Hey all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. And I break my slience today for a good reason. Spamming. More specifically, a person who spammed me on ICQ.

Your asking, WTF does this have to do with WHT and the wonderful members that this site has? Well, it was a competitor to WHT (if you can call it competition) asking me, a lurker of all people, to join his forum.

HostingDiscussions.com was the website he was trying to get me to join. I am reluctant to post it here, for fear he just might get more visitors out of this.

Usually, such spam doesn't bother me. But when it comes from someone who got my info from a forum I lurk at (and I lurk twice a day, point people here, so an active lurker :) ), then spammed me on ICQ to go to a competitors forum, a forum he owns, none the less, that just pisses me off.

This post was originally going to be a 'warning' post about this guy, but when he called me a terrorist, the pushed me over the edge. And it's the reason teh chat log is posted below.

His ICQ# is 59595359. Please do not yell at him, or do anything to him. As much as I would like that now, it's not the right thing to do. Just put him on your ignore list.

Anyways, here is the chat log. ANd I apologize if this is too much of a flame. I'll re-read the thread with comments and make changes if needed.

Session Start (ICQ - 92421903:59595359): Wed Jan 23 09:23:57 2002
[09:23:57] 59595359: Hi

Would you mind if I'd ask you a question? :)
[09:34:17] Tony [WA]: Sorry, I was away.

And sure.
[09:34:25] 59595359: Well I noticed you participate at WHT, that is correct right?
[09:35:01] Tony [WA]: I lurk, yes.
[09:35:12] 59595359: Well...

I've recently reopened my hosting forums

would you care to join? :)

sorry if I bother you :S
[09:39:42] Tony [WA]: why should I?
[09:40:03] 59595359: well it was just a question...
maybe you were interested?
[09:40:16] Tony [WA]: The question is, why should I be interested?
[09:40:34] 59595359: well i dont know

cause maybe you are interested in the topic internet & hosting (in particular)?
[09:41:51] Tony [WA]: That's why I'[m a member at WHT. The premier site for such talk.

The question is, why should I join your rip-off of a site? Especially when the owner just spammed me on ICQ from getting me profile at WHT, his competitor.

That is shotty business practice, if I do say so myself.
[09:43:13] 59595359: nm then

it is a site i have for fun

you could have just said no,
that would have just done the trick

I apologize I bothered you.
Bye
[09:44:01] Tony [WA]: Seems to me you just made yourself flamebait. The question for myself is, where do I release the flame?

Usenet? Or even better, WHT itself?

I think I'll go post on WHT.

ANd thank you for wasting my time. Want me to go to your site and having no good reason for me to do so.

Stupid, stupid webmaster. Shame!
[09:44:49] 59595359: Seems to me you just made yourself flamebait. The question for myself is, where do I release the flame?

LoL

are you really doing that?
Doing that will not get you any respect at all on the forums!
Dont you know they all look at flamers as unprofessional people?
[09:45:36] 59595359: I asked you if I could ask you a question, you said yes,
I asked you if you were interested,
you werent...

so ok, I stop then... I was very kind....
So why flame?
[09:47:24] Tony [WA]: Why flame? Simple. To let people know what type of site you run, and what your practices are.

To flame means: "to lash out at someone online". It does not mean that I cannot use proper english, grammar, and put it in such a way that comes off as highly irratated, but not a flamekiddie.
[09:47:55] 59595359: But again, I apologize...

I was hoping I would get a human respondse to this,
obviously all you are interested in is start a flaming.
Do what you have to do, I won't stop you,

Please be rational... think for a second, what is in it for you? NOTHING....
Then again, if it makes you feel PROUD... please do so.... But then again, ask yourself the following question
[09:48:20] 59595359: if a flaming makes me proud, what is the meaning of my existance? if picking at other people makes you proud....
wow, you must me a REALLY nice person now... with a REALLY well respected business....


[09:49:51] Tony [WA]: The question you ask, being, what is in it for me? The answer is, spreading the word about you.

What is in it for the other members there? Learning about you.

What is in it for you? Losing visitors.

Seems to all balance out.
[09:50:48] 59595359: LoL

go ahead....
Gosh... I am not even going to spend more time on you....
This just is plain pathetic...
I asked you NICELY,
and this is how you respond?

geez... I apologized many times, and will do so again... why dont you accept an apology?
[09:53:06] Tony [WA]: I do not get 'proud' of such things.
I will be posting this on WHT, and yes, the member will read it, and yes, they will know about your practices.
[09:53:51] 59595359: Ok, what if I was to kindly ask you not to and I would apologize again?

Would that work?
Lets solve this as 2 adults here...

I dont make any profit of my site... OK? I am just a student....
[09:54:29] Tony [WA]: Then you have nothing to lose except visitors. Visitors who might like to know about your practices.
[09:55:20] 59595359: is that what you want?
bringing bad things to others?

thats what terrorists did .... do people like them? nah....

Come on now, I SAID I WAS SORRY

geez
[10:00:57] Tony [WA]: It is you who has brought this upon himself.

As for your terrorist analogy, I *really* take offense to that. I lost 3 friends at the WTC.

But, since you seem to have already used the analogy, let me use it on you. You 'hijacked' my ICQ by sending me a message. You 'crashed' your website into my message window, and now I'm 'bombing' you from my 'base' at WHT.
[10:01:48] Tony [WA]: I have nothing further to say. This log will be up on WHT within the hour.

Good day.
[10:01:23] Tony [WA] added 59595359 to ignore list.

Ugh another flame...

Come on now kids stop fighting now... :D

Hey anon_tester, I cant see him calling you a terrorist.. He just refers to hate that terrorists use... And also, I consider him to be kind?? or is that just me? :confused: :cool: I mean, he asked you nicely and you immediately start spitting fire at him :confused:

Ok, he should not have contacted you, but he asked you nicely if he could ask you a question and he NEVER mentioned the URL (how did you get it then?)

anon_tester, just leave him alone... I see you're pretty young (profile) and have a lot to learn... People will contact you all the time, asking you for stuff, and trust me, they WONT be as nice as this guy, they will just TELL you to buy the stuff, asking is no longer an option! LoL (e.g. phone companies :D lol they drive us nuts here)

No verdict... Just my $0.02... I think we all have better things to do then flame now heh... Cause that I must agree on, flaming, and pointing at what OTHERS do wrong, is not really going to help you here... Instead of trying to change the world and the bad people (him in your oppinion), try checking with yourself first... (I know there is a saying for that, but forgot, anyone remember?) Why such an aggressive responds when he talks in a very kind tone? I think that is what he means with the terrorists or whatever, not sure... I think he means the aggression or something... Not sure though...

Just my $0.02... Hope you agree with me...

Sorry to hear about your loss (WTC), good luck!!

WHOIS Result on HOSTINGDISCUSSIONS.COM
--snip--
NS1.HOSTINGDISCUSSIONS.COM 208.21.44.91
NS2.HOSTINGDISCUSSIONS.COM 208.21.44.92
--snip--

WHOIS Result on HYPERNATIC.NET
--snip--
NS1.HYPERNATIC.NET 208.21.44.91
NS2.HYPERNATIC.NET 208.21.44.92
--snip--

hostingdiscussions.com tracroutes to 208.21.44.93.
hypernatic.net tracroutes to 208.21.44.90.

Could you have mentioned that your opinion might be biased in your post due to this relationship with the site in question? (not a flame, a serious question). Also, are you the same person? It has been awhile since i've seen a person use the word 'kind' as much as you did, and the spammer. (again, serious question, not meant to be a flame)


Now, for a direct response to your post:

Please do not talk down to me due to my age. I have been online since 1993, have run over 50 web sites, and have sysadmined 5 servers. I am in no way saying I am superior to you, or anyone else. I am simply stating that I have a lot of experience on the topic.

As for other people asking for stuff, California has this nice little law. You tell a telemarketer to stop calling, and they have to stop calling. If they call back, you can sue them for $1500 per additional call. This little law has netted me $5000 in the past 2 years, each time settling out of court for the money. I know how to handle rude people and companies.

And as for the spammer, I asked him a series of questions, none of which he had a response for. Yes, I got more hostile with each round. Yes, it was intentional. I like pressuring spammers like this. Will he think twice before doing this again? Probably.

As for the terrorist thing, I believe my analogy in the log points my views out fairly clear.

And the URL, it was in his profile before he decided to edit it.

I host his site temporarily yes...
In no way related... Don't gain anything from it no... As you can see no ads on his site or whatever... Then again, it's just that I agree with him on some points

and then again, with you on some points.

I find him right when he says that you should not have started that way,

I find you to be right if you say he shouldnt have spammed... I'm sure that was not his intention or so, but still, he shouldn't have bothered you...

Hope that clears things up for you...
Don't be so easily offended, I am not saying you are dumb, but I am saying as it comes down to "knowledge of people" you still have a lot to learn... There is nothing bad about that, I still learn every day, and you're only 19 (mean that in a non-negative way!!) so dont worry :)

I'd just say, leave the dude for what it is :)
Don't bother :D

I've got an idea...
Don't post your contact information in your profile if you don't want people to use it!

I don't see anything wrong with him contacting you about his site. Instead of YOU flaming him, you could have simply said no thanks, please don't bother me again. He was nothing but polite, and was ready to close his window and never talk to you again.

He was absolutely right, and you are behaving like a child. Grow up. Take your flames elsewhere.

-Dan

I think you over reacted. He wasn't after your money, it seems more of a hobby rather than commercial venture, and he was even happy to leave you alone very early, but you kept at it with the flame thrower. The only reason it got passed half a dozen odd messages was because you persisted.

As serve-you said, if you would prefer others not to contact you by ICQ, a good idea would be to not put your ICQ number in your profile. Being on a web hosting board, it seems reasonable that he would contact you about another that you may be interested in, in my opinion, as long as he's polite and doesn't try to pressure you into it. I honestly think there's a big difference between a cold call from someone setting up their own interest web site and a commercial business shooting ridiculous marketing jargon at you.

anon_tester, I think you are overreacting. Just drop it. I see people on usenet abusing each other like this all the time, just because somebody asked a question that is "slighty" off-topic. It's not worth it. Spend your energy going after the real spammers and crackers.

> I host his site temporarily yes...

The whois record is very very suspicious though I agree.

Well all I have to say is that even if there is another copycat site..its another chance to get our services out to people....his site is small and he is just trying to find some people to help make it work...he makes no money, atleast I dont think he does so I don't see a problem in his site...although he should have sent an email instead of ICQ..thats like a door to door salesman, it is anoying to have someone IM or whatever you when you don't want them to but you really let him have it!:uzi:....but whats up w/ the WHOIS info, thats odd!???

By the way anon_tester sorry about your loss in the WTC.

Originally posted by Skeptical
> I host his site temporarily yes...

The whois record is very very suspicious though I agree.

I completely agree Skeptical... But then again... I can't help it that this is the thruth... But I agree this might look a little suspicious...
Cant help it :)

I personally don't like to be spammed. But I dont see anything wrong with belonging to different forums. I dont see them as "competition" for one another, rather as compliments. I see familar names from webhostdir in here :)

You probably should have let it go Anon

Personally, I'm much too busy to be bothered by IM Spam or IM Cold Calls either one.
That's why I removed my IM information from my profile here.
It's pretty annoying to be busy working on something and have someone instant message you about something you didn't ask about.
As for anon_tester; I don't blame him for being upset and informing us.
I think, if someone is to use this forum, they should adhere to the rules; which in no uncertain terms say things like, "We enforce a very strict policy regarding solicitation of our membership by Forum participants except in those Forum sections where advertising is expressly permitted." and ". . . .Our userbase is not a resource to be "mined" by individuals, groups, or businesses.."

As for the whois information . . . . . . . . . . .

Odd how these days spam's become something that's used to describe a single point of contact from anyone, rather than it's correct designation as bulk unsolicited e-mail.

I get contacted on this board either directly, or via e-mail mentioning this board all the time. A large percentage of it is similar to the ICQ chat in question, and 99 times out of 100 I'm far from interested. That's exactly what I tell them...

"Sorry, I'm not interested. Bye"

The odd one that keeps going gets this:

"Please refer to the last post. Bye."

And that's the end of it. As everyone posting so far seems to agree, the 'victim' did little more than prolong the conversation. Don't want to chat about something? Then just don't chat about it.

Life's too short to be angry about the small things...

Greg Moore

Are N/A whois records allowed??? Whois record last updated 23rd Jan. very supicious.

well if you just P***ed off somone and told the a bunch of people would you hide your personal information? come on...he doesn't want to be harrased by hundreds of people.

Originally posted by MattF
Are N/A whois records allowed??? Whois record last updated 23rd Jan. very supicious.

Sorry guys but it aint me... :eek:

Record last updated on 23-Jan-2002

MattF, sometimes this also happens when OpenSRS does a database rebuild. Someone told me that, not sure if its true though... can anyone confirm? Any OpenSRS expert here?

Originally posted by onthecatwalk
well if you just P***ed off somone and told the a bunch of people would you hide your personal information? come on...he doesn't want to be harrased by hundreds of people. You mean he doesn't want any unsolicited IMs?

:D

Originally posted by onthecatwalk
well if you just P***ed off somone and told the a bunch of people would you hide your personal information? come on...he doesn't want to be harrased by hundreds of people.

Of if you plan on ICQ spamming people you'd like to prepare yourself so others can't harass you back. ;)

:homer: YA! LOL...Or He Doesn't Want Any Unsolicited IM's

:laugh:

I've checked a few whois records hosted by opensrs.org for similar update dates, none appeared, very stange that this "N/A" whois record was updated yesterday. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just very supicious of an N/A whois record anyway.

Well, anyways, who ever is found to be mining our database will be blocked from WebHostingTalk and censored indefinitely. Try and get the IP for the user next time and we can cross reference, there are a few ICQ hacks I believe that reveal the IP. Of course there are other methods to catch people out too.

Nothing worse than unsolicited crap, I hate the ICQ prono-bots and instant messages which links to auctions (without a description) that you're not even interested in. etc.. etc..

me being me went ahead and asked him about his suspiciouse WHOIS and he sad he didn't want to be bothered by people. I can understand that...if its allowed, thats another question..oh well! :)

Originally posted by MattF
. . . . . . who ever is found to be mining our database will be blocked from WebHostingTalk and censored indefinitely. . . . . .Can't find nothing to argue about there. :rolleyes:
Does that mean it's safe to update my profile with my IM information back?
I, for one, am all in favor of, "If you don't like the rules here; go somewhere else."

Originally posted by MattF
I've checked a few whois records hosted by opensrs.org for similar update dates, none appeared, very stange that this "N/A" whois record was updated yesterday. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just very supicious of an N/A whois record anyway.

Well, anyways, who ever is found to be mining our database will be blocked from WebHostingTalk and censored indefinitely. Try and get the IP for the user next time and we can cross reference, there are a few ICQ hacks I believe that reveal the IP. Of course there are other methods to catch people out too.

Nothing worse than unsolicited crap, I hate the ICQ prono-bots and instant messages which links to auctions (without a description) that you're not even interested in. etc.. etc..

MattF, that is illegal by both ICQ's policy and by some laws...

Originally posted by hypernatic.net
Ugh another flame...

Come on now kids stop fighting now... :D

Hey anon_tester, I cant see him calling you a terrorist.. He just refers to hate that terrorists use... And also, I consider him to be kind?? or is that just me? :confused: :cool: I mean, he asked you nicely and you immediately start spitting fire at him :confused:

Ok, he should not have contacted you, but he asked you nicely if he could ask you a question and he NEVER mentioned the URL (how did you get it then?)

anon_tester, just leave him alone... I see you're pretty young (profile) and have a lot to learn... People will contact you all the time, asking you for stuff, and trust me, they WONT be as nice as this guy, they will just TELL you to buy the stuff, asking is no longer an option! LoL (e.g. phone companies :D lol they drive us nuts here)

No verdict... Just my $0.02... I think we all have better things to do then flame now heh... Cause that I must agree on, flaming, and pointing at what OTHERS do wrong, is not really going to help you here... Instead of trying to change the world and the bad people (him in your oppinion), try checking with yourself first... (I know there is a saying for that, but forgot, anyone remember?) Why such an aggressive responds when he talks in a very kind tone? I think that is what he means with the terrorists or whatever, not sure... I think he means the aggression or something... Not sure though...

Just my $0.02... Hope you agree with me...

Sorry to hear about your loss (WTC), good luck!! If you had introduced yourself as the host of this person before going on about how immature anon_tester was, I would have given your post much more weight. But, the manner and speed at which you attempt to discredit the original poster, leads many to wonder. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by SoftWareRevue
If you had introduced yourself as the host of this person before going on about how immature anon_tester was, I would have given your post much more weight. But, the manner and speed at which you attempt to discredit the original poster, leads many to wonder. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: I said it was not a verdict, just what i thought, and it seems that many others agree, that anon_tester was a little to impatient...
Look, that I host someone, does not make me someone, personally, I think this has gone far enough... Now _I_ get accused of things... which is a thing I certainly do not want... :eek:
Please do not associate me with spammers, or anonymous people, for I personally fight spam every day (them then F****ing emails)....

Ah well, still... Like I said:
*) anon_tester should have been a little more polite / patient
*) The "icq-dude" shouldnt have browsed the WHT database and should not have contacted anon_tester...

That's all I said.... Does THAT make me look weird? :eek:

Does THAT make me look weird?


Nah. :stickout maybe disclose he's your client earlier next time.

I presume you know the identity of the person you are hosting, please pass a message onto him that mining of WebHostingTalk database is strictly prohibited.

Originally posted by MattF


Nah. :stickout maybe disclose he's your client earlier next time.

I presume you know the identity of the person you are hosting, please pass a message onto him that mining of WebHostingTalk database is strictly prohibited.

Already did. I talked to him on the phone after I read anon_testers post. I always like to hear from the people themselves instead of just assuming that what the other says is the thruth... He seemed very reasonable though... :confused:

Let me know next time someone does this of me, I will take action, no biggie...

But I STILL feel that the way this all went aint the way I, and I think many others, would have handled it...

Originally posted by hypernatic.net


Already did. I talked to him on the phone after I read anon_testers post. I always like to hear from the people themselves instead of just assuming that what the other says is the thruth... He seemed very reasonable though... :confused:

Let me know next time someone does this of me, I will take action, no biggie...

But I STILL feel that the way this all went aint the way I, and I think many others, would have handled it... That's your opinion.
Here's mine.
I may have done the exact same thing as anon_testers.
So, while you're attempting to belittle him; I feel you are doing the same to me.
You keep referring to anon_testers as being young and, therefore, not understanding people.
I am fifty years old (:bawling: )
Maybe I need to take some courses too.