Does anyone else have a really big site and problems with finding a good reliable host?

The one I'm with now (I don't want to mention their name because I don't want to make problems for them) seems to generally know what they're doing and my site has been going well.

But I wanted to take the shared border off my pages and I can't do it (it's a Frontpage thing).
So I asked them to help and they said they can't, basically. They blamed FP and the size of my site.

I had no problems with the shared borders on previous web hosting companies; but I have had them blame my site or FP when they had technical issues they couldn't resolve. I don't know why they can't just work with MS to solve them. They always seem to pass the buck and give up instead.

They also like to tell me how long they worked to resolve an issue (as if I want to hear that; I'm paying for the site and support on it). They even chewed me out for sending a lot of emails to support (I'm sorry, I thought that was my right as a customer).

I suggested they talk to MS and instead they got rude and told me to move my site elsewhere. What happened to the customer is always right? I don't necessarily even believe in that, but at least the customer has the right to complain, to ask for help, to ask questions, and to expect politeness and cooperation in exchange for the money. As well as competence and a willingness to solve problems.

I really don't want to move my site again but I don't like being treated this way, either...I asked the guy if I could keep my page there; I don't think I was being rude when I asked them to talk to Microsoft but obviously I hit a nerve of some kind.

The fact is, I am used to poor service, but that was when I was paying $25 a month to host my site. I'm paying over $85 a month for this current site so I guess I do expect a little more.

Do you think I have unreasonably high expectations?

:bawling: :bawling:

Originally posted by slanoue
. . . . . . . .Do you think I have unreasonably high expectations? . . . . . . Probably. :)

I don't think it's reasonable to expect your host to edit your pages for you. At least, I wouldn't think so.

If I'm understanding your problem correctly.
You are saying that you had a problem with Front Page
You wanted your host to fix your Front Page problem by speaking with Microsoft and finding a solution for you.

I believe that it's the host's responsibility to make certain the server's up and running properly.
They shouldn't be expected to teach clients how to use software.



:cartman:just my opinion:rolleyes:

I second SoftWareRevue.

I also had a similar problem with a client of mine. I do not use FP myself. So I asked some other client to publish a file or so to that client's site, which he did. Still then, my client could not publish it. He called up MS ppl, and they said that the server has some problem. I uninstalled and reinstalled FP, but things didn't work even then.

Then I politely asked my client to give us (or other) the work for designing her web-pages, which we'll do without using FP.

I think that was the maximum I could do for the client. Does FP has some problems in publishing? Specially in newer versions? Or, any help about fixing it?

I have to agree with Software Revue here.

I have had MANY problems with hosts in the past, and have been very vocal about them here. Still, it is not the host's responsibility to help you figure out how to use your software. If they are keeping the server your site is on up, and providing you with the service you paid for, they're doing their job. If you are having problems figuring out how to use your software, it is not up to them to solve them.

Oh, you guys have completely misunderstood here...
I guess you don't know frontpage. Sorry, I should explain better.

When I tried to take the shared border off my pages, I got an error message FROM THEIR SERVER. Basically it timed out every time.
It's not a problem with Frontpage or anything I'm doing. I am just trying to do a reasonable thing (take the shared border off) and I can't because it's not working on their server.

It's like if I tried to move a file and got an error message from their server. It's not letting me do it.

A shared border is a section of a page; you can put this border (a section with text, graphics, whatever) on as many of your pages at a time as you want. I have it on almost all of my pages. It takes a while to put it on or take it off because I have many pages. I can edit it, that takes time, too, but it works. However if I check the box in frontpage to take off the shared border completely, it won't work. I get the timed out error message from their server.

Do you see now? There is something wrong on their server that does not me allow to use this Frontpage thing adequately.

Thanks

Originally posted by slanoue
Do you see now? There is something wrong on their server that does not me allow to use this Frontpage thing adequately.

I don't know what version of FrontPage you are using, but problems with shared borders is a common issue when the client is use FrontPage 2002 and the server is running the FrontPage 2000 Server Extensions. FrontPage 2002 generally works fine with the 2000 Server Extensions; shared borders are one of the few inconsistencies, and your host may not be aware of this.

I think your best bet is to remove the shared borders from the web stored on your hard disk, then publish your website with the option to overwrite all existing files. This assumes you're building your website on your hard disk then publishing to the server when changes are made, as opposed to editing your website directly on the server (which is a bad idea).

On the one hand, you're paying *way* above average for your hosting (assuming you're on a shared hosting plan), and you're right to expect more from your host. On the other hand, I can understand why they suddenly got rude when you suggested they call Microsoft--if you've ever had to call Microsoft for tech support, you'll understand too.

Hmm..I will tell them about those issues with the shared borders, maybe it will help.

I am paying a lot because my page is large, over 2.1 gb and gets a lot of traffic. It's hard to find reliable hosts that will let me have that for very little. I tried some that charged me less but either they ended up telling me I was using too much bandwidth, or they had terrible technical support.

I don't publish the site; I edit it live. I have to because I'm not the only one working on the site. And because it's so large that publishing it takes a very long time and doesn't really work well.

I've talked to MS support many times and they have always been very helpful. I have talked to them twice now about problems I've been having with web hosting providers and they were extremely sympathetic and helpful.

They're not cheap, I'll grant you...

I have used Frontpage in the past and still do on some small sites. Can't you just edit your borders so nothing is there? But, frontpage has been a problem here or there. How do you recalculate links or verify links with a site that size on a share server over the internet? Site Index must be huge.

If it is 2 gb - convert to a database (not access).

Either ASP, SQL
or LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL PHP-PERL-Python)

You will be happier.

2gb! that's some huge site you've got! What's the url?

>>I have used Frontpage in the past and still do on some small sites. Can't you just
edit your borders so nothing is there?>>

Yes and I did end up doing that, but it leaves a small space that I don't like. Call me crazy, but if I'm paying $85 a month, I expect everything to work!

>> But, frontpage has been a problem here or
there. How do you recalculate links or verify links with a site that size on a share
server over the internet? Site Index must be huge.>>

I don't do those things in Frontpage. I use an external program for verifying links, or I do it by hand (the latter is preferable anyway because just because a particular page is not there doesn't mean that site is still not there; or just because a site is still there doesn't mean it has the same content or it might have a referral page to a new site).

I have a Site map but it only lists the main pages. Many of my pages are for daily soap opera updates or transcripts so I don't bother putting those all on the site map. Also I have tons of images and movies that take up room. And also, this is three sites we're talking about here, not just one, don't know if I mentioned that...
tvmegasite.net, suzann.com and soapsgirl.org
All three are big.

>If it is 2 gb - convert to a database (not access). Either ASP, SQL or LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL PHP-PERL-Python) You will be happier.>

Thanks but I don't know anything about databases so it would take up too much of my time to learn all that, not to mention converting it...and I have about 40 volunteers, 10 of which help me directly on the site with Frontpage, so it would also require them learning something new. I'm happy with Frontpage in general, I like the new 2002 a lot.

For sites that huge, I suggest to move away from Frontpage. There are a lot of reason:

- Frontpage is extremely resource intensive, especially for such a large site, you'll be hitting the hardware limit pretty soon I guess, no matter how much you will pay.

- As a web host myself, I have been bitten too much by Frontpage. There was times when Frontpage generated like 5-10 support request every day for small amount of clients (200-300). There are some thing that is beyond our control to fix. Not to mention that the Frontpage extension is not opensource software, when we found a problem, we won't be able to fix it ourselves.

- Web sites using database are a lot more efficient. Surely there are a few among your 40 volunteers interested in that kind of thing. It will be well worth the effort.

Originally posted by EssEss
. Does FP has some problems in publishing? Specially in newer versions? Or, any help about fixing it?


Pinch yourself......

are you alive
there is your answer

I think that you should expect better service from your hosting company.

Even though the hosting company's primary responsibility is to keep the server running, if they offer FP extentions as a service they are obligated to give you support for it. Though if it is simple user error that is causing the problem, then that is one thing, but if you are getting server errors then their tech team is there to help.

If they are not familar with the operation of FP on the client or server end then don't host it!

That is just my opinion though.:)

Exactly. I think too many webhosting companies cop out by saying there are problems with Frontpage, we can't fix it.
So if you can't get it to work, why offer it?
Why not become a Microsoft Web Presence Provider or at the very least, be willing to contact Microsoft for help?
It seems pretty simple to me.

If Microsoft can't help you fix the problem, THEN you can come back and tell the customer, sorry, Frontpage sucks, even Microsoft couldn't help us fix it...

If they are not interested in helping you and you cannot convert your website than to something other than FP I would suggest finding a hosting company that specializes in FP. They are out there and I am sure they will want your business!

That is not to say that you should not look at getting rid of FP! I think the program has too many glitches and it's "user friendly simplicity" is anything but!

Well, thanks.

I love Frontpage and don't want to do without it.
I know HTML but I'd prefer to use FP to do most of the work. I can't really afford the time or money to use another program, and my volunteers can't, either. I like to use FP to administer my site, too. No program is perfect.
I really like it, sorry to those of you who don't.

I don't know where to look to find a web host that specializes in FP other than looking at Microsoft's list of WPP. They are all really expensive that I could tell.

Hopefully this new one I signed up with will work well...

who did you sign up with by the way?

>>who did you sign up with by the way?>>

Futurepoint, which is at http://www.noxraq.com

I looked at your site. You have heard from me and others on this board that you should mange your site differently. Let me try again. My wife manages a couple small sites and is computer illiterate.

For one site she uses PHPNUKE (http://www.phpnuke.com) for the other she uses Post- Nuke (http://www.postnuke.org).

These are content management systems and there are others. These happen to be free and very easy to learn. Also, they are quicker and easier to maintain than frontpage. I just converted

Do a search for PHPNUKE and check out all the sites using thisGoogle (http://www.google.com).
I just converted Michigan Water Environment Association (http://www.mi-wea.org) from a 150 MB Frontpage Monster (I can't imagine a 2 GB Frontpage) to a Nuke Site an am very happy.

Originally posted by slanoue
>>who did you sign up with by the way?>>

Futurepoint, which is at http://www.noxraq.com

Hi Slanoue,

Not to make you unhappy or anything but noxraq runs their sites on Raqs. Raqs run FP 2000 extensions only. No raqs exist with FP 2002 installed as far as I know.

Shared borders is (one of the few) new features in FP 2002 and is *not* supported by FP 2000. You will get an error message when trying to publish your site.

Others have tried to post helpful information here, but you have refused to take any of their advice to this point.

There unfortunately is no way to put this tactfully. Based on this thread, you are not a customer I would want and it is very seldom I say that. You have chosen to use a software that all professionals consider inferior. You have chosen to use a software that has many known issues, among them incompatibility among versions. Then, you have chosen to make your host responsible for your problems with this software. You have also chosen to edit on the site rather than on your own machine. Again, unadvisable. I only hope you are keeping backups of some sort. If you were using Dreamweaver for instance you would be able to use the collaboration features that Frontpage lacks.

In addition you have insulted the knowledge of those who have responded to your post, saying its obvious they don't know anything about Frontpage. Well, let me say, I know a good bit about Frontpage, more than enough to know its inappropriate for what you are trying to do.

You have said it is your host's responsibility to help you, while no host I am aware of provides software support, nor even if they did, they could not solve the compatibility problems between versions of Frontpage...and whichever version they choose to support, they will have problems with users of the other.

What you are asking for comes under the realm of web authoring assistance and would be charged for by those who do provide it. So, you may continue down the current path and continue to have problems with every host you switch to...or you can listen to some of the professionals on this forum and others and take steps yourself to reduce your problems.

Again, I apologize for the tone, but in my humble opinion, you are being unreasonable.

One other question. Does your host say they support Frontpage 2002 extensions or just 2000. A lesson to be learned is do not upgrade until your host does.

Also, you keep referring to what you are paying as if you are paying a premium price...For the site you describe $85 is very much on the low end. You are not paying extra to get another level of service...but rather extra based on the resources you use.

If you were to reduce the size of the site from 2GB to something less by NOT using FP, you'll be paying a lot less than $85 and you'll be a lot happier when it comes to managing your site.

She said she has a lot of movies or movie fragments on her site. Those files won't get any smaller just by switching away from FP :)

Originally posted by slanoue
Exactly. I think too many webhosting companies cop out by saying there are problems with Frontpage, we can't fix it.
So if you can't get it to work, why offer it?
Why not become a Microsoft Web Presence Provider or at the very least, be willing to contact Microsoft for help?
It seems pretty simple to me.

If Microsoft can't help you fix the problem, THEN you can come back and tell the customer, sorry, Frontpage sucks, even Microsoft couldn't help us fix it...

I'm just trying to say what I'm experiencing. We offer Frontpage because lots of people demanded it. Back then we offered accounts with Frontpage and without Frontpage, the one with Frontpage access generated as much as 10 times support request than ones without Frontpage. I'm sure other providers has about the same experience. Somehow we were able to reduce the support request number, but that's involving crafting workaround in Apache and other program, and putting disclaimer in large letters that we won't be responsible if the customer decided to do anything unusual to Frontpage.

Yes, we had contacted Microsoft and Ready to Run software before. We even got a Microsoft person testing our Frontpage accounts before we decided to offer it. Won't that give me a right to say that Frontpage really sucks? :)

Shared Borders are fully supported in FP 2000

Shared Borders (http://www.microsoft.com/frontpage/previous/tips/fp2000.htm)

Wow, you are really rude and arrogant. I wasn't ignoring or insulting anyone. I read every word and responded to it. Just because someone gives you advice doesn't mean you have to agree with it or take it! Some people were sympathetic or agreed with me; I guess you chose to ignore those.

As someone said here, why offer Frontpage and their extensions if you can't support it? Almost every web hosting company offers it, so clearly there is demand for it and I'm not the only one using it. It may be "inferior" in your opinion, but not everyone can afford to just switch from one expensive software program to another (and in my case that would also require making 10 other people do that), not to mention the time it would take to learn a new program. Just because I happen to like the product doesn't mean I think it's perfect. But if I'm paying a company $85 a month to host my page and they say that they support Frontpage, then I expect them to do what they can to make it work.

As for software help, if you'd read the posts, including mine, you would know that this was an error on their server and had nothing to do with my editing my page. I wasn't being insulting saying they didn't know about Frontpage, either. I hate to have explain myself again, but my original post was not clear and so the first people who responded thought I was trying to ask the web host to fix a problem editing my pages; the problem was a server error (and remember I just moved my pages there a month from another web host where they had no problem whatsoever with the shared borders, so it wasn't a problem with my page, but something on their server).

You might try actually reading the posts sometime...

What company are you with? I want to make sure to avoid it the future.

As for editing live on the server, I also explained why I had to do that. The page is too big to publish, plus I have 10 other people that work on the page, so it would be impossible to publish rather than edit live. Even if we all had copies of the entire page on our hard drives, and even if publishing would work, every time one of us published the page, it would overwrite whatever changes the other people had made! You tell me how to get around that and still use Frontpage...

I know plenty of places where they have no problems with people editing large pages live on their servers with FP. I used to work at a library where they did that. They never had the shared border problem, either.

And no one yet has explained to me why these companies have any problem with contacting Microsoft for further help. Personally I think it's geek pride, they think, I'm a professional, I know what I'm doing...and then would rather blame it on someone or something else than dare ask anyone for help.

And by the way, apologizing for your tone after you've been really rude does not make up for it. Apology not accepted!

>>Others have tried to post helpful information here, but you have refused to take any
of their advice to this point.

There unfortunately is no way to put this tactfully. Based on this thread, you are not
a customer I would want and it is very seldom I say that. You have chosen to use a
software that all professionals consider inferior. You have chosen to use a software
that has many known issues, among them incompatibility among versions. Then, you
have chosen to make your host responsible for your problems with this software. You
have also chosen to edit on the site rather than on your own machine. Again,
unadvisable. I only hope you are keeping backups of some sort. If you were using
Dreamweaver for instance you would be able to use the collaboration features that
Frontpage lacks.

In addition you have insulted the knowledge of those who have responded to your
post, saying its obvious they don't know anything about Frontpage. Well, let me say,
I know a good bit about Frontpage, more than enough to know its inappropriate for
what you are trying to do.

You have said it is your host's responsibility to help you, while no host I am aware of
provides software support, nor even if they did, they could not solve the
compatibility problems between versions of Frontpage...and whichever version they
choose to support, they will have problems with users of the other.

What you are asking for comes under the realm of web authoring assistance and
would be charged for by those who do provide it. So, you may continue down the
current path and continue to have problems with every host you switch to...or you
can listen to some of the professionals on this forum and others and take steps
yourself to reduce your problems.

Again, I apologize for the tone, but in my humble opinion, you are being
unreasonable.>>:angry:

Originally posted by slanoue
Does anyone else have a really big site and problems with finding a good reliable host?

The one I'm with now (I don't want to mention their name because I don't want to make problems for them) seems to generally know what they're doing and my site has been going well.

But I wanted to take the shared border off my pages and I can't do it (it's a Frontpage thing).
So I asked them to help and they said they can't, basically.

<misunderstood problem>

For the person who has worked with Microsoft with these problems, let me say YES, *YOU* can say Frontpage sucks LOL :) I was talking about companies like the one I'm leaving, where they didn't bother to do that.

I just wanted to add one more thing and that's that my page is not 2.1 gb large. I have three sites. I don't know how large they are individually. The one that had the shared border problem is not the largest of the three. Hope that helps...

Anyway, I found a place to host with and hopefully things will work out better.

Note that I'm not leaving the previous host because they couldn't fix my problem. It was a minor problem! They were the ones that said, we'll refund your money, take your business elsewhere....just because I asked them to try to work on the problem with Microsoft! I was perfectly willing to stay. Fortunately I found a much cheaper place to host so I can move and leave beyond the poor customer service I got with the previous company.

Not trying to be insulting, I think a few of you missed the point of the original post, that this company basically dumped me as a customer just because I asked them to work with Microsoft to fix this problem. I wasn't rude about it at all. It was their attitude that was the problem. Considering I was paying a really high amount for web hosting (certainly above the norm), they must be rich if they don't need my business just over something so small.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions! Except that one really obnoxious one. :) You guys are great.

Originally posted by Fish_Saver
I looked at your site. You have heard from me and others on this board that you should mange your site differently. Let me try again. My wife manages a couple small sites and is computer illiterate.

For one site she uses PHPNUKE (http://www.phpnuke.com) for the other she uses Post- Nuke (http://www.postnuke.org).

These are content management systems and there are others. These happen to be free and very easy to learn. Also, they are quicker and easier to maintain than frontpage. I just converted

Do a search for PHPNUKE and check out all the sites using thisGoogle (http://www.google.com).
I just converted Michigan Water Environment Association (http://www.mi-wea.org) from a 150 MB Frontpage Monster (I can't imagine a 2 GB Frontpage) to a Nuke Site an am very happy.

There are major security issues with phpNUKE. Use postNUKE instead.

--Tina

>>
Not to make you unhappy or anything but noxraq runs their sites on Raqs. Raqs run
FP 2000 extensions only. No raqs exist with FP 2002 installed as far as I know.

Shared borders is (one of the few) new features in FP 2002 and is *not* supported
by FP 2000. You will get an error message when trying to publish your site.
>>

Um, well, you are wrong about Shared Borders. I've been using them for quite a while; they were in 2000 as well. Thanks anyway...

>>I looked at your site. You have heard from me and others on this board that you
should mange your site differently. Let me try again. My wife manages a couple small
sites and is computer illiterate.

For one site she uses PHPNUKE for the other she uses Post- Nuke.

These are content management systems and there are others. These happen to be
free and very easy to learn. Also, they are quicker and easier to maintain than
frontpage. I just converted >>

Thanks, I will take a look. Will it allow me to log in and edit my page live (and others, too)? Does it have all the same editing and maintenance things that FP has? Like if I move a page that I have links to, will it automatically change all the links in my page? Is it easy to make tables and frames with it? Does it use Frontpage themes or something like them?
These are the main things I use FP for...

A php content management would make your world a lot cheaper and easier. Your pages would be much smaller. Your bandwidth usage lighter. Your site would also be faster for the end user. But you'll have to rethink the whole structure of your site and the way you handle content. And yes, those programs will do everything you need, but you will need to learn some design basics yourself, which most people find easier to do without Frontpage anyhow.

Managing a site the size of yours via Frontpage will continue to pose challenges unique to Frontpage. As time goes on, you'll find the only way to meet those challenges will be to throw money at the problems.

Thanks...what did you mean by "learn some design basics"? Like HTML or designing a page? I do know that...I don't let Frontpage do that for me (not sure that it could).

I had my page up years before I started using FP...

I don't know about throwing money at the problem. The ones I just left were $85 a month and now I'll only be paying $26 per month. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

I'll be looking into that other software that someone here suggested but I don't know if I will have time to learn new software or totally redo my page with it.


>>A php content management would make your world a lot cheaper and easier. Your
pages would be much smaller. Your bandwidth usage lighter. Your site would also be
faster for the end user. But you'll have to rethink the whole structure of your site
and the way you handle content. And yes, those programs will do everything you
need, but you will need to learn some design basics yourself, which most people find
easier to do without Frontpage anyhow.

Managing a site the size of yours via Frontpage will continue to pose challenges
unique to Frontpage. As time goes on, you'll find the only way to meet those
challenges will be to throw money at the problems.>>

Thanks...what did you mean by "learn some design basics"? Like HTML or designing a page? I do know that...I don't let Frontpage do that for me (not sure that it could).

Well then you'll be fine. The most you'll have to do is design a template or two.

Learning content programs is easy. And converting the site might even go quicker if you enlist your ten content people to help with the older material.

Thanks, I already use templates for my site. I take FP themes and templates and change them to have my own graphics...

>>Well then you'll be fine. The most you'll have to do is design a template or two.

Learning content programs is easy. And converting the site might even go quicker if
you enlist your ten content people to help with the older material.>>

Originally posted by slanoue

Um, well, you are wrong about Shared Borders. I've been using them for quite a while; they were in 2000 as well. Thanks anyway...

:blush: Oops, it was Shared Border Background Properties that require the fp 2002 extensions. Not the shared borders.

Sorry for adding to the general confusion

Yes, these sites are easily maintained through a browser. Knowing HTML is a plus but not required. Knowing PHP/MYSQL is a plus but not required.

Coversion - if your FP sites are organized a script may be able to most the conversion for you. Say if a topic was in a directory or filename had an indication. Imagine that each 25K page takes up a couple K in a database. You theme is editable in one file and can be switched instantly.

Security phpnuke can be tightened - killed the file manager (which FB takes out of the current version) and change the config file. Each has it's own merits.

These sites store articles/stories (content) there are 100's of addons for them. Cost is Zero. Learning curve low.


BTW you said
>>>I am paying a lot because my page is large, over 2.1 gb