What Every Reseller Should Know Before Buying A Hosting Plan


The more I write, the more I realize that I need to learn how to write. Before hand, I appologize to you readers that experience any pain from reading this post. Soon after replying to a post in a forum asking a related question, I realized that this is an important topic that needs to be addressed. So I'm going to give it a shot.

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There are a few things to consider when buying a reseller account from any hosting company. But more importantly, knowledge will give you the ultimate buying power.

Probably the first and foremost consideration before buying is "why" do you want a reseller hosting account. There are many reasons, and each one has different requirements that may affect your purchase decisions.

If you own several domain names and just want a convenient place to host those names while you development them, then price and ease of use may be what is most important to you. If you are a web designer looking to add a value added product/service for your customers, then quality and price may be your primary concern. If you are running a web-hosting company, but don't feel up to the task of managing your own server then quality, resources, and ease of use may be the first thing on your mind.

If you are planning to host customers in a shared environment with other resellers then you will need a server suited to that environment. It will require more processing and memory than a small server that only hosts a few hundred basic websites.

Every person and every situation is different, and may have different requirements. Knowing a little about the hosting industry, the cost of web servers, and about the data centers where they are located will be a big plus in your buying power. So I'll begin there.

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There are two kinds of web hosts. Hosts that co-locate/lease dedicated servers, and host resellers. There is nothing wrong with being a host or being a reseller. What is disturbing, is that many times hosts misunderstand the needs of their resellers, and resellers often misunderstand the limits of their hosts.

Servers can be located almost anywhere, whether it is in an office basement or in a datacenter. Servers located in established datacenters usually have much better, higher quality, and faster connections to the internet backbone than a server hosted from someone’s basement or from a small company. The cost of a private yet quality connection to the internet backbone is too cost prohibitive for individuals and small companies to be able to offer competitive services and prices.

There is not much difference between the cost of leasing dedicated servers or co-locating servers. In fact, leasing is often times more economical when considering the cost of software and bandwidth, than co-locating a few servers. Included in the cost of a server are different levels of hardware and software support. This is even true with managed dedicated servers. And then there is the cost of good quality bandwidth. The price for a decent server averages from $250 - $500 per month.

Most data centers provide between 1,000GB to 2,000GB of bandwidth per month per dedicated server, and they do charge high fees for additional bandwidth. Some data centers provide "unmetered" bandwidth, but many times this is a marketing gimmick since other limitations will actually prevent the server from exceeding about 2000GB of bandwidth in normal monthly internet traffic. Irregardless, bandwidth does cost money, and lower bandwidth prices usually mean lower bandwidth quality.

If you are hosting in a shared environment with other resellers, you will probably want a server with at least P4 2.4Ghz or better processor and 1GB memory. A well configured Linux server with WHM/CPanel and most common software packages will use about 20GB of space for server use. So a dedicated server with a 100GB HD will only have about 80GB (or less) of hosting space available.

Knowing all of this will help you to make a more knowledgeable buying decision.

If a host pays $200 a month for a server with 100GB HD and 1,000GB of monthly bandwidth, and then pays another $50 to $100 (I'll go with $50 here) for server security, management and support... then that host will have about 80GB of HD hosting space available, at a cost of roughly $3.00 per GB HD. If the host makes maximum use of available hosting space, then at the most he can offer 12GB of BW per 1GB HD space.

These are only averages, but at those prices the host cannot afford to sell hosting plans for under $4 - $5 per GB HD. He simply would not remain in business very long. Resellers on that server face disaster.

Resellers should be highly suspicious of hosting plans that are priced way lower than industry prices. They should also be weary of plans that offer an abnormal proportion of bandwidth to HD space. Both of these are an overselling strategy and an indication that the host either lacks experience and good judgment, or is just outright scamming. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise!

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Another important thing is to know your host. IMHO one of the most useful set of tools that any reseller and host provider can have at their disposal are the DNS tools at www.dnsstuff.com (http://www.dnsstuff.com/).

One of the first things you can do to learn about a host is to run a Whois Lookup on their domain name. A whois Lookup in most cases will provide you with the registrants contact information and give you an idea where the registrant is from. With internet fraud running rampant, it is probably wise to use a company located in the same or similar legal jurisdiction as you.

Next, using the IP address to the host server, you can run an IPWhois Lookup. Be cautious though, the host server may not necessarily be on the same server that the host's own website is located on (I still host my own websites on shared server space that I purchased back when I was a reseller). When in doubt, ask the Host for the primary nameserver and IP to the server that you will be hosted on.

An IPWhois Lookup will sometimes provide enough information to determine what data center the server is located at. This can be powerful information, if you can visit the data center's website and get a general idea what their backbone connections and bandwidth policies are.

You can run a Reverse IP Lookup at www.whois.sc (http://www.whois.sc/) and find out how many websites are currently hosted on the server. From that list of websites you can pick one and run a DNS Report to find out how well the nameservers and mail server are configured on the host server.

There are many more things that you can do with these tools, including Ping, Tracert, IP Routing Lookup, Spam database lookup, etc.

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Having a contingency plan incase of disaster is something that every webmaster and reseller should seriously considered. I highly recommend using Managed DNS for your domain. If your server should fail, you can easily move your website to another server and be back online in a matter of minutes or sooner. Of course this will not speed up propagation of your nameservers, however customers that use your nameservers for their domains will at least be able to access your website and be kept updated on the situation.

Every reseller should be prepared for unexpected problems to occur. Sadly it comes with the territory. In my experience it has been the same with every hosting company I tried. Servers are always down, spammers are using up all the CPU and other resources, someone always insist on running some crappy CGI script that crashes the server... and then ultimately, the server is hijacked by someone that had SSH access or the company goes out of business (usually within days AFTER you make your payment).

I've certainly experienced my fair share of disasters and scams. Many of them could have been avoided had I known what I know now (especially about impossibly priced hosting plans). I lost a few $x,xxx last winter on several different reseller plans, even with some popular hosts. I finally just moved to my own dedicated servers. I'm glad I did... now I have a better understanding of how servers and the hosting industry as a whole works. I can now offer my customers better quality and reliability... (this is not an ad). With this information and your own experiences you too will be able to do the same.

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Finally, CPanel and WHM (Web Host Manager) are the most common and probably easiest to use control panels for Linux based hosting servers. The features included are pretty standard and well supported - custom nameservers, addon domains, subdomains, MySQL databases, stats, several scripts, Fantastico, PHP and CGI compatible, etc. Pretty much everything expected in any hosting plan. CPanel releases updates on a very regular basis. However, like Linux... CPanel is a package of many applications, and from time to time a bug may creep in somewhere. But these can be taken care of almost immediately, without to much inconvenience. Such as the way of computers and the internet.

RVSkin is a fairly recent skin for CPanel. Although it is a bit slow, it is very user friendly for resellers and users a like. It also includes features that give resellers more control than any other control panel I've personally played with.

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Although many resellers are not prepared to manage their own dedicated server, every reseller should learn as much about servers, related software, server management, and security as they can. Ultimately knowledge will empower you and make you a smarter buyer and better web host to your customers.

If you can think of anything else that I may have left out of this post, or that could be explained more clearly... please post your reply. I experienced reseller hell, and would never wish it on another person. As more resellers become knowledgeable, poor hosts and scammers will have a harder and harder time victimizing resellers with their wares and services. Eventually, some of them will be driven away.




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Great Article 000000000! It had some really wonderful tips! :)

Servers can be located almost anywhere, whether it is in an office basement or in a datacenter.

Well, you can't keep your servers anywhere, you can't keep them in your bathroom. :) (< Sorry, but I heard lots of jokes & today & can't stop laughing so I'm in a "joking"mood. But yeah I got what u r trying to say all the same)

To try and sum that post up and make it shorter, he is basically saying the famous "You get what you pay for" in essay format :D.

Regards,
Shay Bekman

lol, yeah! Right Portal. But all of the to-be resellers must read this. :)

Absolutely brilliant!

Thank you 000000000. :)

Kinda ironic that he sells reseller accounts for $5.99.

000000000- Awesome job. Many people assume too many things when they see pricing of reseller packages. They never stop to think about what is involved in running the servers, or even check the math to see what it takes to get a server paid off along with the sales/support staff's salary.

I thank you all for your compliments... it helps boost the confidence level even better than a cup of java on a Sunday morning.

Intelle
It is funny that you should mention the bathroom. I was just telling my children the other day how much more productive my day could start if we only had box by the stool. :)

Setix
I appreciate your observation. I agree that it does appear ironic, however I assure you that I've done my math carefully over and over and over.

Ever since I've limited my targeted market to (mostly) experienced resellers, I am able to escape a lot of the common user support issues that can eat at a host's time, and concentrate more of my time on keeping my servers running right. This is probably the single issue that makes it possible to offer the prices that I do.

Once again, thank you all.

Good advice ... *tag* for later reading.

whoa, I was only browsing this site and came across this forum and this thread in particular, very informative- Thank U :D, your article deserves a permanent place in this site and not just on this dynamic forum.

Thank U 4 the info.

Don_Raja

Thank you, and you are very welcome.

Very nice, well done post!

Nice article i give it 2 thumbs up :-)

Sorry, I didn't find much original useful information in your post. It was just a few paragraphs of obvious observations. You've only just taken the step into your own server/s, so you're yet to get into the nitty gritty that's to come. But never the less, for folks at the reseller level, your observations could be valuable.

Also branding your business from a hyfenated .net subdomain (/reseller-hosting.ip-2-ip.net) is really bad image. A lot of potential clients of yours will look at that and frown.

That's just my observation, but different folks see things differently. :)
Originally posted by 000000000
I appreciate your observation. I agree that it does appear ironic, however I assure you that I've done my math carefully over and over and over.
You might have "done my math carefully over and over and over", but that doesn't mean you have it right. Unlimited domains for $5.99/mth, is a recipe for disaster. If you're going to offer such cheap WHM accounts, your $5.99/mth plan should limit the number of domains to 10, and not unlimited.

You'd be flat out with 30 of those accounts per server, before the server will get bogged down, and with the unlimited domain model, it will get bogged down. That's a whopping $180/mth revenue per server. According to your article, "The price for a decent server averages from $250 - $500 per month."

Just some quick observations. :)

:emlaugh:... it was only a matter of time before the showboats come...

Aussie Bob

I respect you as a member of this forum... after all you were one of few people who helped get me on the right track, and I appreciate it. But :crap:, I just wish you had one more beer before you replied to this thread. :beer: ... because now I have to reply :uzi:

Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Sorry, I didn't find much original useful information in your post. It was just a few paragraphs of obvious observations. You've only just taken the step into your own server/s, so you're yet to get into the nitty gritty that's to come. But never the less, for folks at the reseller level, your observations could be valuable.


This thread was posted in the Reseller Hosting Forum for resellers who might not find your observations so obvious. You didn't find much useful information in this post because you are not new to the hosting industry. You already know the costs associated with leasing and managing dedicated/co-located servers.

Basically I wrote this post because no one else had. Frankly, I wish someone had when I started out as a reseller.


Originally posted by Aussie Bob
Also branding your business from a hyfenated .net subdomain (reseller-hosting.ip-2-ip.net) is really bad image. A lot of potential clients of yours will look at that and frown.


My "hyphenated" domain and subdomain are irrelavent to the original post in this thread. I'm not attempting to brand my hosting business. People can bash each other over the head from now to eternity about whether to use hyphens or not. I did... and for reasons that suite me.


Originally posted by Aussie Bob
You might have "done my math carefully over and over and over", but that doesn't mean you have it right. Unlimited domains for $5.99/mth, is a recipe for disaster. If you're going to offer such cheap WHM accounts, your $5.99/mth plan should limit the number of domains to 10, and not unlimited.

You'd be flat out with 30 of those accounts per server, before the server will get bogged down, and with the unlimited domain model, it will get bogged down. That's a whopping $180/mth revenue per server. According to your article, "The price for a decent server averages from $250 - $500 per month."


What's really ironic is how a bit of dry humor always seems to boomerang back at me.

Yes Aussie Bob, "maybe" I don't have it right, but then again maybe in my circumstance I do. You would really have to know someone's business model and goals before knowing. I agree that my pricing model wouldn't have worked for you, but that doesn't mean it won't work for someone else.

Up to know I have been fortunate to have very considerate customers who do not abuse the resources of my servers (knock on wood). I'm sorry that your experiences were not the same. Generally, I like to keep the trash off of my servers, even if someday I may have to take drastic measures. It's all bridges I will burn when I reach them.

Your other comments are nothing more than speculation. Unlimited domains does not mean infinite domains, it just means "I don't feel it necessary to dictate to experienced webmasters and resellers how to use their accounts". I have a TOS and AUP to help guide my customers if they are in doubt.

In my experience, most resellers are merely web developers, and people who own a few domains. They just want good hosting without all of the hassles or interference. It's only natural to resell (helps pay the hosting bill). But just because they have unlimited domains, does not always mean they can or will abuse the servers.


In Conclusion

The original post in this thread had nothing to do with domain names or my hosting businesses. I did not post it for marketing purposes. I'm simply sharing information about what I've learned and what I now know... with people who may not know. I wish someone else had written this when I was losing my money to the scammers... but no one did.

Oh, and Bob... perhaps I stand alone on this, but I think forums like this are more productive when members contribute useful information (however small), rather than running around the forum like spiteful old biddies slapping other members in the face when they post.

I don't know... perhaps I'm missing something, maybe I'm too idealistic. But then...

So, my highly respected comrade, :gone:

<<serious snippage>> If I only had more time! :D
Oh, and Bob... perhaps I stand alone on this, but I think forums like this are more productive when members contribute useful information (however small), rather than running around the forum like spiteful old biddies slapping other members in the face when they post.
Woaaah, calm down. Noone is slapping you in the face. You wrote an article, someone mentioned how it was ironic that you provide such badly priced (unlimited domain) plans, and I responded from there.

I threw in some free advice (seems you're giving advice with your original post) about your plan pricing being non sustainable, and your hyfenated .net subdomain, brandwise being poorly brandable.

Take that advice for what it's worth. :cool:

Damn, that was a barrage, eh Mr Bob? ;)

(Maybe hit a nerve)

I'm a cynical SOB and as far as I'm concerned, the whole post was one big "infomercial" for ip-2-ip.net. One look at the offerings of said host and we know it's the good old business model built on hope and who needs advice from someone untested in the industry with a business model destined to bring ruin?
If a host pays $200 a month for a server with 100GB HD and 1,000GB of monthly bandwidth, and then pays another $50 to $100 (I'll go with $50 here) for server security, management and support... then that host will have about 80GB of HD hosting space available, at a cost of roughly $3.00 per GB HD. If the host makes maximum use of available hosting space, then at the most he can offer 12GB of BW per 1GB HD space.
The thread starter offers one GB hosting and unlimited domains ( :crazy: ) for $6. So he's going to put 80 accounts on that server with $480/mo revenue? 80 clients - that's at least 1500 domains in my experience (and I do have some). The server's going to topple unless it's a 3ghz dual xeon with 4gb ram and they aren't exactly available for $200/mo. ;)

Plus, even if it's a one man show, what's a livable wage in the US? Say $1500/mo? On the above business model, you need 6 servers to support yourself. Hmmm, 480 clients, 10,000 domains, I hope you have a prescription for amphets on a large scale.

As far as the post is concerned, it has a few interesting points, but it's a shame 000000 hasn't taken his own advice. Plus the whole thing is biased largely towards WHM/cPanel because that's all he knows.

I could rip the whole post apart sentence by sentence but I can't really be bothered. We see this kind of operator everyday here on WHT and the only way to make them go away is to shine the light and then ignore them.

Originally posted by NexDog
I could rip the whole post apart sentence by sentence but I can't really be bothered.
I did two days ago. Then just before hitting submit, I figured that i'd get lambasted for it, so thought better of it.

Let's just say "the blind leading the blind" comes in to play.

Simon

The guy made a decent post that may have helped some people out.
It may have, if it wasn't all overshadowed by arguments about his own business.
He did not mention his own prices in the original post.
I can be as cynical as the next guy, but sometimes its worth taking things for what they are on the surface, which is a good bunch of advice all wrapped up in one post to help new resellers.
The advice given was good, even if his own example appears not to be. :)

SeaDawg,

Even still if your going to post something like this and not follow your own advice then it must be called for what it is.

I agree that this is nothing but a sales pitch, as well as an excellent post on why not to sign up with his company!

I mean to even placing the tag on the post is somewhat ammusing.

Its kinda like burger king selling Steak sandwiches on the 99 cent menu and calling mcdonalds "nothing more than ground chuck"

I love this place!

I mean to even placing the tag on the post is somewhat ammusing. ..... UnifiedNet.Net
Linux, Windows, and Combo Reseller Plans Available
Low Cost Dedicated Servers - Burst

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Yes i know this is different, but my message: lighten up.

Actually, why don't we all contribute to a single thread with objective advice. I would gladly put my mouth where my money is.

Originally posted by seadawg
Actually, why don't we all contribute to a single thread with objective advice. I would gladly put my mouth where my money is.


I am missing your point!

First off the exact companies that he is warning to stay away from do just that.. they put there "mouth where their money is" and then end up blaming others when things don't go right or infact close up shop!

This is a forum... People are here to give advice and opinions! At no time was anyone really rude to the poster untill he came flamming!

Originally posted by seadawg
Yes i know this is different, but my message: lighten up.


If you agree that this post is from left field then why even post you Lighten Up comments?

Originally posted by UnifiedNet
I am missing your point!

Correct!
Putting my mouth where my money is:
What I mean is I will back up what I am spending/charging for service because I believe it is fair and sustainable. We all do this unless there is a flash-in-the-pan scammer in business to rip everybody off and get out.
Ultimately, what I was suggesting was a combined effort to put together a thread full of do's/don'ts, tips, advice and whatever to help people who are new to the business.

I thought the original post is this thread would have served this purpose somewhat, but once it is called into doubt, it loses its effectiveness. Fair enough.

Now look what you made me do! I'm wrapped up in forum drama :(
:P
I'm not attacking you or anyone personally, just keeping it spicey :)

Seriously though, whoever thinks the original post was tainted with advertising and contradiction, start a new thread on the topic and I will gladly contribute. That's all I was really trying to say.

Like I said, it was only a matter of time before the showboats come...



Aussie Bob. I tried to reply with a little humor, but from the trail of trash following in your wake I guess I missed my mark. The problem is not in the advice, it is in the presentation, the irrelavent information, and of course the garbage that follows into an otherwise useful thread.

Setix made a short and simple comment. I gave him a good natured reply. It was a simple position on the matter. It should have ended there.

Since the moderators are letting this continue... excuse me while I dump the humor and get a little immature about this whole thing...

NexDog, IHSL, UnifiedNet regardless of your uninformed opinions, the post was NOT meant to advertise my webhosting site. But it's obvious that I stepped on some toes... all I really can say is GOOD, I hope it hurts.

Not a single one of you know what you're talking about. You don't now anything about me or my hosting service. NOTHING. You're basically forum trash poluting other people's threads. Your ilk are like virus that destroy usefull forums like this one. Oh, and if you don't like what I just said, go start your OWN thread and cry about it.


Originally posted by 000000000
Soon after replying to a post in a forum asking a related question, I realized that this is an important topic that needs to be addressed. So I'm going to give it a shot.


Which one of you are going deny the importance of the topic? oh, oh, I'll answer that for you... NONE OF YOU!

Which one of you started a thread addressing the topic? Oh, oh, I want to answer that too... NOT A SINGLE ONE OF YOU!

And why not... maybe because you don't really care that people are being robbed by people in your own industry. Or even worse, your too blind and stupid to see the harmful effect that it has on the industry that you make a living from. Oh, oh, I bet it's both.

But I did post the topic. I gave it a shot because it's a topic that I can relate to, and I imagine because I like people (And why not, I like myself?). Don't bother, it's way over you.


When I started in hosting, all I wanted was an easier and cheaper way to host my own domains (some of them even "hyphenated"). Of course that led to hosting friends, which eventually led to hosting other people. Nevertheless, what I ultimately learned was that the hosting industry is full of liars and scammers. The final solution to my problem was to just lease my own dedicated servers.

However, faced with our current confrontation... I'll be forthcoming about what I really think. +90% of the hosting industry is a farce. The only guarantee any reseller can have, is to lease a dedicated server directly from a reliable data-center... the point being that not a single one of you have a hosting company that I would refer someone else to.


In reply to your comments about my hosting business... none of you know anything about it. But since you made such a big issue about something you know nothing about, I will tell you this...

I lease servers for my websites. I will never use the resources, so I offer hosting. I may profit, but I hardly make a living from hosting (Hint: there's no long-term future in it). It certainly helps pay the bills to the data-center. Because my circumstances are different than yours and because I am different than you, I don't need to make 20+ times my cost. I also don't need to soak everyone for every penny they have.

I host my websites as well as other's, so I keep my servers tight, secure, and stable (my customers/clients like that). If one of my servers breaks down I have to fork out the money to fix it, so obviously overselling or overloading my servers is not going to be in my best interest. I keep the trash off of my servers too (I'd rather give someone their $6.00 back than have them trash out my servers and hog up all the resources).

I've never put 40 or 80 reseller accounts, or had anywhere close to 1500 domains on any of my servers (I bet none of you can say the same).

Note: That of course doesn't mean a good server couldn't handle that many domains. It all depends on the types of websites hosted on the servers. I've heard of entry-level celeron and P3 servers running 2,000 websites without a hitch.

But, NexDog, UnifiedNet, and sorry to say even Aussie Bob... you know this. Your comments are nothing short of twisting the truth, even if you are only ommitting it.

If such an insignificant post can create such a stir, then perhaps the hosters at WHM need a shakeup. I think my next post should get down to some nitty-gritty. As far as I'm concerned, this whole fiasco is nothing but show-boating. The flaming began with you three. Bob is a big boy and was able to clarify himself without you. Why don't you find something more custructive to do somewhere else in this forum. In other wards... STEP OFF!!

And UnifiedNet, not only are you talking crap, but you're being a total jerk towards a newer forum member. All for what?


I appologize if this reply offends any readers of this thread.

Sincerly
Lawrence Rogers

Originally posted by 000000000
What Every Reseller Should Know Before Buying A Hosting Plan


The more I write, the more I realize that I need to learn how to write. Before hand, I appologize to you readers that experience any pain from reading this post. Soon after replying to a post in a forum ..............continue...
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your article is very good, thanks for that. Only one thing sounds ODD. I checked your website and you are selling for 5.99$.....you said we dont have to trust companies selling at the price. Are you eating your tail??
Cheers XINGDA

As a neebie reseller of one year and a newcomer to WebHosting Talk I really did learn something from the original post. Now, having read the entire thread I have learned even more. I have learned how cutthroat this web hosting business really is. I felt like I was swimming in the midst of a school of maneating sharks, in an eating frenzy. Still, this thread is indicative of the global market economy. However disheartening it is.

I started my web hosting business out of desperation after getting laid off from work, following 9/11. But I quickly learned that this business is tough and highly competitive. Today, as much as I would like to see my business grow into something much more substantial, having only two customers to my credit, I probably stand a better chance of getting hit by a MAX commuter train, here in downtown Portland, OR.

Stilll, as an artist I have begun to look at this venture as an expensive hobby, like painting landscapes in oil. To that end, I have no intention of quiting my real job. Thank you for the eye opener.

Kindest regards,

Joseph H. Allard

Originally posted by 000000000
Like I said, it was only a matter of time before the showboats come...
NexDog, IHSL, UnifiedNet regardless of your uninformed opinions, the post was NOT meant to advertise my webhosting site. But it's obvious that I stepped on some toes... all I really can say is GOOD, I hope it hurts.
Wow.

You really have a bee in your bonnet don't you?

Insults a-plenty and arrogant / disruptive to boot.

Apparently someone who doesn't agree with your post is "uninformed", are "trash", and are a "virus".

A word to the wise;
WHT has strict rules regarding name-calling and general impoliteness. These rules are based around socially acceptable behaviour (being polite isn't exactly difficult to do, whether you agree with a person or not).

Take a look at your post. If you do not feel embarrassed about what you have posted, then I am severely surprised, considering you are hyping yourself as an educated businessman.

Good luck in the business, one would only hope that you handle yourself with much more restraint in 'real time'.


Simon

Originally posted by IHSL
Apparently someone who doesn't agree with your post is "uninformed", are "trash", and are a "virus".

This is the thing that bothered me.

If people were criticizing the actual content of the post, it would be welcomed as far as I'm concerned, though I cannot speak for the poster.

All the bad attitudes came about when the criticisms were about the poster instead of the post.

This has just gotten way too "catty" for my taste. I am not here to make enemies so this is my last post for this thread. I suggest we all just drop it.

This has just gotten way too "catty" for my taste. I am not here to make enemies so this is my last post for this thread. I suggest we all just drop it.

I was merely making an observation, for one thing. For another, I apparently this forum isn't what I thought it would be: "A place to share experiences and to learn something new." Not only is this my last post, but it is the last time I use this forum. Thank you.

Respectfully,

Joseph H. Allard

Originally posted by 000000000
Like I said, it was only a matter of time before the showboats come...
No insults please. I am not a showboat.
NexDog, IHSL, UnifiedNet regardless of your uninformed opinions, the post was NOT meant to advertise my webhosting site. But it's obvious that I stepped on some toes... all I really can say is GOOD, I hope it hurts.
You didn't step on their toes. Your post was interpreted as self serving by some forum members.
Not a single one of you know what you're talking about.
Both Simon and Laurance are very well respected members of WHT, and operate very successful hosting businesses. They both really do know what they're talking about. They can talk the talk, because they have walked the walk, unlike some.
You don't now anything about me or my hosting service. NOTHING.
Wrong. I researched your hosting business. You'd be amazed at what we can know. :)
You're basically forum trash poluting other people's threads. Your ilk are like virus that destroy usefull forums like this one. Oh, and if you don't like what I just said, go start your OWN thread and cry about it.
Wrong again. You stood up and posted an article in a public forum. I questioned you as the author, due to your own business.
If such an insignificant post can create such a stir, then perhaps the hosters at WHM need a shakeup. I think my next post should get down to some nitty-gritty. As far as I'm concerned, this whole fiasco is nothing but show-boating. The flaming began with you three. Bob is a big boy and was able to clarify himself without you. Why don't you find something more custructive to do somewhere else in this forum. In other wards... STEP OFF!!
Yikes. Calm down. Noone is attacking you.
And UnifiedNet, not only are you talking crap, but you're being a total jerk towards a newer forum member. All for what?
No need to resort to personal name calling. You're not only breaking WHT rules, but you're making yourself look bad.

Here's the thing - if you stand up and post such articles in public forums, expect folks to give criticism, of the article or of the author. If you don't want such crticism, don't post such articles.

My opinion - you've just made the jump from the reseller level to the dedicated server level, and due to some unpleasant experiences, think you're going to expose some major conspiracy that's been hidden. Good luck with that. I look forward to your next article. :)

I truly thank everyone that supported the original post, and I really hope that it will benefit some people. I apologize for the thread that followed, including my own replies.


xingda

Thank you for your observation. Unfortunately this thread has been seriously tainted with attacks on my own business practices. The post was meant to help you and other people, not to advertise my business. However, since it is only natural by now that you might question the oddity in it, I will reply...

In the post I stated, "These are only averages, but at those prices the host cannot afford to sell hosting plans for under $4 - $5 per GB HD. He simply would not remain in business very long. Resellers on that server face disaster."

Although $5.99 is not less than $4-$5, I admit that it is close enough to warrant some caution (yes, I said that).

However, in defense of my current prices, I will say that I receive really good prices on the current servers that I am offering hosting on. I would also point out that it is plain on my website that I do not actively provide user support. Support is mostly limited to server, software and security issues (which means subscribers who are inexperienced with WHM/CPanel might not be satisfied with my hosting services).

Because I am paying less for the current servers offered, and do not offer much user support, then I do not feel that I can justify higher prices. This is my decision.

I hope that my reply clarifies the issue for you.



--------------------------------------------------------------------

Now please excuse me while i get all immature again:


As for you ...

[i]Originally posted by IHSL
Wow.

You really have a bee in your bonnet don't you?


I had three of them in my bonnet yesterday, but I seem to have missed one.


Originally posted by IHSL
Insults a-plenty and arrogant / disruptive to boot.

Apparently someone who doesn't agree with your post is "uninformed", are "trash", and are a "virus".


I guess you're not a very good reader either... I told you if you don't like what I said, go start your OWN thread and cry about it.

Personally, I don't mind constructive critisism of my posts (key word is constructive), but that isn't what the three bees were doing in my bonnet... is it. The disruption, arrogance, and insults began with the unwarranted group attack against me and my business by your little clik. And yes, the little comment in your post was just as much a part of the attack as your two buddies. None of you pointed out any errors in the post and explained the problem.

In the post I merely stated the things that I learned as a reseller (albeit the hard way) and now understand as a host. The post had nothing to do with my hosting company, or with advertising it.



Originally posted by IHSL
A word to the wise;
WHT has strict rules regarding name-calling and general impoliteness. These rules are based around socially acceptable behaviour (being polite isn't exactly difficult to do, whether you agree with a person or not).


I see that you have no regard for the forum rules, until it serves your own purpose. How typical. Perhaps, as a member of the dynamic trio, you should have regarded the rules when you were having your fun trashing this thread. Let me quote some for you...


Warning. Your postings on this public forum will become public. Your text will be available to anyone with an internet connection...

The basic ground rules for discussions on WebHostingTalk are simple: be polite, use common sense, don't break the law and don't post any message that even hints at advertising...

Participants may not use discussions to recommend, praise, or belittle other products or services, or any company; without first hand experience of those products or services. This includes companies recommending other companies...

We take the "Be Polite" rule very seriously! We do not tolerate any rudeness. Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive may be banned without warning...


But since that is probably gibberish to you, let me point out a couple of key elements... "...be polite, use common sense", "Participants may not... belittle other products or services, or any company; without first hand experience of those products or services.", "Any member who is intentionally unpleasant or disruptive..."


Did you consider yourself polite? Did you use common sense? Or did you impolitely attack the poster and belittle his services and company without warrant and without first hand experience or knowledge? Need I say more!


Originally posted by IHSL
Take a look at your post. If you do not feel embarrassed about what you have posted, then I am severely surprised, considering you are hyping yourself as an educated businessman.


I will stand by my last post, if for any reason because it's the truth. Yes, it embarrasses me... especially the fact that I would be pushed to speak out like that, however I used a great deal of restraint as it was no where close to what I really wanted to say.

Aussie Bob

I respect your opinion, but I disdain the polution that you and your friends hammered this thread with.

I addressed you personally with my problems with your reply. And now I have addressed them too. All is good.

That is all I have to say on this matter.

Originally posted by 000000000
Aussie Bob

I respect your opinion, but I disdain the polution that you and your friends hammered this thread with.
It's called feedback, not "pollution".
That is all I have to say on this matter.
Somehow I doubt that, but I really do look forward to your next article. :)

:peace:

Nah, the next infomercial. I'm going to join a forum full of microbiologists and write an article for post-grad students on mitochondria. ;)

Um, I'm not against either side, but just want to express my opinion in a normal customer point of view. And my english is not good, so please don't mind.

First, I think it is not quite fair to judge a company by just their hosting plans even if you know every chipsets his servers are using. Because there are so many possibilities. For example, hosting is just a value-added services to other businesses or it is just a first-stage of a larger business plan which profit is not an issue for this stage. etc etc.... For me, I could offer hosting in any price since my target is getting online application development projects. One project + maintenance worths giving out 100 hosting packages. (Just an example, please don't criticize me on this)

Another thing is that no matter whose points are correct, I really don't like seeing argument between companies like this. I will always imagine someday these people will argue with me in the same way if I'll be their customer. So I always avoid signing up with companies that I see posts like this. I believe many people here feel the same.

I understand that we have to defence ourself when something we THINK are not right, but I truly believe all companies involved are in this arguement are very likely lost protential customers, which we all don't want to see it happen. Then why bother.

Actually I saw similar arguements time to time here, but honestly some companies handled things much better than companies I saw here. For instant, I think the 'recent WHM headline host' will be able to handle crisis and emotion better than companies here.

Maybe the author really started this thread in a wrong time & stage, but we shouldn't look down on people even if your company is 10000 times bigger than others, since you can't tell if others will be larger than yours 10000 times someday. Everyone starts off with nothing both in term of business size, money, experiences, knowledge etc. You also don't want microsoft or theplanet to post here saying your business is going to close or you are relatively un-experienced or such a stupid business model you have.

One suggestion, I do like this topic of 'What Every Reseller Should Know Before Buying A Hosting Plan' a lot (not the posts here), no matter if it is for reseller or virtual or dedicated, it'd be such a useful information and great thing to do if anyone of you experienced people can start a thread with a good informative first post. If we'll collect useful posts there, I'm sure it'll benefit everyone in this industry both providers and customers.

Finally, I do hope we have a peaceful, informative place to learn and read. I like this place. I can't believe I write that much. :)

Please note that lots of new visitors come here everyday, they know nothing about your companies, no matter how good your support are, no matter how long you are in this industry, no matter how well you manage your servers, these people will just remember what you guys said here and continue their search on other hosting companies.