Let's say you get a spammer, or maybe a fraudulent payment and you kick them off.

If you know the next host they go to, is it legal/ethical/desirable to warn them? :confused:

I wouldn't want to be committing libel (or slander; I always forget which is which) especially when I don't have a hard case against them. But it's ridiculous for frauds/spammers to be able to keep hopping around from host to host every month with many of them not wising up for a few weeks. :uhh:

Originally posted by Lurleene
Let's say you get a spammer, or maybe a fraudulent payment and you kick them off.

If you know the next host they go to, is it legal/ethical/desirable to warn them? :confused:

It would be unethical to not warn their next host.

This isn't libel, they would have quite a hard time proving it, since they are *spammers* :angry:

Id say go for it and warn the new host. If you are in the same industry you know how much it sucks for spammers to victimize your setup.

Warning the next guy is just that.. a warning. Any added help from the outside world is awsome. ;-) Spammers suck!

J:angry:

Originally posted by cyansmoker
It would be unethical to not warn their next host.

exactly... i have an idea, maybe WHT should have a forum for hosts to report ToS abusers and spammers. We spend so much time complaining about hosts, but when do they get to complain about us?

Reporting spammers to their next host would be almost useless, since it is usually almost impossible to find out which host they will pick next. By the time you find out, they probably had sent their spam on the next host already :(.

You can report them at Host Abuse, www.hostabuse.com

Thanks for all your replies. I have warned their next host. (I just looked at their domain nameservers to find out which it was).

Hopefully this particular @$#@# will get caught. Someone else opened a police investigation, and I have info (IP address for starters, heh heh).

What scum; they keep stealing cc's and buying all sorts of stuff... even a listing in the category search in Yahoo (I believe a $200 purchase).

One thing to keep in mind (generally speaking here, not directed at you, Lurleene) when posting this type of information and/or emailing the next host:

Instead of saying, "xyz.com is a spammer", say, "xyz signed up with us and had these three scripts on their site, were sending out 10,000 emails in the first hour, ....."

Instead of saying, "abc.com is a fraud", say, "abc used a credit card with an address in kentucky, but the IP we logged on the sign-up form shows the sign up was from (insert other place)".

In other words, instead of giving your interpretation of the facts involved, just give the facts and let the person on the other end interpret them.

You just need to be sure the host is one you can trust to keep total confidentiality. Otherwise, you may be subject to any of the following:

Legal Action-expensive whether they win or not

Retaliation-through attacks on your company in places like this or through attacks on your servers.

I think it would be easy to add a clause to TOS to prevent just that, like this, "if a customer doesn't follow the rules, the host will have every right to report the abuse to another party, this includes but not limited to: police, FBI, blahblahblah, and other hosting companies." :)

This is why spammers continue to run rampant. Hosts do not do anything to stop them. They are too scared of legal action.

We need to begin taking action against these criminals. We can't expect spamming to stop unless we make the effort.

Besides, when a known child molesters moves into a many neighborhoods in the US, all their neighbors are made aware of that fact by authorities, neighborhood/city groups etc... They do this so people can protect themselves and make decisions to help protect their families.

It should be the same with spammers. As host we have the right to know that someone is a spammer and we should have the right to notify other parties of this fact.

Fellow hosts... I have a dream... Just kidding...

Thoughts...

Molesting children is illegal, however sending mass emails (while highly irritating and prohibited on most networks) isn't for the most part, (as far as I know). Even if a person commits a crime, there are limitations as to what you can do. Going even further, even if you hired an employee that was terrible, you may not be able to pass that information on to the next inquiring employer (if they list you as a reference). It is surprising to know what can and cannot be said (overall, for many issues, not just spammers).

I would venture to say most spam is fraudulent (or a significant portion is anyway), and that is illegal. So, true, the act of spamming isn't illegal, but if used to commit fraud, then that spammer is committing an illegal act. THerefore, I huess it would depend on the spam being sent out.

Patrick

Originally posted by Lurleene
What scum; they keep stealing cc's and buying all sorts of stuff... even a listing in the category search in Yahoo (I believe a $200 purchase). [/B]

Then probably you don't know who's the real person doing the spamming since the hosting services he's purchasing are surely done using the stolen cards and fabricated names.. but if you think you do know who they are (try looking at their logs to find their IP maybe) report them to authorities right away!

Originally posted by hostmaniac


Then probably you don't know who's the real person doing the spamming since the hosting services he's purchasing are surely done using the stolen cards and fabricated names.. but if you think you do know who they are (try looking at their logs to find their IP maybe) report them to authorities right away!

If a spammer sells tangible goods, you can easily track him down by looking at the spam messages. But more often you cannot just report them, they might live in another country and there is nothing we can do about that. :(

Spammers....did someone say spammers? I hate the SOBs. Round them all up and send them to Afganistan I say!!!:angry: :D

I saw this thread is still alive, so I thought I'd update.

I don't know the identity of this person. I have talked to one of the people whose cc he stole over the phone. I've seized the domain name, as well (it was registered through us). Maybe I'll sell it on eBay or something to cover the expense. Later.

I've run a trace on the IP address and it puts our lovely friend in or near Atlanta. He has been reported to the authorities, and hopefully they'll catch him (or her). This was actually my first real experience with a fraud, and certainly won't be my last. :mad:

wow. My spammer was from Georgia as well...

Too bad we couldn't form an association, just like a homeowners association, but for hosts to help/advise/protect each other.
If it was voluntary, it shouldn't generate much legal trouble if we just gave info/advise for the other take with as a grain of salt.

AH

Originally posted by RobWalker
Spammers....did someone say spammers? I hate the SOBs. Round them all up and send them to Afganistan I say!!!:angry: :D

What a fine , sensible statement..

We all hate SPAM and most do what they can to block it, but unfortunately, as with a few spamcop groups, you are an embarrassment to those who actually have to deal with it..

Join a sporting team where you will do less harm..


Lurleene..

Yes it is ethical to warn the next host.. it may be too late, but then again it may not, and it will maybe save them a lot of work, not to mention saving a bunch of people from getting more crap in their mail box..

Most hosts would appreciate the heads up..