You hear people talk about how a hosting co is defined as being a quality host or not. Game server co and webhosting co's.

I signed up with diyhosting and after the fact found out that there was no way for me to transfer accts from a cpanel acct. I asked their tech support if they could and they said it could not be done that I would have to manually move each acct over myself. That would mean I would have to transfer all the files over and recreate email accts and mysql db's for each acct. Quite alot of work. I messed around with the H-sphere panel a bit and found it quite a bit to my unliking. ok i hated it lol. Anyways.. I email them back telling them to cancel and refund me. This is over the course of about 2-3 days. I havent moved a single acct over, I havent used up bw transferring files. Only thing I did was mess around in the H-sphere control panel.

I get an email back about the cancellation was taken care of. I check my acct to see the refund and its not there so I email them back asking when I will see the refund.

The reply?

"We only provide refunds in cases where we violate our SLA.
We do not have a money back refund period of time."

I'm sorry, but what a crock of ****. What kind of company keeps a persons money when he doesnt use up any bw or space? When Im unhappy with the cpanel? I know almost every co thats reputable has a refund policy....Sad.

Next time read the terms of service.

ahh come on. Maybe so. But you got to admit thats a crappy stance they took on a customer thats unhappy with the service. It was like 2-3 days. A TOS is great but a little bit of understanding goes a long way towards customer relations. They are trying to hold onto $38 with a deathgrip? If its that great of a company I think they could give a refund to keep some good spirit between us. Now I would never recommend the co. I certainly cant recommend anyone transferring from whm/cpanel to their service.

GotGameServers,

If our policies are unacceptable, then you should not have accepted them upon signup.

It isn't hidden away somewhere in some small print, it's clearly stated in our FAQ, and policy pages, and even again during the signup process.

http://www.diyhosting.com/faq2.php#9

Q9. Do you offer money back guarantee?
We have a service level agreement in place. If for any reason we do not live up that SLA, then you are refunded, in full for that month, and any affected months.


We also have it stated in an FAQ movie, for further clarification, if needed: http://www.diyhosting.com/faq.php (#9)

I'm sorry to hear you don't agree with our policy of not refunding you if nothing was wrong with your account, that has always been our stated (and very public) policy, and will remain as such.

If you wish to discuss your request with us, please do so via the correct means. We do not discuss tickets of past, or present resellers, with anyone other than the account holder, nor do we discuss it in public, even if invited to do so.

A point to note:
Threatening our staff with posting on WebHostingTalk, will not get a different answer from us.

Simon

also

http://hostingzoom.com/30day.html

Heres a co I can recommend. I signed up with them (anticpating a refund from diy) and they transferred all my cpanel/whm customers for me. Support is great. Friendly staff. 30day money back (that I wont be using lol) . They provide anonymous support for my hosting clients. Killer servers (dual xeon 2.8ghz with HT - 4gb ram). Im confident that if I was unhappy for any reason they would give a refund, but I seriously doubt i will need that. Im rather happy there.

I didnt threaten to post here. I posted here and provided them with a link if they cared to read it. Thats a whole lot different then making threats. I dont make threats, I take action where needed. I gave them a link here as a matter of information.

Originally posted by GotGameServers
I didnt threaten to post here. I posted here and provided them with a link if they cared to read it. Thats a whole lot different then making threats. I dont make threats, I take action where needed. I gave them a link here as a matter of information.
Good luck with your new provider, I wish you the utmost of success.

This will be my last reply to this post. I am glad however that you highlighted this policy on WebHostingTalk, as we always strive (hence the number of times it is stated on our site) to make this policy as clear as possible.

Simon

yeah its all over your website. I found it in 2 places. the FAQ and USER AGREEMENT.

Both places do not say "we dont give a money back" - they talk about your sla but thats it. It doesnt specifically say "We do not offer a MBG, we have a SLA in place that will protect you and provide a refund in event of your site being down etc etc"

I'm with you on this one Game. They could at least have given you a partial refund since you didn't know their service wasn't to your liking until you signed up. It's called customer relations. something sorely lacking. People don't like being treated like walets.

I certainly cant recommend anyone transferring from whm/cpanel to their service.

I can most certainly recommend anyone transfer a cPanel/whm account to h-sphere. Yes, it is ALOT of work. However, making a cPanel decision in the first place was a mistake.

Personally, I just spent the last 8 days of my life transferring 50 + accounts and 75 + domains from cPanel to our h-sphere cluster. The end users and the resellers could not be happier.

You cannot compare cPanel with h-sphere - and although it most certainly would've been alot of work - you have not done your customers any favors by keeping them on cPanel. A cPanel decision was originally your mistake - and one that will eventually cost you time, money and customers. The longer you wait, the more expensive the lesson will be.

Killer servers (dual xeon 2.8ghz with HT - 4gb ram)

Great - but, youre still in an all-in-wonder cPanel environment. What happens if that server goes down? Your entire business is down - thats what happens..

Move to an h-sphere cluster and begin to realize the power of stability and redundancy. Losing a server means losing 1 resource (ie control panel or email or web or mysql) - however, everything else stays up.

Change is never easy - but, you have to ask yourself - Do you really want to run your business on something as flaky and inherently UNredundant as cPanel?

Anyway - best of luck with your new provider - hopefully you wont need to take advantage of their 30 day money back guarantee.

Originally posted by Jalberts
I'm with you on this one Game. They could at least have given you a partial refund since you didn't know their service wasn't to your liking until you signed up. It's called customer relations. something sorely lacking. People don't like being treated like walets.

Customer relations? The OP isnt a customer - the company does not offer a 30 day money back guarantee (unless its SLA related) - the account was cancelled upon request - what is the problem here?

30 day money back gurantees are a great alternate solution to free trials - however - there's no reason a company "must" offer this - to demand a company to change their policies in order to accomodate a client that is obviously being difficult isnt really acceptable in my mind..

Good luck with your new provider GotGameServers. Hopefully, unlike with DIYhosting, everything will work out.

Originally posted by Martinez
Hopefully ... everything will work out.

Hope is a good thing - keep doing the same thing and hope for better results...

I guess my point is I feel like I deserve a refund because..

1. I didnt use any resources. I was up for 2-3 days. I created one package but put no customers on there.

2. I was unhappy with the hsphere cpanel.


Im totally pissed off now tho because, like you said, I feel like a wallet. lol.

I know that if I was in his position I wouldnt feel morally right keeping that money because no resources were used. I guess as long as he can sleep at night.

SLA's are great but behind the SLA and TOS etc etc , theres a person and im one too. If he were in my shoes he would be pissed as hell too.

GotGameServers - can I ask you this another way...

Was anything wrong with their service? Did you not research the company or the control panel before you purchased an account?

Basically, you are coming to WHT to try and damage a GOOD companies reputation over what - $40-$50.

If you had done your research, you knew exactly what you were getting into - A $40-$50 investment on your part to determine if the solution works for you seems more then reasonable.

Many MAJOR companies will offer their clients a "paid" trial - and if either party is unhappy - they go their separate ways - IBM, DELL and HP all practise this policy - why do you feel you are owed anything?

because i used no resources. I didnt eat up BW or space. I logged into the control panel and looked around and tried to set it up. Then I found out there was no means to transfer over anything from cpanel box. I asked their support if it was possible they said no. I fiddled with it a bit longer and just didnt like it at all once i realized how much work was going to go into getting it right.

Im not trying to damage them, im venting my anger/frustration and at the same time warning others that may be unfamiliar with them that they dont offer a refund.

Go look at the thread about creating a GSP certification site. One of the things that comes up again and again about what makes a quality game server provider is a refund/money back policy. Why arent quality hosts held to the same standard? I would certainly give a refund to anyone that I hosted a website for if they were unhappy within a reasonable time. 3 days or so is a very reasonable time.

Originally posted by CartikaHosting
Customer relations? The OP isnt a customer - the company does not offer a 30 day money back guarantee (unless its SLA related) - the account was cancelled upon request - what is the problem here?

30 day money back gurantees are a great alternate solution to free trials - however - there's no reason a company "must" offer this - to demand a company to change their policies in order to accomodate a client that is obviously being difficult isnt really acceptable in my mind..

The OP WAS a customer, and asked for a refund after a short period of time and finding it wouldn't suit him after all. What's the problem in giving someone like that a refund? Who said "must"? We're just saying "should" as in good faith. It's not fair that the host now has money and isn't providing anything useful. Sure maybe there's a little work on the host's part setting up an account. But there's MUCH more work on the customer's end when transferring stuff from another host.

I've even had a host NOT refund me when they had a refund policy. They just outright ignored me (CIhost.com).

And as far as H-sphere, never heard of it till now. I've been looking for dedicated servers all day and not a single one of them offered H-sphere that I saw. So the problem isn't in making the choice, but the lack of choice available.

Why arent quality hosts held to the same standard? I would certainly give a refund to anyone that I hosted a website for if they were unhappy within a reasonable time. 3 days or so is a very reasonable time.

Why is a money back guarantee a requirement of a quality host - look through the TOS posted on IBM's or DELL's sites - specifically around hosting.

May I ask again - why do you feel it is your right to receive a refund when there was nothing wrong with the service you purchased and the company specifically states they do not offer this.

Who said "must"? We're just saying "should" as in good faith.

Why "should" they do anything - and good faith is not threatening a company with a post on WHT unless they get their way - thats just blackmail - and I applaud DIY for sticking to their policies.

And as far as H-sphere, never heard of it till now. I've been looking for dedicated servers all day and not a single one of them offered H-sphere that I saw.

Sometimes you have to dig deeper for the best



I've even had a host NOT refund me when they had a refund policy.

In this case there is no refund policy - I would be ALOT more critical of a company that offered something but would not honor it - again - this is not the case here..

So the problem isn't in making the choice, but the lack of choice available.

There's always choice - you just have to search enough to find the right one. And if you make the wrong one for YOU - you cannot hold someone else accountable for that.

Originally posted by CartikaHosting
Why "should" they do anything - and good faith is not threatening a company with a post on WHT unless they get their way - thats just blackmail - and I applaud DIY for sticking to their policies.

He already responded to that. He didn't threaten anything, he just posted his opinion here. That's a right, not blackmail. As it's DIY's right not to refund. But I can tell you here's another person that won't even look at them now, based on their response.


Sometimes you have to dig deeper for the best


And sometimes looking for a needle in a haystack isn't my idea of a good way to spend hours on the web.


In this case there is no refund policy - I would be ALOT more critical of a company that offered something but would not honor it - again - this is not the case here..
[quote]

You're right, it's not, It's about one person stating his opinion. Some might percieve the lack of a refund policy as a nebulous black hole, and maybe the only way that company makes money without actually providing anything. They should provide a refund if there was a honest mistake. What's wrong with that? Apparently everything, in your philosophy.

[quote]
There's always choice - you just have to search enough to find the right one. And if you make the wrong one for YOU - you cannot hold someone else accountable for that.

lol now you're putting words in my mouth. Who exactly was I blaming for not having a choice? If H-sphere was the end-all/be-all why isn't it more prevalent than CPanel?

He already responded to that. He didn't threaten anything, he just posted his opinion here. That's a right, not blackmail. As it's DIY's right not to refund. But I can tell you here's another person that won't even look at them now, based on their response.

He may have responded to that publicly - but - what he has done privately is a different matter - I will leave this to the mods to sort out properly - as they always do..

If H-sphere was the end-all/be-all why isn't it more prevalent than CPanel?

Its not that h-sphere is the end all and be all - but, pretty much anything is better then cPanel.

why is cPanel more prevalent? really a discussion for another thread - but, in a nutshell - brilliant marketing strategy - lowest startup costs, attracting a large majority of people that want to get into the business and normally would not be able to. My humble opinion - cPanel is responsible for 90% of the "I hate my host" threads - again - another discussion for another day.

Im not going to keep repeating myself here cartika - I already stated my reasons why I think I need a refund. Im a customer not a # and there is a human element to consider not just their TOS. When they arent providing a service to me and I didnt use it when I had it then how do they feel justified in holding on to my money?

Would you be able to sleep with yourself at night if you kept a guys money just because "its in our tos" ?

And they do NOT specifically state they dont have a mbg. They simply talk about their policy in the event of an outage or disruption in service.

Go read my other post about their "free template" - thats also a factor in my decision. They have since removed it from their reseller page but go read the post about it. No one else could find the terms of their "free template" Its only told to you after you sign up and ask for it.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351780

Originally posted by Jalberts
We're just saying "should" as in good faith. It's not fair that the host now has money and isn't providing anything useful. Sure maybe there's a little work on the host's part setting up an account. But there's MUCH more work on the customer's end when transferring stuff from another host.

Thankyou for defining what we should and should not offer.

You also assume there is no work on our part to set up a reseller. You could not be more wrong in that assumption.

Originally posted by Jalberts
I've even had a host NOT refund me when they had a refund policy. They just outright ignored me (CIhost.com).
How is this relevant to this topic? We do not operate CI Host, we did ignore any of the topic starters requests, nor did we state at any point that we give refunds when nothing is wrong on the account.

Originally posted by Jalberts And as far as H-sphere, never heard of it till now. I've been looking for dedicated servers all day and not a single one of them offered H-sphere that I saw. So the problem isn't in making the choice, but the lack of choice available.
I also do not see that as relevant to this post.

You are indeed correct: You will not find many providers selling dedicated servers with H-Sphere installed. This is because H-Sphere operates on a different level, and is not really designed for pre-fab single server environments. It is designed for high performance clusters of multiple servers.

All users are given more than enough tools via our website, to ascertain whether we are the correct provider for them. This includes complete FAQ databases (offered in visual and textual form), presentation movies, pre sales easy-contact forms, toll free phone sales and support option, and live sales chat.

We back all our services with a complete SLA. This SLA is valid for any month.. not just the first thirty days. This gives all users complete control and protection, for their entire duration with DIYHosting.

Gotgameservers, I am sorry to hear that you disagree with our policies. They are in place to protect both parties; The consumer (in this case: you) and the vendor (in this case: DIYHosting).

I do not believe our policy on this issue can be more clear and Simon's response is one that I of course wholeheartedly agree with.


R'gds
Dean Cahl

And they do NOT specifically state they dont have a mbg.

Do they specifically state they have a MBG - Im just confused what it is you're trying to accomplish here.

You are obviously trying to get your money back - and the company has clearly stated they do not offer this - why is this a problem?

There are costs associated with managing your account - setting it up, removing the account, etc...

The larger the company - the greater these costs. Just because you didnt use any resources, did not mean your time with them did not cost them money.

You are free to negotiate with them directly and see if you can work something out - but, leveraging a post on WHT to get what you want is not appropriate, and I do not blame them at all for the stance they have taken.

Originally posted by GotGameServers
Go read my other post about their "free template" - thats also a factor in my decision. They have since removed it from their reseller page but go read the post about it. No one else could find the terms of their "free template" Its only told to you after you sign up and ask for it.

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=351780
As stated in that thread, we acknowledged the one clerical error on our website, and I requested that you contact me with the relevant information, and I would give you a template.

You did not contact me.

R'gds
Dean

GotGameServers, you've kept repeating why you need a refund, but you have yet to say once, why you didn't read the TOS prior to signing up.

We had this type of situation before as well....and believe me, that customer did not get their way either. They made all kinds of threats to get us to break policy, including reporting us to the BBB....still didn't hapen for them.

The fact is....you didn't read the TOS, that's YOUR fault, not DIY's. If you would have read the TOS, or the FAQ you would have found the answer.

Customers complain about prices being high, about hosts being rude, etc....however this is just a prime example of why prices are high, and a prime example of how clients can be.

IMO You DON'T deserve a refund, and if you received one, I would be very disappointed. You're attempting to take advantage of the system, because it did not suit your needs.

In addition, you recommended a host after being with them less than a day? You said yourself that it took you a while to find out that you didn't like DIY....how long will it take before you're back here doing the same to your new host, when they don't give you your way.

I am fairly sure (I have seen it on a government site somewhere...) that there is a United States law that says refunds on all online purchases must be done if requested with-in 10 days of purchase.

Edit: This law does exist, it is not known by most but it does exist.

I am too lazy to find it right now. I side with GotGameServers, it is an unfair refund policy, nothing more, nothing less. It's not the fault of the host but an unfair policy none the less exactly as the topic says. You should however read the terms of service.

ANMMark, when you make a mistake, you'll remember this. People make mistakes, if a mistake is made and the company hasn't lost money, a refund is in order.

By the way GotGameServers, I side with you on the matter but your behavior in this thread is unacceptable. You are not going to achieve anything this way.

I am fairly sure (I have seen it on a government site somewhere...) that there is a United States law that says refunds on all online purchases must be done if requested with-in 10 days of purchase.


Policies are legally binding agreements between a client and the company.

In regards to US Law...
1. DIY is a Canadian company. US Law has no jurisdiction

2. There are also laws in place to protect companies from clients who subject the company to unfair practices and lible for that matter.

3. It was the consumer's responsibility to read the Terms of Service prior to agreeing to them. The client agreed to those terms, and that's just how it is.

I don't find it fair that if I cancel my cellphone before a year of service, they charge me a $250 cancellation fee regardless if I used $250 worth of service or not, but guess what.....they do, I agreed to that, enough said.

This scenerio is a great example of why many hosts don't offer money back guarantees. Clients can hop from host to host, and get a refund everytime.

There's always talk about "protecting the consumer" from wrong doing what about "protecting the host" from wrong doing?

*edit*
Just wanted to add that from the time the client gets their account, the company is spending money on that client. The account takes time to setup, and to monitor/administer.

ok, let's look at it this way. You buy a pair of pants, they don't fit, maybe you didn't try them on at the store, because that size normally fits with no problem. You bring them back, get your money back. Is anyone at fault? Perhaps, perhaps not. It's about maintaining good relationships with customers and keeping threads like this from happening.

DIY, you feel you're in the right, maybe you are, but a little bad press can go a long way, and something you should consider. Someone called it blackmail, that's pretty harsh. If the customer didn't have a point I would say they were right. But charging someone for something they didn't use, and isn't right for them might be unethical in some respects. I'm sure I'll get flamed for that one. But, sorry customer, you agreed so your'e SOL, sorry mate.

I run a business too, and am the first to give someone's money back if they're not satisfied, TOS be damned.

The items i mentioned that you call not relevant to this thread were brought up by someone else, so the thread got hijacked, basically blaming Game because he "chose" Cpanel instead of H-Sphere. That's how it started.

Originally posted by Lev
I am fairly sure (I have seen it on a government site somewhere...) that there is a United States law that says refunds on all online purchases must be done if requested with-in 10 days of purchase.

No such law exists, nor would it make any sense for one to exist. I am not sure where you heard this.. but it is incorrect both for tangible, and intangible goods or services.

Originally posted by Lev
I side with GotGameServers, it is an unfair refund policy, nothing more, nothing less. It's not the fault of the host but an unfair policy none the less exactly as the topic says. You should however read the terms of service.

It can only be even entertained as an unfair policy if the user wasn't given sufficient tools to see such a policy.

We go as far as hiring a company to produce mini movies to literally state our policy on this issue, I do not believe this would class as fine print, hidden, or anything other than an open book approach.

I will follow Simons lead on this post, and make this my last reply. It does neither party any good to go around in circles. Our policy is very clearly stated.

R'gds
Dean

ok, let's look at it this way. You buy a pair of pants, they don't fit, maybe you didn't try them on at the store, because that size normally fits with no problem. You bring them back, get your money back. Is anyone at fault? Perhaps, perhaps not. It's about maintaining god relationships with customers and keeping threads like this from happening.


If the store clearly states that there are no refunds on that pair of pants, or any clothing on that rack.....try to take it back and get a refund. There are many stores that have a "no refund policy" Just try to get away with getting a refund from them.


DIY, you feel you're in the right, maybe you are, but a little bad press can go a long way, and something you should consider.


There is not one company on this planet that has not received bad press. One client complaining doesn't go as far as you think. Publicity is publicity no matter how you look at it.


I run a business too, and am the first to give someone's money back if they're not satisfied, TOS be damned.


With that attitude torward your TOS, I have a feeling you won't be running a business for very long.

one customer that receives great service may tell a handfull of people what great service he got.

one customer that receives bad service will tell everyone he can.

Thats a simple rule of thumb in a customer oriented business.

Could I have maybe looked closer at the TOS? Yeah.

Could DIY be more professional in their treatment of me and given a refund? Definately.

Thats alright. They also admitted a few posts ago in this thread that they would have given me my free template. So wonder if they will still follow thru on that. Their website stated that I got a free template with reseller acct when I signed up lol. So I should still be entitled to that.

I'm with GotGameServers.

I come from a country within the EU, and we have 14 days to withdraw from a online service with full compensation. EU as a whole has 7 days.

I think its a fair law!

The only limitation there is if it was a custom build hosting plan!

Sorry to hear that its not the case in US and Canada!

Yeah, the US, and Canada seem to actually care about a company getting ripped off, or taken advantage of.

Originally posted by ANMMark
Yeah, the US, and Canada seem to actually care about a company getting ripped off, or taken advantage of.

Wouldn't that be a matter of opinion, or ?

Well okay...in my opinion...the fact that your country allows a consumer to use services, agree to a legally binding contract, then break it at will, and then rape the host of the money you paid them (as long as it's within 14 days)..... I don't think it's opinion any longer.

Originally posted by ANMMark
Well okay...in my opinion...the fact that your country allows a consumer to use services, agree to a legally binding contract, then break it at will, and then rape the host of the money you paid them (as long as it's within 14 days)..... I don't think it's opinion any longer.

Ok, maybe not 14 days, but a week seems fair to me. What if you can't figure the hosting service out afterall, is it just to bad ?

if you can't figure it out.....you should first ask the host. DIY does a walk through with their clients, and allows the client to schedule it.

Since he seems to have had problems taking opportunities to contact support for other things he wanted, instead he just complained.....it seems to me that he didn't even bother. He just gave up, blamed DIY, and then came here.

Thus not even giving DIY the chance. How would you feel, on the other end of that....the client doesn't give you a chance to help...they just leave, and come here and bash you?

I am also from a country in the EU and I don't agree with
GotGameServers.

If a company does not deliver on its promises than you should be refunded even it the TOS says that there is no MBG.

However, in this case DIY has done nothing wrong, they have delivered what they promised. GotGameServers should have done his homework better: he should have read the TOS and he should have informed before he entered into the agreement if cPanel-accounts could be easily transferred.

He hasn't done both things and now he expects...no demands a refund because he is unhappy!

He should take his loss and stop blaming DIY for his mistakes.

Originally posted by KHL
I'm with GotGameServers.

I come from a country within the EU, and we have 14 days to withdraw from a online service with full compensation. EU as a whole has 7 days.

I think its a fair law!

The only limitation there is if it was a custom build hosting plan!

Sorry to hear that its not the case in US and Canada!
Actually, you missed an important part of the act, that states the following: (yes, we trade in Europe too, and have access to copies of every law we have to abide by, being a Dublin registered company.)

The right of withdrawal may not be exercised in respect of contracts:
For the provision of services if performance has begun with the consumer's agreement before the end of the seven working day period.

The service/performance of service began immediately, hence, the act does not apply to a service such as hosting, domain name registration, purchase of SSL certifiate, or any such related services.

The act you refer to is for protection against services that have not yet begun, or that a user has not yet had access to, or been given the ability to use.

The act also protects against purchasing a delayed-start service (DIYHosting does not provide any delayed-start services).

Simon

Remember the good old days when businesses would refund an unhappy customer simply because it was good business? I guess I'm old school because I truly believe that one unhappy customer can create a lot of ill-will. In these Internet-connected days, it is no longer just their families and friends they complain about you to.

Has anyone else taken the time to read the TOS in question? The ONLY place I see refunds, or the lack thereof, mentioned is this line "Setup fees may be charged for all new accounts and major account changes and are non-refundable."

So the only mention of not providing refunds is in relation to setup fees. Elsewhere on the site that say they do not charge setup fees, so I guess your initial payment wasn't one. :-)

They do say that cancellations require 30 days (?!?) written notice, so they got you there.

Still, I wonder if these hard-nosed, rules-are-rules providers realize how much future business they lose by having discussions like this out in the ether for all potential customers to Google?

thank you sightz. You hit it on the head.

They dont mention it. They preach TOS up one side and down the other but they were more than happy to breach their own TOS by cancelling my service when I asked them to after only 3 days.

And I did go thru all the proper channels trying to get a walkthrough but the times never worked out so I just asked in email about transferring etc.

I guess I'm old school because I truly believe that one unhappy customer can create a lot of ill-will. In these Internet-connected days, it is no longer just their families and friends they complain about you to.


Sightz, I can only partially agree with you here. You've been here long enough to see it bud. No matter how many times a host gets complained about here....you still have people signing up with them, because the company is within their budget, they wanna test them anyway, etc...

Believe me....I have learned around here that when you open yourself up to massive amounts of clients, you simply cannot please everyone, no matter how hard you try. Sometimes your own emotions come out, confusion sets in, etc and other times regardless of how polite you are...there are clients that cannot be pleased.

As I said before, there is no one single company that has gotten a complaint about them, whether it be public or private, consumers complain about everything, and sometimes the slightest things.

While I cannot answer for DIY, it is apparent that GotGameServers did not read the TOS, until after the fact. At that point, many consumers get into the mind set of "oh yeah...watch and see if I don't get my way whaaaa!"

You have to be "hard-nosed" when it comes to your TOS, otherwise your TOS becomes a couple of pointless paragraphs. Once it's breeched it's breeched.

So, then since GotGameServers stated the contract was breeched, he's saying the agreements were void, literally opening the possibility for DIY's next post to be GotGameServers's name, address, phone number, credit card info, etc... afterall, if there is no agreement between them (and generally speaking breechment is typically retroactive), there's also no agreement in place to protect GotGameServers's privacy any longer either.

one must be very very careful what they say when it comes to legal agreements, and whatever is said, should be said in private between the parties not brought into public as GotGameServers has done, as now if there is any legalities, we've all become witnesses to statements made.

My only advise for DIY is to make their final statement and then ignore GotGameServers' public rantings until he intends to handle the issue properly, and privately.

At which point if GotGameServers wishes to continue digging a hole for himself with public statements, that would be his call.

We hav handled it. Thanks for the support and/or feedback.

Originally posted by sightz
Remember the good old days when businesses would refund an unhappy customer simply because it was good business? I guess I'm old school because I truly believe that one unhappy customer can create a lot of ill-will. In these Internet-connected days, it is no longer just their families and friends they complain about you to.



That is all well and good, but back in the good old days fraud wasn't a major concern. If companies all offered a no questions asked refund policy then a person technically could spend say $20 and pay for 1 months hosting and then at day 29 get a refund, signup somewhere else and use that exact same $20. This could continue forever. I think DIY has every right to not offer an unconditional money back guarantee. For every 1 person like gotgameservers that might be justified their will probably be 2 that are just out to screw the host.

That is all well and good, but back in the good old days fraud wasn't a major concern. If companies all offered a no questions asked refund policy then a person technically could spend say $20 and pay for 1 months hosting and then at day 29 get a refund, signup somewhere else and use that exact same $20. This could continue forever. I think DIY has every right to not offer an unconditional money back guarantee. For every 1 person like gotgameservers that might be justified their will probably be 2 that are just out to screw the host.


Perfectly stated

Originally posted by ANMMark
Perfectly stated

Absolute rubbish!!

The amount of work and effort required to transfer all your hosts etc you would not be able to run your hosting company. Also you would have dns downtime propagation.... maybe you could use it for your own personal site... but even then if you make some databases, forums etc then its major hassle..and its also obvious your doing it to the host

and a single hosting account is so cheap now, who would bother doing that?

the guy was only with them for 3 days, and he didnt move a single host. He asked support for help moving his accounts they said no. He wanted a refund.

I think he deserved one.

Yes DIYHosting have it in there TOS, and yes they have good rep on WHT, but in this case I find it ridiculous they dont offer a refund.


As a side note:

I got an account with webgator. They way they advertise the asp and the private name servers makes it sound like they are setup for you. Well, they aint. I sent them a mail saying I wasnt happy about this and wanted cancel and refund. They advertise the fact they do refunds.

They cancelled and refunded me within minutes.

I can see why some people really rate them with response times like that, they just werent for me.

Webgator are also well respected on WHT, if the above people think for every 1 geniune person there are 2 non-geniunes, then why dont webgator go out of business? Flooded by these non-geniune people all cancelling after 30 days?

I think you just made that statistic up.

In this case, the guy made a geniune mistake, and deserves a refund. End of story.

ianedge.

First the 2-1 ratio I said was just an asumption and not forsure. Also I never said that gotgameservers was trying to beat the system. I simply was explaining why I felt DIY was more then justified to have the clause in their TOS stating they only give a refund when they break their own terms. Whether GotGameServers is right or wrong is not the point.

In this case, the guy made a geniune mistake, and deserves a refund. End of story.
I am glad you have access to our companies records and the customers history, and can take everything said in this topic by the user as gospel truth, and unbias.


He asked support for help moving his accounts they said no. He wanted a refund.

No, he didn't.


the guy was only with them for 3 days, and he didnt move a single host.

No, he wasn't.

Please, if you're going to preach to us what we should, and should not do as a company, please base your claims and statement upon actual fact, instead of guess work.

Business does not operate on guess work. It never has, and never will.


Simon

Originally posted by IHSL
Please, if you're going to preach to us what we should, and should not do as a company, please base your claims and statement upon actual fact, instead of guess work.

Business does not operate on guess work. It never has, and never will.

Lol lol lol...

This is an open forum discussion. It could be that every single person who has ever posted on this forum has lied. Even you. I will never know. As for what he has said so far, it doesnt seem to me like he is lying - but maybe he is, who knows. I will make my judgments based on what people say on here. You will not force me into your opinion.

If you want to prove he is lying by using company files, then its up to you, but will probably break some data protection law - especially if GotGameServers is based in the EU. We have much tighter data protection than the US.

I signed up with diyhosting and after the fact found out that there was no way for me to transfer accts from a cpanel acct. I asked their tech support if they could and they said it could not be done that I would have to manually move each acct over myself.

He said he did. You now say he didnt.

This is over the course of about 2-3 days. I havent moved a single acct over, I havent used up bw transferring files. Only thing I did was mess around in the H-sphere control panel.

Again this is what he said. Again you say he is lying.

Im not Columbo or Murder She Wrote.

Im not here to find out who is lying and who isnt.

But based on what has been said so far and as there is no proof that the GotGameServer is lying - then I still feel the guy deserves a refund for making a genuine mistake.

This is my observation as a whole. I feel the web hosting companies who offer MBGs are more genuine and professional than ones who cant take some critiscm about it on an open forum discussion board.


Oh and as for business operating on guess work. Im not sure what the relevance of that comment is? We are not talking about operating business on guess work - we are talking about a guy who made a mistake with hosting and wanted a refund.

Surely some businesses operate on guess work, or rather, they make informed decisions which sometimes pay off, and sometimes they dont (like commodities etc)...

ps - get a grip mate

Originally posted by hometownhosting
That is all well and good, but back in the good old days fraud wasn't a major concern. If companies all offered a no questions asked refund policy then a person technically could spend say $20 and pay for 1 months hosting and then at day 29 get a refund, signup somewhere else and use that exact same $20. This could continue forever. I think DIY has every right to not offer an unconditional money back guarantee. For every 1 person like gotgameservers that might be justified their will probably be 2 that are just out to screw the host.

I don't think anyone was asking about a "no questions asked" policy. It would have been obvious that Game ddn't use the account to any useful degree. DIY can make exceptions to their TOS, it's always an option. The fact that they are unbending and incompassionate about honest mistakes means they would never get my business. And they're probably lad of that, since I expect a lot from a host, and other things I've heard about them means they wouldn't be able to deliver. Game, you're better off wthout them.

Posted by IHSL four pages ago in this thread
This will be my last reply to this post.

People should never say that, because no one ever sticks to it.

IHSL, just wondering if you have used up $38 worth of your personal time responding to this thread yet?

Is there a point where it becomes economical to just bite the bullet and give the customer what he wants?

Originally posted by ianedge
Lol lol lol...

This is an open forum discussion. It could be that every single person who has ever posted on this forum has lied. Even you. I will never know. As for what he has said so far, it doesnt seem to me like he is lying - but maybe he is, who knows. I will make my judgments based on what people say on here. You will not force me into your opinion.

You stated something as fact. I corrected you. End of story.

As for the trail of your message - look before you type. Our policy on customers' support history has been clearly stated. For you to suggest otherwise, would be (again) ignoring fact.

Simon

Originally posted by sightz
People should never say that, because no one ever sticks to it.

IHSL, just wondering if you have used up $38 worth of your personal time responding to this thread yet?

Is there a point where it becomes economical to just bite the bullet and give the customer what he wants?
I said that, until someone accused us of breaking EU law.

I would also note that the people blindly accusing us of this, that, and the other, should take note of the topic starters last post in this thread.

Simon

Anyone else want to tell diyhosting how to run their business and setup their TOS? I really don't understand what makes anyone think they should be able to change or influence how a company runs their business. It is their business, if they don't want to offer a money back guarantee then that is their perogative and if that doesn't suit you then keep searching.

Someone mentioned previously about how you can return clothes or shoes or what have you to store and get a refund. From my experiences they usually will only let you exchange it for something that fits or on another article that is the same price.

If you bought pants the wrong size and went back and they wouldn't give you a full refund would you go to their President and tell them they should change and make a big public deal about it? Probably not, if you tried most people would laugh in your face...

Originally posted by IHSL
I said that, until someone accused us of breaking EU law.

I would also note that the people blindly accusing us of this, that, and the other, should take note of the topic starters last post in this thread.

Simon

Just to point out I never stated something as fact. I stated something that the original poster said. Have beef with him if the facts aint right.

And just to correct you, you piped back into this thread BEFORE I mentioned the EU laws on data protection.

And to finally correct you, I never said you HAD broken them I simply stated if you used company data to disclose data about GotGameServers then that MIGHT break EU data protection laws.

I dont see anybody accusing DIYHosting of anything. Or indeed telling them how to run there business.

We are simply having a discussion on MBGs and how strict certain hosts are with there TOS/T&Cs.

It is afterall a web hosting talk forum.

I would also like to point this out to hometownhosting.

Originally posted by hometownhosting
Anyone else want to tell diyhosting how to run their business and setup their TOS? I really don't understand what makes anyone think they should be able to change or influence how a company runs their business. It is their business, if they don't want to offer a money back guarantee then that is their perogative and if that doesn't suit you then keep searching.

Someone mentioned previously about how you can return clothes or shoes or what have you to store and get a refund. From my experiences they usually will only let you exchange it for something that fits or on another article that is the same price.

If you bought pants the wrong size and went back and they wouldn't give you a full refund would you go to their President and tell them they should change and make a big public deal about it? Probably not, if you tried most people would laugh in your face...

It's clear from this thread that the hosters have one feeling, and the clients have another. Sure that's a generalization, but is true for the majority of these posts I think.

How exactly is making an exception or two changing a policy? Maybe this thread will help DIY clarify their TOS, or implement some sort of partial refund policy if the service isn't used and a cancellation requested within a reasonable time. No one is saying they should refund money to anyone that asks for no reason, but lumping everyone together and assuming every client that asks for a refund is a crook trying to rip them off, well, you can see how that would make one feel.

In fact, I had just returned a pair of pants the day before posting that. I explained the problem, they gave me a refund. Then I went a bought a pair that fit. Real-life scenario. Never had a problem returning clothing. Getting credits due me from web hosts? Priceless. I'm in the process of going thorugh that now with my current host how had my 6 domains down for 36 hours with no apology or explanation. Relevance to DIY, little to none, but if I get a credit out of them I'd be amazed.

Originally posted by hometownhosting
That is all well and good, but back in the good old days fraud wasn't a major concern. If companies all offered a no questions asked refund policy then a person technically could spend say $20 and pay for 1 months hosting and then at day 29 get a refund, signup somewhere else and use that exact same $20. This could continue forever. I think DIY has every right to not offer an unconditional money back guarantee. For every 1 person like gotgameservers that might be justified their will probably be 2 that are just out to screw the host.

There is no talk on an unconditional money back guarantee anywhere... :rolleyes: The guy had barely been with them and they refuse to refund, they have no money back guarantee at all (well, it's like saying that we have a 100% money back guarantee but we'll start refunding after a day of downtime).

Anyway, I or anyone in this thread is in a position to tell DIY how to run their company. I personally am not, all I am saying is that I don't agree with it (I have the right to state my opinion...), I didn't say change now. This thread is legitimate, it is an unfair refund policy (that is a matter of opinion of course) and therefore the thread author had the "right" to start the topic. If it "hurts the reputation" of the company, perhaps next time the company will think twice before using the policy without common sense (again, matter of opinion). Threads only hurt reputations if the people reading them agree with what the author of the thread said.

Companies should stand up to it's Terms of Service but sometimes exeptions are needed, most business die because they don't make exeptions or are unwilling to adapt to the demand of the public (I'm not going to argue about this).

Anyway, the problem has been solved "GotGameServers: We hav handled it. Thanks for the support and/or feedback."