There seem more and more of these. Designers and programmers who really dun know what they are doing and just take a job. I have designers who dun know what is an ftp program. Who dun know u need to code html, a JPEG file is not an Internet friendly file. I have programmers who dun know a form requires more than just the form tags. That u cant just download a database and expect your html page to know how to call them up. This is crazy. What they know how to do is tell the owner to look for us to troubleshoot their problems......I have to ask the owners , u pay them for programming or u pay us?

Well, I have a feeling the market is very similar to the hosting market. You really get what you pay for.

For designers always ask to see a portfolio of works that they have done personally. Ask some technical questions regarding how they plan on slicing the interface up when finished, etc etc.

For programmers ask to see work they have completed or have been a part of. Make sure you agree with the languages they will be using (i.e. only using javascript to generate a dynamic site won't cut it).

You should be able to weed people out that way. Don't give them any money until you are satisfied that they will be able to do the job.

Peter

Originally posted by e12pilot
Well, I have a feeling the market is very similar to the hosting market. You really get what you pay for.

For designers always ask to see a portfolio of works that they have done personally. Ask some technical questions regarding how they plan on slicing the interface up when finished, etc etc.

For programmers ask to see work they have completed or have been a part of. Make sure you agree with the languages they will be using (i.e. only using javascript to generate a dynamic site won't cut it).

You should be able to weed people out that way. Don't give them any money until you are satisfied that they will be able to do the job.

Peter

Doesn't always work this way as smooth as you might want. I work with designers and developers every day, looking for new ones and weeding out incompetent constantly, so I have an idea of most tricks they can pull.

Trick #1. My portfolio isn't ready yet, I'm only starting, please give me the job. - the easiest one to deal with. At least the guy is honest and doesn't tell you he designed gap.com :) May be well worth your time, give him a test job if he really insists.

Trick #2. I am (we are) redesigning our web site with portfolio, it'll be up in couple of days. But if you really insist - here are some of the samples we've done. - Don't buy this yet. This could be true, but real designer/developer (or company) will not put their web site down (no matter how bad) for two days. Give them somehting to test their skills, but I woudn't really go for this. Also - check references and see if the samples provided aren't stolen from anywhere else (yeah, things happen).

Trick #3 We are the best design company you can find. Companies have paid thousands for our services. - Maybe they did, but you don't have thousands to spend on a fraud, so check references or give them something to test their skills on. If the portfolio consists of five VERY good web sites and the studio claims they have been around for years - don't buy it. Most likely other works are so ugly, that are not worthy to even being mentioned in portfolio.

Trick #4 You don't own my work! - You pick the team, send them the specs they start developing, you even like the way it goes. But when you take a look at the code you notice it has been coded by Zend/has GPL copyrights/parts of other system's code. The hardest part to deal is with is Zend idea - programmers start complaining that it's their proprietory code and you have to pay additionally to own copyright to the code. I had this experience once, I gave programmers one day to decide - either they will abandon this idea or they abandon the project. Somehow they decided to get paid instead of get laid off :) Moral is simple - you own what you pay for, at least in such cases of design/development of web sites, so designers/developers must adhere to your rules. Ofcourse, you must adhere to rules of copyright laws, in turn :)

Trick #5 This wasn't in specs! - During any work on a web site (and it may take up to several months for a complex web site), some things are destined to change. Maybe client decided to change that pink color to something more professional. Maybe they need one more link on a front page. Whatever that change is - your designer/programmer starts complaining that it wasn't in specs, so he either not going to do it, or there will be an additional charge for it. It's the most complicated situation, since this usually occurs in the middle of the development, when you can't just let the guy go and start from the scratch. Apparently, there is no "rule of thumb" here, but you can steer clear of too detail oriented designers/developers in the future or whenever you hire make sure you mention such things as ongoing changes and make sure designer/developer is okay with that. Ofcourse, if the change is conceptual (like changing the style of the menu, or adding a new functionality to web site) then you have to charge the client for it and then pass the buck to designer/developer, which may make them more acceptable to changes in the project.

Hope this was a bit helpful.

Originally posted by boonchuan
There seem more and more of these. Designers and programmers who really dun know what they are doing and just take a job. I have designers who dun know what is an ftp program. Who dun know u need to code html, a JPEG file is not an Internet friendly file. I have programmers who dun know a form requires more than just the form tags. That u cant just download a database and expect your html page to know how to call them up. This is crazy. What they know how to do is tell the owner to look for us to troubleshoot their problems......I have to ask the owners , u pay them for programming or u pay us?

I find it amusing that he's complaining about amateur (insert thing here) but yet his post is written in "aol speak" with spellings and abreviations that my little sister uses on AIM.

My experience with beginner designers is that some of them may not have any coding sense but may be good on graphics design and very creative. Anyone who is is creative in some way can contribute to your project...the question is are you willing to pay them over someone who can do it all.

I find it amusing that he's complaining about amateur (insert thing here) but yet his post is written in "aol speak" with spellings and abreviations that my little sister uses on AIM.


Let me solve this :P We type and sometimes speak like this here (our country) and are always plagued by what we call Singlish. It sometimes even gets to the best of us.

My experience with beginner designers is that some of them may not have any coding sense but may be good on graphics design and very creative. Anyone who is is creative in some way can contribute to your project...the question is are you willing to pay them over someone who can do it all.

They just don't understand that whats good to read for man is not whats good for a server :P Too much tabs, spaces and other stuff.

Originally posted by haxtheplanet
I find it amusing that he's complaining about amateur (insert thing here) but yet his post is written in "aol speak" with spellings and abreviations that my little sister uses on AIM.

The OP's native language is not English obviously. Let's see how you fair in Singapore speaking their other languages like Mandarin, Malay and Tamil ? The thread is to discuss issues with designers/prog, not his ability or grasp of the English language. I understood him/her just fine.

Back on topic, when shopping for a designer or programmer, people really should find previous clients and ask them directly how the process went. This will give you a good idea on what to expect.

I wasnt talking about his english skills, I was talking about using "dun" instead of typing out "don't" and "u" instead of typing out "you". I just found it ironic that he's complaining about inexperienced designers when the post sounds like something from an aol chatroom.

It's more Singlish than AOL kiddie write. The language is quite mixed over in Singapore.

Funny discussion on the language aspects, though I rather have some liberty to be able to write with not that much formality in forums. How about going back to the discussion proper rather than language? Or maybe we can have a Web Hosting Language Section?

My site is not developed yet but I produce quality work. I don't try and sell everything I make, I don't offer my services to everyone who is looking for someone. I just go with the flow and if I need cash then I take a job. My site is being created, just getting there sloly but surely. Design is done, just no content.

Sori not all amatuer programmers and designers. Some r fantastic in their work and can give established companies a run for their money. Just that there are a few bad hats who simply push everything and anything to the host.

Jpeg is not an internet friendly file? Wasn't Jpeg invented FOR the internet?

Yeap, but u wont expect to ftp in a jpeg file into your web server and get a fully functional HTML file in return, would u?

Hi Boon Chuan,

Anyone can call himself or herself a programmer, web developer or whatever. Sure some websites are messed up. But this may be good for your business since customers look to you to save them!

On the language front, it might be good to type Queen's English (or something near it at least) even when you are just ranting. I speak Singlish all the time but still could not really understand your thread opening post.

: )

SOrri was quite angry when I first type the post. God Save The Queen hehe.

Not actually good for my biz, my side is purely hosting. Such "designers" and "programmers" are a nuisance and a drain on our support resources. They tend to bad mouth to their clients putting the blame on us. Tough to get some clients to understand also. Either they choose not to understand in the hope that we solve the issue for them so they dun have to pay or otherwise. But I have seen a lot who "choose" not to understand.

I am a web designer/developer myself. I currently don't have a portfolio online, but I do have a site and am working on one...But, I have many projects and clients constantly on the go. If a client requests, I usually send 5 - 10 samples of my recent work. Most of the time, it's not an issue for me. Most of my clients are through a larger scale company that I work for, rather than through my freelance business.

I'm also a designer and developer, and trust me I've dealt with people who've tried making an entire website in Adobe Photoshop. I've never heard of a "designer for hire" or freelancer who's done such a thing, I think it's your fault if that happens because you didn't go through the correct screening process in the first place.

Sorri I am the web hosting company, how do I screen my client's designer?