I still haven't come to a conclusion on which CP will suit my needs best. I won't be re-selling web hosting, I'll be using the dedicated server to host one site, maybe a few small sites too though. The website will just be using PHP/MySQL and loading a lot of images, that's all. What CP do you suggest I choose? I'm thinking towards Plesk, since it looks much nicer :)?

Alan

Just one site??

Go for ensim....is cheaper...and more cute than plesk...

LOL, well I'll most likely stick more sites on the server, but I was trying to give the impression that I'm not going to be hosting hundreds of small sites for clients, it'll only be used for my own sites.

I've taken a look at the demo's for Plesk and Ensim again and I still think Plesk's interface looks much more professional. The feel that I got from Ensim was that it's confusing and a bit of a 'busy' interface.

But after it all, still indecisive of which CP to choose.

Alan

I haven't used Ensim in production so I cannot comment on it.

As far as Plesk, I have been extremely happy with Plesk. It is very stable, secure and the support is one of the best I've found. I always have someone replying my email and answering my call when I need help. I really like the interface too, and I have good comments from my clients about it. It looks professional and clean.

If stability and support are important for you, I know Plesk will not dissapoint you, and I can see myself using Plesk for a very long time. :)

Reyner

Note: by this, I'm not saying that Ensim is a bad product. I think Ensim is a great product that is used by many recommended web hosting, but since I haven't really used it, I cannot comment on it.

Thanks rey, I'm thinking more over to Plesk than Ensim for a server at Rackshack, but I'll see what other people's views about both CPs are.

What I want to know is, if you're using Plesk or Ensim, and how are you finding it? Have you had any problems with it, if yes, what?

Alan

Alan, I think you should really search the forum for such comparision, as there has been many.

Peter

Ya know, after reading all of the threads, I don't think it really matters. They all will make it easier then running from command prompt. It's like Blue Jeans, Levi's or Wranglers???? You're not ever going to know till you try it. Except decient support makes for way less time waisted. And I like easy.

We of course prefer Ensim. The main advantage to it is havng a standard web type toolbar on the left to make your choices and then sub choices on each page rather than the set up that Plesk uses.

Have you seen the 3.0 version Ensim control panel yet? Its similar to 2.0 but a little cleaner and there are many more options.

I actually had another try at the Ensim control panel at Rackshack and I think it's rather cool, not that wasy to use though, but I think if I look at the manuals it'll be a little easier. LOL, now I just got to wait till Rackshack is all stable and then I can get a server from them :).

Thanks everyone,
Alan

Hi,
our company has been asked so many times if we provide reseller packages that we are now seriously considering giving it a try.
We have our own CP, but it doesn't take care of everything, so here's my question: do ENSIM or PLESK offer anything at reseller level?

Thanks,

Ensim offers complete reseller ability.

Ensim offers complete reseller ability.

This is incorrect. RackShack sells LS which is not set up for built in reselling. If you need built in reselling, Plesk is great for this.

Ensims reseller model is built in to the SX LH model, and even then, there is only one level of reselling.

Other then that issue, Ensim is a much better solution in my opinion. Especially the new 3.0.

Rackshack may not offer it but we offer Appliance Administrator Interface for the WEBppliance. This is all a reseller needs to create and configure their own customer accounts.

The Serverxchange is a billing and support ticket system that is available as an addon to the WEBppliance, we also offer this.

We have resellers using both or just the WEBppliance. It all depends on how they handle their billing. Someone who is doing mostly design work doesn't seem to need the Serverxchange since they usually bill their customers for oter services as well as hosting. The people that are reselling hosting mainly and not billing for much else generally add the Serverxchange on since it simplifies billing and support.

Matt, no offense, but you are missing the point. The questions was this - "Which Rackshack CP? Ensim or Plesk? ". RS uses LS. It does not have any built in reseller abilities.

In regards to SX, we have used it since 12/00. We are well aware about the capibilies. Many people like to create a reseller within a reseller enviornment. Ensim can not do this. If you create a VDS, you have just created a reseller for you - the SX owner. That reseller can not use WP 3.0 to make reseller palns of his own. The RAS only helps with automation/management of the reseller with the VDS.

If you look at Plesk, you are actually able to create multiple reseller levels.

Well not necessarily. The reseller automation feature can be enabled in 3.0 for resellers through the Serverxchange, its just not widely known apparently.

Rackshack simply doesn't want to offer the Appliance Administrator to its customers then. This option is available to any company that uses Ensim products. They are not offering Ensims full capabilities, which is fine with me since I do ;) I believe they are having problems configuring Ensim. From a lot of previous posts it seems this way anyway.

The reseller automation feature can be enabled in 3.0 for resellers through the Serverxchange, its just not widely known apparently.

What are you talking about?

Ensim
SX ==> Customer Account Manager (multiple server/WP management) ==> VDS's (resellers) - no abilty to create another reseller CP for their customers.

Plesk
PSA ==> Reseller ==> Reseller

Matt tell me how you do multi-tiered reselling with WP. I am not talking about discount based reselling. I am talking about CP based, where your resellers, can in turn give their reseller a CP, etc...

I am real curious about this. Thanks.

Well,
hold on.
From what I'm reading here, what I understand is that the version of Ensim RS offers *does* offer resellers features for what we want to do:
-set up reseller accounts,
-resellers can in turn create new client accounts
-we do not want the resellers to be able to create their own plans, we've seen this before and it was terrible
-however we need them to be able to select how much space their clients' mailboxes are, etc.

So what d'ya think?

LS/LH have three levels of control.
1) The resellers level/server level - Appliance Admin = You create the domains, add servcies, etc...
2) The site Admin - Where your customers go to manage just there account. They can create mailboxes, etc.. like you want.
3) User admin - The site admin creates users. They can then login and manage mail features, use SSH, ftp. They can not change services or manage those. Only the site admin can.

Key point - The site admin does not have an option to manage other domains from one CP.

If this is all you need, ensim is great.

If you want to have an account and create a reseller level for your resellers, where they can go and decide what features, space, etc., their domain users get, then you need Plesk.

Plesk created reseller can manage multiple domains within their allotment.

The choice really matters on how you want to create resellers.

The point here is being missed. When we set up a reseller account they get an administration control panel to administer their customers sites. This is as cyan saysmoker says: From what I'm reading here, what I understand is that the version of Ensim RS offers *does* offer resellers features for what we want to do:

If one of our resellers wants to resell they just need to send us the info and we set up the admin control panel for their reseller. Their reseller gets their own name servers, etc... With this set up our resellers create their own plans and pricing. They are welcome to copy ours or create their own. Perhaps they are specializing in non profit hosting or something like that, so tey establish their own plans.

I don't understand what is being said that the Ensim software does not have?

The ServerxChange is a SEPERATE system than the WEBppliance. The ServerxChange is a billing and support ticket system that gives you the ability to sell and have instant activation available, as well as some other features. For example: We offer instant activation for shared and ecommerce plans. Reseller, VPS and dedicated machines are not offered with instant activation but we can have them as options for customers to purchase through the billing control panel on the ServerxChange.

Again, what is it that is available only though Plesk and not Ensim?

The ServerxChange is a SEPERATE system than the WEBppliance. The ServerxChange is a billing and support ticket system that gives you the ability to sell and have instant activation available, as well as some other features.

Perhaps you missed it. We have been using SX since 12/00. We are well aware of the capabilities and uses. SX does not come with a TTing or Billing system by the way. It is a module. For that CAS feature, you must pay extra. A lot extra. Like $1500 for the first 500 accounts and $600/mo/1000 additional accounts. (I am sure you can negociate this a little). Sorry, but SX is not what you state unless you pay more. SX is a control center to set up and manage your dedicated, Multitenet, and PS server/customers. Do you have it? Just curious. I find it odd how two people can see the use so differently.


Again, what is it that is available only though Plesk and not Ensim?

Why don't you just take the time to demo Plesk and add resellers. It will dawn on you.

Better yet, answer this

How can some one with LS (which RS has) create a reseller account for *their* resellers? A place where *their* resellers can manage all their accounts in one simple location? Basically a mirror image of the CP that the tier 1 reseller uses. With Plesk, this option is available. Same with Alabanza and CPanel. If you buy LS, the Appliance admin can create domains. Plesk lets you create domain or a reseller.

Again......
Plesk
Admin => Reseller => Domain => user

Ensim
Admin => Domain => user

cyansmoker, I have a pretty good idea what you want. Something similar to the CPanel reseller option? If you go with Ensim LS, you won't get the abilty to create your own resellers. Trust me. Why don't you just look at the demo and try to do what you are asking.

Here -

http://plesk.com/html/products/psa/features.htm

Someone can create a reseller as I stated before. They put an email into our techs and we set up a reseller account for them with their specs on as a Virtual Private Server. The same holds true if they want to resell. They just email us and its done.

As you say the billing and support system are a module but they are the main functions of the serverxchange. A reseller does not need the xchange to have a reseller account. As it costs extra and as I stated before may not be needed by some.

As far as the panels themselves I feel that the Plesk panel is strange in its configuration. Thats why we use the Ensim panel. All of the options and areas are set up like a typical and familiar web page. People that we have asked prefer it this way over the Plesk panel.

Yes we do have the ServerXChange by the way. How would I know how it functions if I didn't have it on our system and use it every day?

OK,
let me explain what I'm looking for.
First off, we used to work with CPanel a while ago, then grew tired of it (I won't give any reason, not here to start another holly war) and we wrote our own CP.

Now, our CP doesn't offer reselling. We think it would be quite an effortless situation to get one or more RS servers. It would end up costing us less than colocating more machines in our DC and paying for the pipes + the CP (!!!). The only issue we have with this is: "how reliable is RS?". Different thread.

We are kinda wary of the formula where you sell, say 2 GBs to a reseller and they stuff in as many clients as possible.
We like better the idea of giving them the *status* of resellers, allowing them to resell accounts that we set up and giving them a comfortable cut.

Now, of course, once the client domain is set up, our resellers should be able to access all the accounts we have set up and modify all they want as if it was their own domain.

OK, that's about it :D

Chris, you're talking about reselling someone elses offerings, which is a fine way to go. We have found it easier to sell or reseller plans as larger space that the reseller can divide how they want to.

We don't currently offer reseller hosting the way you are looking for it but if you change your mind give us a shout!

Everyday,
I believe your completely misread me.
Where did I ever write that?



Anyway, my question is still not answered, if anybody knows anything about this it would be much appreciated:

-can I, using ENSIM, give control over some domains to our resellers?

Thanks,

Chris, you are killing me. I just said no. Numerous times.
http://www.ensim.com/demos/lhindex.shtml

Try it.

Ensim does not allow control over multiple domains from one location below the Appliance Admin level - your level. You can always give them control over individual domains where they could log into the account and manage users, space, and services. However, it is just like a Cobalt RAQ in that the feature set included in WP does not allow the use of reseller creation.

Sorry about that Chris, use this as an example:

If you had a reseller account using Ensim you would have the Appliance Administrator. If the company you are reselling for allows their resellers to resell then you could have the company you are reselling for set up a VPS for your customer with an appliance admin. This is how we do it, Your customer is listed under your account. They get their own name servers etc...

Does that answer your question?

Haha...
the whole thread is turning surrealistic.

First I -only slightly- hijack it, then UmbilliCord and Everyday start disagreing on every single point, and now Everyday won't understand that I'm not reselling for anybody but trying to set up resellers accounts.

UmbilliCord, you're now irrirated because obviously I keep asking the same question -I admit I haven't looked at the URL yet, I used the demo on RS site, but was unsure about access rights, and really hope to have time to look at the URL you wrote here very soon-.

Anyway, thanks for your help, I hope anyone else reading this thread will find it useful :stickout :stickout :stickout

Well in order to sell accounts you usually have to set up some sort of a reseller account. Unless the hosting company will pay you a referral fee. I haven't heard of that though. My guess is it would be a pretty low fee since the host would have to support the resold accounts directly.

I got ya now though!!! :D

I got ya now though!!!

God, I didn't think the day would ever come! :D

No need to be snippy Billy. I got what Chris wants to do but I still don't know see where you are coming from. I just set up a reseller today with our system and they can resell if they choose to.

Snippy is my middle name.

I got what Chris wants to do but I still don't know see where you are coming from.

I guess some people never will if they never open their mind. Feel free to PM me if you wish to continue this.

Originally posted by Everyday
I got ya now though!!! :D

You *do* understand that we are a hosting company with its own servers and we are wondering what CP suits our needs when it comes to giving decent features to our resellers, then?

Cheers,

cyansmoker,

I found this thread in Ensims forums. There are numerous people looking for what you are asking about with Ensim. Looks like some are working together to come up with a solution like Plesk has.

http://www.ensim.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000617.html

Matt, maybe reading it will help you understand what we are talking about.

I know what you're talking about...it just doesn't need to be this way...I quote from one of those posts.

A 4th level of control (ie Reseller Control) for LS would take Webppliance to the next level. The only reason I think this level of control hasn't been added so far is Ensim wants to push people to use SX & Private servers for resellers.

The ServerXChange is already set up to do this along with controlling the billing. The main problem I see with doing it through the WEBppliance is then you still have to worry about how to bill and keep and automate the process.

It's a cool idea but there are more issues to be resolved if it were to be set up that way. Its already hard enough to control the billing and support ticket systems if you are manually doing it. With the SX its all there already.

By the very fact that we have over three pages of posts and still limited clarity on how to accomplish reseller functionality with Ensim....and that it is in a separate product....tells me they still have some work to do.

First, the functionality needs to be there.

Second, the approach to using it needs to be straight-forward and easy to explain and use.

Until any software accomplishes both, it is lacking. I think Ensim is a very nice product, but still needs to go the next step. All developers of Control Panels need to continuously look at their competition and the areas in which their competition beats them. For instance, CPanel may be buggy, but its reseller functions are good. Plesk may not be as aesthetically full as Ensim, but its reseller functions are good.

And the final decision on control panels comes down to your particular needs and your experience/knowledge.

We actually offer 4 (5 if you include Webmin) different control panels, including Plesk and Ensim, but we do not use Ensim for reseller accounts.

LOL, 3 pages of reselling related capabilites of the CPs... and it wasn't really what I needed to know. All I wanted to know is which is better. After 3 pages, I get that reselling isn't too good, but I don't need that feature :). Anyone else got other things to say about Plesk and Ensim then?

Alan