As a beginner I'm wanting to know what you all look for when hiring a designer. What is ideal and what is acceptable. Knowing this will hopefully make me a better designer hearing from you all who are experts.

Thanks!
2click

decent portfolio (at least 2-3 prev. clients), attention to web standards (valid html, use of css instead of tables for layout).

and of course i have to like your design sense which i will judge based on your porfolio.

In addition to seeing a portfolio, I would want at least one or two references to talk to and see what kind of person this designer is! Looking at a portfolio is great but is what he/she is showing you actual live sites or something he/she cooked up in Photoshop one night for impression sake.

Ask to see a live site or two with his/her design in it and then talk to the site owner. The site may look great but did it take the designer six months to complete something that should have taken a couple of days?

Finally, don't pay for anything up front unless you know the designer or the company he/she works for is reputable. The last thing you want is to shell out a bunch of money and never hear from the designer again.

I guess portfolio is the most essential .
In addition it is good to know prices you charged people from your portfolio.

10+ websites with high accessibility and usability as well as a few "artsty" type sites that aren't necessarily as accessible to the masses. A few previous clients besides yourself. Very good at working with a team.

Portfolio, good designs that are not bulky but simple. Also, mature people.

comunication skills .. designing is about comunicating.
usability versus looks .. balance is the key
and finally .. speed.

1. Knows the 10 main elements and principles of Art and Design (seperates the wheat from the chaff).

2. Works professionally with clients that move products (especially offline).

3. Runs an outfit like a business, not like a hax0r.

4. Can discuss the layout in terms that are real, and not trying to be what they're not using terms like "whitespace" and have no clue what it means, for example.

5. Charges rates of the pros, when they're not pros to justify their asking price.

Recently I consulted with a top grade design firm (we're talking ART for web sites), one page design and banner was quoted for $250. Considering the firm's portfolio, and level of precision (I swore it was artwork from a coffee table book), the price was fair.

For those who don't know, you judge quality by the 1# rule above. If the person or firm follows those rules they are trained artists who know how to produce quality product. Eye candy can't hide the basic laws that govern good art work.

Chris

Originally posted by Verilium
Finally, don't pay for anything up front unless you know the designer or the company he/she works for is reputable. The last thing you want is to shell out a bunch of money and never hear from the designer again.

You're looking for a designer as a 'pro' would do. However why don't seal the deal as a 'pro' then? Just send eachothers contracts and terms of service etc and both sign and mail (no digital mail). That way you know what you can expect and you know when you or the designer is crossing the line. Besides that you're administration needs to have the signed papers as well, how else can the designer pay the tax and you get your 19% (or whatever it is in the states) back?

I would look for a good sense of design and atleast some sort of experience (live sites, etc.).

Portfolio is really important.

Certificate, bachelors, degrees and diplomas etc are not needed but for the real jobs - yes.

Originally posted by ChrisLM2001a
1. Knows the 10 main elements and principles of Art and Design (seperates the wheat from the chaff).

For those who don't know, you judge quality by the 1# rule above. If the person or firm follows those rules they are trained artists who know how to produce quality product. Eye candy can't hide the basic laws that govern good art work.

Art and design cannot be simplified into 10 rules. Sorry, but that's total rubbish.

Other than that you make some excellent points.

A decent portfolio, and a few refrences are good in general.

Their work must be very important to them, then if you have that the rest will fall into place. So a designer who is devoted to what he does and it shows in their work.

somone who meets deadlines, good designs, fair prices, puts effort into his work, and of course he's gotta be good at what he does!

Originally posted by inimino
Art and design cannot be simplified into 10 rules. Sorry, but that's total rubbish.

Other than that you make some excellent points.

If the artist doesn't know them, s/he's not a experienced artist (and if you're paying good rates, you require experience in the field). Learning those rules shows that the artist can produce work that meets the expectations of clients, as they're not limited to just a certain style they're familiar with.

Chris

Originally posted by ChrisLM2001a
If the artist doesn't know them, s/he's not a experienced artist (and if you're paying good rates, you require experience in the field). Learning those rules shows that the artist can produce work that meets the expectations of clients, as they're not limited to just a certain style they're familiar with.

Chris

Artistic talent isn't like biology. There's more to it then memorizing facts. You can study art your whole life and still suck at it.

Asking someone if they know some list of rules to see if they are a talented designer is like asking a mechanic what kind of music he likes to see how much he knows about cars.

What is this magical list anyway? I've never heard of it.

Originally posted by inimino
Artistic talent isn't like biology. There's more to it then memorizing facts. You can study art your whole life and still suck at it.

Asking someone if they know some list of rules to see if they are a talented designer is like asking a mechanic what kind of music he likes to see how much he knows about cars.

What is this magical list anyway? I've never heard of it.

Actually it's like asking a mechanic if he knows what parts to add or take out of a vehicle, and how to put them back together to make a whole car again.

That "magical list" is one of the first lessons art students learn.

BTW, are you familiar with Primitive Art (for example, Grandma Moses paintings)? If so, tell me via those 10 basic elements and principles why are they appealing?

Art IS a science, from the flow of Michangelo's works, to physics of perspective. There's more to it than what some program can produce, or what eye candy can be thrown up. There's underling priniciples and elements that's essential to make good artwork. It's why there's but a few Michangelos and so many copycats.

Chris

Originally posted by ChrisLM2001a
That "magical list" is one of the first lessons art students learn.

I think you may be confusing "college art students" with "artists."

The overlap between those groups is often overestimated, particularly by members of the former.

I'm familiar with Primitive Art and I think I could explain why it is appealing, and to whom, even though I've never heard of your "ten basic elements and principles."

Some people need to make lists and lay things out in an orderly fashion, to mimic the abilities that a few people have innately. If you've memorized a list that helps you think about art, thats great, but please, don't act as if somehow every artist who is worth something must have that same list. Many of the greatest artists are utterly incapable of talking coherently about art at all. Some of the more articulate would be able to explain why this idea is absurd much better than I can.

None of those great artists suffered from the lack of those 10 elements and principles of Art and Design though. They knew them by heart, as a sysadmin knows command strings.

That's what seperates the wheat from the chaff, from the experienced from the amateur. In a market where anyone can basically call themselves an "expert", web hosts need to know if what they're hiring is indeed an expert, or an amateur trying to sell at a rate not keeping with their experience.

As an artist myself I'm all for artists making a living, but I also don't like seeing businesses ripped off. It's bad for the art industry, and gives designers a bad reputation. That's not fair to either party.

Chris

Originally posted by ChrisLM2001a
None of those great artists suffered from the lack of those 10 elements and principles of Art and Design though. They knew them by heart, as a sysadmin knows command strings.

I'm sure that (whatever you think the ten elements are) they are indeed shared by all great artists (assuming the list is worthwhile). And all great artists do know them "by heart" as you said or "innately" as I put it.

Here's where we start to disagree though. That's not how sysadmins know command strings; we know them because we memorized them, not because we never needed to memorize them.

I don't have any problem with your list (whatever it may be) and it's probably accurate and helpful to non-artists, and maybe even to some artists. What I strongly disagree with is the idea that asking an artists for that list tells you anything at all about that artist's level of competence. It might tell you if the went to art school, or which one they went to, or who they read, or who they study with, but that information is largely useless.

You can ask any sysadmin "what are the ten most useful commands you use every day" and if he can't think of anything, well, cross him off your list! This fails miserably when applied to artists.

Asking artists to talk about their work is a pretty bad way to separate wheat from chaff. In the case of Web designers, you may want to ask just to see how well they communicate, but as a barometer of artistic skill? Less than worthless. When I meet an artist, like yourself, you can talk to me all day about your theories and opinions of art, and I may come away with the impression that you are very knowledgable about art history, or that you are a good communicator, or that you obviously know the works of Degas very well, or etc etc, but I won't form any opinion about how good of an artist you are, because that only comes from an encounter with your work.

I agree completely that it's both unfortunate and common for businesses to be ripped off, but suggesting a canned question to screen candidates isn't the way to improve that situation.

It's the perfect screen, especially when good money is going to change hands.

Folks need to know something about Art and Design to know what they're getting. It's like buying a car and one doesn't know how to drive. :(

An artist of the caliber to command good money should know those 10 elements and principles of Art and Design. Otherwise s/he's but another copycat with a fancy graphics program with scripted code, and plugins.

Not so long ago, it was all done by hand, one long step at a time. Flunk on those rules, and you were out of a job. Now, it's add whatever eye candy that exists and hope the flash will make up for the deficiences. :(

Chris

Originally posted by ChrisLM2001a
It's the perfect screen, especially when good money is going to change hands.

Folks need to know something about Art and Design to know what they're getting. It's like buying a car and one doesn't know how to drive. :(

An artist of the caliber to command good money should know those 10 elements and principles of Art and Design. Otherwise s/he's but another copycat with a fancy graphics program with scripted code, and plugins.

Not so long ago, it was all done by hand, one long step at a time. Flunk on those rules, and you were out of a job. Now, it's add whatever eye candy that exists and hope the flash will make up for the deficiences. :(

Chris

Well I guess I'm not going to convince you on this one. :)

I still must say, someone may know those ten things and still have no talent, and many very talented people I'm sure have never heard of the ten elements and principles in the form you learned them. So hopefully others who read this thread won't think they can use that to find talent.

I agree with your other points completely. The average "Web designer" today hasn't a clue about anything, art or technology, and just creates something in Photoshop that looks exactly like a million other sites, cuts it up into an HTML table, adds a flash banner, and passes it off as a "professional design."