I come from a design backgorund, and I am trying to make the leap to HTML. I was told dreamweaver was the best all around WYSIWIG editor to use for HTML, but I am constantly being frsutrated by this product.

It always seems to get things wrong, like style sheets, and tables. Especially if I am trying to delete part of a table.

I have heard some good things about Go-Live. Does anyone with dreamweaver experience have experience with Go-Live?

Any help is appreciated.

Give NVU (http://www.nvu.com) a try.
I personally dont really think WYSIWYG editors are the way to go about learning html, but thats just me. ;)

I come from a design backgorund, and I am trying to make the leap to HTML. I was told dreamweaver was the best all around WYSIWIG editor to use for HTML, but I am constantly being frsutrated by this product.
That's not a leap to HTML. That's a leap to Dreamweaver ;)

It always seems to get things wrong, like style sheets, and tables. Especially if I am trying to delete part of a table.
Imagine that...

I have heard some good things about Go-Live.
That's going from bad to worse, IMHO. Both are flawed in the way they treat the Web, but Dreamweaver is much better at guessing correctly with its markup than most others. I'll stand by Eugene's assertion that nVu is worth considering (another great discovery of BigBison, IIRC).

But the best way to learn HTML...is to learn HTML :)

I have to disagree. Dreamweaver is a great tool. I think people think the only people who use it, use it for it's WYSIWYG features, which I rarely do. I am a hand coder 99.9% of the time. But there are features of Dreamweaver that I like alot. Site management for one. The replace feature is exceptional. It's stable. Supports alot of languages with very adjustable highlighting. Extensions are a cool idea (although I have only used them a few times - but one of these days I will learn how to make them)... etc...

But yes I do agree that Dreamweaver in WYSIWYG mode blows most of the time. I only switch to that mode if I need to edit some text and don't want to scan 1K lines of php/html locating that header....

When I am not using windows (I am a FreeBSD user as well) then I use Kate I think editors that don't have highlighting blow (like notepad - also try running a search and replace on a 50 MB SQL file with notepad - takes 20 minutes if it doesn't crash your system - takes 2 seconds in VIM). You need proper highlighting and search and replace. Otherwise you waste too much time.
But I have used a number of basic text editors:
Kate
Bluefish (I like it, but the php is still buggy)
VIM (looks neat with a semi transparent BG)
PHPEdit (Been a while, but it was buggy as hell when I tried it)

One of these days when I can get Java14 working I'll get PHPEclipse setup, which is supposed to rock.

IDEs that I loathe: Frontpage. Don't ever get suckered into using it professionally.

Golive is bad, you will be turned off by the highly disorganized and cluttered interface alone. Picture all the toolbars of a photoshop with the addition of about 6 tabs of different tools and options. Not to mention it sucks.

I have to disagree. Dreamweaver is a great tool. I think people think the only people who use it, use it for it's WYSIWYG features, which I rarely do. I am a hand coder 99.9% of the time. But there are features of Dreamweaver that I like alot. Site management for one. The replace feature is exceptional. It's stable. Supports alot of languages with very adjustable highlighting. Extensions are a cool idea (although I have only used them a few times - but one of these days I will learn how to make them)... etc...
You've just described Homesite, the software upon which Dreamweaver's code mode was built. It's 1/4 the cost of Dreamweaver. Homesite also integrates with TopStyle Lite/Pro, one of the best CSS style editors ever made.

I've heard great things about VIM and BlueFish. If I ever put a non-Windows partition on my computer, I'll have to check them out!

I've used Homesite (5.0?) I remember liking it. It's been a while though. Don't know much about TopStyle...

VIM is all right. It is a bit of work to learn the modes and commands you can use with it. Kind of like learning to drive on the other side of the road, but it is probably the fastest (next to VI - emacs I don't know as I never use it) it's the fastest editor out there....

Bluefish is great, but I don't think it is quite there yet for php...

I have not tried Quanta yet, which is supposed to be great...

If you ever put a non-windows partition down - I'd recommend FreeBSD over Linux, imo...

I have been using Macromedia HomeSite since back in the day when it was originally a product created by Allaire. I highly recommend using it. I switched over to Macromedia Dreamweaver for a few hours and I really did not like it. It is just my personal opinion but I have always enjoyed HomeSite's more simplified interface that allows me to go straight into what I do, which is hand coding.

I'm sure Dreamweaver has many beneficial features, but I do not have any plans to switch away from HomeSite in the near future. But either way, go Macromedia! :D

Years ago I used to work on front page. But as I learned more and wanted to make more complex things I found Dreamweaver. It took me some time to get used to its way of doing things (I hated it during that period) but when I began to understand the bugger, I found I can accomplish much harder tasks with it.

The use of Dreamweaver naturally brought the need to use Notepad for quick editing when I know what needs to be changed and for the cases when I want to clear the code of useless stuff... :)

Originally posted by G. Antonov The use of Dreamweaver naturally brought the need to use Notepad for quick editing when I know what needs to be changed and for the cases when I want to clear the code of useless stuff... :) [/B]

Why not just drop to code view in DW? Sure is easier to read. Plus there are line numbers and color coding...

As someone said in another thread, if someone takes the time to configure the different 'macros' in Dreamweaver, it is just as good as hand coding, since you are basically just creating your own macros.

Originally posted by Marble
...One of these days when I can get Java14 working I'll get PHPEclipse setup, which is supposed to rock.

IDEs that I loathe: Frontpage. Don't ever get suckered into using it professionally.

You're gonna love PHPEclipse Marble it's absolutely brilliant.

Originally posted by B2Media
As someone said in another thread, if someone takes the time to configure the different 'macros' in Dreamweaver, it is just as good as hand coding, since you are basically just creating your own macros.
Am I wrong to say many text editors allow you to create snippet galleries? I know mine does. All we're describing here are bits of functionality, not addressing the viability of producing pages in visual mode. I suppose if you want to recreate all of the configuration files, then use the visual mode to create your layout, then go into the code and make all of your necessary adjustments for efficiency and accessibility, by all means you can go that route.

Or you can pay much less money (or nothing at all), do it correctly from the beginning, still benefit from many of the time-saving features typically incorporated in WYSINWOPG editors. I'm not big on paying hundreds of dollars for software I have to profoundly reconfigure and/or spend my time fixing every time I use it.

Originally posted by s7ing
You're gonna love PHPEclipse Marble it's absolutely brilliant.

Cool! that is good to hear.
I get a stack dump error when I try to install Java1.4, but I am betting it will get fixed real soon by the port maintainers...

I've just started using Eclipse, but I haven't tried any of the various PHP options available as plugins yet. Yesterday, I removed Sun's Java 1.4 JRE/JDK and replaced it with IBM's. You have to have IBM hardware to run it for some reason, but it's available on Windows and Linux (and AIX, etc...) and executes large apps like Eclipse noticeably faster.

Originally posted by Marble
Why not just drop to code view in DW? Sure is easier to read. Plus there are line numbers and color coding...

Your're right but sometimes I've just spotted a little bug which I can fix faster in Notepad than the time needed for Dreamweaver to load. Also, when you know what exactly you want to change, the code highlighting isn't all that important.

MS FrontPage is the best editor for fast page making

Alex | qesign.com

*shudders*

A contractor that hires me occassionally lives by FP... Trying to do any serverside work on a site built using loads of FP extensions is a nightmare. I must say it works if that is the only editor you will ever use and don't plan on contracting anyone for more advanced scripting.

One thing I did like about it was the GUI for building forms. Very well designed. But again you start relying on FP to handle the work.

In my experience it is not an editor made for professional work. If you are at home building sites that you 100% run and control, then go ahead and use FP... Otherwise find another alternative.

TextPad is the fastest, cleanest way I can make pages.

xhtml and css ones that is

Like someone once said, use the code luke....

lols

Originally posted by qesign
MS FrontPage is the best editor for fast page making

Alex | qesign.com
Spoken like a template reseller.

I have to say I've never used a WYSIWYG editor in my life -- I guess I have decided I don't have the time or inclination to learn yet another software application.

I use notepad exclusively to build high-end e-commerce sites and applications by hand. I've been doing this since 1997 and I would consider myself an expert at all facets of web application development. I certainly get the $$$$ for my expertise, but am I missing all that much? I suppose there would be some time savings in building forms and such, but it really doesn't take that long to build a form by hand.

If I were going to break down and get a WYSIWYG editor - sounds like HomeSite is the way to go for professionals, right?

If I were going to break down and get a WYSIWYG editor - sounds like HomeSite is the way to go for professionals, right?
Homesite is a text-editor - Notepad on steroids.

No offense to the WYSINWOPG editor users out there, but you couldn't pay me use one of those products. It takes me twice as long to produce code half as good. I absolutely agree with you Akyriel. Not only do you save money by not spending it on mostly useless apps, there seems to be some correlation between the ability to hand code and the amount of pay/respect one commands. This may not be the case for many Dreamweaver users, as this is the one WYSINWOPG application that seems to enjoy some degree of professional use, and apparently it can be configured to produce decent markup. But why spend hundreds of dollars to fiddle with software that will never do the job as well as one could by hand anyway?

Again:
Homesite != graphical editor
Homesite == text editor

Originally posted by the_pm
...there seems to be some correlation between the ability to hand code and the amount of pay/respect one commands.

I have found this to be absolutely true. I can't tell you how many new clients have come to me frustrated because they required some feature or programming interface that some hapless WYSIWYG developer couldn't provide (or worse yet, told the client couldn't be done) because there wasn't a button or macro on the WYSIWYG editor he/she was using.

There was another thread on this board from someone distraught about what to charge because they ended up creating a CMS interface for a client who was paying only $200 for a job.

In contrast, I recently finished a very 'simple' e-commerce web site with CMS administration end for $25,000.

I make $$$$$ not because I'm the 'best' - but because I know what I'm doing 'under the hood.'

This is why I'm so loathe to invest in an IDE. Mostly to keep my skills honed. It PAYS off in the end.

Id seriously recommend using TextPad if your hand coding

I cant imagine ever using notepad again

TextPad is teh win