AngelNetworkz.net had a big big mess a few months ago causing all the servers to be pulled and a lot of paypal and cc disputes.

They still ow many people refunds and yet are starting to sell dedicated servers again.

Is this legal ? Can they legaly sell servers after what happened and when thousands have been left without refunds ?

What's not legal about it? It's unethical but all these people that were complaining I highly doubt any of them contacted the authorities over this saga.

Sure can, unless and until the FTC says they must stop they can continue to take advantage of the naive.

Dave

Assuming they had no legal action taken against them or been closed down by the law, sorry don't know their story, then they are allowed to continue.

Well apprently they are using the new server sales profits to refund and pay people off.

so they say :rolleyes:

The only people who have reported refunds are those that had filed complaints with paypal. Those that fell for the lie that if they removed any paypal claim are now stuck.

If it was not for the unethical move of taking the funds from vendors such as jose (cannot think of the name of his business) nobody would have rec'd a dime.

if they are still doing business under the same corporate or partnership shell or as a sole proprietorship, then you can file that claim against them - if they refuse to refund them or to give you service for your payment - you have the option to file fraud charges against them.

you can also get a class action law suit agains them - you will need to find a member of the class to represent everyone.

basically - they can do anything you let them get away with.

But I have to say some clients are a bit silly trying to get a full refund when they used up 28 days out of 30.

One can only assume that they're still in business because nobody went after them. My money says that's what AN was counting on all along.

-B

It's not illegal to do business, but what they have already done (stolen money from many people) is without question.

And coight, you're incorrect, MANY people contacted the authorities. If you have read up on the whole saga you would know there are many complications involved and also this is not something authorities are very likely to care about.

Originally posted by amusive.com
And coight, you're incorrect, MANY people contacted the authorities.

I saw a lot of people talking about it, several people who said they were going to, and of them, I'll bet only a handful ever actually did.

If you have read up on the whole saga you would know there are many complications involved and also this is not something authorities are very likely to care about.

I disagree. The trick is not wasting time contacting the wrong people or outside organizations like the BBB. An organized effort at filing with the NJ attorney general, for example, probably would have gotten the ball rolling. That said, who knows, maybe it is rolling and we just haven't seen it yet..

-B

People have contacted the BBB, the NJ Attorney General, several local law enforcement agencies in the US and Canada, etc. It's pretty slow going though, and ANz doesn't appear to be an established business entity ANYWHERE, and the owner (Donna) refuses to make her registered business name public.

That's a red flag right there.

Also nobody knows if Donna exists. And if she does where she exists at.

Originally posted by 3en
But I have to say some clients are a bit silly trying to get a full refund when they used up 28 days out of 30.

No, it is not silly. AngelNetworkz TOS states, "Your account will be credited 5% of your bill per every 60 minutes your website is down." Two days would be 48 one hour (60 minute) periods. It would only take 20 one hour periods for a client to qualify for a full refund.

Clients are not being unreasonable when they hold a company to the companies stated TOS.

There are 2 things I'm completely tired of hearing about.

#1--The presidential elections

#2--AngelNetworkz

We see it over and over and over again, companies go down, customers get screwed out of money, company vanishes for a few weeks then suddenly they come back and all is forgiven.

Anyone who signs up with a company like this is simply an idiot, especially if they frequent these forums.

I honestly don't know how people fell for their tricks the first time let alone a 2nd.

who has fallen a second time ?

If you can find Donna, there is a case. Otherwise you're out of luck. Next time, make sure the company shows their INC, LLC, DBA info publicly before doing any business.

the other thing you can do is organize a boycott agains the dc that hosts them. get people to send them a lettter and pull more servers than they have at the dc if they dont get rid of them and everytime they move do the same.

that would make it difficult to keep in biz.

Yes, good idea..

However , the ppl on the server will loose out ..

Its a bit like cuting your nose to spite your face.

Has anyone checked to see if Angel Networkz is actually a company?

If they are not a registered limited company, then there is no such thing as a 'bankrupt' business.
Donna is personally responsible for all debts.
If you got in contact with the law, you could take her house if it gets that far.

Originally posted by thomas7
Has anyone checked to see if Angel Networkz is actually a company?

If they are not a registered limited company, then there is no such thing as a 'bankrupt' business.
Donna is personally responsible for all debts.
If you got in contact with the law, you could take her house if it gets that far.

There was extensive research into every aspect of known identities of AN / Donna / staff. Unless you've spent the (most likely) 20 hours reading everything there is to read you may not want to interject comments like that, before the mob swarms & attacks :D

I find the whole situation appalling to say the least. Yes, most likely they are using new clients funds to pay for those open paypal issues remaining, unless they've changed the paypal account to directly to the datacenter they were planning on using. The company hurt the most IMHO was Jose's as it was his paypal account that funds were taken from (or bank account) in order to settle the claims. I'm unsure if Managed.com's was touched or not, as they're not very vocal on the boards. Jose most likely has a grand larceny case on his hands for fraudulent business, and I whole heartedly believe nobody without an open paypal dispute will be refunded. In all my years in this industry, I've never see something so horrible as the AN saga, and hope I never do again.

Thank you,

Matthew McCormick

Originally posted by emilios
who has fallen a second time ? ANz has. Once a year ago and a second time a couple of months ago.

And sagomatt, they're using a PayPal account set up by their DC to collect payments this time around.

What name are they using now? Angelnetworkz still or something different?

Originally posted by auctionSuite
ANz has. Once a year ago and a second time a couple of months ago.

And sagomatt, they're using a PayPal account set up by their DC to collect payments this time around.

who is their dc?

Originally posted by sailor
who is their dc? ColoAlaCarte.com - In other words, Steve Chen is giving ANz the same deals available at Managed.com at a company where Jacques Pham has no influence. According to Donna, she doesn't like Jacques, and he doesn't like her (this was months before the fiasco started), and she always worked with Steve. Jacques was smart in deciding to pull the plugs and try and convert overdue clients to up-to-date clients... Steve believes that ANz should be given another chance (to get himself even more money out of the deal, by using ANz's marketing), but not risk non-payment by Donna (hence, all payments are sent directly to ColoAlaCarte, I believe CAC may send ANz comissions). Here's an idea... boycott RackLogic & ColoAlaCarte.com if you dislike Steve's ethics.

-Josh

Originally posted by VapoRub
If you can find Donna, there is a case. Otherwise you're out of luck.

John Lagaipa, for the millionth time, was the money man. Payments to AN were made through John Lagaipa's paypal account, making him directly liable regardless of who else is/was involved, and regardless of his claims of innocence. He is located in NJ, his address is plastered all over these forums. John Lagaipa is extremely "gettable" - the trail leads directly to him, and he's easy to find. You get him, and you get AN.

-B

How come nobody ever did anything to John LaGaipa?

No1 touched him as no1 is bothered about doing so. It would cost too much to do anything and most ppl just want to get over it.

Secondly, i think you should change your sig.

Donna is not the person you can sue and she started up the .net not .com

:)

There should be some coordinated effort to catch the culprits. I think auctionSuite and Jose of TMS were doing something about it. Maybe they can update us on the issue.

Who told you that ?

If anyone has begun to take legal action, they most likely will not be posting such information on a public chat board. I hope that those wronged can come together to take action against something like this to halt them from doing any further damage down the road.

Thank you,

Matthew McCormick

Originally posted by emilios
Who told you that ?

I was told about it in another thread. They are collecting info from those who are affected. auctionSuite or Jose could shed some more light on the status of the effort.

Pretty slow going right now....At the moment (or "atm" for all the fans of AngelNetworkz) I'm just trying to figure out who has received their refunds.

not me :(

dont think i ever will either

I'm not going to say that it's an impossibility, but just from doing the math it seems as if it's going to be a LOO-O-O-O-O-O-ONG time before everyone will see a refund from ANz by all appearances. If ever.

Between data center deductions, transaction fees and payroll, there doesn't look like there will be much left over from ANz's fees to put towards refunds. I'd also speculate that one of the reasons Steve offered to allow them reseller rights was so that he could skim repayment for past debt from the income on the new servers, which reduces the amount available to repay ex-customers (and Jose).

We shall see, I guess. I've been wrong before....

I think the best thing to do is to start a patition, and then present it to the new DC that AN is reselling from.

The problem with that idea is that ColoAlaCarte (their new DC) is well aware of the situation. I doubt a petition would have much influence.

do they still ofer this one + one free?

Originally posted by Ronikil
do they still ofer this one + one free? No, and I doubt they ever will again.....But then, you never know for sure.

well, we would never have thought that any DC would sell to them, and that AN would ever sell again. And less than a month has gone, and look.

My prediction is that in about 2 months, they will be offering a buy 1 get 4 free.

buy 1 get 8 free (but we will close your servers and will run with your money within month ,so enjoy from all this servers ,as long as you can)

lol. we are joking bout this, but i give it 2 months and there will be another round of 500 post forum topics about AN.

It's Jose i feel sorry for. Basicly the refunds they are issueing is because paypal reversed previous payments.

Angelnetworkz likely can't touch the money until all open disputes are settled. At which time im guessing they will likely have some left over for themselves.

Originally posted by TMX
John Lagaipa, for the millionth time, was the money man. Payments to AN were made through John Lagaipa's paypal account, making him directly liable regardless of who else is/was involved, and regardless of his claims of innocence. He is located in NJ, his address is plastered all over these forums. John Lagaipa is extremely "gettable" - the trail leads directly to him, and he's easy to find. You get him, and you get AN.

-B

I don't seem to see 1,000,000 entries for John Lagaipa :) Well anyways John and Don (na) sounds the same to me.

I know they are using the DC's Paypal address. What about credit cards? Are they collecting the CC info themselves or it is also going through DC?

Whatever it is, i dont think that they can accept the payment like that, on the basis that they are selling the servers. (Even if it is reselling)

Originally posted by 3en
Well apprently they are using the new server sales profits to refund and pay people off.

And Santa Claus really excists ...

Originally posted by thefast
And Santa Claus really excists ...

I knew it !! :D

They are indeed offering BOGO for virtual hosting clients:

Our low monthly fee gives you the most for the least and if you want to save even more money you can sign up for our annual plan and pay for only 6 months (that's 6 months free!).

So, I think they are easing into the business model once again.

Oh, damn....They're offering it on their semi-dedicated sales now too:

Pay yearly and save even more (6 months paid + 6 months free=unbeatable savings!)

One thing to note, and this goes against her current arguments about not having to refund for the "free months": Both of these offers are promoted as "annual" or "yearly", which to me means that you are paying for 12 months of service and should you not receive the full amount of time of service, the refund would be based on proration of 12 months, not six.

Not that you'd necessarily see any refund anyway, but that's beside the point.

If you're foolish enough to patronize this company regardless of their history, at least be smart enough to do a screen capture of the page for future rebuttal of their possible denials.

Well, the one thing to consider now, would be the fact that *if* payments are going direct to the provider, coloalacarte in this case, or as it has been mentioned previous that this is who the payments would be directed towards, is that legally, AN would be an affiliate of coloalacarte. This would mean that they would have to have an address on file in which to submit proper tax records for payment, and verifiable addresses in which to submit payment. So, somebody over at coloalacarte would have to have contact information on AN, which could be a good place to start for tracking them down. Otherwise, if they're not filing proper tax information on affiliates, that could be a big no no with Mr. IRS man :D

Thanks,

Matt

Regardless of their affiliation, if service is interrupted, stopped, or cancelled midway through your paid period, you can probably take action against CALC this time around, since AN is basically a sales person representing them.

JoseQ

Originally posted by VapoRub
I don't seem to see 1,000,000 entries for John Lagaipa :) Well anyways John and Don (na) sounds the same to me.
Yeah, a quick phone search only shows 24 listings for LaGaipa nationwide. If I weren't so bogged down with my current paying work, I'd do a little more investigation.

Originally posted by auctionSuite
One thing to note, and this goes against her current arguments about not having to refund for the "free months": Both of these offers are promoted as "annual" or "yearly", which to me means that you are paying for 12 months of service and should you not receive the full amount of time of service, the refund would be based on proration of 12 months, not six.

Good point. Of course, in six months, those who paid for 12 will find that they are required to pay for the remaining six months, as "free months" will, I'm sure, be "temporarily suspended" again. I wonder what the ratio of free months expected / free months delivered is... I don't see how they can make good on the free months and refunds they owe, let alone pay Jose for the services stolen from him, by continuing to sell below cost.

Of course, if Angelnetworkz had any intention of running an honest business, they would have learned from their previous BOGOF mistake. By running the exact same scam again, it's obvious the intent is to defraud. If anyone signs up and thinks they'll get the year they're paying for, well heheh, they're in for a rude awakening, aren't they?