certain amount of money. You just tell us how many clicks you want and we will set it up and quote you. We will also submit your website to 1,000,000 search engines all across the world. We will optimize every required page in order to create a theme-based website; shorter list of keywords, but stronger and more friendly to search engines. As well, you can go to www.vorcate.com to get more info on our company. By choosing us, you will have the option to enter our live support chat rooms for help with any questions and/or comments, and an affordable price with an extremely high end marketing strategy. Not satisfied with it? We'll redo it until you are complete satisfied, no questions asked. Please provide us with goals for this marketing campaign, so we can discuss matters further and progress. Please contact me at (301) xxx-xxxx. I hope to hear from you very soon! Thanks for your time! Jeff Minnichbach Vorcate Business Solutions www.vorcate.com

:rolleyes: Obviously, I'm making all this up...

Jeff further gives himself away by wishing us all "best of luck" repeatedly in his posts. How real are these testimonials, I wonder?

http://web.archive.org/web/20040209114454/evocreations.com/testimonials.htm

600 views and counting. You could take advantage of this exposure to clean up and make a good impression.

BigBison,

That was crossing the line to post private bids on websites outside of this forum. I will notify them appropriate companies informing them of you doing this. That is against terms and policies. All testimonials are real, and you may contact every client asking about them. I will no longer be responding to your posts.

I haven't violated any agreements that I was a party to.

For the hundredth time this month, the Internet is public. If you don't want people researching you on Google, don't post stuff online.

If you think I've crossed some line, you're in for a harsh wakeup when (if) you consult an attorney about your position here. As it is, you'll find I don't scare easily. In fact, I don't scare period. Try addressing the issues I and others have raised instead of threatening me.

No longer be responding to my posts? What about the fact that you have yet to respond to my posts asking for explanations of your shady practices? Your responses in this thread confirm that you're not on the level.

Are you or are you not behind evocreations as well as vorcate? I have just started looking into something called "Projekt Hybrid".

LOL. Shady practices? Eric, why not move on with our life instead of staying stuck in a forum posting what you think is opinionated comments regarding "shady practies?" Oh boy. Adios!

Would you prefer "unethical"?

What else does one call standing by the claim of submitting customers' sites to over a million search engines? Do those clients who give you testimonials know they've been bamboozled? Maybe I should contact them.

Go right ahead and contact them all buddy. If you take the time to read my posts above, I explained my confusion with an affiliated submissions company and apologize for the false offer of a service. Maybe you should take the time to read everything before continuing to complain.

Up until now vorcate I have tried to stay clear of this thread and instead get a bundle of laughs along the way. But, I couldn't resist joining in.

A good businessperson has always heard the phrase, "the client is always correct". Let me re-phrase this, "The client, potential clients and general public, are always correct"

Think about this quote carefully, read this thread from the beginning, note down each question that has been noted by either a client, a potential client or a member of the general public and then go over and see exactly which ones you have answered.

Then, answer the ones that you have not answered, do this in a way that is not acting against whoever it may be asking the question, but in a way that you, at least appear, to be 'with' the client.

Accept that you, your company or somebody within your company has done wrong in a number of ways and act upon it in a way that is going to benefit both you and the person who has the question.

It may be far too late to keep or gain any reputation now but at least go out with some pride that in the end you realised that something connected to you was in the wrong and that you realised and learnt that you need to try and put things right and that you did this be answering the questions in the way I state above.

vorcate... do yourself a favour, because looking here you sure are not going to get any from anybody else.

Originally posted by vorcate
Go right ahead and contact them all buddy. If you take the time to read my posts above, I explained my confusion with an affiliated submissions company and apologize for the false offer of a service. Maybe you should take the time to read everything before continuing to complain.

But evosolutions.com and vorcate.com's testimonials list two identical clients, with the same testimonials. Care to address that? Perhaps the fishing-guide guy can enlighten me when I ask him about his testimonial appearing for two separate companies. Unless this wouldn't be news to him?

Originally posted by vorcate
<<Fluff removed>> These forums are simply for relief of anger and situations, and that's fine. I apologize for your negative experience with VBS, but can assure you that we don't do business that way. As for the 1 million search engines, we made a mistake. The company we were working with (BlastEngine, Inc.) openly advertised this as an auto-submission to 1 million search engines, and I was not aware that they were FFA sites until we started receiving e-mails from them all. So I apologize again in that regards, and to Dave B, for creating a false image and array of services on our behalf.
Originally posted by vorcate
If you take the time to read my posts above, I explained my confusion with an affiliated submissions company and apologize for the false offer of a service. Maybe you should take the time to read everything before continuing to complain.

Nevermind the fact that the "employee" who "resigned" decided for some reason to threaten BigBison with a lawsuit for libel over a company for which he no longer works (wha...?).

The first quote was made on Dec. 21, at 5:35 p.m. Between Vorcate's admission to false marketing at that time (claiming to be the fault of a 3rd party provider) and the screenshot I've provided taken nearly 26 hours later, whatever number of people have visited vorcate.com have potentially been subjected to this admittedly false marketing scam.

I don't know about anyone else, but if I found out I'd been misleading and lying to my current and potential clients, the action I'd take would be swift and decisive. To not do so is to knowingly continue to mislead and lie, and casts a guilty light on the individual who allows this to go on. You've admitted your marketing was fraudulent. You've continued to market fraudulently.

There's nothing more to say.

But tell me how my logic is faulty, and I'm sure I'll come up with something.

P.S. If you're wondering why I, or all the others posting here, care so much, it's because this is our industry you're defacing, and you shouldn't need to ask why we'd take that personally. The point I made above is just one of many...

This marks the 765th view of this thread. Just wanted to point that out...What you think that means, I'll leave that up to you, not me.

I hope you do not take the advice to change your tune and make something positive out of this. I am happy that you are showing the true vorcate colors and not trying to mask what a pathetic little company it truly is(in my opinion of course ;))

The silence is deafening.
...

...

...

2:43 p.m. Eastern, and the marketing lies are still firmly in place on his site. I think that pretty much sorts this thread. Another fraudster is exposed and accounted for.
The worst part is all he had to do was clean up his act, make a few apologies and keep his nose clean for a while to show people he's serious, and everything probably would have been fine. But if deception is all you know, transacting business legitimately might be too big a paradigm shift to manage. Either way, at least the keyword "vorcate" and all of the URLs BigBison posted will turn up this thread in a search, valuable information for the millions of visitors who come to WHT every month.

That's that :nuke:

http://keyloop.com/keyloop/projects_display.asp?ID=-758727899

Bid Price:US$600.00
Bidder Comments : Hello. My name is Jeff and I am the owner of Vorcate Business Solutions at vorcate.com. We have been expanding rapidly across the internet over the past few years, and are constantly obtaining new forms of business methods, such as Keyloop, in hopes to help websites and corporations become even more well-known and popular. We specialize in the design and marketing area, and have helped many companies over the years create their dreams online. From full website development, to online marketing such as Search Engine Optimization, development materials, link exchanges, etc. We strongly feel that all the bids you have received so far are outrageously high, and unnecessary to waste your money with. For a total of $600.00, we can work with you and create a custom marketing solution to your problems, which will bring you more up to date online, as well as rank very high in search engines. If you are not satisfied, we will do it again. We can do this on a monthly basis for you as well, as an ongoing partnership, for $350.00/mo. Basically, we will create a hidden theme within each and every page's HTML code to bring you up higher in rankings. We also have many ways you can become higher than this, but that would be discussed upon approval from you. This final price is including submission to over 1,000,000 search engines as well, no hassle for you at all. If you need more information on our services or would like to see some of our work, please visit vorcate.com, or you may contact me directly at jeff @ vorcate.com. Thanks!

A backdoor....

This is all hilarious to me since I too was HARASSED by Vorcate. They contacted me in reference once to a post that they had no experience in. I asked for a premade template made in a contest that didn't win. They did not know what contest and had no experience in what I needed. But they contacted me anyways. When I did not choose them for the job, they still did not leave me alone. I know they will reply to this with some excuse, and that is why they will never be successful :clap:

Interesting thread. I only hope it won't serve this company interests... but I could hardly see how it would...

Piefou

LMAO .. <note to self .. Never piss BigBison off>

Originally posted by RHS_Sam_DZ
LMAO .. <note to self .. Never piss BigBison off>
If you're up-front about your business practices and you run your business with integrity, you have nothing to fear from the buffalo man. While I don't share his vigor for the pursuit of indecency in our industry (I just don't have it in me to do the research he's capable of doing), I do certainly share in his enthusiasm!

Originally posted by RHS_Sam_DZ
LMAO .. <note to self .. Never piss BigBison off>

Vorcate didn't piss me off, that isn't my criteria. In fact, more than one company has pissed me off without getting taken to task in public. Lie to your customers and the general public (or in this case, harass non-customers) and I will have fun using your own words to make you squirm, since liars tend to contradict themselves.

It isn't like I go around looking for this sort of thing. When I stumble across shenanigans, well, let's just say I can't help myself!

Speaking of lying:

Originally posted by vorcate
...If you take the time to read my posts above, I explained my confusion with an affiliated submissions company and apologize for the false offer of a service...

Bull. Vorcate still hasn't changed his site. What kind of apology is that? He's sorry for offering false services, yet continues to offer them?

Lock the thread! :D

Why would you lock it? They have done nothing wrong only expressed their feelings against this company. No harm from them, only harm coming from Vorcate for not apoglizing and changing their site....

This thread was a really good read, and gave me a few laughs. Vorcate, your company (and i use the term company loosely) is a joke. You sound about 12 years old. It wont be long before we see your domain up for sale for $10 in the offers / requests section.

lol Bub host. Unfortunatley I have to agree with you. This is fricken hilarious. Vorcate doesnt know what he/she is doing. But its past his/her bedtime now so sshhh.... wouldnt wanna wake the baby. I mean, this is not the way to handle it vorcate. Saying I am done posting here and then reposting again lol. what a joke. 1million Search Engines? I wanna be listed in 1 million search engines! How much does it cost?

Well, the search engine blurb has been changed in a past couple days to "Submit your website to the largest search engines world wide to increase traffic and popularity." It seems the pressure was too great after all. The change in ambient music leads me to believe Jeff has located the other thread about his business's shady practices in which his use of music was criticized as well as an aside. Looking around various forums, I wonder how many Vorcate warning threads have made their way around the net in total...

I just had to say, that this thread confirmed my suspicions not trusting web-service companies whos' website comes across as one of those dating sites when you first see it.

Either way, I just have to agree with what was said before, Vorcate, for "not posting in forums", you sure seem to have taken quite an interest in this thread.

Is it just me or this thread has a PR of 2 .. :)

Even the women on the Vorcate website is wondering what the hell is going on:

http://www.vorcate.com/Main_Testimonials1.jpg

:rofl:

Now, I'm not in the business of slamming someone's design choices. There's no need to let this otherwise very legitimate thread about questionable business practices degenerate into tomato throwing. Save it for the day when Jeff puts his site in the site reviews section, though judging by the sustained silence, I doubt we'll hear from him (or his alter ego VorcateProjects who checks this thread from time to time) anytime soon.

Originally posted by the_pm
Now, I'm not in the business of slamming someone's design choices. There's no need to let this otherwise very legitimate thread about questionable business practices degenerate into tomato throwing. Save it for the day when Jeff puts his site in the site reviews section, though judging by the sustained silence, I doubt we'll hear from him (or his alter ego VorcateProjects who checks this thread from time to time) anytime soon.

Sorry, since this thread is basically 'over' because of Vorcates silence, i thought I might crack a joke ;)

Originally posted by Bub Host
Sorry, since this thread is basically 'over' because of Vorcates silence, i thought I might crack a joke ;) Mmm..yeah, it's hard to argue with you there. But I think the big joke's already been cracked ;)

Originally posted by the_pm
But I think the big joke's already been cracked ;)

You can say that again :P

Yeah, again....and again....and again.... lol

I think hes realised hes wrong :)

I hope so...after 5 pages of him loosing so called "fights"...

Originally posted by CPR
I think hes realised hes wrong :)
I think he realizes he's caught.

If he does see the error of his ways and he's trying to do things honestly after reading this thread and rethinking his business ethics, he owes the greater development community one cosmic mea culpa, and this is the place where he should do it.

Until then, he's just another shady developer gone into hiding after being exposed.